[Johny Joe Hold]

There are all these chruches across the country with "issues". The issue is that there are empty pews. The collection plates aren't very full either.

So, you have these people who think they have solutions to this problem. One is to reach out to the handicapped community and make the feel "welcome".

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion...umn10_ST_N.htm

Just to be sure, I called one of our Pastors today to see if, in light of this article, there has been any policy change at Landover Baptist. He assured me there has been no change. There will be no handicapped access accomodations.

[James Dewitt]

Originally Posted by Johny Joe Hold

There are all these chruches across the country with "issues". The issue is that there are empty pews. The collection plates aren't very full either.

So, you have these people who think they have solutions to this problem. One is to reach out to the handicapped community and make the feel "welcome".

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion...umn10_ST_N.htm

Just to be sure, I called one of our Pastors today to see if, in light of this article, there has been any policy change at Landover Baptist. He assured me there has been no change. There will be no handicapped access accomodations.

Praise Jesus, God has little if any use for cripples!
Leviticus 21:17-23



Speak unto Aaron, saying, Whosoever he be of thy seed in their generations that hath any blemish, let him not approach to offer the bread of his God.
For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous,
Or a man that is brokenfooted, or brokenhanded,
Or crookbackt, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken;
No man that hath a blemish of the seed of Aaron the priest shall come nigh to offer the offerings of the LORD made by fire: he hath a blemish; he shall not come nigh to offer the bread of his God.
He shall eat the bread of his God, both of the most holy, and of the holy.
Only he shall not go in unto the vail, nor come nigh unto the altar, because he hath a blemish; that he profane not my sanctuaries: for I the LORD do sanctify them.

[James Hutchins]

Making special provisions for the handicapped, be them blind, deaf, fat, retarded whatever only belittles the abominations and draws attention to Gods distaste. God handicapped them because they are bad. I should not have be subjected to their existence.

Every time I go to the motorcycle store and see a handicap parking space, I have to wonder, how often it gets filled.
At Church, all those mandated spaces are always empty. Why? Because all handicappers are all God hating heathens and would never show up anyways. The few that might always sit in the back and try to steal from the collection plates or hang around and get a free lunch. Those people really upset me (understatement)

[Johny Joe Hold]

You know, what really bothers me about installing handicapped accessable facilties is its selfishness.

If we installed these ramps it might cost say, $200,000. That could mean fewer Escalades for our Pastors.

Suppose one of our business executive members, a regular tither, hurts his back while golfing with a client. Lying there in traction, he phones a Pastor and asks the Pastor to come and pray with him.

The Pastor says, "I'll be there as soon as possible. But, it will be awhile. I have to take the City Bus."

The handicapped person does not have to suffer, but our important church member does. That's what is so selfish about it.

[Benedict A. Davis]

Mayor JJ,
Did you notice the problem we do have at the Entrances to Churches Here in Iowa during the winter months, The temperature at the entrances to churches. A solution for this would be positive pressure forced hot air blowers at the entrances.

I have noted that there seems to be many misinformed individuals that are willing to donate monies for renovations with handicap entry to Churches. My thought was that pictures be taken of our entrance-ways and applications made to these groups for up dating our entrances. Anyone looking at these pictures won't help but notice that we have no ramps to our doors. If we never mention the forced air heating or the lack of ramps no one should complain how we ''update'' the areas. I am sure our joo lawyers will know exactly what will be needed to keep all paperwork and applications on the up and up.
YIC

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  » Catastrophic Events
  The federal and state governments offer funding for providing accessibility after a natural disaster or man-made catastrophic event such as Hurricane Katrina or 9/11. Details on designated disaster areas can be located at: http://www.fema.gov/news/disasters.fema.
  
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  Medicare does not pay for ramps. However, Medicare has paid for the shower and lift products in certain situations. To find out more information on whether Medicare will help to cover the expense of a home modification (except ramps) ordered by a physician, call 1-800-MEDICARE (1-800-633-4227) or visit their website at www.medicare.gov.
  
  Medicaid waivers in some states, state child health insurance programs (CHIP), private health insurance, workers' compensation and long-term care insurance benefits may cover the ramps, showers and lifts. The social service department of your hospital may be able to direct you to the special discretionary funds through private charities or endowments in your area.
  
  Suggestion: Ask your attending physician to provide a prescription or document of medical necessity for a ramp, shower or lift product and submit a copy with your insurance claim.
  
  » Internal Revenue Service
  The Internal Revenue Service reports allowable medical deductions for amounts paid for special equipment installed in the home. Reasonable costs to accommodate a home to a disabled condition are considered medical care and are deductible on federal income tax returns. IRS Publication 502-Medical and Dental Expenses
  
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  » Other Tax-advantaged Alternatives
  Taxpayers needing to fund large and ongoing medical expenses will also be interested in exploring tax-advantaged ways to pay these expenses beyond deducting them under the 7.5% of adjusted-gross-income threshold.
  
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  » Cafeteria Plans
  Sec. 125 cafeteria plans are by far the most common tax-advantaged medical expense reimbursement arrangements (after actual medical insurance). Flexible spending accounts (FSAs) are funded by employee contributions on a pre-tax salary-reduction basis to provide coverage for specified expenses (e.g., qualified medical expenses or dependent care assistance costs) incurred during the coverage period. Reimbursement is subject to reasonable conditions, including a maximum salary-reduction amount that may be set by the plan's terms. Participants must use the FSA amounts for the specified expenses or forfeit any amounts remaining as of the plan year-end; see, generally, Prop Regs. Sec. 1.125-1. Actually obtaining reimbursement may be problematic; as a practical matter, participants regularly report problems in convincing plan administrators that expenses (such as special school tuition and fees) are legitimate medical expenses properly reimbursable by the plan. Also, reimbursements actually available are frequently less than the total actual medical expense, due to employee-mandated limits on FSA funding.
  
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  Another alternative may be an HRA, which is an employee benefit plan intended to reimburse employees for medical expenses not covered by other insurance. In general, HRAs are funded by the employer, without employee salary reductions, to reimburse an employee for substantiated medical care expenses incurred by the employee and his or her spouse and dependents. HRAs typically provide reimbursement up to a maximum dollar amount for a coverage period, and may provide for carry forward of any unused amount.
  
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[MitzaLizalor]

What on earth would a disabled person be doing in a Church ?

[Oakland "Reb" Griner]

I might mention RPA (Regional Planning Authority) funding. Landover Baptist attracts thousands and thousands of visitors from all over the county (and the world) to Iowa and we all know they spend considerable monies to do so. The State of Iowa, via the RPA, provides money to encourage and enhance tourism.

RPA funding would be available to non-profits with heavy impact on local tourism. A vaguely worded grant application (I would suggest recycling the one we so successfully used to renovate the cry room last year) could generate $250,000 to $800,000 easily enough. Probably would not be to hard with resources like that to just blow hot air the length of the sidewalks to the parking lot.

We might consider getting a fleet of shuttle buses to transfer guests and woshippers to the church too.

Additionally, should sufficient funding develop, a porte cochere might be a good idea too, and then we can finally get the valet parking situation working right.

[Liam the ex-drunk]

Originally Posted by MitzaLizalor

What on earth would a disabled person be doing in a Church ?

Hopefully praying for forgiveness.

That is, if God lets them in.

[Nathan B. Forrest]

Originally Posted by Johny Joe Hold

So, you have these people who think they have solutions to this problem. One is to reach out to the handicapped community and make the feel "welcome".

Shouldn't these crips be polite enough to bring their own ramps and other gimp equipment? I mean what's next? Free kiddies for all the catlicks to fiddle when they get here? Free marijuhana for all the stoner losers who happen by? Gee whizz!

[Diesel Stanford]

My church in Council Bluffs has stairs everywhere (yes, I am a pastor), no way for cripples to get up there. Masked, vaccinated and ill people are not allowed and never will be. The sign says "GET HEALED OR GET OUT". The Democratic agnostic mayor tried to sue me already ("Reverend Stanford, you are violating the hate speech laws, and we ask you to close this church if you refuse to change your laws"), but I rebuked him and told him to repent (I believe he also was left handed, but I am not sure). He then wept and shot himself. He sadly is burning in hell now. So sad, I could have invited him to Chick Fil A and preached about Jesus, but he loved darkness more than light. It really broke my heart, because he was a nice guy, but on the other hand, it may have been right, since Jesus wasn't what we consider nice.

[MitzaLizalor]

Originally Posted by Diesel Stanford

My church in Council Bluffs has stairs everywhere (yes, I am a pastor), no way for cripples to get up there. Masked, vaccinated and ill people are not allowed and never will be. The sign says "GET HEALED OR GET OUT". The Democratic agnostic mayor tried to sue me already ("Reverend Stanford, you are violating the hate speech laws, and we ask you to close this church if you refuse to change your laws"), but I rebuked him and told him to repent (I believe he also was left handed, but I am not sure). He then wept and shot himself. He sadly is burning in hell now. :thumbdown: So sad, I could have invited him to Chick Fil A and preached about Jesus, but he loved darkness more than light. It really broke my heart, because he was a nice guy, but on the other hand, it may have been right, since Jesus wasn't what we consider nice.

Certainly agnostics' deeds are evil. They claim God has no knowledge of what occurs in the world, even that we have no knowledge of Him. What was it then that came into the world as Light shining in the darkness? Certainly, darkness is agnostic; it has no light by which to comprehend anything and therefore no way of knowing what God is. Persons identifying as agnostic are admitting there's no way to distinguish love from hate, other than according to homespun paradigms subject to the whims and fancies of every passing fad. They fumble around not knowing whether they hate or love one another, have no idea where they're going, then get a surprise when they fall off a cliff! Christians discern the difference by accepting Christ's life as a beacon of understanding.

I John 2:11 But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.

That is one big impairment. Am I being ableist? No. Take the instance of a person born blind (with cataracts, say) whose affliction is overcome later in life.

Although it is nearly 300 years since Molyneux posed his celebrated query, interest in the problem of recovery of vision after early and long-standing blindness is of comparatively recent origin. In 1932, Dr. M. von Senden carefully reviewed the literature on the perception of space and shape in the congenitally blind before and after operation and arrived at some important conclusions. In particular, he stressed the slow, laborious and imperfect way in which the perception of form is acquired by these patients and their liability to emotional “crises” as they come to discover the true extent of their disability as sighted persons.

http://www.richardgregory.org/papers...-blindness.pdf †

Note the last sentence: emotional “crises” as they come to discover the true extent of their disability as sighted persons. That means the dawning comprehension, now as a sighted person, of how great their disability had been when they were blind. Education in this arena in very difficult. At each step (in learning how to interpret visual data for elements such as perspective, motion, height, size) as the next objective is attained it not only becomes evident how great a boon this is but how disadvantaged they had been without it. Restoration of sight is thus a two-stage process, the second being much more difficult than the first. Jesus knew that and that's why His message is not ableist.

Mark 8:22-25 And he [Jesus] cometh to Bethsaida; and they bring a blind man unto him, and besought him to touch him. And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought. And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking. After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly.

From time to time a catholic church will close. How would your congregation feel about getting hold of the confessional to install at the foot of the stairs as a healing kiosk? The Gospel could be presented, healing offered and upon deliverance climbing the stairs would be a joy. For those rejecting Him, well they wouldn't want to go inside anyway.

______________________________

† There are fairly thorough details provided in the pdf for anyone interested. My quotes are from the Foreword on page 2. Educational aspects are covered in section 3(3) on page 19 at the point of testing rather than preparation for the tests. Demonic occupation is not covered as a cause of blindness and obviously would not be amenable to surgery. Matthew 12:22