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Rebuke Re: The 67 deadly sins of the New Testament. - 12-18-2018, 08:54 AM

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Originally Posted by Traveling Engineer View Post
If you read the verse before the one you mentioned in Timothy, you see that Paul had just mentioned elders. Do you think possibly he is commanding public shaming of elders who are sinning?

1 Timothy 5:19-20
(19) Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses.
(20) Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

...
Darling engineer,

I do not refer lightly to any other version of the Bible except the KJV but here we unfortunately need to go to the Greek text. It is notoriously complex and the many textual variants diminish its value compared to the KJV, but sometimes (when educating the masses and you) it is necessary.

Let us look at 1 Timothy 5:20 in Greek
τοὺς (δὲ) ἁμαρτάνοντας ἐνώπιον πάντων ἔλεγχε, ἵνα καὶ οἱ λοιποὶ φόβον ἔχωσιν.

As you can see, the (δὲ) is in brackets. Why? Because no-one knows if it was there in the beginning. The WH has it, while, e.g., the Byz ς doesn't. Does it matter? It does. It is the particle that can be translated as "however". If the particle is there, it would be quite reasonable to understand 1 Timothy 5:20 as the continuation of 1 Timothy 5:19. In fact, quite a few commentaries, apparently those that you're familiar with, such as Cambridge Bible, tentatively suggest that this still deals with "elders", while, e.g., Jamieson-Fausset-Brown and Poole disagree and widen the scope to all sinners. Do you think that the (δὲ) is original and how does it influence your view about this matter?

No, let's go on.

1 Timothy 5:20, KJV
Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

What about the last part of the verse? ... ἵνα καὶ οἱ λοιποὶ φόβον ἔχωσιν. This is crystal clear. No matter if the public reproof is targeted at "elders" or the common sinner, it is still necessary to make everyone fear God (Ecclesiastes 12:13), no matter if they're teenagers or demented old timers. Fear. Jesus may have treated the sinners in various manners during His short presence on earth, but when He returns, He's promised to subject them all to all the Tribulations: poisoning the seas, burning forests, poisoning their freshwater sources, causing war and famine, releasing poisonous animals to torture them and eventually first killing off one third of them with an army of angels and thereafter personally administering the smiting of all the rest with His personal sword.

To avoid that, we need to tell the masses that unless they discard their abominable ways, that is going to be their fate.
Quote:
And can you tell me about any evangelism and outreach you do (like on the street)? Do people respond well to your message?
The response is what Jesus told us to expect.

Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Of course, lying about God loving everyone etc. would obviously attract more people, but in the long run lying will only lead them into Hell, which leads us to your final question...
Quote:
One more question, if I may. Do you mind explaining why you have 2 Kings 18:25 in your signature box?
You may. Many people, including lots of false Christians and priests claim that they have the Word of God and preach to their congregation lies about the Bible. They boast that they know God's Will but disregard the totality of the Bible. In the end, this is only malice and blasphemy. Their fate will not be the nicest one.


Yours in Christ,

Elmer


2 Kings 18:25 - Am I now come up without the LORD against this place to destroy it? The LORD said to me, Go up against this land, and destroy it.



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