[Nobar King]

I guess I don't know the answer to this question. Is it even possible to answer? I always was taught that Jesus opened the gate to heaven and that the holy souls ascended there with him when he rose from the dead.

There must be someone here wiser than me who can clarify this question.

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Nobar, the easy part is the obvious answer, but the hard part is explaining why the Patriarchs, etc, never beat the winning candidate:

Lu:23:39: And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
Lu:23:40: But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
Lu:23:41: And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
Lu:23:42: And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
Lu:23:43: And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
Lu:23:44: And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour.
Lu:23:45: And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst.
Lu:23:46: And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

So we see that the malefactor on the cross was the first man in heaven.

Some might say that Enoch was taken by God to heaven; Elijah was taken there by a whirlwind and a chariot and Moses appeared at Christ's transfiguration so he must have been there. But the Bible says they are not in heaven.

Joh:3:12: If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
Joh:3:13: And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

So up to the crucifixion, no man had ever been to heaven!

On with the hard bit:-

Ge:5:24: And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.
Notice this verse does not say Enoch went to heaven. It says he was not found, for God took him. But this verse does not say where God took him!

As for Elijah, this is the most difficult to understand: we are told,
2Ki:2:11: And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

Now we have already seen John:3:13 and that can’t be wrong. But let us look at the the meanings of "heaven."

Heaven may be the atmosphere. Ge:27:28: Therefore God give thee of the dew of heaven, and the fatness of the earth, and plenty of corn and wine:

The next meaning of heaven is the universe. Ge:1:15: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. Ge:1:16: And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.Ge:1:17: And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

The THIRD heaven is where the throne of God exists.

Now we are ready for the explanation!

Elijah, having ascended into the AIR by a whirlwind and was carried away out of sight - beyond the horizon. (Must have been some sight!)

Moses never went to heaven either – he just died:
De:34:5: So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD.
De:34:6: And he buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, over against Beth-peor: but no man knoweth of his sepulchre unto this day.
De:34:7: And Moses was an hundred and twenty years old when he died: his eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated.

But, I hear you say, “Did not both ELIJAH and MOSES appear with Christ on the mount of transfiguration?” Well, yes and no – a vision of them appeared, they did not. M't:17:1: And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
M't:17:2: And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
M't:17:3: And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.
[…]
M't:17:9: And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

OK?

[Nobar King]

Wow, that's pretty confusing. Was there anyone up there with God b4 Jesus rose from His tomb? Like the Angels? Or was it opened on the day of His crucifixion?

[Nobar King]

Here are some heaven statistics for you from the World Values Survey:

We're pretty high up there, which is good, considering I thought we had more than 13% atheists in the U.S.A.

[Mistress Cookie]

Did Adam and Eve go to Heaven? I know they transgressed and were evicted from the garden....but I think they lived 900 years or something? So didn't they have time to be redeemed? Eve, at least, must have been Saved™ in childbirth?

I hope they went to Heaven, because I've always wanted to give Eve a talking to (she saddled us with the whole "unclean time" business) and I'm really counting on meeting up with her.

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Originally Posted by Nobar King

Here are some heaven statistics for you from the World Values Survey:

We're pretty high up there, which is good, considering I thought we had more than 13% atheists in the U.S.A.

That chart is deceptive, Brother. For example, I can guarantee you that the Jap version of "Heaven" isn't anything like what the Holy Bible teaches us. They think they're all going to some rice paddy in the sky, where their fat chink "god" Booda runs the show.

I don't believe there's ever been a slope admitted to Heaven. I'd be mighty surprised.

[eliot mayfield]

I figured it was Abel???

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Originally Posted by Nobar King

Who was the first person in Heaven?

Ah, God and Jesus were always there, even before the Creation. Jesus Himself actually tells us this: Joh:17:5: And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glorywhich I had with thee before the world was.

Because Satan was sent from Heaven, at one time Satan must have been there forever also, as were all the angels, arch-angels, cherubim and seraphim. However, none of these are persons:

Lu:20:35: But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
Lu:20:36: Neither can they die any more: forthey are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

I’ve had enough of this question now.

Originally Posted by Mistress Cookie

Did Adam and Eve go to Heaven? [...]

No.

As far as South Africa beating the US is concerned, I should imagine that 80% of those who answered were heathen jigaboos, and they don't count because their god is a tree or a rock or something.

[Mistress Cookie]

Originally Posted by Ezekiel Bathfire

"Did Adam and Eve go to Heaven?" / No.

But wouldn't they be our great-great-great-great-great-great grandparents or something? It seems sad we won't be able to see them there, and hear stories about what it was like in the Garden with talking animals, etc.

Maybe we can start a petition in Heaven...or maybe even right now!

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Originally Posted by Mistress Cookie

But wouldn't they be our great-great-great-great-great-great grandparents or something? It seems sad we won't be able to see them there, and hear stories about what it was like in the Garden with talking animals, etc.

I recall my great-grandfather, which is enough. He smelled vaguely of cabbages and constantly told the same story of being cheated in 1908 by Jeremiah Cochran – if I hear the story of that horse deal once, I heard it a hundred times – it never changed. I’d be grateful not to have a crowd of relatives around me thank you. God thinks of these things.

Maybe we can start a petition in Heaven...or maybe even right now!

I’m always dubious about asking God to change His Plan. You can have a go if you want – “Ask and it shall be given, etc.”, but I’ve found that the answer is more often than not, “No.”
I must say that I do not find it discouraging, as I am basically opposed to change.

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Originally Posted by Mistress Cookie

Maybe we can start a petition in Heaven...or maybe even right now!

I've heard it said that "You cannot petition the Lord with Prayer," but I don't believe it. The Bible does speak to this.

Isaiah 1:15 And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood. 1:16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil; 1:17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.

So as we see, God does not hear the Prayers of the Unsaved, Praise Jesus. But since you are just a woman, I'd be careful about getting too uppity. I don't have to remind you again about what the Good Book says about that, do I?

[Meek and Humble]

Originally Posted by Mistress Cookie

Did Adam and Eve go to Heaven? I know they transgressed and were evicted from the garden....but I think they lived 900 years or something? So didn't they have time to be redeemed? Eve, at least, must have been Saved™ in childbirth?

I hope they went to Heaven, because I've always wanted to give Eve a talking to (she saddled us with the whole "unclean time" business) and I'm really counting on meeting up with her.

They did not go to heaven when they died. Jesus said during His time on Earth that nobody had ever gone to Heaven. People are only saved through Christ's sacrifice. But fear not, for Jesus died and descended into Hell, and exactly three days and nights later (He died on Friday afternoon and rose on Sunday morning) He returned, and opened the gates of Hell, allowing all the righteous souls who had been down in the eternal torment go up into heaven. Whether Adam and Eve were in this number is unknown, of course.

[JennyD]

Originally Posted by Nobar King

Here are some heaven statistics for you from the World Values Survey:

We're pretty high up there, which is good, considering I thought we had more than 13% atheists in the U.S.A.

Nowhere near, Brother!

In fact, less than 1%!

Yet atheists all over the country are claiming that since about 15% claim "no religious affiliation", that makes them all atheists.

Silly atheists, with their wishful thinking and wild imaginations!

[aguaw1]

Adam The First Adam is and will be the Second Adam. Forgiven by God. People Forget God is All Forgiving and he only Created One Adam and said he was Good. If not then God would be lying and I truly believe he meant he only Created One Good Adam. A All Divine All Man. The First and Last Punishment of God. The Beginning as Adam the Middle as Jesus and the Last Adam. Your Father. Forgiveness what truly is it?

[Meek and Humble]

I think you would be better off a hippie commune than trying to engage in a serious theological discussion. Start making some sense or go away.

[TC Patriot]

The only way to get to heaven is to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior so it would follow that anyone born before Jesus showed up on earth and died for their sins are in hell now. Right?