[polarbear]

hello all:
i want to ask some basic questions about what you believe. as in any civilized discussion, personal attacks or insults would greatly dilute its importance, so please try to stay on topic- many threads on this forum often end in back and forth bickering or insults.

i read over your thread on what you believe and i see that you often challenge people to quote references in scripture for what they say.

please then, give scriptural references for these following beliefs (my questions are underlined):





We believe that gays are the #1 threat to civilization (you may consider being gay a sin, but where does it say they are the #1 threat to civilization?)

We believe George is a deity (what happened to no other gods, no other idols?)

We are fighting a war with science, and so are our friends in the White House (why would God create the capacity for science then?)

We believe that 9/11 was God's punishment for New York's sinfulness, and that Jews and feminists are evil (does the message of the book of Job not contradict this sort of thinking?)

agree wholeheartedly with Republican strategist Randall Terry: "I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good (where does the bible ever say hate is good?)
We believe that deceiving the American voters is a good thing (where does the bible ever say lying is good?)

We believe that the Crusades were a wonderful time in history and we support conversion by the sword (where does the bible ever say depriving people of free will is good?)

We want to turn the constitution into the toilet paper it deserves to be, and the millions of readers of the Washington Times agree (where does the bible ever say depriving people of their inalienable rights good?)

We believe that women shouldn't vote, and the people of Kansas agree:

"I'm an old-fashioned woman. Men should take care of women, and if men were taking care of women (today) we wouldn't have to vote."-- State Sen. Kay O'Connor, Kansas Republican, September 28, 2001, Kansas City Star (she was ELECTED BY WOMEN IN PART, don't you find this a bit ironic? where does the bible define roles of sexes so clearly as you have?)


thank you for your time and attention.

[Brother Enoch]

Originally Posted by katsuro

thank you for your time and attention.

I'll give you some time and attention, when you take the time and attention to produce a lucid post that is not ridden with grammatic, spelling and factual errors. I'm assuming here that you aren't stupid. You are therefore lazy, and sloppy.

Repost that abomination of a post correctly, with proper grammar, spelling and functioning links to what you're talking about. If you can't take yourself or your assertions seriously, why should we?

[Pastor Ezekiel]

If you cannot adhere to the standard rules of grammar, spelling and punctuation inherent in God's favorite language (American!), then we will have to ask you to leave.

That includes the reasonable use of the "Shift" key that God so thoughtfully provided your computer. God DOES care about grammar, you see.

"one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law" - Matthew 5:18

Please make a thread of your own in the "Introductions" section of the forum, so that we can properly greet you. Tell us about yourself, your church, and how you came to find Jesus.

And if you're here to flame us, better take a look at THIS before making an even bigger ass out of yourself.

[Jeb Stuart Thurmond]

Katsuro, like a typical liberal you're so obsessed with the clever little details that you missed the point entirely: THE POINT OF THE THREAD IS THAT WE HAVE MAINSTREAM AMERICAN BELIEFS, SO IF YOU DISAGREE WITH US YOU DISAGREE WITH AMERICA. Scripture has nothing to do with it. The Bible doesn't say apple pie is great, but if you hate apple pie you're still anti-American.

Originally Posted by katsuro

We believe that gays are the #1 threat to civilization (you may consider being gay a sin, but where does it say they are the #1 threat to civilization?)

There are 100 million other republicans you can ask this question to. What it comes down to is that anyone who spits in the face of God is a threat, and since the only liberal activists to make any progress in the last 30 years are the gays - (quick, name a major advance for liberalism in the past 30 years. That doesn't involve gays. And they wonder why everyone calls the Democrat party the Gay Party? Because they don't do anything else!)

We believe George is a deity (what happened to no other gods, no other idols?)

Okay genius, who do YOU think is the Second Coming of Christ? It's obviously not that slut-spawner, Sarah Palin. And Obviously the second coming of Christ is alive now, because Jesus promised he would be back within our generation:

Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled - Matthew 24:34

We are fighting a war with science, and so are our friends in the White House (why would God create the capacity for science then?)

Why would God create the capacity for raping babies to death? Do you support raping babies to death?

We believe that 9/11 was God's punishment for New York's sinfulness, and that Jews and feminists are evil (does the message of the book of Job not contradict this sort of thinking?)

No. Does not the story of Sodom and Gomorrorah, and the endless chapters of nothing but threats contradict what you're saying? The Bible does not contradict itself.

agree wholeheartedly with Republican strategist Randall Terry: "I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good (where does the bible ever say hate is good?)

Romans 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Deuteronomy 16:22
Neither shalt thou set thee up any image; which the LORD thy God hateth.

Amos 5:21: I hate, I despise your feast days, and I will not smell in your solemn assemblies

Isaiah 1:14: Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth

YOUR IGNORANCE IS NOT OUR PROBLEM!

Anyway, if you have issues with Republican strategist Randall Terry, maybe you should ask Republican strategist Randall Terry.

We believe that deceiving the American voters is a good thing (where does the bible ever say lying is good?)

1 Kings 22:21-22: And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the Lord, and said, I will persuade him .. I will go forth and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him and prevail also; go forth and do so

YOUR IGNORANCE IS NOT OUR PROBLEM!

We believe that the Crusades were a wonderful time in history and we support conversion by the sword (where does the bible ever say depriving people of free will is good?)

Ever read the Book of Joshua? Anyway, if you saw someone raping a baby to death, would you decide to deprive them of their free will? Seeing as you're a liberal, I assume not.

We want to turn the constitution into the toilet paper it deserves to be, and the millions of readers of the Washington Times agree (where does the bible ever say depriving people of their inalienable rights good?)

Ever read the TEN COMMANDMENTS? In particular, the FIRST ONE?

We believe that women shouldn't vote, and the people of Kansas agree:

"I'm an old-fashioned woman. Men should take care of women, and if men were taking care of women (today) we wouldn't have to vote."-- State Sen. Kay O'Connor, Kansas Republican, September 28, 2001, Kansas City Star (she was ELECTED BY WOMEN IN PART, don't you find this a bit ironic?

Ask the women who voted for her.

where does the bible define roles of sexes so clearly as you have?

The Bible states that women are property:

Deuteronomy 22:28-29
If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.

You must be semi-illiterate, to expect us to act as your Bible-babysitter. How dare YOU make accusations and demand that we be for Bible Go-for. THE BURDEN OF PROOF IS ON *YOU* to give us the chapter and verse that says that ANYONE should be allowed to Vote.

thank you for your time and attention.

YOUR IGNORANCE IS NOT OUR PROBLEM!

[SUV]

Kats - Do YOU Believe in delivering those chinky-stinky flaming poo-poo platters to White Ladies free of charge?

Still waiting,

Still Hoping to have some extra-kicky ingredients for this years' Biblically-Correct dungbread,

SUV

[polarbear]

I apologize for my spelling and grammar, since it concerns all of you so very much.

Ignoring all of the racial slurs and personal attacks, as I predicted there would be, I would like to address some of your "arguments".

"...liberal you're so obsessed with the clever little details" Clever little details? You mean the things you can't answer?

"There are 100 million other republicans you can ask this question to." You are claiming to represent the 100 million other republicans? So that includes all of the other church denominations, the many Catholic people who belong to the Republian party, etc. ?

"Okay genius, who do YOU think is the Second Coming of Christ?" It says in the Bible that no one knows. "But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not even the Angels of heaven, by my Father only."- Matthew 24:36

"Why would God create the capacity for raping babies to death? Do you support raping babies to death?" I don't think the whole realm of science is defined by abortion. For example, what about the medical sciences that have saved billions of peoples lives, probably including some of the people in this very church?

"No. Does not the story of Sodom and Gomorrorah, and the endless chapters of nothing but threats contradict what you're saying? The Bible does not contradict itself." Then you tell me, what does the book of Job mean?

All of the verses you quoted with God hating things- that's GOD talking about Himself! That doesn't in any way give YOU the right to hate...he has a righteous hatred, a just hatred...we as humans are incapable of copying that.

"Ever read the Book of Joshua? Anyway, if you saw someone raping a baby to death, would you decide to deprive them of their free will? Seeing as you're a liberal, I assume not."
Well obviously, God does allow these sorts of tragedies to happen, so that means there IS free will whether we see it or not. I never said there wouldn't be CONSEQUENCES for a man who does those sort of things, he just obviously has the ability to make that decision.

"Ever read the TEN COMMANDMENTS? In particular, the FIRST ONE?"
I don't think the first commandment can be applied to the Constitution.

"If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days."

How does this prove she is property?

[SUV]

Well I guess I won't sit around waiting after that reply. What sort of porno-ography was this, to post upon our Godly board?

And so close to Christmastime, too. Shouldn't you be out Shopping somewhere?

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Originally Posted by katsuro

[...]
"If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days."

How does this prove she is property?

Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife.

OK, let's say you have a fender-bender and it's your fault. You have damaged someone else's goods. You therefore give him 50 shekels of silver. Why would you do that? Because you damaged his property.

Moving on; and she shall be his wife; What is implied here? It is implied that the woman has no choice in the matter and the father does not want her because she's not a virgin and therefore she's worthless. Therefore the father gives her away.

It's like the fender-bender totaled the car; you may be charged for towing away the wreck. If the owner doesn't want the wreck, it's yours.

I think that proves she's property. If you look how slaves and cattle are dealt with, it's the same.

You have a problem with that? Take it up with God.

[SUV]

It's no use, Brother Bath. His kind will never comprehend the ways of JESUS

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Horses to water, Sister SUV...

[polarbear]

Originally Posted by Ezekiel Bathfire

Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife.

OK, let's say you have a fender-bender and it's your fault. You have damaged someone else's goods. You therefore give him 50 shekels of silver. Why would you do that? Because you damaged his property.

Moving on; and she shall be his wife; What is implied here? It is implied that the woman has no choice in the matter and the father does not want her because she's not a virgin and therefore she's worthless. Therefore the father gives her away.

It's like the fender-bender totaled the car; you may be charged for towing away the wreck. If the owner doesn't want the wreck, it's yours.

I think that proves she's property. If you look how slaves and cattle are dealt with, it's the same.

You have a problem with that? Take it up with God.

Then Mary Magdalene was useless? She was probably not the "right hand of Jesus" as the Da Vinci code claims, but she was definitely not useless- why else would Mark 15:47 and Matthew 27:61 give her name as a witness to Jesus' actual burial?

Or...then the book of Ruth was useless? What is the point of the book of Ruth if Ruth is the main character? Sure, she had to go under the wing of Boaz, but she essentially saved her family's name from being erased from history, AND she was mentioned in the Lord's genealogy!

Or Deborah, who acted as a judge for Israel for 40 years (Judges 4) ?

Or the description of the "wife of noble character" in Proverbs 31?

Also, those old testament ritual ways are an old an broken system, to be replaced upon the coming of Jesus. This is an overarching theme of the bible; why do most evangelical churches no longer offer sacrificial burnings? Because that practice was a symbol of the holy atonement that Jesus could provide as a "sacrificial lamb". In the same way, the treatment of women in ancient times is outdated, and thus that specific example probably is a metaphor for anyone who is "damaged goods", NOT just women.
And by outdated I don't mean to insult or demean God's word, in fact Revelation 21:4 & 5 agrees with what I'm saying.

Oh, and the fact that whenever you reply, you have a constantly degrading tone does NOT help your case at all. Why don't you try upping the maturity level and address the issues instead of insulting people?