[Alvin]

Originally Posted by wahran

As has been explained by many atheists already on these forums, I do not believe in your God, therefore I do not believe in your Hell, or your Satan.

Yes, we know what you Atheists claim - and what you will burn in Hell for. But let me ask you a simple question: If there is no God that in his infinite wisdom and compassion has deemed it fit to grant you FREE WILL, where does your cherished "free will" come from? If your consciousness were indeed only a para-phenomenon of neurons firing in your brain - a purely physical process as you Atheists apparently believe - then your conscious decisions would surely be the result, not the cause of a physical process.

Your decisions would be pre-determined by chemical and physical processes and any concept of personal responsibility or any "choice" to believe or not believe, quite impossible. You would be like a person watching their own life in a movie theatre, only with the mistaken belief that you are actually in charge of it. Here is one scientist who basically found that there is no room for "free will" in the physical interpretation of consciousness: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Libet

You Atheists can't just steal the concept of free will from our LORD's Bible because it makes you feel better than being the soulless automaton which your own beliefs say you are...

Again, you have made incorrect assumptions that everyone is thinking along the same lines as you. Well I'm not, I do not believe in your fairy tales that you dress up as fact. I believe the cold, hard evidence that has been laid before me, anything that cannot be backed up with falsifiable, scientific evidence (not scripture) is not going to be accepted by me.

Oh dear - someone let this one watch the discovery channel for a day and now we have a "scientist" on our hands... If you cared to use your liberated mind to think about this for just 10 seconds, you would find that your "cold, hard evidence" is actually just your very own version of scripture - because 99.999% of what you "believe" in science has never been placed "in front of you" in the form of "cold, hard evidence", merely warm, soft paper of so-called "scholarly journals". And how are those journals quality-checked? By Peer-Review. You, Sir, have an infinitely recursive bootstrap problem trying to assure the truth of those scientific scriptures - many of which contradict each other. We have GOD who in His infinite wisdom vouches for the truth of HIS word.

Let's examine what cold, hard evidence have you actually SEEN with your OWN EYES (rather than read about... watched in a video...) that makes you believe that:
1. the Earth is a sphere(ok, an ellyptoid if you want to be picky), rather than flat? Have you been in space and watched it rotate? No? -> no "cold, hard evidence" in front of you, just hearsay.
2.the Milky Way is a Galaxy seen sideways rather than the beautiful strip across the heavens we see? Have you been outside the Galaxy? No? -> hearsay of conjecture.
3. consciousness is merely a para-phenomenon of a working brain? Have you seen "consciousness"? -> pure speculation.

So why would you believe all of those things uncritically based on second-hand information, but not believe the first-hand word of the LORD that has been handed down to us? Especially when only the latter can save you from eternal damnation?

I would also respectfully ask you to take your Atheist preaching elsewhere to a more appropriate section of God's own Forums, because it is in no way helpful to Lycia in her sincere quest for a True Christian man to whom she may submit her life. You have even stated that you fornicate with the Devil in your bedroom, so surely you are not an appropriate suitor

You see, Lycia is 22 and still unmarried, and therefore sorely lacks the strong guiding hand of a True Christian man. In order that she may be saved from this misery, she has even fought back her God-given fears of speaking up as a woman.

Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. (1 Timothy 2:12)

It's so typical of you as an Atheists to just barge in here and impose your preaching on her and trample so recklessly on the exposed, vulnerable feelings of a True Christian Woman. Hers is a desperate plea for help and we should all respond with love and compassion inspired by JESUS and by offering her a helping hand. Or two. And maybe some tools.

I pray for you to see the light,

Alvin

PS: The Atheist "Logo" you proudly display while cowardly not showing us your face is of course typical of the lack of creativity we see in many Atheist endeavors. I can just see the massive brainpower, all the razor-sharp thinking, unencumbered by superstitious thought that went into it:

1. Atheist blinded by his own brilliance sits in front of the computer, bored
2. Select font Inkburrow.
3. Set font color to generic red
4. Eureka! Finally a worthy logo - smart, humorous, insightful, breathtakingly meaningful, cross-cultural, self-referential - that all Atheists throughout the ages from Epicurus via Russel to Hitchens would proudly subscribe to...



Sigh.

[wahran]

Originally Posted by Alvin

Yes, we know what you Atheists claim - and what you will burn in Hell for. But let me ask you a simple question: If there is no God that in his infinite wisdom and compassion has deemed it fit to grant you FREE WILL, where does your cherished "free will" come from? If your consciousness were indeed only a para-phenomenon of neurons firing in your brain - a purely physical process as you Atheists apparently believe - then your conscious decisions would surely be the result, not the cause of a physical process.

Actually, I only agree to the idea of free will because it shuts you up easier. I believe in determinism.

Originally Posted by Alvin

Your decisions would be pre-determined by chemical and physical processes and any concept of personal responsibility or any "choice" to believe or not believe, quite impossible. You would be like a person watching their own life in a movie theatre, only with the mistaken belief that you are actually in charge of it. Here is one scientist who basically found that there is no room for "free will" in the physical interpretation of consciousness: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Libet

BINGO, determinism at its best.

Originally Posted by Alvin

You Atheists can't just steal the concept of free will from our LORD's Bible because it makes you feel better than being the soulless automaton which your own beliefs say you are...

Soulless, awesome.

Originally Posted by Alvin

Oh dear - someone let this one watch the discovery channel for a day and now we have a "scientist" on our hands... If you cared to use your liberated mind to think about this for just 10 seconds, you would find that your "cold, hard evidence" is actually just your very own version of scripture - because 99.999% of what you "believe" in science has never been placed "in front of you" in the form of "cold, hard evidence", merely warm, soft paper of so-called "scholarly journals". And how are those journals quality-checked? By Peer-Review. You, Sir, have an infinitely recursive bootstrap problem trying to assure the truth of those scientific scriptures - many of which contradict each other. We have GOD who in His infinite wisdom vouches for the truth of HIS word.

Never been placed in front of me? Excuse me sir, I don't know who you think you are, but I'm far more qualified that you'll ever be to be talking about scientific evidence. I won't go into the details as that would be inappropriate, but yes, it has been placed in front of me, not all of what you think is important is actually important in the grand scheme of things.

Originally Posted by Alvin

Let's examine what cold, hard evidence have you actually SEEN with your OWN EYES (rather than read about... watched in a video...) that makes you believe that:
1. the Earth is a sphere(ok, an ellyptoid if you want to be picky), rather than flat? Have you been in space and watched it rotate? No? -> no "cold, hard evidence" in front of you, just hearsay.
2.the Milky Way is a Galaxy seen sideways rather than the beautiful strip across the heavens we see? Have you been outside the Galaxy? No? -> hearsay of conjecture.
3. consciousness is merely a para-phenomenon of a working brain? Have you seen "consciousness"? -> pure speculation.

And you're making assumptions again, is that all you people do? Seriously.

Originally Posted by Alvin

So why would you believe all of those things uncritically based on second-hand information, but not believe the first-hand word of the LORD that has been handed down to us? Especially when only the latter can save you from eternal damnation?

As has been explained, try reading, I do not believe in your hell. End of.

Originally Posted by Alvin

I would also respectfully ask you to take your Atheist preaching elsewhere to a more appropriate section of God's own Forums, because it is in no way helpful to Lycia in her sincere quest for a True Christian man to whom she may submit her life. You have even stated that you fornicate with the Devil in your bedroom, so surely you are not an appropriate suitor

Ahh, that's where you're wrong, I've stated that I fornicate with my boyfriend in the bedroom. I used a simile (for reference, this is different to the metaphor used in that disgusting thread I spoke of previously). And no, in this circle, I wouldn't be an appropriate suitor, since I'm female, and you guys are all homophobic, might cause a few problems.

Originally Posted by Alvin

You see, Lycia is 22 and still unmarried, and therefore sorely lacks the strong guiding hand of a True Christian man. In order that she may be saved from this misery, she has even fought back her God-given fears of speaking up as a woman.

Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. (1 Timothy 2:12)

She used to be a prostitute, enough said. At least I, though unmarried, am in a loving relationship and that is the one and only place I feel is appropriate to have sex.

Originally Posted by Alvin

PS: The Atheist "Logo" you proudly display while cowardly not showing us your face is of course typical of the lack of creativity we see in many Atheist endeavors. I can just see the massive brainpower, all the razor-sharp thinking, unencumbered by superstitious thought that went into it:

1. Atheist blinded by his own brilliance sits in front of the computer, bored
2. Select font Inkburrow.
3. Set font color to generic red
4. Eureka! Finally a worthy logo - smart, humorous, insightful, breathtakingly meaningful, cross-cultural, self-referential - that all Atheists throughout the ages from Epicurus via Russel to Hitchens would proudly subscribe to...



Sigh.

It's simplicity is meaningful to me, creativity is unimportant to me. And I think you'll find that most atheists are more humble than you here "true christians"

[Butch Dickerson]

Originally Posted by Lycia The Repentant

Why thank you Butch.
You look like a strong man. If we were to have a wedding do you think you could fight off a crazed pasta-addled pirate who would be violently objecting to the union because of his delusional beliefs?

Lycia,
You must be giving off a strong womanly pheromonal scent!
Here we are, getting ready to discuss how much we have in common: or just starting to discuss the terms of my recent ex parte restraining order ... and low and behold we have a limp noodled sheep shagger and an atheist lesbian jumping into the sack with us.
I have no strong objections to a menage a quatre ,and I admit that noodles in bondage may be quite challenging (in a tingly feel good way). What concerns me is that mouthy lesbo wahran. I think she is attempting to bring her own devices into this courtship, and I feel there may be too many "tools in the bedroom" if she doesn't bring her own batteries.
I am not going to invite my roommate Bruce as this would be too much of a workout and I don't have enough pharmaceuticals for that.

Besides bitching about what she will and won't do, wahran clearly has a thing for noodle-boy and wants to do a dress-up for him. I therefore suggest we discuss this in seperate motel rooms.
What you think?

[Johannes Kirkeholm]

Originally Posted by wahran

Actually, I only agree to the idea of free will because it shuts you up easier. I believe in determinism.

Okay... I usually don't do this but I am gonna go down to your low level of logical reasoning and talk some (God forgive me) science. I used to be a stupid atheist (are there any other kind?) so I know about science and how dumb it is. I do this to try and save wahran's soul from eternal damnation so please bear with the stupid things I am about to say.

You are an atheist so I guess you believe in quantum mechanics? If so you can't also be a determinist because those idiots claim that everything is predestined. Quantum mechanics states that somethings are just plain random. If you don't believe in quantum mechanics then you don't believe in physics.

I have now demonstrated that not even are you so dumb that you don't believe in God but you don't even follow your satanic science false religion because you fail to understand even these infinitely stupid and simple theories.

Now I am gonna go even further down in levels of logical reasoning. If you believe that everything we feel and so on is just the firing of neurons how do you explain subjective experience? How can electrical signals give rise to subjective experiences such as anger?

No scientist can explain this so I bet that you can't either. They fail to realize that God created us in His Image and this is why we have subjective experiences and aren't just organic robots as you claim.

Repent or burn.

I am sorry for derailing your thread Lycia but someone needs to silence this mormonic wahran. If you happen to be unmarried still when I get enough money to move to USA I would like to meet and discuss your views on how a True Christian woman best submits herself to her husband.

[wahran]

Originally Posted by Johannes Kirkeholm

Okay... I usually don't do this but I am gonna go down to your low level of logical reasoning and talk some (God forgive me) science. I used to be a stupid atheist (are there any other kind?) so I know about science and how dumb it is. I do this to try and save wahran's soul from eternal damnation so please bear with the stupid things I am about to say.

You are an atheist so I guess you believe in quantum mechanics? If so you can't also be a determinist because those idiots claim that everything is predestined. Quantum mechanics states that somethings are just plain random. I you don't believe in quantum mechanics then you don't believe in physics.

I have now demonstrated that not even are you so dumb that you don't believe in God but you don't even follow your satanic science false religion because you fail to understand even these infinitely stupid and simple theories.

Now I am gonna go even further down in levels of logical reasoning. If you believe that everything we feel and so on is just the firing of neurons how do you explain subjective experience? How can electrical signals give rise to subjective experiences such as anger?

No scientist can explain this so I bet that you can't either. They fail to realize that God created us in His Image and this is why we have subjective experiences and aren't just organic robots as you claim.

Repent or burn.

However, determinism allows for chance. It states that chance is also pre-determined, it may appear to be random, but certain conditions arise in which random events are able to occur. Learn your theories.

You should also be aware that not every single person's brain is wired in the exact same way. If it were, we would be clones, and there would be no subjective experience. However, since an electrical impulse in my brain may behave in a slightly different way to yours, we think differently, feel differently, experience differently. Just like we look different, act different and talk different.

If God created us in His image, as you claim, how do I exist? I'm not perfect in your eyes, would God have been so careless as to create people who were not perfect, like him? I think not. Explain that one. And no, scripture does NOT count as evidence, since we're talking science.

[Johannes Kirkeholm]

Originally Posted by wahran

However, determinism allows for chance. It states that chance is also pre-determined, it may appear to be random, but certain conditions arise in which random events are able to occur. Learn your theories.

Oh boy... Guess I will have to remain in this low level of logical reasoning for a bit longer...

You satanists think that there must be sound evidence for something before you will believe in it. There is absolutely no reason to believe that quantum mechanic events are predestined and there is no evidence to support that. There is plenty of reason to believe in God, however, and plenty of evidence. Just take a look in the Creation Science subforum.

You should also be aware that not every single person's brain is wired in the exact same way. If it were, we would be clones, and there would be no subjective experience. However, since an electrical impulse in my brain may behave in a slightly different way to yours, we think differently, feel differently, experience differently. Just like we look different, act different and talk different.

This is just plain wrong according to your own satanic religion called secular science. Type in 'the hard problem' in any search engine such as google.

If God created us in His image, as you claim, how do I exist? I'm not perfect in your eyes, would God have been so careless as to create people who were not perfect, like him? I think not. Explain that one. And no, scripture does NOT count as evidence, since we're talking science

Prove to me that you exist.

[wahran]

Go look in your closet.

[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Originally Posted by Butch Dickerson

Lycia,
You must be giving off a strong womanly pheromonal scent!
Here we are, getting ready to discuss how much we have in common: or just starting to discuss the terms of my recent ex parte restraining order ... and low and behold we have a limp noodled sheep shagger and an atheist lesbian jumping into the sack with us.

I therefore suggest we discuss this in seperate motel rooms.
What you think?

Butch, I suggest that you two should have a chaperone. This way, there is no danger of someone barging in during your discussion and interrupting.

Since I am presently in Freehold, staying in Phebe Carlyle's guest house, I would be more than happy to offer my services. If you prefer, you two may even visit here at the house; the guest house is quite spacious, with its own small (four-person) hot tub outside. I also have plenty of Helen's pie available for anyone who might be hungry.

[Alvin]

Dear Miss Lycia,

now that Brother Johannes Kirkeholm has valiantly sacrificed himself to keeping the Atheist wahran occupied, I would like to come to a more important matter.

I have thought much about your precarious situation: being without a True Christian man to guide your path and at age 22 dangerously close to becoming a spinster – and the Bible tell us what is the proper procedure in this case:

Genesis 19:31-33,36
And the firstborn said unto the younger, Our father is old, and there is not a man in the earth to come in unto us after the manner of all the earth: Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father. And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose. (...) Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father.

With the Atheist and Pastaist scum here more interested in preaching the word of Lucifer, rather than getting their act together and bringing light into your life, I fear for you, Sister.

I am a bit reluctant to admit that I have recently started praying for you to find a True Christian man soon – and I briefly thought that Brother Butch might be the answer to my prayers. But last night, while thus contemplating your stated desire for divine submission with the purest of thoughts (Genesis 6:4), I was startled by a booming voice which spake unto me thusly “Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye. ” (Matthew 7:5)

After my initial shock, the Voice became a bit more conversational (sounding not unlike Alan Rickman) and explained that it was often necessary to starte those those who had not yet become True Christians in every sense to get their attention. The Voice then asked me how I was planning to create new Child Soldiers for Christ if I did not have a True Christian Wife, and gently smote the back of my head.

I thank the LORD for this divine intervention, as it gave me the strength of faith to man up and speak to you today, here, publicly before the eyes of True Christians and Unsaved Trash alike on the Intertubes.

You did say the other day that your baking was improving? If that is true, then the last obstacle to you being a fine – if a bit mature - True Christian Wife should crumble just like the Atheist wahran's “logic” in the presence of Brother Johannes channeling the Metatron.

I would welcome the opportunity to help keep you on the righteous path to JESUS our LORD with a firm hand and a strong, unwavering conviction derived from GOD's omnipotence and HIS personal plan for us.

I think I can safely assume that a True Christian man with healthy seed, a firm hand, a KJV1611 bible and a personal mission from GOD to keep you on the right path, is all you would ever want from mortal life anyway? As you have already been SAVED from the hedonistic illusions about choosing someone out of "love", I would now move straight to proposing, as all these heathen "getting to know you" rituals - which even someone as devout as Brother Butch seems not entirely liberated from - can certainly wait until after wedlock.

But there is this tiny issue left: You apparently live in GOD's own United States, whereas I am from Old Europe. If I recall Rumsfeld's statements correctly, residents of Old Europe risk their just incarceration without trial due to their betrayal in the last great Crusade of 2003, so my attempt to pick you up as my bride in Christ might result in my being permanently locked up with all kinds of religious fanatics who have obviously lost use of their mental faculties in Guantanamo Bay.
Of course I could never ask you, as a woman, to travel half-way around... across God's great, square Earth by yourself.

Revelations 7:1
And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

By yourself, exposed to all sorts of ungodly temptations and your gender's demonstrated weakness of the flesh, you would surely go astray and that would pierce my devout heart. The traditional way would be to have your father accompany you over here (which would also allow us to negotiate the dowry like real men should) – but if I recall right, your father is liberal scum just like my own, so I could never trust him with your chastity.

If only there were a way to resolve this conundrum, I am sure I could keep you under c... on the right path to JESUS once we physically met. I know it must be a terrible burden to ask this of your beautiful, simple female mind – but do you have an idea how we get out of this predicament, into the future that JESUS intended for us?

YIC,

Alvin

[Lycia The Repentant]

First of all, you miserable little hussy, I don't find your "logic" attractive and have no interest in you whatsoever. Why do you feel the need to try to impress me like this?

Originally Posted by wahran

However, determinism allows for chance. It states that chance is also pre-determined, it may appear to be random, but certain conditions arise in which random events are able to occur. Learn your theories.

That only takes into account events on the quantum scale, which, I am sure even you will notice, does not apply to us. If you are a determinist then you believe you are an organic robot and there is no escaping that.

You should also be aware that not every single person's brain is wired in the exact same way. If it were, we would be clones, and there would be no subjective experience. However, since an electrical impulse in my brain may behave in a slightly different way to yours, we think differently, feel differently, experience differently. Just like we look different, act different and talk different.

Could you please point out the areas in the brain that determines how people act? Its ok, I can wait.

If God created us in His image, as you claim, how do I exist? I'm not perfect in your eyes, would God have been so careless as to create people who were not perfect, like him? I think not. Explain that one. And no, scripture does NOT count as evidence, since we're talking science.

You're asking a question about God and you think scripture doesn't count as evidence? That would be like me asking somebody about physics and saying "And please don't use any books on physics as evidence hurr".

And yes, please, lets talk about "science". What can you tell me about vulcanism, phlogiston, phrenology, the steady state theory, or the open polar sea?

Originally Posted by wahran

Go look in your closet.

Ah, the "witty" one-liner. It's a great way to try to deflect attention off of how you lost a debate, isn't it?

[Didymus Much]

Originally Posted by wahran

...I'm far more qualified that you'll ever be to be talking about scientific evidence...

Originally Posted by wahran

...I think you'll find that most atheists are more humble than you here "true christians"

I've been wracking my brain trying to reconcile your two statements above, and came to the conclusion that you don't know what "humble" means. Either that, or, adding this one to the mix:

Originally Posted by wahran

...I believe in determinism...

You're not atheist. Laplace's Demon is your god.

[wahran]

Since I am no authority on physics, I would rather not attempt to answer those questions. My chosen field of expertise is psychology, and it is because of this that I am here.

I'm interested in the nature/nurture debate on religion, and interested in whether it is your genes or your environment that "decides" whether or not you're religious or not.

And I don't think calling me a hussy, when I'm clearly not, is going to help, is it? At least when I say things they're the truth.

And tell me, what makes you think that all scientists know everything to do with every type of science?

I shall now do what you all want me to do, because I am able to do the right thing, and I shall leave you alone here.

I wish you luck in finding a husband.

[Jo Freddie]

Originally Posted by Lycra The Repellent

Why thank you Butch.

You look like a strong man. If we were to have a wedding do you think you could fight off a crazed pasta-addled pirate who would be violently objecting to the union because of his delusional beliefs?

Oh he is welcome to you Lycra, and such a union would have the benefit of saving two other people from a life of misery.

[Jo Freddie]

Originally Posted by wahran

Jo Freddie, you're my inspiration. You're freakin' awesome.

Keep up the good work.

Why thank you, but as I have said before, I am just this guy..

[Sam Diamond]

Originally Posted by Jo Freddie

Why thank you, but as I have said before, I am just this guy..

A God Mocking pasta worshiping freak. yea your that guy. Jo Freddie when are you going to accept Jesus?

[Jo Freddie]

Originally Posted by Sam Diamond

A God Mocking

I never mock God, I always praise God, Blessed be His Noodly Appendages.

pasta worshiping freak.

Just to be clear, I do not worship food, I worship God, who chooses to represent Himself as Pasta.

yea your that guy. Jo Freddie when are you going to accept Jesus?

Mmmm sometime after you accept Harry Potter as your savior.

[Lycia The Repentant]

Jo Freddie you are just this guy who will spend an eternity burning in Hell unless you repent!

Also I seem to have TWO suitors now.

Sorry I haven't "scared them away" for you and encouraged your false hope of marrying me penne-plunderer.

[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Good evening, Sister Lycia!

Would you and Butch like to come by the house and meet in a proper, supervised, True Christian™ setting?

Be sure to bring appropriate bathing attire! Sister Phebe might even join us all in the hot tub. She could use a little relaxation.

[Lycia The Repentant]

Originally Posted by Rev. M. Rodimer

Good evening, Sister Lycia!

Would you and Butch like to come by the house and meet in a proper, supervised, True Christian™ setting?

Be sure to bring appropriate bathing attire! Sister Phebe might even join us all in the hot tub. She could use a little relaxation.

Well I would love to, Rev. Rodimer, but I don't know how I would get to Freehold.

I am also a little worried my swimsuit isn't modest enough. Do you think its alright Reverend?



Frankly, I'm a little worried I'd be showing off a little bit too much leg.

[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Originally Posted by Lycia The Repentant

Well I would love to, Rev. Rodimer, but I don't know how I would get to Freehold.

I am also a little worried my swimsuit isn't modest enough. Do you think its alright Reverend?


Frankly, I'm a little worried I'd be showing off a little bit too much leg.

I'm sure it'd be fine in the hot tub, Sister! Nobody can see that far down in the bubbles.

Well, I suppose I could meet up with Butch and chaperone a Skype date for you two instead . . .