[Basilissa]

Originally Posted by LadyMarshmallow

I am not going to respond to things that are not about what I came to discuss, which is your slander of the Gothic community.

Translation: "I'll ignore everything that I cannot respond to by providing actual evidence."

Boring drivel devoid of any actual evidence deleted...

Most Goths are in same sex relationships and marriages.

...More boring drivel devoid of any actual evidence deleted.

Eww!

Thank you for admitting that your race is an abomination in the eyes of the Lord!

Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it [is] abomination.

[handmaiden]

Originally Posted by LadyMarshmallow

Goths are fans of Goth Rock. People who enjoy listening to Bauhaus, Siouxsie and the Banshees, and Angels of Liberty. People who like Goth music. Nothing more. Nothing less.

That is all there is to it, literally? You just happen to enjoy some tunes by a couple of different bands?


Then why, pray tell,do you make such a big, whiny fuss about it? My niece enjoys Itsy Bitsy Spider, but she doesn't declare to the world that she is a spider.


She hasn't cobbled together an entire so-called subculture requiring special clothes and all sorts of made up words to designate some picayune difference between one group of people listening to music that sounds suspiciously like the music preferred by some other group of people wearing nearly identical clothes.


How desperate are you to fashion some sense of identity? Do you feel so alienated from the mainstream world because you know that you have nothing to offer it? Is that why you let a band become the locus of your personality?


Perhaps I should gather a few like-minded individuals into forming a sub-culture based on the music of John Philip Sousa. We could define ourselves by his songs and wear clothes appropriate to his tunes. We could call ourselves Sousas and we would look very, very silly.


Very.


Sousically Yours,


Handmaiden

[LadyMarshmallow]

Originally Posted by Nobar King

You are obviously a godless Goth, no wonder everyone hates you.

Who are you speaking to? It would help if you quoted them. Only atheists and Scientologists are godless. And most Goths have a large group of friends. Are you suggesting the 40+ people dancing in each Goth club all hate each other? It seems a rather silly idea to go out and dance with people you don't like. Or hang out at festivals like Wave Gotik Treffen, Castle Party and Whitby Gothic weekend with people you don't like. Or go to Victorian gothic picnics with people you don't know.

"Quote:
Boring drivel devoid of any actual evidence deleted...

Most Goths are in same sex relationships and marriages.

...More boring drivel devoid of any actual evidence deleted.
Eww!

Thank you for admitting that your race is an abomination in the eyes of the Lord!"

Testimony from an actual goth is evidence. Can you provide evidence that Goths commit school shootings, cut themselves, are all homosexual, are all Satanists, etc.,?

"Music Blame for the shootings was directed on a number of metal or 'dark music' bands such as KMFDM and Rammstein.[104] The majority of that blame was directed at Marilyn Manson and his eponymous band."

None of those bands are Goth; therefore, the Columbine Shooters were not Goths.

And that's not what I said and whoever edited my post knows it. I said most Goths are not in same sex relationships. Maybe if you actually tried reading the rest of my post, you'd realize that part was obviously edited by someone here. Considering I said homosexual and bisexual relationships within the Goth scene are FAR FROM the majority and gave examples of famous Goths, myself and people I know who are in heterosexual male/female relationships.

[I Man Rastafari]

Originally Posted by LadyMarshmallow

Most Goths are in same sex relationships and marriages... My best friend recently got married to her boyfriend in a beautiful LaVeyan Satanist ceremony.

This is bound to whip these white people into a frenzy. Baptists hate this kind of talk.

[LadyMarshmallow]

Originally Posted by handmaiden

That is all there is to it, literally? You just happen to enjoy some tunes by a couple of different bands?


Then why, pray tell,do you make such a big, whiny fuss about it? My niece enjoys Itsy Bitsy Spider, but she doesn't declare to the world that she is a spider.


She hasn't cobbled together an entire so-called subculture requiring special clothes and all sorts of made up words to designate some picayune difference between one group of people listening to music that sounds suspiciously like the music preferred by some other group of people wearing nearly identical clothes.


How desperate are you to fashion some sense of identity? Do you feel so alienated from the mainstream world because you know that you have nothing to offer it? Is that why you let a band become the locus of your personality?


Perhaps I should gather a few like-minded individuals into forming a sub-culture based on the music of John Philip Sousa. We could define ourselves by his songs and wear clothes appropriate to his tunes. We could call ourselves Sousas and we would look very, very silly.


Very.


Sousically Yours,


Handmaiden

No one makes a big fuss about being Goth, except edgy kids who aren't Goth. If you're asking why I am making a big fuss about the comments on here and the list of warning signs, I've already explained that. It is perpetuating a false image of the Goth scene, which causes Goths to be attacked for things they have no association with and have not done.

And what other type of music do bands like Bauhaus sound similar to ? Because they do not sound similar to Marilyn Manson who is Shock Rock, or to Industrial, Rave music, Heavy Metal, etc., Nor do Goths necessarily dress much like other people. Traditional Goth and Deathrock have a very specific image that is hard to obtain for someone who is not a fan of Goth & Deathrock music and is only really similar to Punk and possibly early Rivethead/Industrial fans. Modern Industrial fans dress very very differently. Though there are some people who dress in a Romantic Goth or Victorian Goth style without listening to the music, but that is because those styles have major influences from outside the bands. And there is no manner of dress that makes someone Goth either. Dressing like the bands is not a requirement to being a fan of the music.

No one is "desperate to form an identity" except for edgy fake goths. Goth is just a word we use to describe a part of our likes, a label that helps us find bands that play a certain style of music similar to other bands we like and find clubs that play this style of music. It is not an entire identity and no one is focusing their identity on a band. Goths have other interest outside Goth, Gothic music is just the one thing all Goths have in common and what makes us Goth. It's no different than using the term metalhead to refer to fans of heavy metal. It is referring to one thing they like not everything.

[LadyMarshmallow]

Originally Posted by I Man Rastafari

This is bound to whip these white people into a frenzy. Baptists hate this kind of talk.

It was really quite interesting to be part of a ritual for a different religion. I'm not big on naked lady altars though, but if it bothers someone they can just watch the male and female couple getting married instead of looking at the altar. If I were attracted to females, I'd much prefer the bride anyway. She is one of most beautiful women I've ever met. Her husband is a very lucky man. Thankfully, I don't believe in a god that will frown at me attending my best friend's wedding and we each respect that we do not share the same religion.

[Mary Etheldreda]

Originally Posted by LadyMarshmallow

If you're asking why I am making a big fuss about the comments on here and the list of warning signs, I've already explained that. It is perpetuating a false image of the Goth scene, which causes Goths to be attacked for things they have no association with and have not done.

Your confusion comes from the fact that goths do not have the spirit of truth (John 14:17). They are spiritually as blind men, feeling after the truth, but not able to see it. Upsetting the society and offending the Lord thy God is their way, and there are consequences for these choices.

The LORD tells us He rebukes people for the sake of teaching them the errors of their ways (Deuteronomy 8:5). This is for their own good (Hebrews 12:25; Matthew 10:28). He does this because it delights Him to be glorified (Psalm 147:11), and people who mock and ridicule Him are failing to adequately glorify Him. Walking around like Victorian Jugalos is taunting the LORD, daring Him to smite you. You have no one but yourselves to blame for incurring His wrath, and no one but yourselves to blame if you are too stubborn or stupid to change your ways.

[Brother Gonzalez]

Hi, Marshmallow, welcome to this forum. Let me introduce you to my friend, the “No True Scotsman” Just an example:

Most of the things in this thread have little or nothing to do with Goth, or at least not just Goth. I will freely admit to being Goth and am proud of it. Goth was a genre of music started in the late 1970s as an offshoot of Punk music with bands like Bauhaus and Siouxsie and the Banshees. The Goth subculture is basically a music scene built around supporting and showing a love for this genre of music; Goths are fans of Goth rock. It is not a religion and has nothing to do with religion.

Other Goths seem to disagree with you. Kind of what happens when you say “Communism is THIS” Some random folk will come and tell you “Communism is not THIS, is THAT”. So you tell them “But Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and Fidel Castro did THIS, and not THAT”. Guess what, they tell you “But they are not REAL communists” This fallacy has a name, “No True Scotsman” Look it up.
Of course, there are a lot more troubles with your first post! Even for a REAL Goth like you

Silver is used worn for protection, especially against vampires. Kind of goes against your later comments that Goths are obsessed with vampires, drink blood,avoid daylight because they want to be vampires.

But but, you are obsessed with vampires. And you drink blood, you told that. And you are a REAL Goth.

Other than that I mostly only drink mead and cider, and that is for special occasions or socially. Without alcohol I would be an extremely antisocial person in clubs or at concerts where I don't know anyone because I suffer from anxiety, especially social anxiety. It helps a lot of people with social anxiety loosen up and this list has made it very clear that you disapprove of being antisocial. So which is it? Should we be social or antisocial?

What about being social without alcohol? With God’s help, you can.

But to address the main point here..

Some Christians even get tattoos because they believe the bible only referred to tattoos as a sin WHEN they are done to represent the dead or for ritualistic purposes because getting a tattoo for those reasons was (is) something Pagans do.

Unlike for being a New Age Goth, there are rules to be a Christian that you have to follow. The importance of this rules comes for several reasons. The most important, God made them, and God decides who goes to heaven. But there are more reasons, and one is to avoid the application of the “No True Scotsman” fallacy. Do you want to see if somebody is Christian or not? See if he follows the Bible, all of it. Getting tattooed is not being a Christian.

Nothing Marilyn Manson does or says matters. His music is not Goth and he does not represent the Goth community or goth people because he is not Goth.

No True Scotsman. It appears so much in your rant.

And then…

have read the bible at least once though, even if they do not believe in it.It's a decent book of fairy tales and mythological stories.

“Fairy tales” is VERY offensive. And it is being said bya 34 year old woman, with a child, that calls herself a “Pagan Witch” and goes to Satanist weddings. Wow, just wow.

And you list a lot of diseases that you and your friends have. Have you thought of praying so those diseases will go? Instead of locking up yourselves during the day.
Just for fun, one more point...

Bad behaviour often just means your child is trying to get yourattention because you are not spending enough time with them.

Yes, that’s whay we have the rod for.

I am a vampire and I am a Pagan.

Oh, really? But that has nothing to do with being Goth,doesn’t it?

[AsksDumbQuestions]

Originally Posted by Brother Temperance

1-Frequently wears black clothing.
2-Wears band and/or rock t-shirts.
3-Wears excessive black eye makeup, lipstick or nailpolish.
4-Wears any odd, silver jewelry or symbols. Some of these include:
reversed crosses, pentagrams, pentacles, ankhs or various other
Satanic worshipping symbols.
5-Shows an interest in piercings or tattoos.
6-Listens to gothic or any other anti-social genres of music.
(Marilyn Manson claims to be the anti-Christ, and publicly speaks against
the Lord. Please discard any such albums IMMEDIATELY.)
7-Associates with other people that dress, act or speak
eccentrically.
8-Shows a declining interest in wholesome activities, such as: the
Bible, prayer, church or sports.
9-Shows an increasing interest in death, vampires, magic, the occult,
witchcraft or anything else that involves Satan.
10-Takes drugs.
11-Drinks alcohol.
12-Is suicidal and/or depressed.
13-Cuts, burns or partakes in any other method of self-mutilation.
(This is a Satanic ritual that uses pain to detract from the light of God
and His love. Please seek immediate attention for this at your local
mental health center.)
14-Complains of boredom.
15-Sleeps too excessively or too little.
16-Is excessively awake during the night.
17-Dislikes sunlight or any other form of light. (This pertains to
vampires promoting the idea that His light is of no use.)
18-Demands an unusual amount of privacy.
19-Spends large amounts of time alone.
20-Requests time alone and quietness. (This is so that your child
may speak to evil sprits through meditation.)
21-Insists on spending time with friends while unaccompanied by an
adult.
22-Disregards authority figures; teachers, priests, nuns and elders
are but a few examples of this.
23-Misbehaves at school.
24-Misbehaves at home.
25-Eats goth-related foods. Count Dracula cereal is an example of
this.
26-Drinks blood or expresses an interest in drinking blood. (Vampires
believe this is how to attain Satan. This act is very dangerous and
should be stopped immediately.)
27-Watches cable television or any other corrupted media sources.
(Ask your local church for proper programs that your child may watch.)
28-Plays videos games that contains violence or are of a role-playing
nature.
29-Uses the internet excessively and frequently makes time for the
computer.
30-Makes Satanic symbols and/or violently shakes head to music.
31-Dances to music in a provocative or sexual manner.
32-Expresses an interest in sex.
33-Masturbates.
34-Is homosexual and/or bisexual.
35-Pursues dangerous cult religions. Such include: Satanism,
Scientology, Philosophy, Paganism, Wicca, Hinduism and Buddhism.
36-Wears pins, stickers or anything else that contains these various
phrases: "I'm so gothic, I'm dead", "woe is me", "I'm a goth".
37-Claims to be a goth.
health center.

Pretty much goths who are born goths are, lost? They like black things, dark things, witchcraft and sorceries, not believing on God, lacks out of hormones that makes them happy... cursed.

Pretty much they're born like that because their ancestors might be a physic, witch-wizard sorcery warlock demon who loves cursing people which is obvious. And at least there harmless but so annoying and weird, Wish their life should be filled with colors but NOOOO they like the color black and white like they wish their eyes are colored black and white.

I just think they're funny because they wear sad clothes, does weird ear piercings also on their nose and belly button and they watch too much twilights.

But I'm not a Goth myself, I'm just a regular person who loves ignoring things that are bad for my habit (because their unavoidable) and wrong things so I started watching youtube and does gaming because everything on TV is BORING and REPLAYS but the internet is way more better like FB.

[MitzaLizalor]

Goth was a genre of music started in the late 1970s as an offshoot of Punk music with bands like Bauhaus and Siouxsie and the Banshee

But hardly original. Ubiquitously tonal, with even less synthetic chords or whole tone progressions than could be found in Bach or Mozart even though they called them something else. You might as well say that serialism was a genre of music started in the early 20th century as an offshoot of Russian modernism. Indeed I could wing an argument for that right now. But that's a triviality compared to what's really going on. In order to listen to, say, Rimsky-Korsakov I don't need to dress up in imperial costume and cower in a spider hole waiting to be hung. I could do that if I wanted to, or I could wear drastic plastic and melt because those PVC zentai suits get pretty hot. Would anyone care? Not really. But the goth cannot do this. Only a very specific form of attire is acceptable, one incidentally that post-dates the music they decided to listen to because you can't listen to something no-one's written yet. And it's a dead giveaway. The upside down crucifix. Satanic. Any crucifix. Satanic. Lying in a coffin with blood lipstick and autopsy eyeliner applied in all the wrong places. Godly? No. Godless!

Friends, I would encourage you to confront any family member early on with their fashion choices. Even the least black nail polish or, in the case of daughters, a stainless steel wart through the nose needs to be challenged.

• This is not what God has commanded and He knows what is behind the desire to shock.
.• Demons.
..• They will attempt to pass this off as "a musical genre" but parents reading this thread will by now see the reality behind that lie.

Especially from ridiculous comments by the goths themselves. This has nothing to do with God. Make sure your family knows that.


NOTHING IS WORSE THAN HELL

[Mr. Goth]

We may like mental and dress in black, but the number one thing is that we don’t like religion shoved down our throats

[Mr. Goth]

So we are born same as you we just grow up liking different things sorry

[James Hutchins]

Originally Posted by Mr. Goth

We may like mental and dress in black, but the number one thing is that we don’t like religion shoved down our throats

Sorry friend, I cannot go along with this. I do not like mental people, they do not have their minds right. Perhaps if you got rid of the eyeliner and got right with Jesus, your life would not be a living Hell. You know, once you die, it will only go down hill from there.
So why not try dropping to your knees and take in some Jesus. The Bible is not hard to swallow. It gets easier the more you do it.

[MitzaLizalor]

Originally Posted by Mr. Goth

So we are born same as you we just grow up liking different things sorry

Everyone is born the same way, sure, full of sin and deserving eternal suffering. The Bible describes wailing, torment, tooth gnashing, smoke and worms which never die. Sometimes a person will just burst into worms because they dissed God, which is exactly what happened to Herod.

Goths are like that. It's all "look at me" but slice it where you like sin is all you'll ever get. Everyone grows up liking the same thing in other words everyone grows up (other than Christians) liking sin.

Not everyone draws attention to themselves in the same way. Some will poke bolts through their cheeks or noses, others go for that jewellery which screws up the face like you're about vomit. T-shirts announcing dopey goth bands playing about one song between them and grunting are worn by what look like psychiatric escapees is another way: getting on a bus or train "Look At Me!!" is the message in every case. Until they get where they're going and everyone there is "expressing their individuality" by doing exactly the same things and all looking exactly the same.

Different? Not so much.

Only Christians are different. Everyone else is the same, rejecting God and headed for perdition. Only Christians accept Jesus.

Titus 2:11-14 The grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

[Bible-Chump]

Originally Posted by Daisy Mae Johnson

Take a gander at these unGODLY demon possessed children. They are on a fast train to be sodomized by Satan for all of eternity.

They think they like to self inflict pain...but they have no idea how pianful the real HELL is going to be!

GOD hate's forlorn, melodramatic Gothtards.




(If I looked like this I would want to kiill myself too)


If they were MY children, I would stone them to Death. As JESUS commands us to do.


Distressed, Sister Thumper

YOU ARE SAYING YOU WOULD MURDER YOUR CHILDREN FOR A LIFESTYLE CHOICE?! JESUS WOULD NOT WANT THAT! WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?!

[Mary Etheldreda]

Originally Posted by Bible-Chump

YOU ARE SAYING YOU WOULD MURDER YOUR CHILDREN FOR A LIFESTYLE CHOICE?! JESUS WOULD NOT WANT THAT! WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?!

Under who's authority do you declare Jesus did not mean what He said?

[MitzaLizalor]

It's so disappointing when people just make up stuff for themselves – well, that's not disappointing in itself I suppose after all people compose music they like to accompany poetry which in combination give us our hymns; no, the disappointment is when they attribute a value system to God which utterly contradicts everything He's tried to teach us.

If the values we dreamed up for ourselves were valid, why would God need to teach us anything at all? It is precisely because of our incapacity in this respect that we have The Bible. God's message is very clear, concerning both what we should do and what happens if we do something different. There have been other criteria for living cooked up with no input from God by people who don't claim to be following The Bible which is at least consistent. They are not Christians. They say, for instance, that you will come back as a scaby or a monkey or a termite.

. .

There is no evidence for any of this but more particularly, since no-one ever comes back as something better than human, the whole process is retrograde by its own standards (all available species are "worse" than human) as well as the standards of evolutionism (humans do not turn into monkeys) and of God.

Hebrews 9:27-28 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: so Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

The Bible explains why Christ needed to be offered in the first place. What did God require that only Christ could deliver? When the standard set out by God is rejected—remember, the only place where that standard appears is in The Bible—what basis does anyone have for claiming that Salvation even exists?

Anyone not willing to trust and obey the Word of God is only pretending to be a Christian. First, obviously, you'd need to know what it said. Next you'd need to trust that Jesus was not lying and remember, without The Bible there is no evidence for any of His teachings. Thirdly, you'd need to obey what He told us to do. It's not something we could ever have thought up for ourselves but the first step is the most important. Read The Bible. Then decide.

[Bible-Chump]

My daughter doesn't really dress gothic, however some of her artwork does involve some girls dressed in the sorta gothic style. Does this count as her being a goth? And is there a way to talk to her about this harmless lifestyle choice WITHOUT hurting her? Cough -biblethumpingblonde- cough

[Elmer G. White]

Originally Posted by Bible-Chump

My daughter doesn't really dress gothic, however some of her artwork does involve some girls dressed in the sorta gothic style. Does this count as her being a goth?

Yes. In fact, thinking about godless Gothicisms is as bad as the actual deed.

Matthew 5:28
But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

In addition, if she has engaged in any form of these vile acts, she has done them all.

James 2:10
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

And is there a way to talk to her about this harmless lifestyle choice WITHOUT hurting her? Cough -biblethumpingblonde- cough

I surmise that you should learn Gothic, her mother tongue or at least the language that she has apparently chosen as her vernacular. In fact, I've been often looking for some advice regarding the Gothic Bible by Wulfila. As your offspring endorses the Gothic culture, you might ask her if the Bible (the Gothic Bible) that she follows would condone her acts based on, e.g., the following verse of Wulfila's translation:
unte jabai ni huljai sik qino, skabaidau; iþ jabai agl ist qinon du kapillon aiþþau skaban, gahuljai ....

It was a pleasure to help you out.


Yours in Christ,

Elmer

[MitzaLizalor]

Originally Posted by Bible-Chump

this harmless lifestyle choice

Did you miss the bit about scabies?