[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Originally Posted by Haley15

I got Hell. I might as well go kill myself. I feel so worthless. I wish I was dead. I knew I wouldn't make it. Why was I even born. I wish I would have died at birth like I was suppost too.

Haley, I assume you got Hell because you hate God and ignore His Truth.

Well, you have a choice to make.

You can become a Christian! You can give up living for today; eternity is a lot longer! You can take a pass on caring about the physical world, because it doesn't matter; God will soon return and destroy it anyway! You can dress modestly, pray constantly, and spend your spare time studying the Bible!

OR

You can become a Secular Hedonist and give up on God. You can pretend that He who made the universe in 6 days (plus one of rest, in which He technically invented the Sabbath, the final product of Creation, thus 7 days) isn't real. You can claim that Balaam's ass didn't talk, that there isn't a Garden of Eden here on Earth guarded by cherubims with flaming swords, and that God didn't impregnate a young woman with Himself so He could come to Earth and temporarily sacrifice Himself to Himself to forgive your as-yet uncommitted sins while simultaneously condemning the Jews and all non-believers to eternal torture in a lake of fire for their sins. You can spend your life helping others because you WANT to (not because God commands it), and being a "good person" because it's the "right thing to do" (instead of because God will punish you if you don't).

So, which will it be? Will you live a Godly life, with morals from God etched upon your heart? Or will you save the material world, and worship at the altar of "science", and make decisions based on your "conscience"?

[Don Bozo el Guapo]

How come no answers like "None of the Above","You Got to be Kidding Me","Who Gives a Rusty" or "Duh?" Most of this congregation never made it past the 5th grade (even after 4 or 5 tries) So try to keep it simpull.

[BelieverInGod]

Got 100 LORD PLEASE COME TAKE ME HOME!

As for the person who is "filthy scum", you do realize that with a little Bible study and a lifestyle change that you can become Heaven bound as well?

Guess it's just easier to insult us.

[Miss April]

Originally Posted by BelieverInGod

Got 100 LORD PLEASE COME TAKE ME HOME!

Amen to that Sister. I got %100 aswell I can't wait to be with Lord Jesus forever

[2 Timothy 3:16]

Originally Posted by Rev. Jim Osborne

....
Results

If you scored 0 - 99 .... YOU ARE GOING TO HELL! God sees no difference between a filthy atheist who has committed great sins throughout his life and a false "Christian" who has followed most of God's law, but not all.

If you score below 100, then that means you are not following all of God's Word and are therefore hellbound.

If you scored 100 ... YOU ARE GOING TO HEAVEN! Congratulations! You will join us all at Landover Baptist Church sitting at the right hand of Jesus for eternity! GLORY!

Do I understand properly that Rev. Jim Osborne is teaching that there is no way for me or anyone else to get into heaven without scoring 100 on this quiz and believing that everything on it is true?

[James Dewitt]

Originally Posted by 2 Timothy 3:16

Do I understand properly that Rev. Jim Osborne is teaching that there is no way for me or anyone else to get into heaven without scoring 100 on this quiz and believing that everything on it is true?

You get a cookie YEA. I bet when you where a little boy, you where so bright that your dad called you son.

[Rachael Van Helsing]

I know the biblical answers but seeing as I neither agree with them nor believe in god heaven or hell, I guess I'm going to............ Cleveland?

[James Dewitt]

Originally Posted by Rachael Van Helsing

I know the biblical answers but seeing as I neither agree with them nor believe in god heaven or hell, I guess I'm going to............ Cleveland?

I was in Cleveland last month, it is Hell.

[Robert Jones]

Originally Posted by 2 Timothy 3:16

Do I understand properly that Rev. Jim Osborne is teaching that there is no way for me or anyone else to get into heaven without scoring 100 on this quiz and believing that everything on it is true?

It all makes perfect sense to me. And yes, I did score a 100 on the quiz. I don't see the issue here if you're a True Christian™.

[2 Timothy 3:16]

Originally Posted by James Dewitt

You get a cookie YEA. I bet when you where a little boy, you where so bright that your dad called you son.

Yes, he did. But even better, today, my Heavenly Father calls me son!

Hey Jim, I'm pretty sure that I posted two questions in two different posts. Is it possible that one was removed? If so, I won't repost it, but if not, I could have imagined the whole thing!

[2 Timothy 3:16]

Originally Posted by Robert Jones

It all makes perfect sense to me. And yes, I did score a 100 on the quiz. I don't see the issue here if you're a True Christian™.

Good job!

I'm not trying to make an issue, just seeking clarification.

[James Dewitt]

Originally Posted by 2 Timothy 3:16

Y
Hey Jim, I'm pretty sure that I posted two questions in two different posts. Is it possible that one was removed? If so, I won't repost it, but if not, I could have imagined the whole thing!

What was removed when? Your mind is playing tricks on you.

[2 Timothy 3:16]

Originally Posted by James Dewitt

What was removed when? Your mind is playing tricks on you.

I was afraid of that.... Here's what I meant to post in addition to the earlier post in this thread:

Originally Posted by Rev. Jim Osborne

Results

If you scored 0 - 99 .... YOU ARE GOING TO HELL! God sees no difference between a filthy atheist who has committed great sins throughout his life and a false "Christian" who has followed most of God's law, but not all. If you score below 100, then that means you are not following all of God's Word and are therefore hellbound.

If you scored 100 ... YOU ARE GOING TO HEAVEN! Congratulations!

You will join us all at Landover Baptist Church sitting at the right hand of Jesus for eternity!

GLORY!

Does Rev. Jim Osborne teach that all the members of Landover Baptist Church will sit at the right hand of Jesus? If so, will all other believers be there as well? And what does he teach that it means to sit at His right hand?

[Jimmy C Lombardo]

More kids would succeed in life if quizs were this easy to understand. Take note Mr. Obama!

[Dirk]

100!
But some questions were hard and I doubted. Thank God I thought back on what I learned on this forum and the KJV 1611 Bible.

[Rev. Jim Osborne]

For clarification for our more dim readers: Yes, you need to score 100 in order to get to Heaven. The reason being is that this test is completely based on the Bible and what God commands of us. Remember the quote I put earlier:

Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

Not everyone is going to Heaven. In fact, the vast majority of people (pretty much everyone outside of Landover Baptist) will be sent to Hell while a select few (us) will enjoy the Kingdom of God.

And why do we have to score 100? Why can't we get in at 99? Well, for one thing the Bible tells us we must follow all of it, not just bits and pieces! It's an all or none deal for God. There are no room for slippery slopes. If you could get in at 99, why couldn't you get in at 98? If you can get in at 98, why not 97? You can see where that leads. That is why God makes it abundantly clear that you need to follow all of the Bible.

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Matthew 4:4 Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

[2 Timothy 3:16]

Wow. Rev. Jim Osborne, I MUST say that it is a pleasure to meet you (albeit online on a message board). You are the very first honest-to-goodness, unashamed, world-class Health and Wealth preacher that I have ever had the privilege of meeting. I’ve always wanted the opportunity, but have never had one until now. I have SO MANY questions, but will do my best to constrain myself to the issue at hand: Salvation.

Originally Posted by Rev. Jim Osborne

For clarification for our more dim readers: Yes, you need to score 100 in order to get to Heaven. The reason being is that this test is completely based on the Bible and what God commands of us. Remember the quote I put earlier:

I must confess that I am one of your more “dim readers.” I hope you’ll show longsuffering and patience toward me as I do have some questions. After all, it is written in 2 Peter 3:9, “The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”

Originally Posted by Rev. Jim Osborne

Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

Originally Posted by Rev. Jim Osborne

Not everyone is going to Heaven. In fact, the vast majority of people (pretty much everyone outside of Landover Baptist) will be sent to Hell while a select few (us) will enjoy the Kingdom of God.

I agree with you 100% on EVERYTHING outside of the parenthesis. Verse 14 says, “Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.” Much later on the same subject, but in a different context, Jesus even says, “For many are called, but few are chosen.” (Matt 22:14). Praise Him that He even chose those few! Amen?

Originally Posted by Rev. Jim Osborne

And why do we have to score 100? Why can't we get in at 99? Well, for one thing the Bible tells us we must follow all of it, not just bits and pieces! It's an all or none deal for God. There are no room for slippery slopes. If you could get in at 99, why couldn't you get in at 98? If you can get in at 98, why not 97? You can see where that leads. That is why God makes it abundantly clear that you need to follow all of the Bible.

Originally Posted by Rev. Jim Osborne

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Originally Posted by Rev. Jim Osborne

Matthew 4:4 Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Yes sir, I do see where that slope leads. It is a never-ending slide into finding out just how moral that I have to be to get into Heaven or put another way, how immoral I can be and still get in. Can you imagine if God had told us that to spend eternal life with Him, all we had to do was score 51? Some of us would sure find a way to get the most “bang for our buck” out of that 49 that we could get away with! I know I sure would! James 2:10 is a wonderful verse to bring in to highlight the depravity of man and as you well know, there are lots of others that would apply too.

But RJO (can I call you that?), I do believe that you have missed what the KJV teaches about salvation in Jesus Christ. It teaches that salvation is by grace through faith, not works - Ephesians 2:8-9. Those verses absolutely preclude us from boasting that since we believe 50 things on a list then we are therefore saved (as many on this thread have done and are encouraged to do by even yourself via the poll). How about Acts 16:30-31 which says, “And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.”? I see no mention of understanding or believing a list of 50 statements regardless of whether those statements are true or not. All the man (and his household) needs to do is "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ". Would you really add your list to the Biblical requirements of salvation? Romans 2:25 which speaks of Jesus says, “Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;”. No list here either. This list of yours, while containing some statements that are true, has nothing to do in and of itself with the reality of one’s salvation or lack thereof at least according to the KJV. It is a different gospel which, incidentally, Paul warns believers about in Galatians 1:6-8 ”I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.”

What if something on your list is wrong? Think about that for a minute, just what if? Would that not possibly cause some of God’s people to be spiritually offended (or to stumble as they are following the teaching of one who claims to speak God’s truth)? Did Jesus say anything about that? Matthew 18:4-7 comes to mind: “Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven. And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me. But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea. Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!”.

I’m not going to wade through all 50, but number 8 is absolutely untrue according to the KJV. As Jesus said in Luke 12:24. “ye err, not knowing the Scriptures,” Leviticus 21:16-23 makes absolutely no mention of the church as it is in the context of the Jewish Temple which served an entirely different function than the church does. – see the middle of this post for more detail on this passage: http://www.landoverbaptist.net/showpost.php?p=520912&postcount=7 So, what happens now? This means that there is something on your list that the Bible says is untrue, yet you, “God’s own Mouthpiece” have told me that it is true. Who should I believe? God or you? I know who I’ll choose. This is not the only error according to the KJV on your list that as you said is “100% accurate,” but like I said, I’ll not take the time here to go through them all.

Finally sir, a word of encouragement. You more than most must be very careful. If you teach the Word of God as the pastor of His people, then you will be judged by God more strictly than those who are not pastors and teachers. can you imagine how that will be amplified in your case because of your vast reach and influence? James 3:1 – “My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.” 1 Timothy 2:15, “Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.”

I pray that you will repent of this false doctrine. It truly is a pleasure to meet you.

[Cranky Old Man]

Originally Posted by 2 Timothy 3:16

I do have some questions

Your miserable attempt at misleading God and us is going to fail completely. Proverbs 6:16-19 "These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren."

What if something on your list is wrong?

Nonsense.

I’m not going to wade through all 50

Don't be lazy. God does not like that. Proverbs 12:24 "The hand of the diligent will rule, But the lazy man will be put to forced labor."

I pray that you will repent of this false doctrine. It truly is a pleasure to meet you.

I pray you will stop lying to people until it is too late for you and you have to burn in the fires of Hell .

[Rev. Jim Osborne]

Originally Posted by 2 Timothy 3:16

Wow. Rev. Jim Osborne, I MUST say that it is a pleasure to meet you (albeit online on a message board). You are the very first honest-to-goodness, unashamed, world-class Health and Wealth preacher that I have ever had the privilege of meeting. I’ve always wanted the opportunity, but have never had one until now. I have SO MANY questions, but will do my best to constrain myself to the issue at hand: Salvation.

Even if the the medium of the internet makes it rather hard to pick up sarcasm and jokes sometimes, I can tell you are being sarcastic with your words. You are nothing but a liar, and a True Christian™ does not lie. You realize one of the Ten Commandments is against bearing false witness, right? Also consider the company you are in...

1st Timothy 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
1st Timothy 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

I must confess that I am one of your more “dim readers.” I hope you’ll show longsuffering and patience toward me as I do have some questions. After all, it is written in 2 Peter 3:9, “The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”

Indeed, I will. Do not think that I want you -- or anyone -- to go to Hell. I would like to see as many people go to Heaven. That is why I am taking the time out of my busy schedule to wake you up and see the Truth.

I agree with you 100% on EVERYTHING outside of the parenthesis. Verse 14 says, “Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.” Much later on the same subject, but in a different context, Jesus even says, “For many are called, but few are chosen.” (Matt 22:14). Praise Him that He even chose those few! Amen?

AMEN!

But RJO (can I call you that?), I do believe that you have missed what the KJV teaches about salvation in Jesus Christ. It teaches that salvation is by grace through faith, not works - Ephesians 2:8-9. Those verses absolutely preclude us from boasting that since we believe 50 things on a list then we are therefore saved (as many on this thread have done and are encouraged to do by even yourself via the poll). How about Acts 16:30-31 which says, “And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.”? I see no mention of understanding or believing a list of 50 statements regardless of whether those statements are true or not. All the man (and his household) needs to do is "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ". Would you really add your list to the Biblical requirements of salvation? Romans 2:25 which speaks of Jesus says, “Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;”. No list here either. This list of yours, while containing some statements that are true, has nothing to do in and of itself with the reality of one’s salvation or lack thereof at least according to the KJV.

You are misunderstanding what "faith" is. You can't have faith in Christ and have bad works follow. Works follow faith. You are implying that all we need to do is "believe in Jesus" and basically do whatever the heck we want and we are Saved? Wrong.

First off, the Bible tells us that works are required for salvation. It contradicts your claim of "It teaches that salvation is by grace through faith, not works"

Matthew 16:26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

The Bible makes it clear in the end we will be judged by our works. And personally, I find it somewhat amusing that you mentioned James 2:10 earlier because if you read a couple lines down, you will find one of the most vivid and clear commandments that works are necessary for salvation.

James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
[. . .]
James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
[. . .]
James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
[. . .]
James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
[. . .]
James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Faith without works is dead being alone. If truly believe, works will follow. Now, this leads us to my second point. Like I said, if you truly believed in Christ, you naturally would live a good life and follow all of the Bible. We know that True Christians™ cannot sin because we walk in the light.

1st John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1st John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1st John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1st John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Those verses right there tell us simply that those who abide in Christ do not sin. Those that do not abide him, do sin. Do you see where this is going? When you used the Acts and Romans quotes up above where Christ tells that you need faith, He is talking about having such a strong faith in Him that you do not sin. Works are the result of faith. Faith and works are so intertwined.

Let me make a little analogy for you: Three people are in an airplane. The plan suddenly hits turbulence, spins out of control, and starts a nose dive. The pilot asks the two people next to him: "Do you have faith that I can recover this plane?" Both people say "yes".

Twenty seconds later, and only 10,000 feet above the ground, one of the passengers suddenly puts on a parachute and jumps from the plane. The other passenger remains inside, next to the pilot. With 3,000 feet to go, the pilot recovers and the plane is safe.

Now, who here has the real faith? Both people expressed faith in the pilot. They both said they had faith. But, you can tell which one truly had faith -- by his actions. By staying behind.

It is a different gospel which, incidentally, Paul warns believers about in Galatians 1:6-8 ”

I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.”

It is not a different gospel. I quoted you from the AV1611 King James Bible, not some heretical NIV text.

What if something on your list is wrong? Think about that for a minute, just what if? Would that not possibly cause some of God’s people to be spiritually offended (or to stumble as they are following the teaching of one who claims to speak God’s truth)? Did Jesus say anything about that? Matthew 18:4-7 comes to mind: “Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven. And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me. But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea. Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!”.

Well nothing on the list is wrong at all. I provided references for every single question. If you feel one is wrong, simply look up the reference and see what the Bible says for yourself.

I’m not going to wade through all 50, but number 8 is absolutely untrue according to the KJV. As Jesus said in Luke 12:24. “ye err, not knowing the Scriptures,” Leviticus 21:16-23 makes absolutely no mention of the church as it is in the context of the Jewish Temple which served an entirely different function than the church does. – see the middle of this post for more detail on this passage: http://www.landoverbaptist.net/showpost.php?p=520912&postcount=7 So, what happens now? This means that there is something on your list that the Bible says is untrue, yet you, “God’s own Mouthpiece” have told me that it is true. Who should I believe? God or you? I know who I’ll choose. This is not the only error according to the KJV on your list that as you said is “100% accurate,” but like I said, I’ll not take the time here to go through them all.

Now you're playing word games. Since it was technically a "temple" therefore it doesn't apply to a "church"? Let's look at the verses in question...

Lev 21:16-23 The LORD said to Moses, 17 "Say to Aaron: 'For the generations to come none of your descendants who has a defect may come near to offer the food of his God. 18 No man who has any defect may come near: no man who is blind or lame, disfigured or deformed; 19 no man with a crippled foot or hand, 20 or who is hunchbacked or dwarfed, or who has any eye defect, or who has festering or running sores or damaged testicles. 21 No descendant of Aaron the priest who has any defect is to come near to present the offerings made to the LORD by fire. He has a defect; he must not come near to offer the food of his God. 22 He may eat the most holy food of his God, as well as the holy food; 23 yet because of his defect, he must not go near the curtain or approach the altar, and so desecrate my sanctuary. I am the LORD, who makes them holy. ' "

It makes it clear right there that handicapped people should not be allowed into the Lord's house, i.e., a church. Unless of course you seem to think that churches are unholy to begin with?

I should also point out that the verses imply a hatred of handicapped people. They are not worthy to worship them. In fact, handicapped people are punished by God.

Exodus 4:11 And the LORD said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD?

God makes people handicapped. And He doesn't want them in his churches. Sorry if this information spoils your false view that Christianity is some happy hippie lovefest where everyone is welcome. It's about time to throw off the brainwashing that liberal preachers have fed your mind with and open yourself up to the Truth.

Finally sir, a word of encouragement. You more than most must be very careful. If you teach the Word of God as the pastor of His people, then you will be judged by God more strictly than those who are not pastors and teachers. can you imagine how that will be amplified in your case because of your vast reach and influence? James 3:1 – “My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.” 1 Timothy 2:15, “Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.”

I do not fear being judged. I am without sin.

I pray that you will repent of this false doctrine. It truly is a pleasure to meet you.

I pray that you will repent of this false doctrine. It truly is a pleasure to meet you.

[2 Timothy 3:16]

Originally Posted by Rev. Jim Osborne

Even if the the medium of the internet makes it rather hard to pick up sarcasm and jokes sometimes, I can tell you are being sarcastic with your words. You are nothing but a liar, and a True Christian™ does not lie. You realize one of the Ten Commandments is against bearing false witness, right? Also consider the company you are in...

Originally Posted by Rev. Jim Osborne

1st Timothy 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
1st Timothy 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

Please sir, do not read sarcasm in my last post. I truly meant what I said. I profusely apologize if I gave you the wrong impression. I really do have many questions that I’d love to ask of you and in no way did I mean anything I wrote to be disrespectful.

Originally Posted by Rev. Jim Osborne

Indeed, I will. Do not think that I want you -- or anyone -- to go to Hell. I would like to see as many people go to Heaven. That is why I am taking the time out of my busy schedule to wake you up and see the Truth.

As you well know, no preacher worth his salt would want anyone in hell. In fact I don’t believe that anyone who actually understands anything about hell would want anyone else to go there. I have not explicitly said it until now, but thank you very much for your time.

Originally Posted by Rev. Jim Osborne

AMEN!

You are misunderstanding what "faith" is. You can't have faith in Christ and have bad works follow. Works follow faith. You are implying that all we need to do is "believe in Jesus" and basically do whatever the heck we want and we are Saved? Wrong.

I fully agree with you to this point. The “easy-believism” that is rampant in the church today is a horrible heresy that I think is only going to get worse. The idea that all a man has to do is say a prayer and intellectually agree to a few facts to receive eternal life with God in Heaven is a wicked lie. The Bible does not teach this at all and to your point, Scripture is absolutely loaded with doctrine that says that true, saving faith will result in works that manifest themselves in the life of the believer. I’m going to continue this thought in the next “section” of this post. But up to now, I see eye-to-eye with you on this.

Originally Posted by Rev. Jim Osborne

First off, the Bible tells us that works are required for salvation. It contradicts your claim of "It teaches that salvation is by grace through faith, not works"

Rev. Osborne, the Bible does not tell us that works are required for salvation. I hope to demonstrate that Biblically for you in this post. The claim I made that “salvation is by grace through faith, not works,” is not my claim. Paul wrote that in Ephesians 2:8-9: “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.” I know that you must know these verses by heart and hold them dear, so I am confused as to why you would at least appear to reject them like that.

Originally Posted by Rev. Jim Osborne

Matthew 16:26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
Matthew 16:27For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Revelation 20:12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Revelation 20:13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Matthew 16:27 and Revelation 20:11-15 refer to a judgment most often referred to as the “Great White Throne Judgment”. This comes from Revelation 20:11, “And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it….” This is the final judgment for the unsaved. In this judgment, yes, their works will be evaluated against the standard of perfection that God has set for entrance into Heaven apart from Christ, but nobody will pass that test because all have sinned (Romans 3:23 – “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;”). Look at Revelation 20:15, “And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.” According to Revelation 20:15, all whose names are not written in the book of life will go to hell. So, what is this book of life? Jesus alludes to it in Luke 10:20, “Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.” Paul expands on it in Philippians 4:3, “And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life.” In reference to Heaven, Revelation 21:27 says, “And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.” The book of life contains the names of all believers and it was written before the foundation of the world. If you (or anyone reading this) have never done a study on this, I’d encourage it, it is fascinating. The bottom line is this, the verses you’ve quoted above refer to unbelievers who live apart from saving faith in Jesus Christ. It does not refer to believers whose salvation rests in Him.

Now, very quickly, there IS another judgment for believers. But it is not a judgment determining their salvation. Rather it is for determining their reward in Heaven. Paul is explicit about it in 1 Corinthians 3:10-15, “According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.” Paul is talking about those who are saved, those who have the “foundation” of saving faith in Jesus Christ (see 1 Corinthians 3:1-9 for more context). The judgment he is referring to is explicit in verse 15 that it is not for salvation because even if a believer suffers loss, he will be saved. It is a judgment for reward (verse 14) for those who earned the reward (again, not salvation).

Originally Posted by Rev. Jim Osborne

The Bible makes it clear in the end we will be judged by our works.

Amen! But in the sense that I explained using the Scripture above.

Originally Posted by Rev. Jim Osborne

And personally, I find it somewhat amusing that you mentioned James 2:10 earlier because if you read a couple lines down, you will find one of the most vivid and clear commandments that works are necessary for salvation.

Originally Posted by Rev. Jim Osborne

James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
[. . .]
James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
[. . .]
James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
[. . .]
James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
[. . .]
James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Faith without works is dead being alone. If truly believe, works will follow.

OK, you say two different things here. First, that “works are necessary for salvation.” Second that “if you truly believe, works will follow.”

The Catholic church teaches and will fight to the death for your first point (at least what I’m understanding your first point to be), that works are necessary for (or produce) salvation. I wholly reject that doctrine because Scripture does not teach it.

The entire focus of James chapter 2 (much to the chagrin of the Catholic church) is exactly your second point. Namely, that faith will produce works (as opposed to works producing salvation). To that I shout a hearty “AMEN!” and echo with James and with you that “faith without works is dead, being alone.”

Originally Posted by Rev. Jim Osborne

Now, this leads us to my second point. Like I said, if you truly believed in Christ, you naturally would live a good life and follow all of the Bible. We know that True Christians™ cannot sin because we walk in the light.

Originally Posted by Rev. Jim Osborne

1st John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1st John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1st John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1st John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Those verses right there tell us simply that those who abide in Christ do not sin. Those that do not abide him, do sin. Do you see where this is going? When you used the Acts and Romans quotes up above where Christ tells that you need faith, He is talking about having such a strong faith in Him that you do not sin.

These verses right here taken all by themselves without any context do say exactly what you are saying. However, they were not written in a vacuum. There are other verses that come before them and they preclude the possibility of them meaning what you say they mean. I’ll explain that in a minute, but first, take a look at 1 John 1:9, “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” Keep in mind that he is writing to people who are already saved. Look at 1 John 2:1, “My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:”. Again, these are Christians, believers who, according to John, sin. There are other places in Scripture that we see the same principle. The first place that comes to mind is Romans 7:15, “For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.” Take a minute or two and read through that whole chapter. This is a snapshot of the apostle Paul’s struggle with sin in his life. Look at David and Bathsheba, look at Peter’s sin of hypocrisy that Paul calls him out on in Galatians 2, look at Moses when he struck the rock against God’s command and took God’s glory in providing water for the Hebrews. None of these men were unsaved when they did these things, they were all saved, but there was sin in their lives. It was not rampant and it certainly was not unconfessed, but it was there. With that as an admittedly incomplete background and the belief (that I know that we share) that Scripture cannot contradict Scripture, do you really hold that John was teaching that believers will be perfect in thought and deed always? I don’t. I think the key to understanding what he means is found in 1 John 1:6-7, “If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.” There are two keys here. The first, I think, is the word “walk.” It is an analogy to describe how we conduct our lives. Using John’s analogy, believers walk in the light, but that doesn’t mean that sometimes they don’t step into the darkness. They don’t walk there, but from time to time it is possible (certain, actually) that they will allow their feet to dip in, if you will. When we sin whether it be in thought or in deed, a true believer will not tolerate that sin in their lives and will confess it immediately (1 John 1:8). It does not mean that they live a life of constant perfection, but it does mean that true faith (from James, above) will not allow us to tolerate ongoing sin in our lives. The second key is that if we walk in the light, our position before God is that the blood of His Son has already cleansed us from all sin. This is how John can write 1 John 3:6-9 as you quoted above. We are already perfect in the eyes of the Father, not because we actually are, but because the blood of Christ has made all believers so.

Based on the context of the verses I quoted in the last post, I honestly do not see how you get the position that “the Acts and Romans quotes up above where Christ tells that you need faith, He is talking about having such a strong faith in Him that you do not sin.”

Originally Posted by Rev. Jim Osborne

Works are the result of faith. Faith and works are so intertwined.

Amen, again and again!

Originally Posted by Rev. Jim Osborne

Let me make a little analogy for you: Three people are in an airplane. The plan suddenly hits turbulence, spins out of control, and starts a nose dive. The pilot asks the two people next to him: "Do you have faith that I can recover this plane?" Both people say "yes".

Originally Posted by Rev. Jim Osborne

Twenty seconds later, and only 10,000 feet above the ground, one of the passengers suddenly puts on a parachute and jumps from the plane. The other passenger remains inside, next to the pilot. With 3,000 feet to go, the pilot recovers and the plane is safe.

Now, who here has the real faith? Both people expressed faith in the pilot. They both said they had faith. But, you can tell which one truly had faith -- by his actions. By staying behind.

It is not a different gospel. I quoted you from the AV1611 King James Bible, not some heretical NIV text.

It is a different gospel unless I misunderstood what you meant.

Let me give you a quick example. Quoting from the AV1611 KJV, 1 Kings 11:7 says, “Then did Solomon build an high place for Chemosh, the abomination of Moab, in the hill that is before Jerusalem, and for Molech, the abomination of the children of Ammon.” Now, I quoted from the correct version, but if I were to say that since Solomon did this, we all should worship Chemosh and Molech, that would be a wrong application of Scripture. Simply quoting the AV1611 KJV does not mean that it is being applied properly. Wouldn’t you agree?

A salvation that is obtained by my works is a different gospel than Scripture teaches. That’s what I meant.

Originally Posted by Rev. Jim Osborne

Well nothing on the list is wrong at all. I provided references for every single question. If you feel one is wrong, simply look up the reference and see what the Bible says for yourself.

Originally Posted by Rev. Jim Osborne

Now you're playing word games. Since it was technically a "temple" therefore it doesn't apply to a "church"? Let's look at the verses in question...

Lev 21:16-23 The LORD said to Moses, 17 "Say to Aaron: 'For the generations to come none of your descendants who has a defect may come near to offer the food of his God. 18 No man who has any defect may come near: no man who is blind or lame, disfigured or deformed; 19 no man with a crippled foot or hand, 20 or who is hunchbacked or dwarfed, or who has any eye defect, or who has festering or running sores or damaged testicles. 21 No descendant of Aaron the priest who has any defect is to come near to present the offerings made to the LORD by fire. He has a defect; he must not come near to offer the food of his God. 22 He may eat the most holy food of his God, as well as the holy food; 23 yet because of his defect, he must not go near the curtain or approach the altar, and so desecrate my sanctuary. I am the LORD, who makes them holy. ' "

It makes it clear right there that handicapped people should not be allowed into the Lord's house, i.e., a church. Unless of course you seem to think that churches are unholy to begin with?

No, that makes it clear that anyone considered ceremonially unclean was prohibited as serving as a priest in the Temple. That’s why verse 17 says “say to Aaron” as the Levitical priests came from Aaron’s line. Do you not understand the difference between the OT Temple and the NT church? Here are a few highlights. First, ONLY priests were allowed to enter the Temple. I don’t care how clean or unclean you and I are, if we are not priests, we are not getting in the building. The Temple was a slaughterhouse where all sacrifices were conducted. There were different “courts” surrounding the Temple that were clearly marked. There was one for Gentiles, inside that, Jewish women had one, inside that there was one for the Jewish men, and inside that was the court for the priests. None of these were inside the Temple itself. Inside the Temple you had the Holy Place and the High Holy Place. Only certain priests were allowed in these areas and only at certain times for certain reasons. The sacrificial system conducted by the priests was specifically designed to keep a distance between the worshipper and God. The church is not so. The church is the ingathering of the saints. The Temple’s system of priests is no longer in effect because Jesus is our High Priest who is our mediator between God and man. The instruction for priests in Leviticus is no longer applicable because there is only one Priest now, that is, Christ. He is the Perfect High Priest who has no spot or blemish. Seriously, read the entire book of Hebrews for God’s own commentary on this. To say that handicapped people are not allowed in church is a serious misapplication of the passage you are citing. Any church that would hold to this as sound doctrine is absolutely unholy. Especially one that institutes this teaching for deceptive reasons. Like, I don’t know, maybe the pastors with the “gift of healing” of said church are never successful in making the lame walk or the blind to see, for example? That’s just wicked on the face of it.

Originally Posted by Rev. Jim Osborne

I should also point out that the verses imply a hatred of handicapped people. They are not worthy to worship them. In fact, handicapped people are punished by God.

Originally Posted by Rev. Jim Osborne

Exodus 4:11 And the LORD said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD?

God makes people handicapped. And He doesn't want them in his churches. Sorry if this information spoils your false view that Christianity is some happy hippie lovefest where everyone is welcome. It's about time to throw off the brainwashing that liberal preachers have fed your mind with and open yourself up to the Truth.

I dealt with this with Pastor Ezekiel in this post. Read it if you want: http://www.landoverbaptist.net/showpost.php?p=520912&postcount=7

Originally Posted by Rev. Jim Osborne

I do not fear being judged. I am without sin.

Be careful. 1 John 1:8 says, “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.”

Originally Posted by Rev. Jim Osborne

I pray that you will repent of this false doctrine. It truly is a pleasure to meet you.

For the record, again, I mean nothing I’ve said sarcastically or in any disrespect of you personally. I have problems with some of your doctrine, but I mean nothing I’ve typed to be a personal affront to you. I mean that.