[Remy Lebeau]

Originally Posted by Nobar King

Anyway, she's a lot better than that 'James Peter' guy. What's his nick name? Jimmy Peter? That's just two names for pecker in my book.

Of course she is and she is also much much much much much much much much smater than Jim Pete. I didn't know just how stupid papist were until I engaged him in debate. Sadly, he is a poor opponent. But when you've been trained by Wash, all opponents are weak. Looks like another debating victory is coming up.

[James Peter]

Originally Posted by Remy Lebeau

That was a joke, right? You just made a complete and utter fool out of yourself.

Thank you for proving without a doubt that Mary is dead and buried by default seeing that the Bible says absolutely nothing about her ascending alive into heaven.

Did you really think you could just post random scripture and... nevermind, I don't want to know what goes on in that head of yours.

No, those quotes really do all refer to the Assumption of Mary, even the Pope said so!!! I mean, yes, read in context they obviously refer to other things, but God worded it in such a way that when read out of context we could see the truth!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assumpt...ptural_sources

“While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him. Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee. But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.” – Matthew 12:46-50

Above, Jesus distinguishes between blood brothers and brothers in faith.

"Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas? And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things? And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his OWN house." – Matthew 12:55-57

Not his Father's sister's house, but his OWN house.

"Aristarchus my fellow prisoner saluteth you, and Marcus, sister's son to Barnabas, (touching whom ye received commandments: if he come unto you, receive him" - Collosians 4:10

There is an actual greek word for cousin.

"And when they were come in, they went up into an upper room, where abode both Peter, and James, and John, and Andrew, Philip, and Thomas, Bartholomew, and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon Zelotes, and Judas the brother of James. These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren." - Acts 1:13-14

Clearly, Jesus's mother and brothers are counted seperately from those other men.

You have done nothing but spew conjecture. Funny how it says the Mary had other children as plain as day and yet you sit here cut and pasting a wall of text which attempts to rationalize away this most simple truth: that Mary had sex with Joseph, as God intended, and was not a virgin when she died.

You failed. Jesus had "half-brothers". You haven't shown otherwise. All you've shown is how much catholics can't be trusted to convey scripture. You're reaching reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally far and grabbing hold of nothing.

Because neither Hebrew nor Aramaic (the language spoken by Christ and his disciples) had a special word meaning "cousin," speakers of those languages could use either the word for "brother" or a circumlocution, such as "the son of my uncle." But circumlocutions are clumsy, so the Jews often used "brother."

The writers of the New Testament were brought up using the Aramaic equivalent of "brothers" to mean both cousins and sons of the same father—plus other relatives and even non-relatives. When they wrote in Greek, they did the same thing the translators of the Septuagint did. (The Septuagint was the Greek version of the Hebrew Bible; it was translated by Hellenistic Jews a century or two before Christ’s birth and was the version of the Bible from which most of the Old Testament quotations found in the New Testament are taken.)

In the Septuagint the Hebrew word that includes both brothers and cousins was translated as adelphos, which in Greek usually has the narrow meaning that the English "brother" has. Unlike Hebrew or Aramaic, Greek has a separate word for cousin, anepsios, but the translators of the Septuagint used adelphos, even for true cousins.

You might say they transliterated instead of translated, importing the Jewish idiom into the Greek Bible. They took an exact equivalent of the Hebrew word for "brother" and did not use adelphos in one place (for sons of the same parents), and anepsios in another (for cousins). This same usage was employed by the writers of the New Testament and passed into English translations of the Bible. To determine what "brethren" or "brother" or "sister" means in any one verse, we have to look at the context. When we do that, we see that insuperable problems arise if we assume that Mary had children other than Jesus.

When the angel Gabriel appeared to Mary and told her that she would conceive a son, she asked, "How can this be since I have no relations with a man?" (Luke 1:34). From the Church’s earliest days, as the Fathers interpreted this Bible passage, Mary’s question was taken to mean that she had made a vow of lifelong virginity, even in marriage. (This was not common, but neither was it unheard of.) If she had not taken such a vow, the question would make no sense.

Mary knew how babies are made (otherwise she wouldn’t have asked the question she did). If she had anticipated having children in the normal way and did not intend to maintain a vow of virginity, she would hardly have to ask "how" she was to have a child, since conceiving a child in the "normal" way would be expected by a newlywed wife. Her question makes sense only if there was an apparent (but not a real) conflict between keeping a vow of virginity and acceding to the angel’s request. A careful look at the New Testament shows that Mary kept her vow of virginity and never had any children other than Jesus.

When Jesus was found in the Temple at age twelve, the context suggests that he was the only son of Mary and Joseph. There is no hint in this episode of any other children in the family (Luke 2:41–51). Jesus grew up in Nazareth, and the people of Nazareth referred to him as "the son of Mary" (Mark 6:3), not as "a son of Mary." In fact, others in the Gospels are never referred to as Mary’s sons, not even when they are called Jesus’ "brethren." If they were in fact her sons, this would be strange usage.

Also, the attitude taken by the "brethren of the Lord" implies they are his elders. In ancient and, particularly, in Eastern societies (remember, Palestine is in Asia), older sons gave advice to younger, but younger seldom gave advice to older—it was considered disrespectful to do so. But we find Jesus’ "brethren" saying to him that Galilee was no place for him and that he should go to Judea so he could make a name for himself (John 7:3–4).

Another time, they sought to restrain him for his own benefit: "And when his family heard it, they went out to seize him, for people were saying, ‘He is beside himself’" (Mark 3:21). This kind of behavior could make sense for ancient Jews only if the "brethren" were older than Jesus, but that alone eliminates them as his biological brothers, since Jesus was Mary’s "first-born" son (Luke 2:7).

Consider what happened at the foot of the cross. When he was dying, Jesus entrusted his mother to the apostle John (John 19:26–27). The Gospels mention four of his "brethren": James, Joseph, Simon, and Jude. It is hard to imagine why Jesus would have disregarded family ties and made this provision for his mother if these four were also her sons.

http://www.catholic.com/library/Bret...f_the_Lord.asp

Do you WANT me to ban you? You are in OUR house. Show me some respect or get out. This is your first strike.

It may be your house, but it's the Pope's world. He is the supreme global leader.

Riddle me this, papist. How exactly would it be a bad example for a husband to have sex with his wife and have children? Would the survival of the human race be scandalous or a bad example. Spare me your lesbo feminazi propaganda about women not having to submit to their husbands in every way. As a woman, Mary's purpose in life was to function as a baby oven. For what reason would Mary not have relations with her husband? There is no rationale for this homersexural Joseph you are trying to portray other than the fact that you worship Mary as a goddess and don't like the idea of your goddess ever being diddled by a mortal man.

I almost forgot who I was talking to. Your church molests little boy and then protects the molesters from prosecution and pays out hush money AUTHORIZED BY YOUR HYPOCRITE GODLESS POPE!!! What would you know about avoiding scandal? May all your popes burn in Hell for all eternity!!!

http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2000/0007sbs.asp

"But it’s not a sin for a married couple to have marital relations."

True, ordinarily. But even in the Old Testament God asked married couples to refrain from intercourse for various reasons. For example, the priests of the temple had to refrain from intimacy with their wives during the time of their service. Likewise, Moses had the Israelites abstain from intercourse as he ascended Mount Sinai (Ex. 20:15). There is a theme here of refraining from marital rights because of the presence of something very holy.

The Church Fathers knew that there was something greater than the temple in Mary’s womb, comparing it to the Eastern Gate mentioned in Ezekiel 44: "This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it; for the Lord, the God of Israel, has entered by it; therefore it shall remain shut." Mary had become the dwelling place of the Almighty, like the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament.

Now, if Uzzah was struck dead for touching the Ark (2 Sam. 6:6–8), should it be surprising that Joseph understood that Mary was a vessel consecrated to God alone? The idea that Joseph assumed normal marital relations with Mary after the birth of Christ was an irreverence that even the Protestant reformers rejected.

Interestingly, according to Jewish law, if a man was betrothed to a woman and she became pregnant from another, he could never have relations with her. The man had to put her away privately or condemn her in public and put her to death. Joseph chose the more merciful option.

Then, the angel told him to lead her into the house as a wife (paralambano gunaika), but the language that describes marital relations is not used here. It was used, however, in Luke 1:35: "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you." To "overshadow" a woman was a euphemism for having a marital relationship, as was the phrase "to lay one’s power" over a woman. The Holy Spirit had espoused Mary, and she had been consecrated, set apart for God.

Also, it appears that Mary had made a vow of virginity. When the angel said that she would conceive and bear a son, she asked, "How can this be, since I do not know man?" She knew how babies were made, and she was about to be married. "How can this be?" would seem like a pretty silly question unless she had made a prior vow of virginity.

[Remy Lebeau]

Originally Posted by James Peter

No, those quotes really do all refer to the Assumption of Mary, even the Pope said so!!! I mean, yes, read in context they obviously refer to other things, but God worded it in such a way that when read out of context we could see the truth!

Hmm?

OK, I'm not even going to waste my time reading through the wall of text you cut and pasted because I'm sure it doesn't prove your point and makes you look like an even bigger idiot. I'm declaring victory. Jesus wins again!!!

Enjoy hell. Stock up on sun screen, drink plenty of liquid nitrogen and remember to bring lubricant.

[Levi Jones]

Originally Posted by Remy Lebeau

Hmm?

OK, I'm not even going to waste my time reading through the wall of text you cut and pasted because I'm sure it doesn't prove your point and makes you look like an even bigger idiot. I'm declaring victory. Jesus wins again!!!

Enjoy hell. Stock up on sun screen, drink plenty of liquid nitrogen and remember to bring lubricant.

He always does that when he's getting beaten badly, Brother Remy. He just copies and pastes longer and longer quotes from catlixs.com.

You have given him yet another beating at the hands of True Christians™.

[Remy Lebeau]

Originally Posted by Levi Jones

He always does that when he's getting beaten badly, Brother Remy. He just copies and pastes longer and longer quotes from catlixs.com.

You have given him yet another beating at the hands of True Christians™.

He was too easy. I'm not sure if it's even right to count it as my 84th victory. Maybe my record should only stand as 83.00003 victories on account that he is an obvious retard.

[James Peter]

Originally Posted by Remy Lebeau

Hmm?

OK, I'm not even going to waste my time reading through the wall of text you cut and pasted because I'm sure it doesn't prove your point and makes you look like an even bigger idiot. I'm declaring victory. Jesus wins again!!!

Enjoy hell. Stock up on sun screen, drink plenty of liquid nitrogen and remember to bring lubricant.

Okay, you can't handle reading more than a few short, simple sentences at once before your mind blanks off? Is that what you're saying?

[Remy Lebeau]

Originally Posted by James Peter

Okay, you can't handle reading more than a few short, simple sentences at once before your mind blanks off? Is that what you're saying?

What I'm saying is that nothing you post ever helps your case and that reading your cut and paste job is a waste of my time. If you don't even have the biblical knowledge to present your own arguments why should anyone take you seriously. Go cut and paste elsewhere, pedophile. You've been defeated.

[James Peter]

The scripture is NOT open to private interpretation!

[Remy Lebeau]

Originally Posted by James Peter

The scripture is NOT open to private interpretation!

Check out my latest conquest below in my signature. That retard admitted to "interpreting" unrelated verses to come to a conclusion born of his personal desires. It's a pretty shameful display of utter stupidity.

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Originally Posted by Remy Lebeau

Check out my latest conquest below in my signature. That retard admitted to "interpreting" unrelated verses to come to a conclusion born of his personal desires. It's a pretty shameful display of utter stupidity.

Praise Jesus! Another victory for God, thanks to the Holy Spirit coursing through Brother Remy's muscular frame. Another papist dog kicked for Christ! Shout Glory!!

[Levi Jones]

Originally Posted by Remy Lebeau

He was too easy. I'm not sure if it's even right to count it as my 84th victory. Maybe my record should only stand as 83.00003 victories on account that he is an obvious retard.

No, it was one of those 60 second knockouts a fighter needs to have every once in a while.

It took me a full day to knock him out. You did it in 3-4 posts.

[James Peter]

Originally Posted by Remy Lebeau

Check out my latest conquest below in my signature. That retard admitted to "interpreting" unrelated verses to come to a conclusion born of his personal desires. It's a pretty shameful display of utter stupidity.

It wasn't a PRIVATE interpretation. It was a valid reading of the text authorized by the Magisterum.

[Remy Lebeau]

Originally Posted by James Peter

It wasn't a PRIVATE interpretation. It was a valid reading of the text authorized by the Magisterum.

So all the higher up pedophiles pooled their collective brain power together to make a single retarded personality that thinks nothing concerning Mary equals everything about Mary?

That's atheist logic!!!

How dumb are they individually if that crap you cut and pasted is the work of their collective brain power?

[Oakland "Reb" Griner]

And what in the blue blazes would Mary know that God doesn't ???

[Catholic - Not Christian]

Originally Posted by Remy Lebeau

So all the higher up pedophiles pooled their collective brain power together to make a single retarded personality that thinks nothing concerning Mary equals everything about Mary?

That's atheist logic!!!

How dumb are they individually if that crap you cut and pasted is the work of their collective brain power?

Every day. That you pick up your Holy Bible. You put your complete and total trust in those "pedophiles" that you now ridicule. You owe everything you know about Jesus Christ to the Holy Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church.

It is historical fact that they, by their authority place with them by Jesus Christ, first established the canon oh Holy Scripture. And you dare to insult them.

[Remy Lebeau]

Originally Posted by Catholic - Not Christian

Every day. That you pick up your Holy Bible. You put your complete and total trust in those "pedophiles" that you now ridicule. You owe everything you know about Jesus Christ to the Holy Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church.

It is historical fact that they, by their authority place with them by Jesus Christ, first established the canon oh Holy Scripture. And you dare to insult them.

I don't owe those boy fondlers anything accept a neutering for all the sorry pitiful souls like yourself that they have mentally destroyed through their rectal violations. My trust is in GOD ALMIGHTY, not some mortal man. This is the problem with your cult. You worship men and a woman and have the nerve to imply that your Organized Pedophile Ring invented Jesus Christ!! BLASPHEMY!!!!

[Catholic - Not Christian]

Originally Posted by Remy Lebeau

I don't owe those boy fondlers anything accept a neutering for all the sorry pitiful souls like yourself that they have mentally destroyed through their rectal violations. My trust is in GOD ALMIGHTY, not some mortal man. This is the problem with your cult. You worship men and a woman and have the nerve to imply that your Organized Pedophile Ring invented Jesus Christ!! BLASPHEMY!!!!

You deny history. See my other thread:

http://www.landoverbaptist.net/showthread.php?t=29097

Jesus Christ appointed man to be His representative on Earth. Peter. The first Pope.

Matthew 16:13-20 - Upon this rock I will build my Church
Matthew 18:17-18 - if he refuses to listen even to the Church ... (shows the importance of obeying and consequences of disobeying the Church)
Matthew 28:18-20 - Go Baptize and teach all nations ...(the Church's mission)
Mark 16:16 - Go to the whole world and proclaim the gospel.
Luke 10:16 - Whoever hears you, hears me, he who rejects you, rejects me.
John 14:16,16, 26 - Holy Spirit will be with you always to teach and reminder you of everything.
John 16:12 - the Spirit of Truth with guide you to all truth.
1 Timothy 3:15 - Church is the pillar and foundation of truth

The Church is the Body of Christ
Romans 12:4-5 - though many, we are one body in Christ
1 Corinthians 6:15 - don't you know that your bodies are members of Christ
1 Corinthians 12:20-27 - you are Christ's body, individually parts of it
Ephesians 5:30 - we are members of his body
Colossians 1:18 - He is the head of the Body, the Church


The Church must be one.


John 10:16 - there shall be one fold and one shepherd
John 17:17-23 - I pray that they may be one, as we are one
John 17:23 - that they may be brought to perfection as one
Romans 12:5 - we, though many, are one body in Christ
Romans 15:5 - God grant you to think in harmony with one another
Romans 16:17 - avoid those who create dissensions
1 Corinthians 1:10 - I urge you that there be no divisions among you
1 Corinthians 12:13 - in one spirit we were baptized into one body
Ephesians 4:4-6 -There is one Body, one Spirit, just as one hope is the goal of your calling by God. There is one Lord, one faith, one baptism, and one God and Father of all, over all, through all and within all.
Philippians 2:2 - be of same mind, united in heart, thinking one thing
Colossians 3:15 - the peace into which you were called in one body

The Church is Apostolic

Matthew 16:13-20 - Jesus built his Church on Peter, the rock (foretold in the OT: Isaiah 22:15-25)
Luke 22:29-30 - I confer a kingdom on you, just as my Father conferred one on me: you will eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and you will sit on thrones to judge the twelve tribes of Israel.
Luke 22:32 - Peter appointed to be the chief shepherd (that Peter's faith may not fail)
John 10:16 - One shepherd to shepherd Christ's sheep
John 15:16 - Jesus chose special men to be his Apostles
John 21:17-19 - Peter appointed to be the chief shepherd
John 20:21 - Jesus gave the Apostles his own mission
Ephesians 4:11 - Church leaders are hierarchical
1 Timothy 3:1,8; 1 Timothy 5:17 - identifies roles of bishops, priests and deacons
Titus 1:5 - Commission for bishops to ordain priests


The Church is Authoritative Matthew 18:18 - Jesus gives to the Apostles the power to legislate
Matthew 18:17 - Jesus gives to the Apostles the power to discipline
Matthew 28:18-20 - Jesus delegates all power to Apostles
Luke 10:16 - Jesus gives to the Apostles the power to speak with Christ's voice
John 20:23 - Jesus gives to the Apostles the power to forgive sins
1 Corinthians 11:24 - Jesus gives to the Apostles the power to offer sacrifice (the Eucharist)

The Church is Infallible

Matthew 28:20 - Jesus tells them: I am with you always
Luke 10:16 - speaks with Christ's own voice
John 14:26 - Holy Spirit is to teach and remind them of everything
John 16:13 - guided by the Holy Spirit into all Truth
Acts 15:28 - Apostles speak with the voice of the Holy Spirit
1 Timothy 3:15 - Church is called the "pillar and foundation of truth"
1 John 2:27 - anointing of the Holy Spirit remains in you

The Church is Perpetual; Eternal/Un-ending Isaiah 9:6-7 - of Christ's government there will be no end
Daniel 2:44 - God's kingdom shall not be destroyed
Daniel 7:14 - his kingdom shall not be destroyed
Luke 1:32, 33 - no end to Christ kingdom
Matthew 7:24 - Jesus is like a wise man who built his house on a rock
Matthew 13:24-30 - let wheat and weeds grow together until harvest
Matthew 16:18 - the gates of Hell will never prevail against Christ's Church
John 14:16 - Holy Spirit will be with you always
Matthew 28:19-20 - I am with you all days

The Primacy of Peter Isaiah 22:15-25 - Prophecy of the Catholic Papacy foretold in the Old Testament
Matthew 16:18 - Upon this rock (Peter) I will build my Church. And the gates of Hell can never overpower it
Note: Many scholars believe Our Lord most probably spoke Aramaic because it was the native tongue for Jesus' immediate disciples. In Aramaic there is only one word for "rock": Kepha. So he would have said: "Blessed are you Simon bar Jonah, for flesh and blood have not revealed this to you but my Heavenly Father. So I say to you thou are "Kepha" and upon this "Kepha" I will build my Church and the gates of Hell will not prevail against it." Conversations about Petros and Petra therefore are probably irrelevant. St. Jerome, who translated the text to Greek would never give a female ending to a masculine person, Peter.
Matthew 16:19 - I will give you the keys of the kingdom of Heaven: whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven; whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven
Luke 22:32 - Peter's faith will strengthen his brethren. (Note: The word "you" {I have prayed for "you"} in Greek is in the personal tense, not the plural "you" like 'all you apostles' tense.)
John 21:17 - Given Christ's flock as chief shepherd
Mark 6:7 - angel sent to announce the Resurrection to Peter
Luke 24:34 - Risen Jesus first appeared to Peter
Acts 1:13-26 - Peter headed meeting which elected Matthias to replace Judas
Acts 2:14 - Peter lead Apostles in preaching on Pentecost
Acts 2:41 - Peter received the first converts
Acts 3:6-7 - Peter performed the first miracle after Pentecost
Acts 5:1-11 - Peter inflicted the first punishment: Ananias and Saphira
Acts 8:21 - Peter excommunicated the first heretic, Simon Magnus
Acts 10:44-46 - Peter received a revelation to admit the Gentles into the Church
Acts 15 - Peter lead the first Catholic council in Jerusalem
Acts 15:7-12 - Peter spoke saying: "My brothers, he said, .... But we believe that we are saved in the same way as they are: through the grace of the Lord Jesus." The entire assembly fell silent, and they listened to Barnabas and Paul describing all the signs and wonders God had worked through them among the gentiles." (pronounces the first dogmatic decision)
Galatians 1:8 - after his conversion, Paul visits the chief Apostle
Matthew 10:1-4, Mark 3:16-19, Luke 6:14-16, Acts 1:13 - Peter's name always heads the list of Apostles
Luke 9:32, Luke 8:46, Mark 16:7 - Peter and his companions
Matthew 18:21, Mark 8:29, Luke 12:41, John 6:69 - Peter spoke for the Apostles

Peter is mentioned 191 times in the New Testament. All the other apostles names combined are mentioned only 130 times. And the most commonly referenced apostle apart from Peter is John, whose name appears 48 times.

There is ONE Church that fits this criteria: Roman Catholic.
And it was the Roman Catholic Church which presented you with a Bible that you now entrust with your eternal life.

[Meek and Humble]

No, silly. The Catholic "church" was created (by men) long after the Bible was written (by God).

http://www.bible.ca/cath-bible-origin.htm
http://www.carm.org/religious-moveme...e-us-our-bible
http://www.chick.com/catalog/books/1252.asp
http://www.chick.com/catalog/books/e...52/1252ex1.asp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUwqNjcWcx8
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Bible..._catholics.htm
http://www.portlandchristians.net/wp..._the_bible.pdf

I eagerly await your next pack of lies

[Remy Lebeau]

You are simply asserting that your Pedophile Ring is that which is referenced in those verses. In no way, shape or form does it say that the Catholic Church is THE church. The Bible does not even mention the Roman Catholic Church. The idea that Peter was the first pope is a catholic myth invented by your antichrist church.

You catholic swine infuriate me with the liberties you take with scripture. The mormons will probably take those same verses and claim that theirs' is THE church after seeing your pathetic "interpretation".

The REAL church is the one that follows all of the Bible and doesn't add to it. That definitely isn't the Roman Pedophile Association of Cardinals nor its pedophiliac, pedophile protecting, hush money dealing pope.

[Catholic - Not Christian]

Originally Posted by Heathen_Basher

No, silly. The Catholic "church" was created (by men) long after the Bible was written (by God).

http://www.bible.ca/cath-bible-origin.htm
http://www.carm.org/religious-moveme...e-us-our-bible
http://www.chick.com/catalog/books/1252.asp
http://www.chick.com/catalog/books/e...52/1252ex1.asp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUwqNjcWcx8
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Bible..._catholics.htm
http://www.portlandchristians.net/wp..._the_bible.pdf

I eagerly await your next pack of lies

I think I would die of old age should I attempt to trudge through all of your propoganda.

If you come up with a real point, post it here, and I will address it so.
But you seriously cannot expect me to wade through this ocean of links. I would not expect this of you. Post points (not links) individually, and we can take this one step at a time