[JustAnotherHuman]

As I said, what if an unbeliver does incredibly good things, like saving one of you from falling off a cliff? Would he still go to hell?

[Mrs. Mary Whitford]

Originally Posted by JustAnotherHuman

As I said, what if an unbeliver does incredibly good things, like saving one of you from falling off a cliff? Would he still go to hell?

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

And so on, and so on. It appears that your problem isn't with us, it's with Jesus. Personally, I find it easier to believe and obey because it just makes sense.

[imogene]

The society is in a situation now where they don't need God to have morals. Nonetheless, what an individual person thinks is good is different. Even Hitler didn't wake up going, 'let me do the most evil thing I can do today.' I think he woke up in the morning and using a twisted, backwards logic, he set out to do what he thought was 'good.'

[Religious_Zealot]

Originally Posted by Sister Mary Maria

And so on, and so on. It appears that your problem isn't with us, it's with Jesus. Personally, I find it easier to believe and obey because it just makes sense.

But doesn't it make a lot more sense to think for yourself instead of having a thousand-year-old book, whose original origins can't possibly be proven to be real, tell you what to do? To be a true Christian isn't to follow the Bible literally word for word. If that is the case, then everyone on this site is doing many, MANY things wrong, and is not a true Christian. In fact, I doubt there is one truely Christian person on earth. Why? Because to be the definition of a "Christian" is to live exactly like Christ. That's not possible because nobody is perfect. That's just human nature.

Also, the Bible is incredibly hypocritical. That's reason enough to follow it with a grain of sand... that is, read it as it is and not act on it like a mindless robot.

[Transmission]

He whom is open minded to all respects of realities is one who utilizes the true power of mentality, the power of pure will and private morality. Ethical understanding is developed based upon ones true behavior; moving aside influential thoughts and the perception of God.

In a certain aspect, we all play a role in maintaining a certain level of consciousness between minds of living things. One does not require faith to showcase a positive flow of energy. One needs their mind. Our mind is of unlimited potential, it is an unknown tool we will never unscramble no matter what science or technology is plugged into the very core of it.

Utilizing both a private, person morality and ethical understanding of the world before us reveals unlimited potential to the beholder.

[Father Thomas Martin]

Originally Posted by Sister Mary Maria

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

And so on, and so on. It appears that your problem isn't with us, it's with Jesus. Personally, I find it easier to believe and obey because it just makes sense.

James 2:24

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

[RogueFilosifer]

Originally Posted by Transmission

He whom is open minded to all respects of realities is one who utilizes the true power of mentality, the power of pure will and private morality. Ethical understanding is developed based upon ones true behavior; moving aside influential thoughts and the perception of God.

In a certain aspect, we all play a role in maintaining a certain level of consciousness between minds of living things. One does not require faith to showcase a positive flow of energy. One needs their mind. Our mind is of unlimited potential, it is an unknown tool we will never unscramble no matter what science or technology is plugged into the very core of it.

Utilizing both a private, person morality and ethical understanding of the world before us reveals unlimited potential to the beholder.

Now being a student of the english language I am obligated to inform you that you are incorrect in your use of "Ethical". Ethics are applied only as a group or community determined set of morals. Morals are your personal guidelines, which differ in every single person. However, your message in its general entirety is correct, the belief in "God" does not bring the world together so much as the thoughts that create that belief.

Now as far as the topic of this thread is concerned may I quote the Golden Rule? "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" and then the words of Jesus himself "Love thy neighbour as I love you". That includes gays and lesbians, and all non believers.

[JennyD]

Originally Posted by imnotgene

The society is in a situation now where they don't need God to have morals. Nonetheless, what an individual person thinks is good is different. Even Hitler didn't wake up going, 'let me do the most evil thing I can do today.' I think he woke up in the morning and using a twisted, backwards logic, he set out to do what he thought was 'good.'

Nice plagiarism, Will Smith. Thou shalt not steal.

Originally Posted by Jesus_Hating_Zealot

But doesn't it make a lot more sense to think for yourself instead of having a thousand-year-old book, whose original origins can't possibly be proven to be real, tell you what to do? To be a true Christian isn't to follow the Bible literally word for word. If that is the case, then everyone on this site is doing many, MANY things wrong, and is not a true Christian. In fact, I doubt there is one truely Christian person on earth. Why? Because to be the definition of a "Christian" is to live exactly like Christ. That's not possible because nobody is perfect. That's just human nature.

Also, the Bible is incredibly hypocritical. That's reason enough to follow it with a grain of sand... that is, read it as it is and not act on it like a mindless robot.

Do tell, exactly how is God's Word hypocritical? And who are you, a mere human, to insult God in this manner?

Originally Posted by RogueFiloDoughEater

Now as far as the topic of this thread is concerned may I quote the Golden Rule? "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" and then the words of Jesus himself "Love thy neighbour as I love you". That includes gays and lesbians, and all non believers.

Please, do quote the Golden Rule. In context, from the KJV1611.

Then look through the Bible and figure out exactly how "neighbour" is defined.

You will see that Jesus commanded us to love our brothers and sisters in Christ, and to turn away nonbelievers who refuse to repent, just as He will turn them away to an eternity in Hell for their wilful rejection of His Love.

The day will come, RogueBrewery, when you will stand before Jesus on Judgment Day. He will ask you if you kept His commandments. What will you say?

"Oh, well, I kept the ones I liked -- you know, that Golden Rule thing -- and ignored the rest. Yeah, I took pleasure in the homers, even though Your Book said that doing so would lead to my condemnation. The Book must have been wrong."

Jesus will say, "I understand your position. You picked the parts that you liked of Me, and threw the rest away. I shall follow your lead.

"I pick . . . your nose."

Then Jesus will take up His Holy Sword and lop off your nose! As you stand dumbfounded, blood spurting from your face as your blessed nose rolls into Heaven, Jesus will give you one swift sandal to the chest, casting the rest of you screaming downward into eternal Hellfire!

Sound good? Or would you rather get right with God, and have ALL your 2000 parts join Him and us in Heaven?

[lovethygod]

No, he would not go to hell.

[JennyD]

Originally Posted by lovethygod

No, he would not go to hell.

Please explain to us upon what you base your belief that ignoring God's Word (and, in fact, acting in direct opposition to His commandments) will get this person a one-way ticket to Heaven.

Your own imagination or your human concepts of "fair play" are not relevant, only God's Will is.

[Mrs. Mary Whitford]

Originally Posted by Religious_Zealot

To be a true Christian isn't to follow the Bible literally word for word.

Do you have any scriptural basis for this wild-eyed theory of yours? I've read the entire Bible, or so I thought. I seem to have missed where it says to pick and choose what parts to follow.

Originally Posted by Father Thomas Martin

James 2:24

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

I know you're distracted by visions of altarboys having pillow fights, but what part of "...not by faith only" implies to you that faith isn't required at all for salvation? Without ignoring the word "only", of course.

[Transmission]

What I don't understand is the perception of extreme believers. It is very interesting in fact as to why people of other belief are in such denial when it comes to truth and reality.

Lets this be a warning for all proceeding to read that I in no way am denying the possibility of God.

It is fact that no religion is more valid than the other. This includes comparing belief of the Bible, or the belief of the Koran, or belief of I Ching. Belief is belief, without a doubt there has been no ultimate proof stating that one religion is true and the other is not. Therefore those that impose upon others the belief that Christianity is superior to Islam or Buddhism or whatever it be are simply in denial of the truth. Either in denial or so far into belief they have abandoned mans ability to think and analyze equally.

You tell a Muslim they are no different than a Christian, they get angry.
You tell a Christian they are no different than a Muslim, they get angry.
Anger is for those that cannot handle reality.

Reality is, all religions are beliefs. Some are so into their belief they swear by it being more valid than the other, believing every aspect of which they live their lives in belief, is true. What many of these people do not know is that we were all born free-thinking, without religious belief. Once this person challenges their belief they ultimately start to question whether it is right to even question their belief at first. They get scared, thinking a demon has possessed them to think differently, to think freely without restraint.

The question is, if the Messiah hasn't come to judge the living and the dead, than how is it fact? The answer is, there is no truth, at least not now. Until the Messiah has come, every single aspect of Christianity is belief. Some swear by it, some not so much, some don't believe at all. Everyone is equally entitled to believe in their own religion. No religion in any way has a more valid system than the other. A book may be written by anyone. Unless you were really there during the writing of the Bible or the Koran then you really have no say as far as validity of text is concerned.

Let me give an example to the mentality of an extreme believer. Say someone on this forum registers a user name such as "Pastor Bob" and spends weeks, even months making others believe that he himself is a true believer. He goes about making friends, preaching, copy/pasting excerpts from the Bible and then makes a thread saying that his mass amount of belief has granted him the ability to speak to God; that God came to him in his consciousness and spoke to him of marvelous events. What these friends of Pastor Bob do not know is that the Pastor has actually lied about all of these occurrences. Lied about his belief, lied about his favorite Bible readings and lied about the events that took place after. Yet they truly believed him. Giving him praises, blessings and all of those positive things.

In conclusion what is the truth? We don't know what the truth is; until we do, our mentality of religion is a belief. Making one religion no greater or better than the other. Because in reality, we're still human. That is all that we know for sure. We are human and our beliefs should NOT be imposed upon anyone, nor should anyone be judged by another who has lived their life based upon belief. That is one of the biggest evils a living thing could do upon another, denying one due to belief. I'm sure we all know that our world is not a peaceful place in any aspect.

There are so many beliefs in the world that it is actually frightening to travel and meet people of all different cultures. Everyone speaks so highly of peace, yet never begin to realizes that maybe it is our own mentality and denial that has brought upon such madness. Maybe we forget that in order to guarantee our children and future generations a place to live, we should work together. Be it with believers, none believers, Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists and Atheists (Whether I left a religion out, I apologize), and instead of quarreling over such ridiculous matters as video games or cartoons and which religion is right or wrong, we could work to make this world a far safer and better place for our future to grow; together.

Just a thought to think about.

[JennyD]

Originally Posted by Trans on a Mission

What I don't understand is the perception of extreme believers. It is very interesting in fact as to why people of other belief are in such denial when it comes to truth and reality.

Trans, I agree. I do find it interesting that people deny Jesus when the Bible is right in front of them. Have you any idea why they would do such a thing?

Lets this be a warning for all proceeding to read that I in no way am denying the possibility of God.

It is fact that no religion is more valid than the other.

Well, outside of Christianity, no, no religion is more valid than the other. Each and every one of those other religions will equally land you in eternal Hellfire. Read the Bible and you will see.

You tell a Muslim they are no different than a Christian, they get angry.
You tell a Christian they are no different than a Muslim, they get angry.
Anger is for those that cannot handle reality.

I'd never tell a Muslim that he is no different than a Christian. Muslims worship their moon-demon and are bound for eternal torture in Hell.

Reality is, all religions are beliefs. Some are so into their belief they swear by it being more valid than the other, believing every aspect of which they live their lives in belief, is true. What many of these people do not know is that we were all born free-thinking, without religious belief. Once this person challenges their belief they ultimately start to question whether it is right to even question their belief at first. They get scared, thinking a demon has possessed them to think differently, to think freely without restraint.

Actually, we were all born with sin, and with Satan whispering in our ears to lead us astray. Read your Bible, and you will see that it is so.

The question is, if the Messiah hasn't come to judge the living and the dead, than how is it fact? The answer is, there is no truth, at least not now. Until the Messiah has come, every single aspect of Christianity is belief. Some swear by it, some not so much, some don't believe at all. Everyone is equally entitled to believe in their own religion. No religion in any way has a more valid system than the other. A book may be written by anyone. Unless you were really there during the writing of the Bible or the Koran then you really have no say as far as validity of text is concerned.

Absolutely, everyone is entitled to believe in whatever she likes. You may worship the Flying Spaghetti Monster, if you so desire, and that is your right.

It is then your responsibility to bear the consequences for your choice. That is, eternal torture for rejecting God and His Love.

Let me give an example to the mentality of an extreme believer. Say someone on this forum registers a user name such as "Pastor Bob" and spends weeks, even months making others believe that he himself is a true believer. He goes about making friends, preaching, copy/pasting excerpts from the Bible and then makes a thread saying that his mass amount of belief has granted him the ability to speak to God; that God came to him in his consciousness and spoke to him of marvelous events. What these friends of Pastor Bob do not know is that the Pastor has actually lied about all of these occurrences. Lied about his belief, lied about his favorite Bible readings and lied about the events that took place after. Yet they truly believed him. Giving him praises, blessings and all of those positive things.

What's your point with the hypothetical nonsense? This is God's Favorite Forum, and we are God's People. We are not duped by such nonsense.

[Mrs. Mary Whitford]

Originally Posted by Transmission

Maybe we forget that in order to guarantee our children and future generations a place to live, we should work together... we could work to make this world a far safer and better place for our future to grow; together.

After editing out all the blasphemy, we're left with this bit of nonsense. "Future generations"? "For our future to grow"? We're in End Times, my friend! If you're lucky, there might be time enough for one more generation, maybe even two if the children start breeding at puberty, but I doubt there is even that much time left!

http://contenderministries.org/prophecy/endtimes.php
http://duncanlong.com/science-fictio.../olympics.html
http://www.raptureready.com/

The list of references go on and on! You need to get yourself right with the Lord and repent before it's too late, because once you're standing at Judgement, there will be no saying you're sorry! There will be no slaps on the wrist! THERE WILL BE NO PLEA BARGAINING! If you haven't been saved through the Blood of Christ, you will be facing eternal damnation!
Drop to your knees and pray like there's no tomorrow, because there just may not be!

[Transmission]

This is why it is nearly impossible to speak. You cannot think outside of your belief. You have made my point clear. You are afraid to think outside of belief because you believe you will go to hell if you do so. That is exactly why our world was doomed from the start. Our minds are easily persuaded by promises of happiness and eternity.

[Mrs. Mary Whitford]

Originally Posted by Transmission

This is why it is nearly impossible to speak. You cannot think outside of your belief. You have made my point clear. You are afraid to think outside of belief because you believe you will go to hell if you do so. That is exactly why our world was doomed from the start. Our minds are easily persuaded by promises of happiness and eternity.

I don't step off a cliff because I know I will plummet to my death if I do so. As much as you wish it were so, we don't live in an Elmer Fudd world where you won't fall if you don't believe you're standing on thin air. You will fall, you will die.
Eternal damnation is like that. Not wanting it to exist doesn't make the fires scorching your soul because you rejected Jesus any less real.

[RogueFilosifer]

Originally Posted by JennyD

Please explain to us upon what you base your belief that ignoring God's Word (and, in fact, acting in direct opposition to His commandments) will get this person a one-way ticket to Heaven.

Your own imagination or your human concepts of "fair play" are not relevant, only God's Will is.

So riddle me this "Jenny *obscenity deleted*" in what *obscenity deleted* backwards reality do you live where your "God" has hands and cares enough about your sorry *obscenity deleted* to write a book? Authors are depressive creeps! Not GODS!

[Transmission]

Originally Posted by Sister Mary Maria

I don't step off a cliff because I know I will plummet to my death if I do so. As much as you wish it were so, we don't live in an Elmer Fudd world where you won't fall if you don't believe you're standing on thin air. You will fall, you will die.
Eternal damnation is like that. Not wanting it to exist doesn't make the fires scorching your soul because you rejected Jesus any less real.

Mam, I never spoke of not dying. We all die.

I never said hell does not exist, I said it is not absolutely true that it does. It is a belief that it does. Until the Messiah comes to judge the living and the dead, Christianity is a belief. Not a fact.

[JennyD]

Originally Posted by RogueFilosifer

So riddle me this "Jenny D*****" in what *** backwards reality do you live where your "God" has hands and cares enough about your sorry *** to write a book? Authors are depressive creeps! Not GODS!

You're certainly a vulgar one. I'll thank you not to speak that way on this Church forum. How you speak to your "moms" in the "hood" is your business, but this is God's house!

Man was made in God's likeness. Man has hands. God has hands.

Don't you read, son?

Why would God bother to create us if He didn't care about us? Why would He create Hell to torture people like you for all eternity in, when you reject Him?

Really, now you're just being silly. All your childish ranting and cussing won't make God go away, and it won't scare us off, either. We just want you to come to Jesus; the fact that you're sitting on our Church forum indicates that you want to, as well!

[Mrs. Mary Whitford]

Originally Posted by Transmission

Mam, I never spoke of not dying. We all die.

I never said hell does not exist, I said it is not absolutely true that it does. It is a belief that it does. Until the Messiah comes to judge the living and the dead, Christianity is a belief. Not a fact.

I used death by falling as a comparison to help point out that no matter what you belief, reality is still the truth.
Speaking of reality, the Jesus already came to Earth once and performed many miracles, including His resurrection after the crucifixion. That is a fact, thus Christianity isn't a belief, it's the objective truth.