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Default A Biblical understanding of evidence - 08-17-2013, 11:12 AM

Have you ever noticed how in creation—evolution debates each side claims its views are supported by evidence? The biggest issue in these debates seems to be what constitutes evidence. Critics of the Bible often claim that God allowed people to be put to death on what today would be considered insufficient evidence. Atheists would say there is no evidence of God’s existence. So what is evidence? As Christians, we should get our understanding of evidence from the Bible.

The Bible itself is the hardest evidence of God’s existence. He inspired its authors (2 Tim 3:16). If He doesn’t exist, who inspired the authors?

Another compelling form of evidence is faith. Faith is based on what we hope is true. It is evidence of the invisible, the unobservable and the undetectable.

Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

You can have faith based on examination of physical evidence, but Jesus frowns on this. Faith based on what you have never seen or touched is nobler.

Jn 20:24-29
24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.
25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.
26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

There is another lesson in this passage. Thomas should have believed the other disciples. Despite what psychologists would have us believe, witness testimony is 100% accurate. If two or more people say something, it must be true.

Jn 8:17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true. (cf. Deut 17:6; 19:15; Mat 18:16; 2 Cor 13:1; 1 Tim 5:19; Heb 10:28)

This means people were never stoned or burned alive or otherwise put to death unjustly – except, of course, Jesus (Mat 26:59-61) (and Naboth [1 Ki 21:13] and Stephen [Acts 6:11-14]), but that was divinely ordained. If there is only one witness to an event, then there may be need for cross-examination (Deut 19:16-19). But in the case of Jesus’ resurrection we have 500 witnesses (1 Cor 15:3-6), all of whom are now dead. This is unequivocal evidence. Case closed.

But what evidence do we have that Jesus was who He claimed to be? Plenty. For starters, He didn’t testify of Himself, because that would make His testimony untrue, but even if He did testify of Himself, His testimony is still true. His works, the miracles and signs and wonders He performed 2,000 years ago, recorded for us in the Gospels, written decades after His ascension, are evidence of His claims. There is also the fact that God the Father, whom no one can hear or see, bore witness of Jesus.

Jn 5:31-37
31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
32 There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.
33 Ye sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth.
34 But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye might be saved.
35 He was a burning and a shining light: and ye were willing for a season to rejoice in his light.
36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.
37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

Jn 8:14-18
14 Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go.
15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.
16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.
17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.

Jn 10:38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him. (cf. Jn 14:11)

There you have it. Miracles we have never seen are how we know Jesus is the Son of God.

One mistake unbelievers often make when they look at evidence is that they try to evaluate it. The Bible doesn’t say much about evaluating or weighing evidence. Evidence is evidence is evidence. Take, for example, the case of a groom who believes his bride may not have been a virgin when he married her. The only evidence the bride needs to exonerate herself is the bloodied bed sheets from her wedding night. The only evidence groom needs to have her stoned to death is the absence her bloodied bed sheets.

Deut 22:13-21
13 If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her,
14 And give occasions of speech against her, and bring up an evil name upon her, and say, I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found her not a maid:
15 Then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel's virginity unto the elders of the city in the gate:
16 And the damsel's father shall say unto the elders, I gave my daughter unto this man to wife, and he hateth her;
17 And, lo, he hath given occasions of speech against her, saying, I found not thy daughter a maid; and yet these are the tokens of my daughter's virginity. And they shall spread the cloth before the elders of the city.
18 And the elders of that city shall take that man and chastise him;
19 And they shall amerce him in an hundred shekels of silver, and give them unto the father of the damsel, because he hath brought up an evil name upon a virgin of Israel: and she shall be his wife; he may not put her away all his days.
20 But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel:
21 Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.

Unbelievers tend to ask too many questions when they see passages like this. They overanalyse. What if the bride’s parents got some clean sheets and stained them with animal blood? What if the bed sheets got lost or destroyed somehow? What if the bride’s hymen was broken in an accident? If only they applied the same critical thinking to their own beliefs! Yes, it would be truly terrible if a guilty woman got away with fornication, but God doesn’t want us to nitpick and find fault with evidence. If God says it’s evidence, we should accept it, not play the “what if” game.

The whole secular legal system misunderstands the very nature of evidence, as does the scientific community. Our understanding of evidence must come from God. Then we will have all the evidence we need to support our beliefs.


Mt 21:42, 44 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes . . . ? And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

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Default Re: A Biblical understanding of evidence - 08-17-2013, 12:40 PM

Hello Pim Pendergast.

I did not understand everything that you wrote even though it was written very clearly and it was supported by Scripture I have some neurocognitive deficit issues that often lead to low-grade confabulations and although it may seem like it I am not making words up.

Anyway this is not the first time that things should make sense and they do not and so I think about Proverbs 3:5 and it says:

Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

When I hear contradictory things from the religious side and the secular side I always side with the religious side because God has already told me in Proverbs 3:5 that if I do not understand something then it is true.

I hope that scientists and academics do not start putting a disclaimer like that in their books because then things would get very confusing.

Thank you.

Rusty


Psalms 116:6 The LORD preserveth the simple: I was brought low, and he helped me.
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Default Re: A Biblical understanding of evidence - 08-17-2013, 01:06 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell Holbeck View Post
When I hear contradictory things from the religious side and the secular side I always side with the religious side because God has already told me in Proverbs 3:5 that if I do not understand something then it is true.

I hope that scientists and academics do not start putting a disclaimer like that in their books because then things would get very confusing.
Hello, Rusty. You raise a good point. Keep trusting in God. One day you will confound the wise.

1 Cor 1:26-29
26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.


Mt 21:42, 44 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes . . . ? And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

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Default Re: A Biblical understanding of evidence - 08-17-2013, 02:00 PM

Is The Bible telling us that whichever side has the most votes wins?

Meaning, if there are three evolutionists who claim everything came from monkeys, how many good Christians does it take to disprove their claim?

One could argue according to Hebrews 13:8 it only takes a single man armed only with the KJV, as it has the recorded testimonies of so many.

How many votes does God get? With the story of Genesis, Adam and Eve only witnessed the very tail end of Creation. True Christians™ trust God's Word, so it would seem he gets infinite votes. Or is it a situation where He always gets the deciding vote, as with a tie between one Christian and three evolutionists?

Deuteronomy 28 tells us that those diligent in submission to The Lord shall be raised high above other nations, and that God shall give them plenty and smite their enemies.

Can I use The United States as proof?

The same chapter tells of the fate to befall people that worship other gods and false idols. Pestilence, plague, dust storms, the list goes on.

Can Afghanistan be used as proof?

I agree with Brother Rusty, that there are things that I don't understand but know are true. But that doesn't mean that I shouldn't be able to speak intelligently with authority about them.

I know that you can clear this up for me Brother Pim, with you extensive knowledge of Theoscience

God Bless
DAM


Psalm 137:8-9 O daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be, that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us.
Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.



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Default Re: A Biblical understanding of evidence - 08-17-2013, 03:27 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dec Abdiel Mordecai View Post
Is The Bible telling us that whichever side has the most votes wins?

Meaning, if there are three evolutionists who claim everything came from monkeys, how many good Christians does it take to disprove their claim?
This is a good question. We know the vast majority of people will go to hell. We Christians are in the minority.

Mat 7:13-14 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

The Bible says that every matter shall be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses. If three evolutionists tell you the universe started with a big bang, just ask them, "Were you there?" If they weren't there, they never witnessed it, so why should we believe them?

Quote:
One could argue according to Hebrews 13:8 it only takes a single man armed only with the KJV, as it has the recorded testimonies of so many.
Hebrews 12:1-2 would be better.

Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

The "cloud of witnesses" are the heroes of the faith mentioned in the previous chapter -- Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, etc. All we have of these men are recorded testimonies. In fact, since all the witnesses to all the events in the Bible are now dead, all we have is recorded testimony, which must be good enough.

Quote:
How many votes does God get?
God gets three votes; therefore He is always right.

1 Jn 5:7-9
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.


Quote:
With the story of Genesis, Adam and Eve only witnessed the very tail end of Creation.
Adam was created after all the plants and animals and Eve was created when he was asleep, so they didn't really witness Creation. Moses wrote Genesis perhaps 2,500 years after Creation.

Quote:
Deuteronomy 28 tells us that those diligent in submission to The Lord shall be raised high above other nations, and that God shall give them plenty and smite their enemies.

Can I use The United States as proof?

The same chapter tells of the fate to befall people that worship other gods and false idols. Pestilence, plague, dust storms, the list goes on.

Can Afghanistan be used as proof?
Perhaps you could, but these blessings and curses were fulfilled in the Bible. The Bible tells us there were times when Israel was blessed and crushed its enemies and times when it turned from God and was cursed. This is proof that Deuteronomy 28 was inspired prophecy. How else could Moses have known what would happen? The Bible is truly amazing. Name one other book in which later events were predicted towards the beginning.

Quote:
I agree with Brother Rusty, that there are things that I don't understand but know are true. But that doesn't mean that I shouldn't be able to speak intelligently with authority about them.
Well said. Amen!


Mt 21:42, 44 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes . . . ? And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

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Default Re: A Biblical understanding of evidence - 08-17-2013, 04:30 PM

Quote:
Perhaps you could, but these blessings and curses were fulfilled in the Bible. The Bible tells us there were times when Israel was blessed and crushed its enemies and times when it turned from God and was cursed. This is proof that Deuteronomy 28 was inspired prophecy. How else could Moses have known what would happen? The Bible is truly amazing. Name one other book in which later events were predicted towards the beginning.
Yes, I was just hoping that there was the possibility of continuing prophesy, due to the laying of hands 2 Timothy 1:6 Romans 1:11

I just have to remind myself of 1 Corinthians 13:8-13 and the end of prophesy.

Thanks for clearing that up, I hate when my own fantasy gets muddled with Biblical Fact, I just get turned around

God Bless
DAM


Psalm 137:8-9 O daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be, that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us.
Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.



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