[kdb176]

I offered no opinions on your faith, whatsoever. What I did was point out inconsistencies in logic and statements that would tend to lead people to believe that you believe things that are contra-indicated by the statements of your faith. I am aware that you do not care in the slightest what I believe.

[Mrs. Mary Whitford]

And yet you keep persecuting us and mocking God.

[James Hutchins]

Originally Posted by kdb176

Mr. Hutchins, Every post I initially made was in the context of trying to get at just what exactly your congregation believes. If I seemed rude, it was out of confusion. Further posts were only in response to what seemed to me to be direct attacks on my intelligence.

It is not all about you. That is a large part of the problem. Everyone wants to be 'special'. Well, I hate to break it to you, but you are not special. Only God is. We are His Soldiers, here in His world to do His work.
If you have problems with your intelligence, I suggest you read a book, get a tutor or complain to your parents. There is little anyone here can do for you. We are not going to coddle you.

[James Hutchins]

Originally Posted by kdb176

I offered no opinions on your faith, whatsoever. What I did was point out inconsistencies in logic and statements that would tend to lead people to believe that you believe things that are contra-indicated by the statements of your faith. I am aware that you do not care in the slightest what I believe.

If you think we are uncaring heathens, why not just say you hate God and be done with it?
How can we have contradicting statements, with you being the judge and all the while, you believing no one cares that you are bad mouthing Christianity?

[Gandalf]

Ok, if I may point a few things out... and let me start with this. I was born on Fort Hood, to Christian parents. Moved to Virginia shortly thereafter (as in, before I was two), and from there on, I was a part of the church. My dad went to Bible school, and challenged many a pastor (and usually won). I know the scripture fairly well, and I feel that I understand what God had in mind when He tells us He wants us to follow Him. With that said....

You're a lunatic. Why? Let's start:

1) "It is a "Role-Playing Game" for the computer, very similar to the well-known Satanic Dungeons & Dragons."

"Computer", being a digital medium that provides easy access to *all* content, not just what you want. Bear that in mind. There are a multitude of Christian games available for the computer, as well. And D&D? Please tell me you're joking. This is a bunch of nerds with pencils, paper, and dice, and you're going to tag them as "satanic"?? This is role-playing, not Ouija. That's like me saying what you do for recreation is an abomination to God's will. Ridiculous, right?

2) "You can pick various "races" for your character, including several demonic looking characters called "elves". With their pointed ears and eerie non-human appearances, it allows children to pretend they are a demon themselves."
So Legolas was also a demon? If I recall correctly, Lord of the Rings was a story of great peril and tribulation against the evil of the world, a story of friendship, fellowship (you guys should be intimately familiar with that one), and the battle between right and wrong. You guys should love that story! I know I do, as does everybody I know. Also, wasn't it Jesus who said Jews and Gentiles alike were welcome into His kingdom? Also, "Man looks at the outside, but the Lord looks at the heart"? That ring a bell? Not judging a book by its cover? Any of this ringing a bell?

3) "The game is chockful of blasphemous magic and witchcraft."
Name one fantasy game that isn't. That's the point. It's intentionally set in a very different reality from our own. If you draw parallels, that's your problem, not mine.

"The player is able to perform a variety of spells such as hurling fire from one's hands, turning oneself invisible, forcing others' against their will to obey and listen to the character, and conjuring up demons from Hell to fight for the player."

Call me crazy, but I think the idea of hurling fire from my hands is pretty freaking sweet. "Forcing" others? Speechcraft, or in reality, would be known as "Are you a nice person?" Even in the game, Conjuration is considered a "black art", so why are you making a fuss? The game allows it, but by no means encourages it.

" In fact, magic and witchcraft are a major part of the game and it's difficult to play the game without resorting to these Satanic means."

Yeah, well, my character is an assassin (meaning I kill bad people that the officials are too scared to deal with), so my array of magic is fairly limited... mostly my magic is used to heal myself in the event my sneaking fails me. Doesn't seem so demonic, does it?

4) "The game makes no mention of God or Jesus Christ, instead it pushes a mythology of "Nine gods". You can go to heretical chapels and actually pray to these gods in this game and they heal you!"

Greek mythos has a dozen gods, and you're getting riled up over a game? Give it a few minutes, let the absurdity sink in.

5) "There is a realm called "Oblivion" which is definitely just Hell with a different name. You are required to go through this Hell environment during the game."
.....and destroy, because they're the portals of Evil into the world. Seriously. Do your research next time. Didn't Jesus descend into Hell to battle Satan for the keys to eternal life?

6) "Thieving and stealing are promoted in the game. You are allowed to pickpocket other people and steal possessions. One questline of the game actually REWARDS the player for this sinful behavior!"

Yeah, it's called the "Thieves' Guild" for a reason. Oh, and if you aren't careful, the guards will catch you and throw you in jail. Action, reaction. You do bad, you get punished. Again, sound familiar?

7) "You can do quests for these demons called "Daedra". By doing these quests, these demons reward you. This tells our children that by serving demons they will get rewarded."

What was your motivation to become a pastor? Based on your knowledge of your subject matter, it clearly wasn't the proclaiming of the truth of the Bible. Go to work. You do what your boss asks you to, you get rewarded. It's life, get used to it.

8) "Alcohol in the form of beer, wine, and brandy is available to the player and can be drunk."

I'm tempted to not even say anything, but I have to. Jesus turned water into wine. Alcoholic drinks were the only safe drink in olden days, because it was sterile. Don't drink to excess. HUGE difference from "don't drink". Communion: bread and wine. Don't even start with alcohol. You have less of a case there than any other point you've provided.

9) "This game promotes astrology. Upon creating a character, you are forced to choose a "birthsign". More occult ideas pushed upon the impressionable player."

Once again, you're making a big deal over something happening in a game, yet ignoring the fact that it happens even more in reality. Open your eyes.

10) "There are vampires in the game and a few of them are portrayed as "good guys"."

Once again, you're judging a book by its cover. You should know better.


In summary: Oblivion is an incredible game. If you knew anything about the work required to create such a masterpiece, you'd know that. I'm a professional programmer by trade, and I can tell you, I am absolutely astonished at what that game pulls off. And I completely realize that: it's a game. You people go crazy about my virtual realms, but don't even bother to fix your real ones? You are among the biggest hypocrites I have ever seen. Lucky for you, it isn't my place to judge.

Two more things:
a) "BANNED from Landover -- Aeternal Damnation Assured"
*facepalm x2*

b) You can download The Elder Scrolls 2: Daggerfall for free! Legally! The series was so good, they're giving the older games away for free. Hmm...

[James Hutchins]

Originally Posted by Gandalf

Ok, if I may point a few things out........................................Absolut e Drivel .................................................. .................................................. .....

Try reading the thread a few times, this has all been fully explained.


And you are wrong....again. You are consistant, I'll give you that.

[kdb176]

At no time did I badmouth Christianity. I pointed out logical inconsistencies. Also, I am the one questioning my intelligence; you are. Again, you are attempting to make it look as if everything I saw is an attack. All that indicates is insecurity.

[kdb176]

I apologize for the typo. I intended to write "I am not the one questioning my intelligence..."

[James Hutchins]

Originally Posted by kdb176

At no time did I badmouth Christianity. I pointed out logical inconsistencies. Also, I am the one questioning my intelligence; you are. Again, you are attempting to make it look as if everything I saw is an attack. All that indicates is insecurity.

As we all are, I assure you.

Well that makes a lot of sense. Did you bother to read the complete thread before you began your vomit of absurdity?

[kdb176]

Please list the "absurd" things that I said. Calling a statement absurd is not really evidence that it is. On the other hand, detailed descriptions of logical fallacies are evidence of absurdity.

[Vainboy]

Im sorry but im goingt to have to repectfully disagree, i could understand and adult that has missed many generation would think this.
The fact is there are many games like this if you want to ban this type of game you mine as well chase after the whole RPg game catergory.

And also "doom" is crappy game and the combine shootings had nothing to do with this.
Ive herd so many things been blamed for the colombine shootings im sick of it.
Ive herd Marylin Manson Blamed for it.
Ive herd Judas Preist Blamed for it.
Ive Herd Grand theft auto blamed for it.
Heres the truth, two kids who had screwed up upbringing got and didn't find there lives worth anything, yet instead of takeing there lives they took others as well because they where angry at the world for the life they had.

People use things like colombine as ammo trying to put down something they dont like.
Parents need to stop blameing media and such for their childrens behavior.
instead of complaing about a taboo TV show, simply turn the TV off and control your kid yourself.


The Fact is that games dont leave impressions on kids as much claimed.
Ive played all the grand theft auto games over 72 hours on each game, yet i dont ever have the urge to do anything they do in those games.

Through life we develope our own intake on media, games and such, as people get older these things influence them less and less.
But i do agree a small child should not play games such as that or GTA, because they are much more impressionable.

[angels]

Originally Posted by Vanman118

Im sorry but im goingt to have to repectfully disagree, i could understand and adult that has missed many generation would think this.
The fact is there are many games like this if you want to ban this type of game you mine as well chase after the whole RPg game catergory.

And also "doom" is crappy game and the combine shootings had nothing to do with this.
Ive herd so many things been blamed for the colombine shootings im sick of it.
Ive herd Marylin Manson Blamed for it.
Ive herd Judas Preist Blamed for it.
Ive Herd Grand theft auto blamed for it.
Heres the truth, two kids who had screwed up upbringing got and didn't find there lives worth anything, yet instead of takeing there lives they took others as well because they where angry at the world for the life they had.

People use things like colombine as ammo trying to put down something they dont like.
Parents need to stop blameing media and such for their childrens behavior.
instead of complaing about a taboo TV show, simply turn the TV off and control your kid yourself.


The Fact is that games dont leave impressions on kids as much claimed.
Ive played all the grand theft auto games over 72 hours on each game, yet i dont ever have the urge to do anything they do in those games.

Through life we develope our own intake on media, games and such, as people get older these things influence them less and less.
But i do agree a small child should not play games such as that or GTA, because they are much more impressionable.

Yes they do. Actually Games do leave people with an urge to do evil.

[Nobar King]

Is your apostrophe key broken, boy? You can always steal from the comma key, like a dirty gypsy.

[Vainboy]

Originally Posted by angels

Yes they do. Actually Games do leave people with an urge to do evil.

How do you figure?
Their is a difference between games and reality, people can see that the things in these games are purely real, therefore its obvious people understand you cant do these things, if anything people are more wary from playing gta that if they shoot someone chances are they go to jail, these game actually teach lessons sometime.
the dont urge people to do evil, i never had the urge to do evil when i played ANY game.

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Originally Posted by Vainman

How do you figure?
Their is a difference between games and reality, people can see that the things in these games are purely real, therefore its obvious people understand you cant do these things, if anything people are more wary from playing gta that if they shoot someone chances are they go to jail, these game actually teach lessons sometime.
the dont urge people to do evil, i never had the urge to do evil when i played ANY game.

You could be lying to us. Satan often sends demon gametards here to try and trick us.

Jesus is hip to that slip.

[Vainboy]

Sir Exuse me but i never said i was from satan, as a matter of fact i made sure i never said anything about my religous views whatsoever.
You just assume that since im disagreeing with "gods will" that i am against it.
And i must say i am apauled the status i have been rewarded, im simply try to help you with insight.
I will not lie i am athest.
But even from a christian standpoint this is wrong.

As far as ive seen you are guilty of Judgeing me beforehand your own bible preaches against that,(although it contadicts that in many ways ass well).

As far as a Messenger from satan, lol
And i applaud a man of you "stature", useing imature insults such as "Gametards", your realy snetting up a good example for open mided christians!

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Please take a look at THIS sermon of mine on the topic of judging others. Everything we say and do can be backed up with Scripture, punk.

By the way, this is a Christian forum. Why are you here? Unsaved Not Welcome is our motto. And the Bible backs that up too!

[Vainboy]

Originally Posted by Pastor Ezekiel

Please take a look at THIS sermon of mine on the topic of judging others. Everything we say and do can be backed up with Scripture, punk.

By the way, this is a Christian forum. Why are you here? Unsaved Not Welcome is our motto. And the Bible backs that up too!

Once again sir i applauding your use insults, you sure make yourself look like a mature christian!
I do not wish to view your jaded view on an already out dated jaded book.
I wouldnt trust your scripture to mush sir, your being lied to, the people that claimed to write the books of the bible arnt even true and WANT you to challenge me on that, please do.
The fact is that anything that backs you up in "scripture" is contradicted in the very same book.

I am here simply gaining knowlage, i have my belifes, andd i belive that i must see all sides of a conflict that i am involved, and i must say you are giveing me a very bad view on christianity.
lol

[Rev. Jim Osborne]

Originally Posted by Vainman

The fact is that anything that backs you up in "scripture" is contradicted in the very same book.

I dare you to find a single instance of Biblical inconsistency!

[Vainboy]

Originally Posted by Rev. Jim Osborne

I dare you to find a single instance of Biblical inconsistency!

Why would you ask me that?
A even a common christian should at least know the contradictions.

The Life of Moses is writen as to be understood that moses himself wrote it.
This is stupid bullshit.
In the first place; the middle books of the Pentateuch, (Exodus, Leviticus, and Numbers: Genesis contains no mention of Moses), allude to Moses as in third person, as in "the Lord Spake unto Moses". Why the piffle would someone write a but about themselves entirely in third person?
It could be argued that he preferred to speak of himse;f in third person, though this habit is now well associated with megalomania, but this would make laughable such citations as Numbers 12:3 in which we read, "Now the man Moses was very meek above all of the men which were on the face of the earth." Apart form the absurdity of claiming to be meek in such a way as to assert superiority in meekness over all others, which is blantly contridictory.
We have to remember the commandingly authoritarian and bloody manner in which Moses is described, in almost everyother chapter, as being behaved.
This Gives us the Choice of raving solipsism and the falsest of modesty.

But perhaps Moses himself can be aquitted on these two charges, since he could hardly have managed the contortions of Deuteronomy. In that book there is an introduction of the subject. then an introductionof Moses himself in mid-speech, then a resumption of narritive by whoever is writing, then another speech by Moses, and then an account of the death, burial, and magnificence of Moses himself.

So apparently Moses himself wrote of his own death and burial.
THATS JUST STUPID.
Not to mention the vernacular used in the bible for said scriptures is many many, years later.

GE 1:11-12, 26-27 Trees were created before man was created.
GE 2:4-9 Man was created before trees were created.
GE 1:20-21, 26-27 Birds were created before man was created.
GE 2:7, 19 Man was created before birds were created.
GE 1:24-27 Animals were created before man was created.
GE 2:7, 19 Man was created before animals were created.
GE 1:26-27 Man and woman were created at the same time.
GE 2:7, 21-22 Man was created first, woman sometime later.
GE 1:28 God encourages reproduction.
LE 12:1-8 God requires purification rites following childbirth which, in effect, makes childbirth a sin. (Note: The period for purification following the birth of a daughter is twice that for a son.)
GE 1:31 God was pleased with his creation.
GE 6:5-6 God was not pleased with his creation.
(Note: That God should be displeased is inconsistent with the concept of omniscience.)
GE 2:4, 4:26, 12:8, 22:14-16, 26:25 God was already known as "the Lord" (Jahveh or Jehovah) much earlier than the time of Moses.
EX 6:2-3 God was first known as "the Lord" (Jahveh or Jehovah) at the time of the Egyptian Bondage, during the life of Moses.
GE 2:17 Adam was to die the very day that he ate the forbidden fruit.
GE 5:5 Adam lived 930 years