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Default Day 49. Numbers 31-33 - 10-23-2007, 04:46 PM

Numbers 31-33

Well, the children of Israel are nearing the end of the time in the wilderness. It's almost sad, but relief has got to be near.

We're 49 days into the study, we've seen a lot, but there is definately more to come.

One thing you will probably note is that in the Old Testament, the LORD is not as personal as today's preachers make Him out to be. Today, christianity is about your PERSONAL relationship with Christ. Back then, the LORD was ruler of a society. All the laws were for keeping the clan near to God. When God promised things to happen, only on very few occasions did he promise things to individuals (Caleb, Joshua, Moses, Abraham, Jacob, Noah) most of His promises were directed entirely towards the PEOPLE. If someone committed a sin, there was a possibility they would be cut out of the people. If a person caused the people to sin, he would be cut out. When Jesus came and made the relationship with God PERSONAL He said something similar. Matthew 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

That's the same concept as Exodus 31:14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.

Read how the Matthew verse says, "it is porfitable for thee that ONE OF THY MEMBERS SHOULD PERISH." A member of the congregation? It is the exact same concept, except currently, we are dealing with a PERSONAL God, instead of the COMMUNITY God.

So let's begin todays reading. Today we get:
  • God orders the destruction of the Midianites
  • The offerings after the one sided battle
  • Gad and Reuben want to stay behind
  • The entirety of the wandering

Numbers 31

God said;

2 Avenge the children of Israel of the Midianites: afterward shalt thou be gathered unto thy people.

3 And Moses spake unto the people, saying, Arm some of yourselves unto the war, and let them go against the Midianites, and avenge the LORD of Midian.


Go kill the Midianites! Oh, and afterwards, you, MOSES will die.

God tells Moses to take a thousand men of each tribe, (2 tribes of Joseph) and take Phinehas (they guy yesterday who threw the javelin through the man and the Midianite woman.)

7 And they warred against the Midianites, as the LORD commanded Moses; and they slew all the males.

That's the way to wage war. When you go in, you don't try to spread democracy. If you want to win, you kill all the males. Not some of them, not most of them, you go in and kill them all! You don't worry about "stability in the region" you go in and take it all! Ok, so today that's known as genocide, but if you don't want an INSURGENCY, you kill them all.

9 And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods.

10 And they burnt all their cities wherein they dwelt, and all their goodly castles, with fire.

11 And they took all the spoil, and all the prey, both of men and of beasts.


Then, you take all the women captive, and the children, and all the livestock. After that, you go through each house and pillage like you are a pirate!

Then, the victoriously returning marauding horde brought everything in front of Moses.

14 And Moses was wroth with the officers of the host, with the captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, which came from the battle.

15 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?


Moses was kind of pissed because, after all, it was the Midianite women who caused the men to fall to whoredomes which brought about the plague recently.

17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.


Kill all the baby boys, and women who aren't virgins, but save the virgins for yourselves.

Then they are commanded to purify themselves on the third and seventh day (remember the red heifer?)

22 Only the gold, and the silver, the brass, the iron, the tin, and the lead,

23 Every thing that may abide the fire, ye shall make it go through the fire, and it shall be clean: nevertheless it shall be purified with the water of separation: and all that abideth not the fire ye shall make go through the water.


Purify all the metal by melting it. Purify wood by washing it.

26 Take the sum of the prey that was taken, both of man and of beast, thou, and Eleazar the priest, and the chief fathers of the congregation:

27 And divide the prey into two parts; between them that took the war upon them, who went out to battle, and between all the congregation:


So the spoils are divided in half, the 12,000 men get half, and the other 2 million people get half.

28 And levy a tribute unto the LORD of the men of war which went out to battle: one soul of five hundred, both of the persons, and of the beeves, and of the asses, and of the sheep:

This was the total booty.

675,000 sheep
72,000 beeves (cows)
61,000 asses
32,000 women who hadn't had sex with men

Half of these went to the 12,000 fighters, half to the congregation.

The LORD's tribute (going to the Levites) was:

675 sheep
72 beeves
61 asses
32 women

(Moses also took 1 in 500 of the peoples offering, which is why the number for the Levites was 1/1000 and not 1/500)

Then the officers of the 12,000 offered a tribute to the LORD.

52 And all the gold of the offering that they offered up to the LORD, of the captains of thousands, and of the captains of hundreds, was sixteen thousand seven hundred and fifty shekels.


16,750 shekels worth of gold. PRAISE JESUS!!!

Numbers 32

1 Now the children of Reuben and the children of Gad had a very great multitude of cattle: and when they saw the land of Jazer, and the land of Gilead, that, behold, the place was a place for cattle;


Reuben and Gad had lots and lots of cattle, and they thought the land they were in was better for cattle than would be the promised land, so they asked to stay behind.

This kind of pissed Moses off.

6 And Moses said unto the children of Gad and to the children of Reuben, Shall your brethren go to war, and shall ye sit here?

Moses reminded them of the last time they were close to going in, and that some people said no (except for Caleb and Joshua) so God made them wander for 40 years. And that no one over 20 would live to go in.

Moses also thought that these people staying behind would discourage the rest of the people from going and conquering the land of Canaan, so he made a deal with Reuben and Gad.

They said they would build cities for their families where they were, and would go and fight and then come back to their families.

17 But we ourselves will go ready armed before the children of Israel, until we have brought them unto their place: and our little ones shall dwell in the fenced cities because of the inhabitants of the land.

18 We will not return unto our houses, until the children of Israel have inherited every man his inheritance.

19 For we will not inherit with them on yonder side Jordan, or forward; because our inheritance is fallen to us on this side Jordan eastward.


PRAISE JESUS!!!

Moses said, if they would do that, then God wouldn't be mad at them for it.

Gad, Reuben, and half of Manasseh then built some cites on the east of Jordan.

Numbers 33

1 These are the journeys of the children of Israel, which went forth out of the land of Egypt with their armies under the hand of Moses and Aaron.

If you really want to travel around in the wilderness from Egypt to Canaan (Israel) for 40 years. This is how to do it.
  1. Ramses to
  2. Succoth
  3. Etham
  4. Pihahiroth
  5. Marah
  6. Elim (12 fountains, 70 palm trees)
  7. Red Sea
  8. Wilderness of Sin
  9. Dophkah
  10. Alush
  11. Rephidim (no water)
  12. Sinai
  13. Kibrothhattaavah
  14. Hazeroth
  15. Rithmah
  16. Rimmonparez
  17. Libnah
  18. Rissah
  19. Kehelathah
  20. mount Shapher
  21. Haradah
  22. Makheloth
  23. Tahath
  24. Tarah
  25. Mithcah
  26. Hashmonah
  27. Moseroth
  28. Benejaakan
  29. Horhagidgad
  30. Jotbathah
  31. Ebronah
  32. Eziongaber
  33. Kadesh
  34. mount Hor (where Aaron died at age 123)
  35. Zalmonah
  36. Punon
  37. Oboth
  38. Ijeabarim (or Iim)
  39. Dibongad
  40. Almondiblathaim
  41. Abarim
  42. the plains of Moab by Jordan near Jericho

That's a good field trip.

God then said, when you go into the land He promised:

52 Then ye shall drive out all the inhabitants of the land from before you, and destroy all their pictures, and destroy all their molten images, and quite pluck down all their high places:

53 And ye shall dispossess the inhabitants of the land, and dwell therein: for I have given you the land to possess it.


Then divide the land up by lot by tribe.

BUT

55 But if ye will not drive out the inhabitants of the land from before you; then it shall come to pass, that those which ye let remain of them shall be pricks in your eyes, and thorns in your sides, and shall vex you in the land wherein ye dwell.

56 Moreover it shall come to pass, that I shall do unto you, as I thought to do unto them.


Remind you of anything? Perhaps, modern day Israel where they didn't kill all the Palestinians when they took it back over and they've got a buttload of suicide bombers and people who think that the land belongs to them.

When you completely kill the previous inhabitants, you don't have to worry about people wanting "their" land back.

So what have we learned today?

1. To win a war, don't worry about "hearts and minds", kill all the men, male children and women who aren't virgins. Then you don't have to worry about "hearts and minds". Genocide is just another term for all out victory.

2. E-GAD, and Reuben wanted to live on the east.

3. If you have 40 years and want to try to recreate the journey, you'll probably die before you get the opportunity to hit the rock twice.

YIC
V
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Default Re: Day 49. Numbers 31-33 - 10-23-2007, 04:59 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother V View Post
Numbers 31-33

Well, the children of Israel are nearing the end of the time in the wilderness. It's almost sad, but relief has got to be near.

We're 49 days into the study, we've seen a lot, but there is definately more to come.

One thing you will probably note is that in the Old Testament, the LORD is not as personal as today's preachers make Him out to be. Today, christianity is about your PERSONAL relationship with Christ. Back then, the LORD was ruler of a society. All the laws were for keeping the clan near to God. When God promised things to happen, only on very few occasions did he promise things to individuals (Caleb, Joshua, Moses, Abraham, Jacob, Noah) most of His promises were directed entirely towards the PEOPLE.
And when He did have a personal relationship with someone (Moses), He still got mad at him for not being obedient enough and cursed him to die in the wilderness. Moral of the story is: um, obey God. A lot.
Quote:
8. Wilderness of Sin
Seems oddly appropriate.
Quote:
55 But if ye will not drive out the inhabitants of the land from before you; then it shall come to pass, that those which ye let remain of them shall be pricks in your eyes, and thorns in your sides, and shall vex you in the land wherein ye dwell.

56 Moreover it shall come to pass, that I shall do unto you, as I thought to do unto them.


Remind you of anything? Perhaps, modern day Israel where they didn't kill all the Palestinians when they took it back over and they've got a buttload of suicide bombers and people who think that the land belongs to them.
Palestinians really are pricks.


O Lord our God, help us to tear their soldiers to bloody shreds with our shells; help us to cover their smiling fields with the pale forms of their patriot dead; help us to drown the thunder of the guns with the shrieks of their wounded, writhing in pain; help us to lay waste their humble homes with a hurricane of fire; help us to wring the hearts of their unoffending widows with unavailing grief; help us to turn them out roofless with little children to wander unfriended the wastes of their desolated land in rags and hunger and thirst, sports of the sun flames of summer and the icy winds of winter, broken in spirit, worn with travail, imploring Thee for the refuge of the grave and denied it--for our sakes who adore Thee, Lord, blast their hopes, blight their lives, protract their bitter pilgrimage, make heavy their steps, water their way with their tears, stain the white snow with the blood of their wounded feet! We ask it, in the spirit of love, of Him Who is the Source of Love, and Who is the ever-faithful refuge and friend of all that are sore beset and seek His aid with humble and contrite hearts. Amen.


God being truth, justice, goodness, beauty, power, and life, man is falsehood, iniquity, evil, ugliness, impotence, and death. God being master, man is the slave. Incapable of finding justice, truth, and eternal life by his own effort, he can attain them only through a divine revelation... he who desires to worship God must harbor no childish illusions about the matter, but bravely renounce his liberty and humanity.
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Question in numbers 31:17-18 - 02-08-2008, 07:34 PM

In numbers 31:17-18, God told the army through moses to kill all the women and children who have had intimate relations with others, but, he said, "keep alive for yourselves all the young girls who have not had sexual intercourse" . now some people would interpret that as; God wasn't telling the army to keep them for sex, but that they were just slaves and to be raised up right without fornication. is that a right interpretion. Was God telling them that could do whatever they wanted with the young girls as someone would with their wife ?
please provide proof with your answer because my faith is on the borderline of abandonment.
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Default Re: in numbers 31:17-18 - 02-08-2008, 07:55 PM

Number 31:35 And thirty and two thousand persons in all, of women that had not known man by lying with him.

The people could do with the captives whatever they chose. If a person chose to use the captive as a sex slave that would be perfectly acceptable. If they wanted to just see how long the girl could survive without food; that's just as acceptable. The captive girls were just spoils of war.

This war was against the Midianites. The object of the war was to completely destroy them. It wasn't to change the "hearts and minds" it was genocide.

There's two ways to destroy a race.

1. Kill them out of existence.
2. Breed them out of existence.

By killing all the males and women who had been with males; they ended the "purity" of the Midianite race. After one generation you are left with only half breeds, then quarter, eighth, sixteenth (assuming the halfbreeds don't breed)... until what was Midianite doesn't even resemble their great great great grandfathers.

Midianite "people" don't really matter anyway. Look at the way the spoil was listed.

32 And the booty, being the rest of the prey which the men of war had caught, was six hundred thousand and seventy thousand and five thousand sheep,

33 And threescore and twelve thousand beeves,

34 And threescore and one thousand asses,

35 And thirty and two thousand persons in all, of women that had not known man by lying with him.


Which was most important?

Sheep are listed first, then beeves (cattle) then asses; finally, the women are listed.

Hope this helps
YIC
V


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Default Re: in numbers 31:17-18 - 02-08-2008, 07:57 PM

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Originally Posted by moabite View Post
In numbers 31:17-18, God told the army through moses to kill all the women and children who have had intimate relations with others, but, he said, "keep alive for yourselves all the young girls who have not had sexual intercourse" . now some people would interpret that as; God wasn't telling the army to keep them for sex, but that they were just slaves and to be raised up right without fornication. is that a right interpretion. Was God telling them that could do whatever they wanted with the young girls as someone would with their wife ?
please provide proof with your answer because my faith is on the borderline of abandonment.
There's no "interpretation" to be done. The Bible says, keep alive for yourselves. There is no scriptural justification for insisting that they were "just slaves and to be raised up right without fornication".

Sex is only for procreation, so there is also no reason to assume that any of the men went in unto any of the captive girls until they were breeding age. Therefore, there was probably no pedophilia here.

Scripture doesn't go into detail as to the fate of these girls, but the most reasonable conclusion is that once they were old enough, the men bred with them, and their offspring were integrated into Hebrew society.

I hope this helps.

Pastor Billy-Reuben


Upon request I will cite scripture for all these facts in God's Holy Word.

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Default Re: in numbers 31:17-18 - 02-08-2008, 08:19 PM

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Originally Posted by Pastor Billy-Reuben View Post
Scripture doesn't go into detail as to the fate of these girls, but the most reasonable conclusion is that once they were old enough, the men bred with them, and their offspring were integrated into Hebrew society.
Their tainted Midianite blood would certainly explain why the Jews became Christ killers a couple of millenia later. The Midianites were a violent bunch, and the world is much better off since Phinehas killed them off in Numbers 31, and Gideon did the same a few hundred years later in Judges 6.



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Default Re: in numbers 31:17-18 - 02-08-2008, 08:52 PM

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Originally Posted by Pastor Billy-Reuben View Post

Sex is only for procreation, so there is also no reason to assume that any of the men went in unto any of the captive girls until they were breeding age. Therefore, there was probably no pedophilia here.

Pastor Billy-Reuben
Brother Pastor BR,

I believe these girls would have fallen under the classification of "Concubine". They wouldn't have the full rights of a "wife" but they would have been fair game for their master/husband "going in unto".

As a "concubine" they would have been one man's property and would not have been a "community hole".

That's just my opinion though.

YIC
V


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Default Re: in numbers 31:17-18 - 02-09-2008, 02:45 AM

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Originally Posted by Ahimaaz Smith View Post
Their tainted Midianite blood would certainly explain why the Jews became Christ killers a couple of millenia later. The Midianites were a violent bunch, and the world is much better off since Phinehas killed them off in Numbers 31, and Gideon did the same a few hundred years later in Judges 6.
It's a shame when the same race of people has to be exterminated repeatedly.

Like cockroaches, I swear!


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Default Re: in numbers 31:17-18 - 02-09-2008, 05:02 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JennyD View Post
It's a shame when the same race of people has to be exterminated repeatedly.

Like cockroaches, I swear!
Or Edomites.



Pour out thy fury upon the heathen that know thee not, and upon the families that call not on thy name.... Jeremiah 10:25
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Default Re: Day 49. Numbers 31-33 - 02-23-2008, 03:23 AM

There's something else in today's reading I want to call attention to.

I'm sure everybody remembers the Lord's servant Balaam from Numbers 22-24, back on day 46. He's the guy that Barak sent to curse the Israelites. Instead of cursing the Israelites like he was hired to do, he did as the Lord commanded and blessed them three times. Whatever happened to that guy?

Numbers 31:8 And they slew the kings of Midian, beside the rest of them that were slain; namely, Evi, and Rekem, and Zur, and Hur, and Reba, five kings of Midian: Balaam also the son of Beor they slew with the sword.

Ouch. That's what he gets for being a Midianite.


Upon request I will cite scripture for all these facts in God's Holy Word.

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Default Re: Day 49. Numbers 31-33 - 05-21-2010, 09:10 PM

Numbers 31:8 And they slew the kings of Midian, beside the rest of them that were slain; namely, Evi, and Rekem, and Zur, and Hur, and Reba, five kings of Midian: Balaam also the son of Beor they slew with the sword.

So, is Reba Macintyre a Midianite?

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