[Pastor Ezekiel]

Originally Posted by Sionisx2

Tell you what, if apparently all illness is caused by Demons or God, then go over to some fast food joint, (or make one yourself) buy a hamburger and leave it out in the open for about 3 months. After it is dutifully green and white-ish colored, eat it. Because if you have strong faith, you won't get sick.
And no, it's not because of Demons.

Matthew 4:7, Luke 4:12
Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

[Mrs. Mary Whitford]

Originally Posted by Sionisx2

Looks interesting, is it built yet?

Crucifix Tower is projected to be completed by June 2009 (there were some union issues, but that's been sorted out by going to a completely non-union work force), but the rest is finished and quite beautiful. My husband, Mr. Whitford, hasn't decided if we'll move there when (or if, considering we are in End Times and Jesus could return any second now) he retires, or if he'll keep the house here in Leviticus Acres.

[Sionisx2]

Ah, sounds great. One question though

or if, considering we are in End Times and Jesus could return any second now

I know our Lord could return at any given moment, but do you think we're in the end times? I'm not objecting nor agreeing, merely wondering why you say this.

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Originally Posted by Sionisx2

Ah, sounds great. One question though

or if, considering we are in End Times and Jesus could return any second now

I know our Lord could return at any given moment, but do you think we're in the end times? I'm not objecting nor agreeing, merely wondering why you say this.

I check in with THIS Godly website every day. You should too!

[Brother Habbo]

Originally Posted by Sionisx2

Tell you what, if apparently all illness is caused by Demons or God, then go over to some fast food joint, (or make one yourself) buy a hamburger and leave it out in the open for about 3 months. After it is dutifully green and white-ish colored, eat it. Because if you have strong faith, you won't get sick.
And no, it's not because of Demons.

Your argument is full of fail.

My stomach rejecting rancid meat isn't proof that germs made me sick. It's just proof that my stomach isn't as strong as my faith.

If you drink drano and it makes you sick, is that proof of germ theory?

[Sionisx2]

nay, the chemicals in drano (acids) combine with the acids in your stomach (hyrdochloric acid + drano acid = wayyyy to much acid eating your stomach, as it is no bacteria or germs would apply. way to fail when it pertains to this debate.

2. It proves that my stomach isn't as strong as my faith.

So, in other words, your stomach does indeed react to the rancid meat, which implies that your body is reacting to the germs, bacteria, and fungi, which you ingested from the rancid meat, therefor making you sick.

There are, however, medical mysteries (and miracles) out there that are unexplainable. There are faults to the germ theory (which is why it's still a theory, and not a law) however, you cannot deny that ingested or coming into direct contact with certain bacteria or other hazardous organisms will not cause you bodily harm.

I believe that praying does indeed help the body and soul recover from illness, but Tylenal certainty doesn't hurt either.

[Brother Habbo]

Originally Posted by Sionisx2

nay, the chemicals in drano (acids) combine with the acids in your stomach (hyrdochloric acid + drano acid = wayyyy to much acid eating your stomach, as it is no bacteria or germs would apply. way to fail when it pertains to this debate.

2. It proves that my stomach isn't as strong as my faith.

So, in other words, your stomach does indeed react to the rancid meat, which implies that your body is reacting to the germs, bacteria, and fungi, which you ingested from the rancid meat, therefor making you sick.

You are applying a double standard here. You believe that the chemicals in the drano are enough to make us sick -- no germs required. Rancidity is also enough to make you sick. Why do you have to add germs into this equation when they aren't required? Have you ever heard of Occam's razor?

[Brother Temperance]

Originally Posted by Sionisx2

They don't even know the money is on the table.

How don't they? This thread is right here on Jesus' internet for anyone to see. Why, we're in google's top 10 for Germunists!

Originally Posted by Sionisx2

Tell you what, if apparently all illness is caused by Demons or God, then go over to some fast food joint, (or make one yourself) buy a hamburger and leave it out in the open for about 3 months. After it is dutifully green and white-ish colored, eat it. Because if you have strong faith, you won't get sick.
And no, it's not because of Demons.

I've got equally strong proof that disease isn't caused by germs: go over to some fast food joint, (or make one yourself) buy a hamburger and leave it out in the open for about 3 months. After it is dutifully green and white-ish colored, eat it. Because if you have strong faith, you won't get sick.
And no, it's not because of germs.

See how weak your argument is?

[Stranger]

Just to let you know, your assumption of the Germ Theory is wrong, it is not stated that all diseases are caused by these mircoorganism, there are some other things that cause it, like mutated protein in the brain of a cow that when eaten (it is used with many other non-useable item for humans to feed cows) by another cow will develop Mad Cow Disease. But thats just one example I know of. So you might want to change your terms for getting the $250,000,000. Just a thought.

[SalvationSeeker]

Originally Posted by Sionisx2

nay, the chemicals in drano (acids) combine with the acids in your stomach (hyrdochloric acid + drano acid = wayyyy to much acid eating your stomach, as it is no bacteria or germs would apply. way to fail when it pertains to this debate.

Shows that you don't really know what you're talking about..
"Drano" isn't the name of a compound (There's no such thing as 'drano acid'), nor is it even an acid..
It's a base.


BTW Why do you think the burger becomes all mis-colored if left out like that?
It's because a whole load of demons looking for a home have moved in, of course!
So obviously, eating it is a very bad idea, as those demons will end up in your colon if you do.

[Sionisx2]

Originally Posted by Brother Temperance

I've got equally strong proof that disease isn't caused by germs: go over to some fast food joint, (or make one yourself) buy a hamburger and leave it out in the open for about 3 months. After it is dutifully green and white-ish colored, eat it. Because if you have strong faith, you won't get sick.
And no, it's not because of God.

See how weak your argument is?

Fixed it for you.

To say that by eating that rotting burger, and the amazing amount of fungi and such that's on it isn't a direct result of your being sick, is borderline insanity, (much like these forums )or ignorance, sorry.

Originally Posted by SalvationSeeker

Shows that you don't really know what you're talking about..
"Drano" isn't the name of a compound (There's no such thing as 'drano acid'), nor is it even an acid..
It's a base.

Sorry, I mistook drano for a sulfuric drain cleaner.

Originally Posted by SalvationSeeker

BTW Why do you think the burger becomes all mis-colored if left out like that?
It's because a whole load of demons looking for a home have moved in, of course!
So obviously, eating it is a very bad idea, as those demons will end up in your colon if you do.

Or, you know, it could be because the moisture of the burger is a great place for mold spores to thrive. (OMG! Science! RUN!!!)


"Mold forms very easily in damp and wet conditions; especially on organic materials or products containing wet cellulose and that are low in nitrogen. The mold produces a kind of toxin known as mycotoxin, which is very harmful when consumed."

But wait! That's science... and we don't accept science here. I'm finished even viewing these forums. It's ridiculous.

[JennyD]

Originally Posted by Sionisx2

But wait! That's science... and we don't accept science here. I'm finished even viewing these forums. It's ridiculous.

Science in itself is not at all ridiculous, and we certainly embrace it here. Sure, things follow physical laws, and those laws may be deduced through observation.

However, God creates those Laws. They are spelled out in the Bible! There is nothing wrong with observing how God's Laws play out in nature and explaining that beauty and wonder to the ignorant!

Science becomes ridiculous when it becomes a religion; when people believe Science created the universe instead of God, for example, or when they believe that a little voltage detector can determine whether they are possessed by demons left behind by Lord Xenu, or when they misguidedly put their faith in human science instead of the study of God's Laws and deduction of solutions therefrom.

Do you see the difference now?

[jessev]

Just to note something. If you're talking about Scientology, I would hardly consider that a religion based on science. It was based on a book written by a novelist. I've read some of what's in their scientology book and gave me a chuckle. It makes very little sense to me. But from what I've observed, when someone believes in something, (regardless of what it is) completely blindly, can be a potentially dangerous thing. For me, science has always been the yearning to understand the universe around us. And while science can't explain everything, of course. There are many things that science has been able to explain that would not have been known otherwise. Afterall, simply deducing an answer from something you see is an example of science. I agree that there are many who take science a little too seriously in that they put their entire belief on a particular theory on being correct, when it may not be. But understand this: a scientific theory is not just some random explanation for something. It's a tested hypothesis that has not shown to be incorrect yet. Now I may be slightly unknowing on the specifics. But I'm not sure how many physical laws are explained much in the bible. Though, I know of a fair number of things that would appear to not agree with the observed natural laws of physics within the book.

Originally Posted by JennyD

Science in itself is not at all ridiculous, and we certainly embrace it here. Sure, things follow physical laws, and those laws may be deduced through observation.

However, God creates those Laws. They are spelled out in the Bible! There is nothing wrong with observing how God's Laws play out in nature and explaining that beauty and wonder to the ignorant!

Science becomes ridiculous when it becomes a religion; when people believe Science created the universe instead of God, for example, or when they believe that a little voltage detector can determine whether they are possessed by demons left behind by Lord Xenu, or when they misguidedly put their faith in human science instead of the study of God's Laws and deduction of solutions therefrom.

Do you see the difference now?

[MrMannnly]

Originally Posted by jessev

Just to note something. If you're talking about Scientology, I would hardly consider that a religion based on science. It was based on a book written by a novelist.

If it wasn't based on science, then why would it be called scientology? It's the same root word, back to the Latin scientia, meaning "to know". Scientologists believe that their religion is correct. So do scientists. That's how religions work.

Originally Posted by jessev

I've read some of what's in their scientology book and gave me a chuckle. It makes very little sense to me.

Same here. I once picked up a NIV Version Bible and it had the same effect. Most pagan religions do that

Originally Posted by jessev

But from what I've observed, when someone believes in something, (regardless of what it is) completely blindly, can be a potentially dangerous thing.

Thank God for faith! But blind beliefs, like those held by Catholics, Jews, Mormons, Scientists/Scientologists, etc are certainly dangerous. Their lack of the guiding hand of the Holy Ghost is visibly lacking in their lives.

Originally Posted by jessev

For me, science has always been the yearning to understand the universe around us. And while science can't explain everything, of course. There are many things that science has been able to explain that would not have been known otherwise.

So is the study of the Bible; are you saying that when we study the Bible we are employing "science"? When a child is curious about the bug on the wall and pops it into his mouth, is that science? Are we making up our own definitions here?

Originally Posted by jessev

Afterall, simply deducing an answer from something you see is an example of science. I agree that there are many who take science a little too seriously in that they put their entire belief on a particular theory on being correct, when it may not be.

Anyone who puts their faith in "science" instead of an omnipotent God is simply out of their minds; I cant think of a gentler way to put it. Honestly, if you were to try to guess what's in a box, would you blindly guess, or would you ask the person who put it in there? Now that is a reasonable theory in any dimension

Originally Posted by jessev

But understand this: a scientific theory is not just some random explanation for something. It's a tested hypothesis that has not shown to be incorrect yet.

This is the worst fallacy that "scientists" roll out every so often, and I am sick and tired of it. I can say that the moon has invisible pink unicorns running around and call that a scientific theory--it hasn't been proven wrong yet. It's absurd, and it's a slap in the face to a God who has given you a mind of reason.

Originally Posted by jessev

Now I may be slightly unknowing on the specifics. But I'm not sure how many physical laws are explained much in the bible. Though, I know of a fair number of things that would appear to not agree with the observed natural laws of physics within the book.

Everything that we ever needed to know about the Universe (which, by the way, is a combination of Uni- meaning "one" and -verse, meaning word... ONE WORD, think about it--Genesis 1:1) is in the Bible. There is nothing in there that requires the billions of dollars that the Obamania administration is just funneling into the groveling throats of greedy scientists. Scientists just spent something like $150 billion of our taxpayer dollars on a giant merry-go-round to find the so-called "God Particle", and I only spent $200 on my Bible and I know that there isn't one. I can predict it now with 110% certainty and I didn't spend a fraction of what they spent! You want an economic savings plan for the U.S.A., well I just found one!

[Pastor Billy-Reuben]

Bump.

It has been almost four years, and still no serious challengers.

I think we can consider "germ theory" to be officially dead.

Take THAT, Satan!

Pastor Billy-Reuben

[napa valley nan]

whats your theories about the 'disease' of alchohol? My parents were both alholics for which reason I went to Alanon Anonymous, for the adult children of the alcoholic. they would always speak on 'the disease' of alcoholics and that's part what helped me forgive, but i go back / and / or forth on it. What does the alcoholic germ look like?

[Pastor Billy-Reuben]

Originally Posted by napa valley nan

whats your theories about the 'disease' of alchohol? My parents were both alholics for which reason I went to Alanon Anonymous, for the adult children of the alcoholic. they would always speak on 'the disease' of alcoholics and that's part what helped me forgive, but i go back / and / or forth on it. What does the alcoholic germ look like?

Excellent point, Nan.

Alcoholism is strongly associated with the sin of drunkenness, so there's yet another heavy point in favor of the sin theory of disease.

Unless some germ theory believer wants to claim the prize by explaining which microbe is responsible for alcoholism.

Pastor Billy-Reuben

[Little Donkey]

Originally Posted by Pastor Billy-Reuben

Alcoholism is strongly associated with the sin of drunkenness, so there's yet another heavy point in favor of the sin theory of disease.

For the most part, I don't believe in any so-called "Theories". However, Pastor if you call it a Sin Theory then I must admit an exception. The Sin Theory explains all cases of death. People are born with sin and God will smite them unless they become Saved. But even among the Saved, people tend to get forgetful and accumulate minor sins without regular cleansing and forgiveness. It only takes one tiny, tiny sin compounded over many years for God to have no choice but to smite thee down.

[napa valley nan]

Originally Posted by Pastor Billy-Reuben

Excellent point, Nan.

no I am saying not Yes or No..I was asking about your thoughts on the Disease of Alcoholis .

It was easier to forgive /but not forget/ my 'accidents' etcetra and bad memories when I got told my parents were victim of a DISEASE called alcoholism..but I always wondered Did someone put guns to their heads and MAKE THEM drink like they did No I don't think so.

But it is harder to forgive if we are asked to say Yes, there was no 'disease' they were just selfish mess piles. Doctors say it is a disease but I do not know. Thats why I wondere if they found microbes making them and other people drink

[Pastor Billy-Reuben]

Originally Posted by Little Donkey

For the most part, I don't believe in any so-called "Theories". However, Pastor if you call it a Sin Theory then I must admit an exception. The Sin Theory explains all cases of death. People are born with sin and God will smite them unless they become Saved. But even among the Saved, people tend to get forgetful and accumulate minor sins without regular cleansing and forgiveness. It only takes one tiny, tiny sin compounded over many years for God to have no choice but to smite thee down.

Friend, the Bible and I disagree strongly with what I have bolded above.

Sin is a voluntary choice to rebel against God (Is 30:9). No one is born a sinner (Ezk 18:19-20), there are no such things as involuntary, compulsory, or accidental sins (Ezk 3:19, I Jn 3:4), and there is no such thing as irresistible temptation (I Cor 10:13).

Only unsaved people sin, and a Christian, once saved, never sins again. If you sin, it is proof that you are not saved. (I Jn 3:6-9)

The doctrine of "original sin" is a lie. It's just an excuse for people to avoid responsibility for their own sins. People try to say that they can't help but sin, and, pardon my French, but that's just a bunch of bull hockey. Anybody can avoid sin. All you have to do is not do it. I don't see what's so hard about that.

Pastor Billy-Reuben