[TraumaSandwhich]

Well thank you for deciding what my argument is(it was wrong but I appreciate the help) my argument was not that "God doesn't exist because the government has no record of him" nor where those examples used to disprove God in any way, if you had read the argument before you would see that I mention those four examples as proving myself as existing outside of me saying I do I did not claim that God does not exist because he is not apart of the draft. For the record there are atheist websites however I see no use in talking to people with eh exact same viewpoints as me in-fact there is a reason not to and it is called polarization. That means that when a group of like minded individuals talk together on a subject in which they all share the same opinion then they only increase their belief sin that and add to their bias I am trying to learn and lessen my biases so instead of being on an atheist website I am here.

[Dr Laurence Niles]

Originally Posted by TraumaSandwhich

Thank you for correcting me on that quote I thought it meant the bible. And just because the bible is Jesus' way of telling us his will it cannot be proof that he is who he says he is. If I say that I am a ten foot tall lava eating man(which I am not for the record) and I say well here is my proof that I am and I hand you a book and in that book it says that whatever I say is true, then does that make me a ten foot tall lava eating man?

I would ask you this: are you perfect? Well Jesus is. Is it more logical to trust a perfect being or a human being (flawed, like all of us)?

I mean no disrespect but Jesus created the whole world in seven days 6500 years ago (or so) so that you and I could live out our lives in fulfilment of His vision.

Do you really have the right to gainsay your creator?

YIC

[Alvin Moss]

Originally Posted by TraumaSandwhich

Well thank you for deciding what my argument is(it was wrong but I appreciate the help) my argument was not that "God doesn't exist because the government has no record of him" nor where those examples used to disprove God in any way, if you had read the argument before you would see that I mention those four examples as proving myself as existing outside of me saying I do I did not claim that God does not exist because he is not apart of the draft. For the record there are atheist websites however I see no use in talking to people with eh exact same viewpoints as me in-fact there is a reason not to and it is called polarization. That means that when a group of like minded individuals talk together on a subject in which they all share the same opinion then they only increase their belief sin that and add to their bias I am trying to learn and lessen my biases so instead of being on an atheist website I am here.

You talk like a Jesuit.

[TraumaSandwhich]

Originally Posted by Dr Laurence Niles

I would ask you this: are you perfect? Well Jesus is. Is it more logical to trust a perfect being or a human being (flawed, like all of us)?

I mean no disrespect but Jesus created the whole world in seven days 6500 years ago (or so) so that you and I could live out our lives in fulfilment of His vision.

Do you really have the right to gainsay your creator?

YIC

No I am not perfect but my point is you are saying the bible is proof because you believe what it says to be true. I don't believe that the historical Jesus(as in the person in the New Testament) was perfect either because I believe the bible to be false. But let's go ahead and for the sake of argument let's say I'm wrong and Jesus created the world the way it says in Genesis. Here are my questions

1. If it took 2 total days to build the earth then why did it take just one day to create the stars because the stars in the universe are vastly larger and measure in the trillions?

2. If you believe in the young earth theory(in other words that the earth is approx. 6,000 years old which it seems that you do but I may be wrong) then how do account for the universe being older, by billions of years, than that especially if God made the earth before the other planets and suns?

3. How was there light before the sun and the stars and if there was where did that light go? And if he had a form of light other than a star why make the stars at all?

[Alvin Moss]

Originally Posted by TraumaSandwhich

No I am not perfect but my point is you are saying the bible is proof because you believe what it says to be true. I don't believe that the historical Jesus(as in the person in the New Testament) was perfect either because I believe the bible to be false. But let's go ahead and for the sake of argument let's say I'm wrong and Jesus created the world the way it says in Genesis. Here are my questions

1. If it took 2 total days to build the earth then why did it take just one day to create the stars because the stars in the universe are vastly larger and measure in the trillions?

2. If you believe in the young earth theory(in other words that the earth is approx. 6,000 years old which it seems that you do but I may be wrong) then how do account for the universe being older, by billions of years, than that especially if God made the earth before the other planets and suns?

3. How was there light before the sun and the stars and if there was where did that light go? And if he had a form of light other than a star why make the stars at all?

You make many assumptions and all are incorrect.

1-Full of misconceptions, falsehoods and ridiculous assumptions.
2-The Earth is slightly older than 6,000 years and so is everything else- more of your foolish jumping to conclusions.
3-Your points and questions about why God does what God pleases to do have no bearing on your arguement at all and amount to mindless jibberish.

Your foolish pontificating passes as intellectual intercourse among your unsaved Democrat friends, but saved Christians cannot be so easily fooled.

You will have your part in the Lake of Fire that burns eternally, unless you get right with Jesus, which I shall pray for, but will likely not occur.

[Dr Laurence Niles]

Originally Posted by TraumaSandwhich

No I am not perfect but my point is you are saying the bible is proof because you believe what it says to be true. I don't believe that the historical Jesus(as in the person in the New Testament) was perfect either because I believe the bible to be false. But let's go ahead and for the sake of argument let's say I'm wrong and Jesus created the world the way it says in Genesis. Here are my questions

1. If it took 2 total days to build the earth then why did it take just one day to create the stars because the stars in the universe are vastly larger and measure in the trillions?

2. If you believe in the young earth theory(in other words that the earth is approx. 6,000 years old which it seems that you do but I may be wrong) then how do account for the universe being older, by billions of years, than that especially if God made the earth before the other planets and suns?

3. How was there light before the sun and the stars and if there was where did that light go? And if he had a form of light other than a star why make the stars at all?

1: Stars are very simple. Just a massive amount of hydrogen: one proton. The Earth is full of people, foxes, sea snakes and scorpions. The Earth is far more complicated.

2: The universe appears older. But science cannot prove things 100% as it is by definition tentative.

3: Jesus said "let there be light". He can create light. Heck, people can create light: it does not all come from stars. As to where did the light go? The obvious answer is that it is the CMB. But we cannot say that for sure because that is a departure from the Bible and that is never sound logic.

YIC

[TraumaSandwhich]

Originally Posted by Alvin Moss

You make many assumptions and all are incorrect.

1-Full of misconceptions, falsehoods and ridiculous assumptions.
2-The Earth is slightly older than 6,000 years and so is everything else- more of your foolish jumping to conclusions.
3-Your points and questions about why God does what God pleases to do have no bearing on your arguement at all and amount to mindless jibberish.

Your foolish pontificating passes as intellectual intercourse among your unsaved Democrat friends, but saved Christians cannot be so easily fooled.

You will have your part in the Lake of Fire that burns eternally, unless you get right with Jesus, which I shall pray for, but will likely not occur.

One I'm a Republican and two if you speak to literally anyone who knows anything about the universe (religious people included) will say that the universe is not 6,000 years old but more in the area of billions of years old. And if my first point is full of falsehoods misconceptions and ridiculous assumptions then enlighten me as to what they are.

[TraumaSandwhich]

Originally Posted by Dr Laurence Niles

1: Stars are very simple. Just a massive amount of hydrogen: one proton. The Earth is full of people, foxes, sea snakes and scorpions. The Earth is far more complicated.

2: The universe appears older. But science cannot prove things 100% as it is by definition tentative.

3: Jesus said "let there be light". He can create light. Heck, people can create light: it does not all come from stars. As to where did the light go? The obvious answer is that it is the CMB. But we cannot say that for sure because that is a departure from the Bible and that is never sound logic.

YIC

Well you'll notice that God spent another day on the animals a day I did not include in my days the animals and the earth is not more complicated than stars and at the very least other planets. And as far as light is concerned I mean not just little beams I'm talking about light that can make day and night and light up the entire planet. And what is the CMB?

[Alvin Moss]

Originally Posted by TraumaSandwhich

One I'm a Republican and two if you speak to literally anyone who knows anything about the universe (religious people included) will say that the universe is not 6,000 years old but more in the area of billions of years old. And if my first point is full of falsehoods misconceptions and ridiculous assumptions then enlighten me as to what they are.

You must be a Log Cabin Republican then.

I will not debate you, as this is not a debate site and our Pastors have forbidden it. However, just to let the air out of your smug stance, where is your proof of this vast universe and these trillions of stars?

You are a devotee of the modern cult of science and that alone will send you to Hell.

Repent your sins and come to Jesus. It's that or Hell.

Don't go there; it's too hot.

[Dr Laurence Niles]

Originally Posted by TraumaSandwhich

And what is the CMB?

Cosmic Microwave Background radiation. When Jesus said "let there be light" this could very well be the remnants that you are looking for.

But it is not supported Biblically so we have to remain skeptical.

How can you say stars are more complicated than animals? What unit of measurement are you using to describe complexity?

YIC

[A Follower]

And why do you believe the world is 15 billion years old? Did you read it in a book? Or did a teacher tell you who heard it from a friend's mother's sister's father-in-law's distant nephew who overheard a scientologist saying something like that while drunk? In no way will that convince me of the accuracy of your beliefs, instead it proves your naïveté and your gullibility. God tells us first hand how the world was formed, an eyewitness account directly shared with us.

[TraumaSandwhich]

Originally Posted by Alvin Moss

You must be a Log Cabin Republican then.

I will not debate you, as this is not a debate site and our Pastors have forbidden it. However, just to let the air out of your smug stance, where is your proof of this vast universe and these trillions of stars?

You are a devotee of the modern cult of science and that alone will send you to Hell.

Repent your sins and come to Jesus. It's that or Hell.

Don't go there; it's too hot.

One I'm not a log cabin republican and I would appreciate it if you would stop making assumptions of what I have to be and there is tons of proof of the "vast universe and trillions of stars" for one there is something called the Hubble telescope and it has taken pictures of the universe. I also recommend that you take some time to go and look at some of this evidence and do, if only the tiniest bit, some research on the concept that the universe is larger than our galaxy.

[Alvin Moss]

Originally Posted by TraumaSandwhich

One I'm not a log cabin republican and I would appreciate it if you would stop making assumptions of what I have to be and there is tons of proof of the "vast universe and trillions of stars" for one there is something called the Hubble telescope and it has taken pictures of the universe. I also recommend that you take some time to go and look at some of this evidence and do, if only the tiniest bit, some research on the concept that the universe is larger than our galaxy.

Clearly, you are a leftist homosexual Jesuit pretending to be a Republican. You are a troll for the Devil, like many we have seen before.

I must go now, as I am giving a sermon today and I am on in ten minutes. I will try to mention you in my sermon, as an example, and I will pray for you, though I doubt it will do any good.

God Bless!

[Dr Laurence Niles]

Originally Posted by TraumaSandwhich

One I'm not a log cabin republican and I would appreciate it if you would stop making assumptions of what I have to be and there is tons of proof of the "vast universe and trillions of stars" for one there is something called the Hubble telescope and it has taken pictures of the universe. I also recommend that you take some time to go and look at some of this evidence and do, if only the tiniest bit, some research on the concept that the universe is larger than our galaxy.

Why does it matter how big the universe is? It's still 6500 years old (or there abouts).

YIC

[TraumaSandwhich]

Originally Posted by A Follower

And why do you believe the world is 15 billion years old? Did you read it in a book? Or did a teacher tell you who heard it from a friend's mother's sister's father-in-law's distant nephew who overheard a scientologist saying something like that while drunk? In no way will that convince me of the accuracy of your beliefs, instead it proves your naïveté and your gullibility. God tells us first hand how the world was formed, an eyewitness account directly shared with us.

No I believe that the universe is billions of years old because the people who made the theories wrote down how they came to those theories and what they concluded and shared it with others who also studied the universe and came to those same conclusions. In case it gives you any comfort I also believe Scientology is ridiculous. And of course the person who made the theory was proven to exist and my theory didn't perpetuate through word of mouth until someone had the idea to write it down.

[James Hutchins]

Originally Posted by TraumaSandwhich

No I believe that the universe is billions of years old because the people who made the theories wrote down how they came to those theories and what they concluded and shared it with others who also studied the universe and came to those same conclusions. In case it gives you any comfort I also believe Scientology is ridiculous. And of course the person who made the theory was proven to exist and my theory didn't perpetuate through word of mouth until someone had the idea to write it down.

Friend, 'theories' are guess.

Who are you going to believe, some ambiguous person making wild, drug addled guesses or the entity that actually did it and was there at the time. A no-brainier if you ask me!

[Dr Laurence Niles]

So if it is written down and accepted as fact it is correct?

Got you.

You might want to read that one back to yourself, son.

YIC

[TraumaSandwhich]

Originally Posted by Alvin Moss

Clearly, you are a leftist homosexual Jesuit pretending to be a Republican. You are a troll for the Devil, like many we have seen before.

I must go now, as I am giving a sermon today and I am on in ten minutes. I will try to mention you in my sermon, as an example, and I will pray for you, though I doubt it will do any good.

God Bless!

[/Sarcasm]Ah of course how did I think I could trick you there obviously couldn't be any other explanation to the fact that I'm here trying to have a civil discussion.[/Sarcasm] Please tell your... flock? (I suppose that's the term) about me so long as you don't spread any lies in fact I would love to visit in person if you set up a meeting I would be happy to come.

[TraumaSandwhich]

Originally Posted by James Hutchins

Friend, 'theories' are guess.

Who are you going to believe, some ambiguous person making wild, drug addled guesses or the entity that actually did it and was there at the time. A no-brainier if you ask me!

Why do people keep assuming that all scientists are drug using alcoholics, or is it just scientists that disagree with you and not the religious ones? And my point is I don't believe that there was an entity there that did anything.

[Mary Etheldreda]

Originally Posted by TraumaSandwhich

1. If it took 2 total days to build the earth then why did it take just one day to create the stars because the stars in the universe are vastly larger and measure in the trillions?

2. If you believe in the young earth theory(in other words that the earth is approx. 6,000 years old which it seems that you do but I may be wrong) then how do account for the universe being older, by billions of years, than that especially if God made the earth before the other planets and suns?

3. How was there light before the sun and the stars and if there was where did that light go? And if he had a form of light other than a star why make the stars at all?

Your questions are fantastic! As a homeschooler, I encourage my children to ask the hard questions as well. Only in this way can we learn the Truth! So let's look to some of the answers to your questions.

If we look to science, a worldview atheists take on faith, then we can see the answers to these questions unfolding in the facts that scientists gather. Consider your question scientifically - how can the distance be such that implies a great amount of time has passed when we know the world is only 6000 years old? Well, if we remember that Distance = velocity multiplied by time (D=vt), then we must make sure we fully comprehend each variable accurately. But guess what? Time (t) is being understood in all kinds of new and exciting ways!

We know time can flow at different rates (consider the difference in time calculated atomically at sea level v. high above sea level). How much more so must it be in outer space! It's possible the universe has aged millions of years while only thousands of years have passed on earth. If the earth were the center of a finite universe (and really, that's the only thing that makes sense because our God is a God of Order as well as one of Beauty), then time would pass more slowly here than elsewhere.

You can listen to one very good explanation here:

But let's consider other observational facts that contradict the Old Earth mythology of atheists. For example, continental erosion means fossil remains should have long since eroded away. And yet they remain. Clearly these fossils cannot be millions of years old. Also, subterranean fluid pressure would have a completely different effect. The pressure of these fluids should escape in less than 100,000 years through the relatively permeable rocks above, yet these deposits remain highly pressurized. Because of the supposed antiquity of these deposits and their location throughout the geologic column, this observation calls into question some of the interpretations which have led to the formulation of the column. Finally, consider Lunar Recession. The moon is slowly moving farther away from the earth. The closer the moon gets to the earth, the greater its influence on our tides. We can’t go too far back in time before we would all drown twice a day.

Now, if we look to some of the other failed secular scientific "discoveries" of the past, we will see that the non Biblical scientific worldview has a pretty poor track record. Anyone putting their faith in that is like a fool who builds his house upon sand (Matthew 7:26).

• Spontaneous generation - is a principle regarding the origin of life from inanimate matter, which held that this process was a commonplace and everyday occurrence, as distinguished from univocal generation, or reproduction from parent(s).
• Transmutation of species, Lamarckism, inheritance of acquired characteristics - first theories of evolution.
• Maternal impression – the theory that the mother's thoughts created birth defects.
• Miasma theory of disease – the theory that diseases are caused by "bad air. “ Recapitulation theory – the theory that "ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny".
• Telegony – the theory that an offspring can inherit characteristics from a previous mate of its mother's as well as its actual parents
• Out of Asia theory of human origin
• Luminiferous aether theory
• Hollow Earth theory
• The Open Polar Sea, an ice-free sea once supposed to surround the North Pole
• Rain follows the plow – the theory that human settlement increases rainfall in arid regions
• Theory of the four bodily humours
• Physiognomy
• Phrenology
• Alchemy
• Astrology
• Phrenology

Let's face facts here, naturalistic evolution is the creation story of atheism. In order for atheism to be true, evolution must also be true. In order for evolution to be true, the universe must be billions of years old. That is why "billions of years" are pounded into our brains relentlessly from childhood by the scientific community. But the facts don't agree! You've been lied to, duped by a global conspiracy to undermine the Power of God's Word by dismissing such information as the creation of the world!

And why? Because atheists are the willing dupes of Satan. They have sold their souls for the kind of feel-goodism that atheism advocates. What does the Bible say about the kind of feel-goodism that comes from thinking for yourself?

O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:
Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen.
I Timothy 6:20-21

There is a reason for this warning, friend. It's for the sake of your eternal soul. You see, your own thinking cannot be trusted. In fact, for this reason, God hates rational thinking.

The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Jeremiah 17:9

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1 Corinthians 2:14

We should read and study the Bible instead of false scientific reports because only the Bible gives us the measuring stick by which we can distinguish truth from error. It tells us what God is like, and what He wants from us (Ecclesiastes 12:13). The Bible tells us how one truly gets to Heaven, and it is not by being good or by being smart or by anything else we may accomplish on our own (John 14:6; Ephesians 2:1-10; Isaiah 53:6; Romans 3:10-18, 5:8, 6:23, 10:9-13).

The Bible equips us to know and serve God (2 Timothy 3:17; Ephesians 6:17; Hebrews 4:12). It teaches us how to be saved from our sin and its ultimate consequence (2 Timothy 3:15). Meditating on God’s Word and obeying its teachings, not Darwin's deluded fantasies, will bring success in life (Joshua 1:8; James 1:25). God’s Word helps us see sin in our lives and helps us get rid of it (Psalm 119:9, 11). It gives us guidance in life, making us wiser than our teachers (Psalm 32:8, 119:99; Proverbs 1:6). The Bible keeps us from wasting years of our lives on that which does not matter and will not last (Matthew 7:24-27). Smart men look to the future.

So, John, are you a smart man?