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Default Vatican: Unsaved Babies Go WHERE?! - 04-23-2007, 12:37 AM

Putting aside for a moment the fact that infant baptism itself is an affront to God, this story is sure to make the Baby Jesus spit up His supper.

It has always been the True Christian position that babies who die before accepting Jesus are disgusting scumbags so abominable to God that the very sight of them is too hideous for Him to bear -- a position that is in perfect accordance with Holy Scripture. Naturally, their only possible fate can be unending torment in Hell. Cat-O-Licks, on the other hand, invented the magical fairy-land of Limbo out of thin air, and we True Christians have been calling them on it for centuries -- just because you say there's a place where millions of helpless little children are corraled for you to sodomize them, doesn't mean it actually exists! And now they've finally given up the Limbo nonsense, and admit that unsaved babies are headed straight for... Heaven?!

I kid you not. Read on.

Quote:
Catholic Church Reverses Teaching on Limbo
By NICOLE WINFIELD
AP

VATICAN CITY (April 21) - Pope Benedict XVI has reversed centuries of traditional Roman Catholic teaching on limbo, approving a Vatican report released Friday that says there were "serious" grounds to hope that children who die without being baptized can go to heaven.

Theologians said the move was highly significant - both for what it says about Benedict's willingness to buck a long-standing tenet of Catholic belief and for what it means theologically about the Church's views on heaven, hell and original sin - the sin that the faithful believe all children are born with.

Although Catholics have long believed that children who die without being baptized are with original sin and thus excluded from heaven, the Church has no formal doctrine on the matter. Theologians, however, have long taught that such children enjoy an eternal state of perfect natural happiness, a state commonly called limbo, but without being in communion with God.

"If there's no limbo and we're not going to revert to St. Augustine's teaching that unbaptized infants go to hell, we're left with only one option, namely, that everyone is born in the state of grace," said the Rev. Richard McBrien, professor of theology at the University of Notre Dame.

"Baptism does not exist to wipe away the "stain" of original sin, but to initiate one into the Church," he said in an e-mailed response.

Benedict approved the findings of the International Theological Commission, a Vatican advisory panel, which said it was reassessing traditional teaching on limbo in light of "pressing" pastoral needs - primarily the growing number of abortions and infants born to non-believers who die without being baptized.

While the report does not carry the authority of a papal encyclical or even the weight of a formal document from the Vatican's Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, it was approved by the pope on Jan. 19 and was published on the Internet - an indication that it was intended to be widely read by the faithful.

"We can say we have many reasons to hope that there is salvation for these babies," the Rev. Luis Ladaria, a Jesuit who is the commission's secretary-general, told The Associated Press. He stressed that there was no certainty, just hope.

The Commission posted its document Friday on Origins, the documentary service of Catholic News Service, the news agency of the American Bishop's Conference.

The document traces centuries of Church views on the fate of unbaptized infants, paying particular attention to the writings of St. Augustine - the 4th century bishop who is particularly dear to Benedict. Augustine wrote that such infants do go to hell, but they suffer only the "mildest condemnation."

In the document, the commission said such views are now out of date and there were "serious theological and liturgical grounds for hope that unbaptized infants who die will be saved and enjoy the beatific vision."

It stressed, however, that "these are reasons for prayerful hope, rather than grounds for sure knowledge."

No one can know for certain what becomes of unbaptized babies since Scripture is largely silent on the matter, the report said.

It stressed that none of its findings should be taken as diminishing the need for parents to baptize infants.

"Rather ... they provide strong grounds for hope that God will save infants when we have not been able to do for them what we would have wished to do, namely, to baptize them into the faith and life of the church."

Vatican watchers hailed the decision as both a sensitive and significant move by Benedict.

"Parents who are mourning the death of their child are no longer going to be burdened with the added guilt of not having gotten their child baptized," said the Rev. Thomas Reese, a senior fellow at the Woodstock Theological Center at Georgetown University.

He said the document also had implications for non-Christians, since it could be seen as suggesting that non-baptized adults could go to heaven if they led a good life.

"I think it shows that Benedict is trying to balance his view of Jesus as being central as the savior of the world ... but at the same time not saying what the Evangelicals say, that anyone who doesn't accept Jesus is going to hell," he said in a phone interview.

The International Theological Commission is a body of Vatican-appointed theologians who advise the pope and the Vatican 's Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. Benedict headed the Congregation for two decades before becoming pope in 2005.


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Default Re: Vatican: Unsaved Babies Go WHERE?! - 04-23-2007, 12:48 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Virginia D. Templeton View Post
Putting aside for a moment the fact that infant baptism itself is an affront to God, this story is sure to make the Baby Jesus spit up His supper.

It has always been the True Christian position that babies who die before accepting Jesus are disgusting scumbags so abominable to God that the very sight of them is too hideous for Him to bear -- a position that is in perfect accordance with Holy Scripture. Naturally, their only possible fate can be unending torment in Hell. Cat-O-Licks, on the other hand, invented the magical fairy-land of Limbo out of thin air, and we True Christians have been calling them on it for centuries -- just because you say there's a place where millions of helpless little children are corraled for you to sodomize them, doesn't mean it actually exists! And now they've finally given up the Limbo nonsense, and admit that unsaved babies are headed straight for... Heaven?!

I kid you not. Read on.
Well, this bit pretty much explains everything:
Quote:
"Parents who are mourning the death of their child are no longer going to be burdened with the added guilt of not having gotten their child baptized," said the Rev. Thomas Reese, a senior fellow at the Woodstock Theological Center at Georgetown University.
So, has now officially become , it would appear. One certainly would need some pretty powerful substances to get their heads fully round the twists and turns of Popish doctrine: according to the fish-heads, every single Pope is infallible and directly inspired by God, and now this Nazi whippersnapper has come along to contradict what every single one of them's been saying for the last 2000 years, well, he's infallible too.


O Lord our God, help us to tear their soldiers to bloody shreds with our shells; help us to cover their smiling fields with the pale forms of their patriot dead; help us to drown the thunder of the guns with the shrieks of their wounded, writhing in pain; help us to lay waste their humble homes with a hurricane of fire; help us to wring the hearts of their unoffending widows with unavailing grief; help us to turn them out roofless with little children to wander unfriended the wastes of their desolated land in rags and hunger and thirst, sports of the sun flames of summer and the icy winds of winter, broken in spirit, worn with travail, imploring Thee for the refuge of the grave and denied it--for our sakes who adore Thee, Lord, blast their hopes, blight their lives, protract their bitter pilgrimage, make heavy their steps, water their way with their tears, stain the white snow with the blood of their wounded feet! We ask it, in the spirit of love, of Him Who is the Source of Love, and Who is the ever-faithful refuge and friend of all that are sore beset and seek His aid with humble and contrite hearts. Amen.


God being truth, justice, goodness, beauty, power, and life, man is falsehood, iniquity, evil, ugliness, impotence, and death. God being master, man is the slave. Incapable of finding justice, truth, and eternal life by his own effort, he can attain them only through a divine revelation... he who desires to worship God must harbor no childish illusions about the matter, but bravely renounce his liberty and humanity.
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Default Re: Vatican: Unsaved Babies Go WHERE?! - 04-23-2007, 01:03 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Virginia D. Templeton View Post
Putting aside for a moment the fact that infant baptism itself is an affront to God, this story is sure to make the Baby Jesus spit up His supper.

It has always been the True Christian position that babies who die before accepting Jesus are disgusting scumbags so abominable to God that the very sight of them is too hideous for Him to bear -- a position that is in perfect accordance with Holy Scripture. Naturally, their only possible fate can be unending torment in Hell. Cat-O-Licks, on the other hand, invented the magical fairy-land of Limbo out of thin air, and we True Christians have been calling them on it for centuries -- just because you say there's a place where millions of helpless little children are corraled for you to sodomize them, doesn't mean it actually exists! And now they've finally given up the Limbo nonsense, and admit that unsaved babies are headed straight for... Heaven?!

I kid you not. Read on.
Sweet merciful crawdads, I feel like I'm reading an article titled that there are 'serious grounds to hope that children who've been bad can still get presents in their stockings instead of coal from Santy-Claus'.



Wake up and smell the 21st Century!!
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Default Re: Vatican: Unsaved Babies Go WHERE?! - 04-23-2007, 03:10 AM

"I think it shows that Benedict is trying to balance his view of Jesus as being central as the savior of the world ... but at the same time not saying what the Evangelicals say, that anyone who doesn't accept Jesus is going to hell," he said in a phone interview."


Oh really,huh?
I think it shows desperation - Christianity scrabbling to change some of it's sillier teachings to try to fit into modern times - & what with catholics the world over being less than faithful to their daft & outdated ideas & church attendances falling.


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Default Re: Vatican: Unsaved Babies Go WHERE?! - 04-23-2007, 06:46 AM

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Originally Posted by lilith View Post
"I think it shows desperation - Christianity scrabbling to change some of it's sillier teachings to try to fit into modern times - & what with catholics the world over being less than faithful to their daft & outdated ideas & church attendances falling.
Agreed, except that it's not Christianity, it's Catholicism.

They're pagans with a little Jesus thrown in.

Meanwhile, Evangelical churches are growing by leaps and bounds! In the US, there are megachurches with more than 10,000 members!
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Default Re: Vatican: Unsaved Babies Go WHERE?! - 04-24-2007, 03:02 AM

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Originally Posted by OnYourKnees View Post
Agreed, except that it's not Christianity, it's Catholicism.

They're pagans with a little Jesus thrown in.

Meanwhile, Evangelical churches are growing by leaps and bounds! In the US, there are megachurches with more than 10,000 members!

Regardless of how many times others claim catholics "are not christian" they identify themselves as christian & have done since long before baptists were thought of.....possibly it's that which annoys you?


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Default Re: Vatican: Unsaved Babies Go WHERE?! - 04-24-2007, 03:08 AM

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Originally Posted by lilith View Post
Regardless of how many times others claim catholics "are not christian" they identify themselves as christian & have done since long before baptists were thought of.....possibly it's that which annoys you?
John the Baptist, heard of him?

Baptized Jesus.

Before there was a Catlicker Cult.

And the Catlickers don't call themselves Christian either. They claim anyone outside their cult is hellbound.
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