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Smile "Sweatshops"? A fun place for children to learn and grow - 07-18-2009, 08:12 AM

This is a very enlightening discussion, and I'm not just saying that because Bro Jed sounds like Bro Jeb.

Friday, May 22, 2009 at 11:33pm

THE PROVERBS OF BRO JED

May 21, 2009, University of Washington

I received a voice mail yesterday from Becca, the lesbian at the UW, saying that students were waiting on me; but I was preaching at Western Washington University. According to Lindsay, the GLBT group had organized a protest against my preaching. I am sorry that I disappointed them; but I can only be one place at a time. The irony is that they planned to protest my speaking on campus; but they were disappointed when I did not speak on campus.

Today the communists organized a protest at UW against Nike’s alleged exploitation of third world workers in “sweatshops.” This was a distraction from my preaching; so that I did not gather an audience until 1:15.

I used the opportunity of the demonstration to teach students principles of capitalism reminding them that the US went through it sweatshop stage as industry was developing in our nation in the 19th and early 20th century. The sweatshops gave immigrants the opportunity to establish themselves in America. Third world workers are happy to get the jobs that American corporations provide, especially considering the alternatives of working in the fields sweating in the burning sun, or having to resort to prostitution or picking for food from trash cans or perhaps even starvation.

After the Fall, God cursed the ground and said unto Adam, “In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread.” American corporations provide a way through capitalism for workers in developing nations to minimize the effects of the curse by providing workers an opportunity to be rewarded for industriousness.

In fact these liberal and communist students have little respect for workers who are willing to labor for long hours in order to improve their condition in countries where there is no government dole to provide for them when they do not have a job. Communists would rather see people out of work than for the corporations they hate like Nike and Walmart prosper. Their real goal is to bring down corporate America. Many of these students have never had a job which required them to work up some sweat. A lot of them would be better off spiritually if they had worked in a sweat shop as a child instead of being indoctrinated with socialism and pampered in our public school system where they are introduced to drugs and sex, the sexual exploitation coming sometimes even from their teachers. The only sweat these radicalized students have worked up is in the gym wearing their Nike apparel or jogging publically half naked in their Nike shoes.

After the break a small group sat on the steps as I entertained them with stories from my frat days, escapes in the back seat of my father’s 1954 Chevrolet and the tale of the temptation of Laura at Texas State with the breast implants, who wanted me to feel her new breasts. These stories are designed for more than entertainment; I relate them in the spirit of Proverbs 7 which speaks of “a young man void of understanding,” who is seduced by “the strange woman who flatters with her words.” The young man goes after her “as an ox goes to slaughter, as a fool to the correction of the stocks.” The strange woman house turns into “the way to hell going down to the chambers of death.”

Once I captured their attention for the rest of the afternoon I taught on gospel basics like the death and resurrection of Jesus, eternal life, the justification of eternal torment, figurative and literal language in the Bible, etc.. This was a serious time the students were not gainsaying; but they actually were listening attentively.

In the evening Fred and Ardi L. hosted an open house and buffet dinner in order to introduce me to their friends. About a dozen guests attended and I taught on confrontational evangelism, took some time for Q & A, finally everyone watched my Who Will Rise Up? DVD. The guests were mature believers who received my message.



Mitch Metzger at 4:40am May 25
Nice article.


David Moser at 2:31pm May 26
Brother Jed, I have a question for you. How is it wrong for us to hold corporations accountable for the way they treat their employees? Is it fair to pay an American worker minimum wage and then to pay a worker in Bangladesh 5 cents an hour? Doesn't that sound like exploitation?

If the church is meant to be the arms of God to the hurting and the poor in this world, shouldn't we be all about holding corporations accountable for their actions?

With respect, it's not fair to make blanket statements about people who oppose corporate abuse of power. Just because the people are "liberal" doesn't mean they aren't on to something.

Just my two cents.



Jed Smock at 12:41am May 27
The minimum wage is not fair because it denies the right of employer and employee to enter into volunteer relationships.

What American corp is paying workers five cent an hour? Wages should be determined by the market. If you want to hold corps accountable, then simply don't do business with them. I suspect that most liberals who complain about Walmart still shop there.


David Moser at 12:45pm May 27
I think we both know that it's almost impossible to not do business with corporations like Nike and Walmart. I'm not saying it's bad for us to buy from them. However, I don't think you answered my question. As Christians, especially as AMERICAN Christians, should we not be concerned for the ways which American corporations treat other people in the world? Many Nike sweatshop workers are not paid enough to make ends meet while Americans get their shoes for $70 to $150. As the church, we need to be speaking out against this abuse... not to destroy the corporations themselves, but to hold them accountable to pay fairly and not take advantage of third world countries.

It's not wrong to be concerned about these issues just because "communists" or "liberals" speak out against them. I would say that this is a huge matter that churches should involve themselves in.

For more info on Nike in particular, check this out:
http://www.globalexchange.org/campai...eatshops/nike/


Jed Smock at 2:03pm May 27
No one has to do business with these companies. I do not remember ever buying anything from NIKE. Why does everyone want to shop a Walmart? The answer is they have inexpensive products. Should they pay their workers more at home or abroad that means higher prices. None us like high prices. American corporations are good to their employees overseas, better than indigenous businesses. If you want to protest something, boycott Chinese products.

America's problem is not big business; it is big government. We need to be keeping government in check, not American enterprise.


Jed Smock at 10:26pm May 27
Global exhange was founded by a pro-castro radical. It is what J. Edgar Hoover used to call a communist front organization. These people despise Christianity.



David Moser at 11:51pm May 27
So are you saying that American corporations can do whatever they want whenever they want? We just let them treat people unfairly? (not that all corporations do, but they should be held accountable)? With all due respect Mr. Smock, this sounds more like a defense of capitalism than a defense of Christianity (they are not one and the same). Even though it is superior to socialism or communism, capitalism is not perfect and must be kept in check. I would also argue that many capitalists despise Christianity also... and that God would not like us to enable people to take advantage of others. That's why we must speak out and address these problems!

Maybe Global Exchange has some radical views. But that doesn't mean there is no truth to any of it.

Please realize that when I say these things, I do so in love and not spitefully... even though Facebook and written text may come across that way.



Jed Smock at 12:56am May 28
Corporations do not have the right to break the law. I know of no laws which NIKE or Walmart are breaking. They are doing a great service in providing jobs at home and abroad. They should have the support of Christians.

What is your standard of determining a fair wage? A laborer sells his labor and the employer purchases the worker's labor. If the labor does not like what the employer offers him, he can work for someone else or start his own enterprise.

Please study the parable of the laborers in Matt 20. The ones who only worked an hour received the same amount as those who worked all day. Those who worked and in the sweated in the heat all day complained that the employer was not fair; that they should get more than those who worked an hour.

The employer said, "Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee. Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?"


Jed Smock at 1:00am May 28
Not all capitalists are Christians; but all Christians should support free markets. God is a capitalist; the devil is a Socialist.



David Moser at 5:14pm May 28
I agree that corporations aren't breaking laws. This is due to the fact that there are no international laws binding them against their wage determination. Transnational corporations are not bound to the particular laws of any one country in many ways, and thus are free to charge a worker in Bangladesh $1.65 an hour and an American worker $7.30 an hour (depending on the state). Why should there be this difference?

I believe that corporations can and should pay workers in other nations the same price which they pay in America. Think of how much that would help struggling economies and the very lives of people in the rest of the world! I agree that people should be rewarded for their work, but the ones which give the work should be fair in their dealing of wages.

One thing to remember is that even though Americans have the choice to start their own enterprise, many people in the rest of the world do not have such an opportunity.
continued:



David Moser at 5:21pm May 28
Medical, financial, and some governmental barriers block many members of developing countries from doing so. So, if they are to take a job from a corporation, shouldn't that corp at least be willing to pay a wage that allows a person to live and raise a family? It certainly does so in America. Why can't it do so over there?

This nation needs to get past its blatant ethnocentric, selfish, and egotistical attitude and remember that we are part of a global community. Christians especially need to be concerned for our Christian brothers and sisters overseas who strive to make a living. My point is not to call for the overthrow of corporate power, it's for reform!

As far Christians supporting free markets, I agree. But to call God a capitalist is to ascribe a man-made, Enlightenment-spun economic system to the very nature of God Himself, which I believe will lead us down a wrong path of thinking about God and His attributes.



David Moser at 5:24pm May 28
Brother Jed, I agree that it's absolutely vital for a person to be paid only to the amount he's willing to work for it. I believe what you say regarding Matthew 20 in that context. All I want is for the church to stand for justice and peace, because we have the answers to those things in the Bible! My dream is to see the church speak out on these issues and become a place of hope and peace for people as we point them to Jesus.


Jed Smock at 12:42pm May 30
The job of a corporation is to make money for its stockholders. Did it ever occur to you that the corporation may not be able to pay the overseas worker $7.30 an hour and still make a profit? The enterprise might have to shut down and thus put many people out of work and back into the streets perhaps prostituting themselves. I suppose you would want them to have health benefits as well.



Jed Smock at 12:43pm May 30
Who determines fair wages? Government bureaucrats from some international organization like the UN? Many claim that overpopulation is a problem in Bangladesh. So people in Bangladesh are living and raising families. Of course, not nearly up to the standards of Americans. But by the standards of their own country, the ones who work for American... Read More corporations, earn more than those who work for indigenous companies. You are right that governmental barriers (over regulation) prevent people in these countries from starting their own businesses. The answer is for third world nations to promote capitalism and not a government regulated economy. Regulations are more and more becoming a problem in the U.S. because of the ideas like yours, Mr. Moser.



Jed Smock at 12:44pm May 30
What is this about the “blatant ethnocentric, selfish, and egotistical” attitude of America? You sound like Obama. Although I fear America is in decline, largely because we have too many Americans with your attitude. America has historically been the “land of the free and the home of the brave.” What song do you sing, Mr. Moser, “The Internationale?” America is supposed to be unique; we do not want to be like tired old Europe or like some third world country. We should want to be the best. Everyone except people with your point of view think America is the best. That’s why people from all over the world want to come to America. Haven’t you heard of the American Dream? Have you studied American history?



Jed Smock at 12:45pm May 30
Marx defined communism in one line, “abolition of private property.” The Eight Commandment and the Tenth Commandment demand private property. The fruit of a man’s labor belongs to himself, not the community. God is a capitalist since he promotes charity and not a welfare state. God is a nationalist. God wanted to elevate Israel over other nations. Israel often wanted to be like the other nations, demanding a king, etc. God established America on principles of freedom and enterprise. Personally, I remain a nationalist, America first. Mr. Moser, you are evidently are an internationalist. Where are you getting your ideas? From a school teacher, an emergent church pastor or what?


Jed Smock at 12:45pm May 30
Actually we have hardly any Christian brothers and sisters in Bangladesh for the country is 83% Muslim, 16% Hindu and 1% other. What the church needs to do is to send missionaries Bangladesh and convert these heathens to Christianity and teach them principles of free enterprise. I would suggest that you find a missionary to Bangladesh and see what you can do to help him out and forget about trying to reform the American corporations.



David Moser at 5:44pm June 2
I have done some research over the past several months. This is taken from the last quarter of 2008.

http://www.reuters.com/article/busin...4BG79Y20081217

With that much money coming in, I think they could afford to pay foreign workers a fair wage… at least enough to provide for their children! Also, it’s wrong to overgeneralize about foreign people when you say things like “The enterprise might have to shut down and thus put many people out of work and back into the streets perhaps prostituting themselves.” Right, as if all foreign people would have to resort to something like that if they didn’t have a corporation giving them a job. This is what I mean by the ethnocentric attitude of the country. Many people share your ideas, and they are partially true, but far from complete.


David Moser at 5:53pm June 2
I can see why you are concerned about government regulation. I am too. I don’t want the bureaucrats taking away freedoms, but I feel like corporations take away freedoms from people in other nations when they make them work long days and don’t pay them very much. Capitalism alone will not suffice for the justice which must take place between the corporation and its workers. As of right now, a corp has no accountability except to its customers. You are right to say that if we don’t support them we should boycott them. However, I think more needs to be done to ensure that corporations are held to account.

We have laws to outlaw murdering one another and stealing... why can't there be laws to prevent a corporation (which has all the rights of a human being) to take advantage of people?


David Moser at 5:58pm June 2

When Jesus preached a kingdom that is not attached to this world, was he talking about America? Can America do any wrong in your opinion? You say this as if the world rises and falls (even more, that Christianity rises and falls) on the shoulders of the US, in terms of morality. This, I believe, is highly unbiblical and follows a Constantinian way of thinking that will lead the church to disaster if it is not checked.



Jeb says: Constantine, a disaster? He killed a lot of Pagans for Jesus, how many Pagans have YOU killed, whiner?

One thing about unions and lazy-workers "rights" that needs to be mentioned: they cause unemployment. Let me give you an example: The Panama Canal. It started as a project of the French Empire, which didn't have unions. They employed a lot of people. Then they sold it to America, which was just having it's first unions forming, and suddenly, it was too expensive to hire people to dig. So instead we had to use all sorts of machines to finish the job. Union-apologists call this "industrialization" but True Christians know it's just lazy workers pricing themselves out of a job.

Think of building the pyramids. That employed a lot of people. And why wouldn't it, there were no unions in those days. Yet if it was tried any time in the 20th century, they would use concrete and cranes and big machines, doing it in a few days and hardly employing anybody.

This overpriced-worker phenemenom even undermines the military. Soldiers are so expensive, we have to use bombers and tanks and artillery barrages, while our enemies, who are union-free, are able to hire enough people to do human wave attacks. That's how they fought us to a standstill in Korea and beat us in Vietnam: they could afford human wave attacks, we couldn't.


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Default Re: "Sweatshops"? A fun place for children to learn and grow - 07-18-2009, 09:32 AM

I know what you mean, Brother Jeb. I prefer sweet shops, myself. Can you imagine what commerce would be like if you had to depend on your workers doing their job from home?


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Default Re: "Sweatshops"? A fun place for children to learn and grow - 07-18-2009, 10:45 AM

I think it is good kids are getting into sweat shops. So many of this little rascals spend all thier time in the home, playing those demonic video games. It will be good for them to get out and sweat a little. When I was young, there were no fat kids. My wife and children, none of them are at all fat. They work hard. The rest of the kids in this great country should too.


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Default Re: "Sweatshops"? A fun place for children to learn and grow - 07-18-2009, 12:25 PM

These overseas corporations are giving their children the opportunity to start working at a young age so that they can start saving early ans learn to appreciate what they recieve for their hard work, unlike the US does for it's children and look at the children we have running around this country these days. But yet, these foreigners seem to squander their earnings and become adults with nothing to show for their work. PLUS, in Mexico, they are paid cash each week AND they receive a free lunch each day and STILL they seem to be ungrateful. Why, Mexico even allows their women to work tending to the donkey's and such. It seems these foreign countries give their women and children much too much opportunity in the corporate world - and again, these employees just toss their money away on foolishness.

If these foreigners would reach out to God for direction and salvation, they wouldn't be poor for their entire lives.


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Default Re: "Sweatshops"? A fun place for children to learn and grow - 07-18-2009, 02:19 PM

These aren't your kids by the way, these are FOREIGN kids. Filthy and shabby, filled with mischief and prone to violence. I can assure you that the children I have met in these toilet countries all NEEDED to be somewhere doing something productive instead of following our convoys begging for water and yelling for help(we are already liberating you, what more do you want?)and then throwing rocks when they don't get a candy bar or a bottle of water. What are we supposed to eat and drink? We caught them stealing from us and even pickpocketing the men passing out soccerballs to them. Ungrateful little turds. I caught one trying to steal my sunglasses so me and the guys grabbed him and took him on wheel patrol so he would see we were the good guys before dropping him off outside of the village. I figured the 3 km walk home would do him good. Sweat never killed anyone, a pissed of Marine on the other hand...
No, these kids need some way to channel their meaningless lives into doing something to better themselves and their pathetic communities. No matter how pitiful or desperate their situation is; work is the answer.
Don't listen to some wet palmed hippy or sticky fingered lesbian either, 5˘ an hour is big money in some countries. A dollar would make them targets for rapists and murderers. The economy of some of these countries is so radically different than Americas that a fair wage actually IS 5˘ an hour and they are glad to get it too. If they weren't glad then there wouldn't be any workers there in the first place now would there? Would any of us work for 5˘ an hour? Of course not, we are Americans. If we were in Bangaladesh would we?...Probably. Because 50˘ a day goes a long way there. Parents don't give bags of quarters to the kids to skip on the creek like they do here. Every penny counts when you are cursed with inhabiting a hellhole like Iraq or India or any of the "istans" that seem to change names weekly.
Liberals are needy creatures. They feel guilty instead of relieved, they feel bad instead of good, they seek out strife rather than avoid it. On one hand they want us to respect other cultures and ways of life but then they say we aren't doing enough to stop genocide and starvation(both hallmarks of foreign culture). Liberals crave misery. Why else would they be disappointed that an Evangelical didn't show up FOR THEM TO SCREAM AT? It's like they are only happy when making trouble and being obnoxious. This is why I believe Liberalism is a mental disorder.


God bless America, the Second Amendment and the Constitution. God bless the United States Marine Corps and all who fight for Jesus in third world cess pools. God bless the GOP and all they stand for, Truth, Honesty and the American people. God bless Landover Baptist Church and all True Christians™ the world over. Curses to our Muslim President, his failure is our Salvation.
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