[Billy Ram]

My Pappy always taught me that to be saved all you have to do is believe.Basically he said you didn't have to give up loose women,the bottle or snortin the devil's dandruff cause salvation is a free gift.Did my Pappy teach me wrong?

[Jeb Stuart Thurmond]

Originally Posted by Billy Ram

My Pappy always taught me that to be saved all you have to do is believe.Basically he said you didn't have to give up loose women,the bottle or snortin the devil's dandruff cause salvation is a free gift.Did my Pappy teach me wrong?

Tell him that those who don't give up the nose candy and negresses don't believe.

Do you believe that walking in front of a speeding truck is a bad idea. I bet you do believe it - after all, you've never done it.

I entered "works salvation" into the Republican Party search engine and here's the result:

Does salvation come through good works?

Salvation Is Not By Works

Salvation Crystal Clear

[Billy Ram]

Originally Posted by Jeb Thurmond

Tell him that those who don't give up the nose candy and negresses don't believe.

Do you believe that walking in front of a speeding truck is a bad idea. I bet you do believe it - after all, you've never done it.

He believed more than anyone I've known.He told me repentance is a change from unbelief to belief.You don't have to repent of your sins just your unbelief to be saved.

[Reuerend RauenMoone]

Originally Posted by Billy Ram

He believed more than anyone I've known.He told me repentance is a change from unbelief to belief.You don't have to repent of your sins just your unbelief to be saved.

I belieeve that the repentance that our saviour Iesus Christ taught was a repentance from intolerance towards other views. Anyone who treats others with dignitie is saved. Blessed be!

~~~Reuerend RauenMoone ⍢

[Pastor Isaac Peters]

Ignore Reuerend Siluerbunny Rauenfluff and refer to the following chart:

[Billy Ram]

I can see the importance of works salvation now pastor.I mean if it was purely faith alone what basis would us christians have for are self righteous attitude also how would the church get people to tithe.My concern is for Brother Jeb he gave me a link to a website that teaches this heresy of free salvation without works.I will pray for him.

[Pastor Al E Pistle]

Originally Posted by Pastor Isaac Peters

Ignore Reuerend Siluerbunny Rauenfluff and refer to the following chart:

Beautiful! I have just realized that flowcharts are excellent teaching aids for the retarded goths which come to bother us.
The one most apropos would be a 'your name here' line with an arrow straight to hell.

[Pastor Billy-Reuben]

Originally Posted by Billy Ram

I can see the importance of works salvation now pastor.I mean if it was purely faith alone what basis would us christians have for are self righteous attitude also how would the church get people to tithe.My concern is for Brother Jeb he gave me a link to a website that teaches this heresy of free salvation without works.I will pray for him.

Hold on a minute, friend. I think you misunderstood Pastor Isaac's chart. Brother Jeb and Pastor Isaac are both right.

On one hand, salvation is not something we earn (Eph 2:8-10). It is something given to some of us who are chosen by God, not because we deserve it, but to suit His divine sovereignty (Rom 9). No amount of good works will make a sinner clean. God is not at all impressed by "good works" performed by unsaved sinners (Isaiah 64:6).

Imagine a cheating husband, coming home drunk at 2 in the morning, reeking of another woman's perfume. Now imagine that he attempts to make up for it by hamfistedly pulling up some flowers out of her flower garden to give to her. Think about how the wife would view this gesture. That's about how God views a sinner's "good works".

But on the other hand, once we are saved, we are no longer capable of sin and we are so full of joy that we can't help do good works and obey God as a natural consequence. If someone commits a sin, it is proof that they aren't saved yet. (1 John 3:1-12)

Failure to do good works is also a sin (James 4:17), so if saved Christians are incapable of sin, then that means saved Christians are incapable of failing to do good works.

So, your Pappy was dead wrong that mere belief is enough. Even the Devil believes (James 2:19). Salvation IS a free gift, but if someone is still sinning and not doing good works, then it's proof they haven't received that gift. So Jeb is right that works are not the path to salvation, and Pastor Isaac is right than a lack of works are proof that one is Hellbound. Works are not the means to salvation, but they are the evidence of it.

Pastor Billy-Reuben

[Billy Ram]

Thanks for clearing that up Pastor Billy. So basically the calvinist position about predestination is correct. If I'm not predestined then I'm screwed. Probably won't sleep well tonight.

[Ahimaaz Smith]

Originally Posted by Billy Ram

Thanks for clearing that up Pastor Billy. So basically the calvinist position about predestination is correct. If I'm not predestined then I'm screwed. Probably won't sleep well tonight.

Billy, the explanation of predestination is the same as that of salvation by faith. God foreordains, but each of us still decides whether to accept Jesus. There is a perfect correspondence: election = faith = works. Which is why faith is the key.

It is true that God calls us to Salvation by predestination:

For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate.... Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. Romans 8:29-30

Nevertheless, never forget that God gave us free will, to chose the Lord or Satan:

Choose you this day whom ye will serve.... But as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD. Joshua 24:15

This means there are some people whom God did not predestine to Salvation who might nevertheless stumble across it accidentally. God has to delude them to keep them from accepting Jesus:

God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned. 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12

The very fact that you are here in the Landover forums indicates, however, that God has not been deluding you.

Indeed, this is the reason that every Christian is required to witness to the unsaved--imagine how you would feel if God predestined someone to salvation, assigned you (once you are saved, of course) to deliver the Word to that person, but you decided not to preach that day? By your own inaction, you would have doomed to Hell a person whom God predestined to Salvation! Can you think of any fate worse than living with that for eternity, having to explain to Jesus on Judgment Day how you lost one of the elect?

Anyway, don't pay too much attention to the Calvinists, they were not among the elect. We can see this in their acceptance of infant baptism. Jesus clearly tells us that you must believe when you are Baptized to be saved:

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Mark 16:16

So, unless the Calvinists were rebaptized once they were old enough to understand the Gospels, they were not Baptized, and therefore not saved, ergo they were not among the elect.