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Default Re: Witnessing to a Seventh-Day Adventist - 06-24-2017, 07:57 PM

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Originally Posted by MitzaLizalor View Post
In the post before yours there was a Scripture reference mentioned. This would be a good opportunity for you to comment on that. I have read it and it seems pretty straightforward. But perhaps my judgement is clouded and God was not saying what the words say, rather using a code of some sort. In the meantime, here's a picture of a calendar for you to look at.
It's plugging a meteorological calendar. Now regardless of what I think which I don't need to because all this has been answered already in the thread and in The Bible, there are two questions you could answer for me
  1. What is the seventh day according to this calendar?
  2. Why are the last two days called THE WEEKEND?

Your calendar that begins with Monday as the first day of the week is ultimately wrong, given the fact that the calendar featuring Sunday as the first day of the week was out long before the European “Monday” calendar. However, the true Sabbath in Europe is observed during the same day of the week as it is in Israel, North America, S. America, and the same in Apostolic times in accordance with the respective time zones and Divine Scripture. Even after what Christians believe to be the “Resurrection”, the first Easter, the early Christians continued to worship on the Jewish Sabbath. BUT, they, like the Jews, continued to worship every day of the week. Even today, many Jewish groups have services every day of the week, though the Sabbath services are the most heavily attended. Some Christian churches also have daily services.
Eventually, though, the majority of the Christian churches started worshiping on Sunday, (a change without scriptural authority or merit) but there were many people who then complained that this was worshiping on the “First Day of the Week”, so some calendar makers may have cooperated by designing their calendars so that Sunday appeared to be the seventh day.
The Catholic Church acknowledges changing the Sabbath day to the 1st day of the week, but they never cite a “Monday Calendar” as the reason for the change. Plus, they acknowledge there is no scriptural basis for the change.


The term "weekend" is not a Biblical term.It is a common term used today in secular society in reference to the end of most people's 9 to 5, Mon-Fri work routine. In the 15th century it meant from Saturday noon to Monday morning. See definition below...



weekend (n.) also week-end, 1630s, from week + end (n.). Originally a northern word (referring to the period from Saturday noon to Monday morning); it became general after 1878. As an adjective, "only on weekends," it is recorded from 1935. Long weekend attested from 1900; in reference to Great Britain in the period between the world wars, 1944.
Source: http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=weekend


What will people come up with next, a Wednesday as the 1st day of the week calendar?
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Default Re: Witnessing to a Seventh-Day Adventist - 06-24-2017, 08:04 PM

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Originally Posted by SouthernPride2017 View Post
Your calendar that begins with Monday as the first day of the week is ultimately wrong, given the fact that the calendar featuring Sunday as the first day of the week was out long before the European “Monday” calendar. However, the true Sabbath in Europe is observed during the same day of the week as it is in Israel, North America, S. America, and the same in Apostolic times in accordance with the respective time zones and Divine Scripture. Even after what Christians believe to be the “Resurrection”, the first Easter, the early Christians continued to worship on the Jewish Sabbath. BUT, they, like the Jews, continued to worship every day of the week. Even today, many Jewish groups have services every day of the week, though the Sabbath services are the most heavily attended. Some Christian churches also have daily services.
Eventually, though, the majority of the Christian churches started worshiping on Sunday, (a change without scriptural authority or merit) but there were many people who then complained that this was worshiping on the “First Day of the Week”, so some calendar makers may have cooperated by designing their calendars so that Sunday appeared to be the seventh day.
The Catholic Church acknowledges changing the Sabbath day to the 1st day of the week, but they never cite a “Monday Calendar” as the reason for the change. Plus, they acknowledge there is no scriptural basis for the change.


The term "weekend" is not a Biblical term.It is a common term used today in secular society in reference to the end of most people's 9 to 5, Mon-Fri work routine. In the 15th century it meant from Saturday noon to Monday morning. See definition below...



weekend (n.) also week-end, 1630s, from week + end (n.). Originally a northern word (referring to the period from Saturday noon to Monday morning); it became general after 1878. As an adjective, "only on weekends," it is recorded from 1935. Long weekend attested from 1900; in reference to Great Britain in the period between the world wars, 1944.
Source: http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=weekend


What will people come up with next, a Wednesday as the 1st day of the week calendar?



I would also like to add the fact that I go according to the Holy Bible in determining when the 7th day Sabbath begins and ends, and not some "Monday Calander" I recommend you do the same.

I don't get why this is so hard for people to comprehend this subject. It is like trying to reinvent the wheel or rewrite the Riemann hypothesis.
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Default Re: Witnessing to a Seventh-Day Adventist - 06-24-2017, 08:12 PM

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Originally Posted by Mister Brasil View Post
Thats one place. There are more. I looked it up. Use the words. Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

What kind of Christian doesn't abide in Christ. What is a Christian otherwise? If you're sinning you're not Christian.

Then you say a bunch of other stuff that doesn't matter. You think that makes you more smart but it makes you more tricky. Its not the same.

"What kind of Christian doesn't abide in Christ" you ask? Simple, the one who disobeys God.


Matt 7:21 ""Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."


Tricky? How do you figure? I am not trying to get anyone to mail me their saving account money or anything. If you sin, you are not abiding in Christ. I can't make it anymore simple. "Once saved always saved" is not gospel. You must abide in Christ or you will be lost. Read again Matt 7:21
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Default Re: Witnessing to a Seventh-Day Adventist - 06-24-2017, 08:18 PM

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Originally Posted by SouthernShame2017 View Post
"What kind of Christian doesn't abide in Christ" you ask? Simple, the one who disobeys God.


Matt 7:21 ""Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."


Tricky? How do you figure? I am not trying to get anyone to mail me their saving account money or anything. If you sin, you are not abiding in Christ. I can't make it anymore simple. "Once saved always saved" is not gospel. You must abide in Christ or you will be lost. Read again Matt 7:21
You conflate people who call themselves Christians with True Christians™, dear. This is a common mistake, but one Jesus does not make. The fact is, the Holy Bible tells us Christ will not allow the Enemy to take us away.

Or did you think Jesus was lying? Or incapable of keeping His promise?
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
John 10:28-29


Hello, my name is Mary. I hope to fellowship with you! That is, unless you don't listen to church authority (Deuteronomy 17:12); are a witch (Exodus 22:17); are a homosexual (Leviticus 20:13; Romans 1:24-32); or fortuneteller (Leviticus 20:27) or a snotty kid who hits their dad (Exodus 21:15); or curses their parents (Proverbs 20:20; Leviticus 20:9); an adulterer (Leviticus 20:10); a non-Christian (Exodus 22:19; Deuteronomy 13:7-12; Deuteronomy 17:2-5;Romans 1:24-32); an atheist (2 Chronicles 15:12-13); or false prophet (Zechariah 13:3); from the town of one who worships another, false god (Deuteronomy 13:13-19); were a non-virgin bride (Deuteronomy 22:20-21); or blasphemer (Leviticus 24:10-16), as God calls for your execution and will no doubt send you to Hell, and I have no interest developing a friendship with the Spiritually Walking Dead.

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Default Re: Witnessing to a Seventh-Day Adventist - 06-24-2017, 08:45 PM

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Originally Posted by SouthernShame2017 View Post
Tricky? How do you figure? I am not trying to get anyone to mail me their saving account money or anything. If you sin, you are not abiding in Christ. I can't make it anymore simple. "Once saved always saved" is not gospel. You must abide in Christ or you will be lost. Read again Matt 7:21
Tricky because Matthew 7 doesn't say that the saved will get unsaved. You say one thing. Then you quote the Bible and it doesn't say what you said. Like when you say Saturday and Bible says 7th day. If the Bible doesn't say what you want then you make me look it up like 1 John 3 and you say other stuff that doesn't matter. I looked it up.

Christian is just Christian. It is not somebody who doesn't obey Christ. Christian does not mean you say Lord Lord. If you sin you're not Christian. If you sinned you weren't Christian then or before. 1 John 3:6 says so. That's gospel. You say it's not.

Honesty don't need tricks. Jews didn't want Christ any how. I don't know what you want you want me to hate Jesus you want me to disobey God. I'm glad you talk like that so I can tell. You won't listen but try to find Jesus.


Acts 13:8 And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?
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Default Re: Witnessing to a Seventh-Day Adventist - 06-24-2017, 09:56 PM

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Tricky because Matthew 7 doesn't say that the saved will get unsaved. You say one thing. Then you quote the Bible and it doesn't say what you said. Like when you say Saturday and Bible says 7th day. If the Bible doesn't say what you want then you make me look it up like 1 John 3 and you say other stuff that doesn't matter. I looked it up." Did you actually have an adult in the household who is literate enough to read the scripture to you, along with what I said in this forum? You mentioned Matt 7, there are 29 verses, which one are you referring to? I quoted from it in regards to a response to Elmer in regards to not judging others Matt 7:1-3 And why would you look up a Bible reference that I provided and reasonably expect to see "Satruday" written in it? No day of the week as currently named will be found in the Bible, not even Sunday or the other days. They are mentioned by numerical sequence, and the Sabbath is day #7.

"Christian is just Christian. It is not somebody who doesn't obey Christ. Christian does not mean you say Lord Lord. If you sin you're not Christian. If you sinned you weren't Christian then or before. 1 John 3:6 says so. That's gospel. You say it's not." All have sinned Rom 3:23" 1 John 3:6 is right on point with what I said, and I stand by it. Here it is again in quotes "No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him." So if you are NOT sinning then you ARE abiding in him. If however, you are NOT obeying him, then you MUST BE sinning. Sin is the transgression of the law. Plenty of people have been baptized, go to chruch, say they are Christian and willfully sin! They think "Ah once saved always saved, I can do what I want, I don't have to obey God" or "I don't have to obey the 4 Commandment for Sabbath worship, I will follow the Catholic Church and worship on Sunday even though I am not Catholic." If you find yourself thinking that way, you had better wake up (and I say that kindly) and take a cold shower real quick!

Read Matthew 13:24-30 "Another parable He put forth to them, saying: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; 25 but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. 26 But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. 27 So the servants of the owner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ 28 He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ The servants said to him, ‘Do you want us then to go and gather them up?’ 29 But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.”’” This parable is in reference to those who are true to God and those who are not. They are not easily discernible at first. The "Harvest time" is the judgement time.

How about Matt 13:1-9 "
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Originally Posted by Mister Brasil View Post
13 Later that same day Jesus left the house and sat beside the lake. 2 A large crowd soon gathered around him, so he got into a boat. Then he sat there and taught as the people stood on the shore. 3 He told many stories in the form of parables, such as this one:
“Listen! A farmer went out to plant some seeds. 4 As he scattered them across his field, some seeds fell on a footpath, and the birds came and ate them. 5 Other seeds fell on shallow soil with underlying rock. The seeds sprouted quickly because the soil was shallow. 6 But the plants soon wilted under the hot sun, and since they didn’t have deep roots, they died. 7 Other seeds fell among thorns that grew up and choked out the tender plants. 8 Still other seeds fell on fertile soil, and they produced a crop that was thirty, sixty, and even a hundred times as much as had been planted! 9 Anyone with ears to hear should listen and understand.” This refers to different groups of believers in Christ. Some will grow spiritually, and others will be more concerned about the cares and worries and love of riches in this life.





Read the parable of the wedding feast Matt 22:1-14 The "wedding garment" is the righteousness of Christ. The man who appeared without out one was thrown out. Those that were invited were too busy with there worldly possessions to attend the feast. What I am saying, so that you don't get confused is: you (me) and everyone else needs the righteousness of Christ, and we must abide in him to keep it. If we disobey, we break that union with Christ. So yes, one can claim to be a Christian and still end up being lost if they fail to abide in Christ. It is freedom of choice, God does not make people follow him. People who cling to sin, will leave God with no choice but to separate them from his flock.



"Honesty don't need tricks. Jews didn't want Christ any how. I don't know what you want you want me to hate Jesus you want me to disobey God. I'm glad you talk like that so I can tell. You won't listen but try to find Jesus.
" Hate Jesus??? Disobey God??What are you talking about??? Are you drunk or just really dim witted??? Both perhaps? Go to the fridge and pour out down the drain whatever it is you have been drinking.....On the contrary, Love Jesus and obey God. Man o man....space cadet graduate week! They really do need to ban alcohol! Listen, it is real S-I-M-P-L-E.... if you love Jesus keep his commandments. John 14:15 Read it 1000 or 10000 more times if you must in order for it to sink in real good. Brasil, I will extend you the benefit of the doubt, and assume that you are not fluent in English as the reason why you are so dull.

I don't intend to be mean to you, but man you REALLY are not that bright. A 6 year old would understand my point better than you. You don't get it, dull minded. Elmer Fudd, help this guy out.....man o man.
Everything I have said is right from scripture and in accordance with the Holy word.
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Default Re: Witnessing to a Seventh-Day Adventist - 06-24-2017, 10:06 PM

Are you SouthernPride? Your making people to fool me. I learned Don't double down on dumb A long time ago. I told you why you sound tricky and you act more tricky than before.

Go ahead and tell me I'm dumb. I'm strong I don't care. I'm not dumb I'm American. If Satan works he works like you. Find Jesus.

God knows what day Sabbath is. He made some of us to know and some of to be fooled. If He made me to be fooled then that's God and I'll know when I die. But I think He made you to be foolish.


Acts 13:8 And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?
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Default Re: Witnessing to a Seventh-Day Adventist - 06-24-2017, 10:50 PM

What a shame that there's nobody else here to appreciate the absurdity. Two pigeons playing chess. The match of the century: Rasputin vs. Shallow Blue.

"For Jesus so loved the world..." Except for the slow ones, I guess. See ya in Hell!

Rasputin coming here to save a few souls, drowning people in irrelevancies. And you know what Raspberry? You're right. Sabbath is Saturday. Sunday Sabbath is totally indefensible.

But your god cares? Why? Why would he possibly?

If I wasn't sure before (but I was), this would seal it. If god wants to send DDs to hell for not following some invisible calendar in the sky, then he's not a god to whom I'm interested in paying much attention. If that means I burn, well, then at least I lived right, rather than letting my fear of a divine pedantic retard-burner intimidate me.

Okay, I'm done. Infract away.
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Default Re: Witnessing to a Seventh-Day Adventist - 06-24-2017, 11:12 PM

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...then he's not a god to whom I'm interested in paying much attention.
I see what you did there - you basically said that you want to worship a god who believes exactly the same things as you believe.

This works out that you want to worship yourself.

God has no time for narcissists and neither do I. When you get down from your own ass, let me know.





“We must reassert that the essence of Christianity is the love of obedience to God’s Laws and that how that complete obedience is used or implemented does not concern us.”

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Map of the Known World; Periodic Table of Elements; The History of Linguistics; The Errors of Wicca; Dolphins and Evolution; The History of Landover (The Apology); Landover and the Civil War; 2000 Racial Slurs.
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Default Re: Witnessing to a Seventh-Day Adventist - 06-25-2017, 01:29 AM

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Originally Posted by SouthernShame2017 View Post
I would also like to add the fact that I go according to the Holy Bible in determining when the 7th day Sabbath begins and ends, and not some "Monday Calander" I recommend you do the same.
Quote:
I don't get why this is so hard for people to comprehend this subject. It is like trying to reinvent the wheel or rewrite the Riemann hypothesis.
The purpose of including a Monday calander was to demonstrate that there is not agreement on where to start counting from. International standard ISO 8601, the basis for the meteorological calendar I showed you, has Monday as the first day of the week. James Ussher held that creation commenced on Sunday 23rd October 4004BC but others see this as a different day. Perhaps in your introduction you could comment on which day you consider that to be and whether you'd prefer a different date? You will need to explain which calendar you're using for reasons already covered.

In earlier posts God's opinion on observance, or non-observance, of particular days (or of no days) has been cited. That is called evidence and is something you need to include to support claims. They are not the same and you have not presented any evidence to support your claim that we should start counting from Sunday. Here is God's decision about special days in full:


ROMANS 14 . KJV . CONTEXT
1
Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations..
5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6a He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord;
6b He that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it.
6c He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks;
6d He that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
7-8 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself. For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.





None of the cultists we've had along so far have responded to God's explicit statement on the subject. Perhaps you could do so? That would be great. For those who do esteem one day above another however there are other calendric details to consider. Twice now there's been an opportunity for you to present your definition of a day. Genesis 1 does not define a day but rather presupposes that readers already know what a day is. There are numerous standards. One is based on the position of the sun in the sky and can be measured with a sundial. Another system uses a candle as illustrated. Now as we know the sun may be moved backwards in the sky or remain stationary for extended periods. On one occasion it went out altogether but then shadow clocks would be useless of course so I think we can be pretty sure there were candle clocks available to measure how long the sun went out for. When factored in to your calculations you need to know how long the sun went backwards for, how long it remained stationary for and how long it went out for, together with evidence for where the day count was resumed from.

Concerning the Julian calendar..and any other calendars such as the Chinese or meso-American versions..any calculations become nebulous because it's necessary to define other units of time. If a day is 24 hours then what is an hour? The only available definition until recently was the 24th division of a day but, as I've shown, a day cannot be considered a consistent unit. If, during a period when the sun was moving backwards, a shadow clock showed a different time from a candle clock which day-length would you use for the subdivision? Similarly, one may say that an hour is 60 minutes. But a minute is by definition the 60th division of an hour. What is a minute? It is 60 seconds. Now here at last we come to a solid definition. A second, the current SI unit of time, is defined as the duration of 9,192,631,770 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between the two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the caesium 133 atom.


Here is what you need to do. First, establish on what day creation commenced which is the day from which you start counting. Second, establish your definition of a day. You will need to account for odd length days and remember if you're using periods of light and darkness to count off the days you need to account for periods when the sun went out and show how long they lasted for. If on the other hand you're going for the International System of Units then, thirdly, you need to show correlation between that system and the system used in The Bible down to the second.

The reason for that is because a second's error at midnight, or sunset or sunrise or wherever one day turns into the next, means that timed events fall in a different day. One example is Easter. Taken as the first Friday after the first full moon after the equinox, and there are other definitions but this is just an example, well that depends when the equinox occurs. If it occurs at 23:59:59 on Thursday when there was already a full moon you'd get one date, according to what you thought Thursday was. But if calculated to be 00:00:01 on Friday there'd be a difference of one month. You'd need to wait for the next full moon. You're looking at much finer differences than that and therefore need to supply the information as detailed.
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Default Re: Witnessing to a Seventh-Day Adventist - 06-25-2017, 02:14 AM

Mitza I don't think its that complex. I been working on it since wkc or who ever started talking. I found the 10 commandments. Their in Exodus 20. This is 8-10.

Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

It don't say to work three days then keep the forth day holy then work six more days then keep that next day holy. I was born on Wensday.

If God means Sunday He would say Sunday but He don't. That's what our guests keep saying but He don't say Saturday either.

God always means just what He says. If He says work 6 days then keep the Sabbath He means work 6 days then keep the Sabbath. At first I thought ok then Sabbath is Tuesday. Then I thought maybe he meant conseption but I don't know what day I couldn't work anyway. Then I figured it out. God means when we become Christian when we get baptized.

I called my brother when I get baptized and he said Sunday. At first I thought that meant Sabbath is Saturday but my brother said Sunday doesn't count because it's 0 not 1. Just like God says Christians can't do wrong. And SouthernPride or who ever you are saying Christian don't mean Christian just like me saying I'm rich don't mean I'm rich but I don't say that. I been doing it right all along by doing it on Sunday.


Acts 13:8 And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?
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Default Re: Witnessing to a Seventh-Day Adventist - 06-25-2017, 02:50 AM

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Originally Posted by Mister Brasil View Post
complex
I accept your view that it's not complex. To me it seems very simple. If someone wants to keep a special day, any special day, that's fine. Or no special day at all. That's OK too. God says it. That settles it.

The complexity comes in when people have been indoctrinated. Either they agree with The Bible or they do not. If they do not then why do they call themselves Christians?

They should just give it away altogether.

But if they accept that Christ's sacrifice was real, that it broke the power of sin by God's intervention in a contaminated world, they really do need to accept the reasons why the world was contaminated in the first place. We learn that from The Bible. But if The Bible is false, as these Adventist claims necessarily hold it to be, they should stop indoctrinating their children with lies.

It's that simple.
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Default Re: Witnessing to a Seventh-Day Adventist - 07-01-2017, 04:25 PM

Oh, look who's back, and just as coherent as ever. Joy.


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...John3:16 says it all...
Then what's the point of the other 820,000 words in the Bible?


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Default Re: Witnessing to a Seventh-Day Adventist - 11-04-2017, 08:24 PM

Dude, you really, really, look and sound like a serial killer, ya know! (yikes) "Nobody here to appreciate..." a chess game between pigeons?? What? Do you have children tied up in your basement, while you watch pigeons as you sharpen your axe?


If I were a Hollywood producer or casting director, I would DEFINITELY hire you for the role of a serial killer over any other prospects out there, hands down. Norman Bates, step aside, you have met your match! lol.


You have "creepy" all to yourself.....
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Default Re: Witnessing to a Seventh-Day Adventist - 11-04-2017, 08:31 PM

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Dude, you really, really, look and sound like a serial killer, ya know!...
John 7:24 "Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment."

So goes another day in my life, trying to teach "Christians" how to "Christian".

If I can poke holes so ridiculously easily, how do you think Jesus is going to treat you?


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Default Re: Witnessing to a Seventh-Day Adventist - 11-04-2017, 08:35 PM

The "Creepy" comment was meant in reply to Stu Peppock. Guy looks like a serial killer/pedophile. Probably has a basement like in the movie Silence of the Lambs, complete with mannequin and skin, and of course the music that they played in that scene.


Seriously though, you need to get in front of a casting director ASAP. You could really give Danny Trejo a run. They are always looking for people to play the role of scumbag or psychopath, and you could earn top dollar no doubt! Ted Levine has nothing on you my friend!
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Default Re: Witnessing to a Seventh-Day Adventist - 11-04-2017, 08:49 PM

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Originally Posted by RenouceYourSins2017 View Post
The "Creepy" comment was meant in reply to Stu Peppock. Guy looks like a serial killer/pedophile...
And John 7:24 still says that Jesus hates you.


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Default Re: Witnessing to a Seventh-Day Adventist - 11-04-2017, 09:29 PM

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Originally Posted by RenouceYourSins2017 View Post
Some posters here are struggling with their faith and we try to support them in their moment of crisis.

If you'd like to contribute to the topic, perhaps you could answer some of the questions I asked..I think they were quite clear..concerning when we're supposed to start counting from and how the odd-lengthed days have been accommodated.

An answer is not someone telling us what they "know" or what The Bible "explains" without evidence. In the second case, post the Bible passage. Here is the KJV site.



Otherwise, depending on what you're claiming, cite the source for your "knowledge" so that we can be informed too.

Thanks.
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