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Reload this Page The Euthyphro Dilemma - Is morality objective or subjective?
View Poll Results: Which is it? Morality is:
Objective to God and objective to humans 1 16.67%
Objective to God and subjective to humans 1 16.67%
Subjective to God and objective to humans 3 50.00%
Subjective to God and subjective to humans 1 16.67%
Voters: 6. You may not vote on this poll

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Default The Euthyphro Dilemma - Is morality objective or subjective? - 08-29-2012, 09:54 PM

Brothers and sisters, today I was reading an article whose author suggested that morality is confronted by the "Euthyphro dilemma". That is, whether what is called "good" is good because God loves it, or God calls it "good" because it is inherently good.

If a moral standard is inherently good, then it is objective morality.

If a moral standard is good because God says so, then it is a subjective and relativistic morality.

Subjective, that is, to God.

The particular author insists that morality cannot be objective, because if it were, all religions would promote the same morals.

What do you think? Is morality:
Objective to God and to humans, which means an objective standard exists separate from both God and humans; it's just "good";

Objective to God and subjective to humans, which makes no sense at all because it'd mean humans can determine what's good but God cannot;

Subjective to God and objective to humans, meaning that God subjectively decides what is good, and humans have to accept that; or

Subjective to God and subjective to humans, meaning that God decides what is good, but humans can also decide what is good.


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Default Re: The Euthyphro Dilemma - Is morality objective or subjective? - 08-29-2012, 10:15 PM

This is a pretty simple question.

We know that
  • God is perfect as He says so in The Bible
  • Humans, who were created by God, are worthless scum and should shut up and do as God says so before He burns us.
Therefor morality is objective to God, subjective to humans (as in subjected to what God tells them is morality)

We know morality is inherently good because God says so.

How do we know this? Simple; everyone who has disagreed with God's morality has ended up burning in Hell for all eternity.



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Default Re: The Euthyphro Dilemma - Is morality objective or subjective? - 08-29-2012, 11:09 PM

GOOD without GOD is O.


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Default Re: The Euthyphro Dilemma - Is morality objective or subjective? - 08-30-2012, 11:23 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby-Joe View Post
This is a pretty simple question.

We know that
  • God is perfect as He says so in The Bible
  • Humans, who were created by God, are worthless scum and should shut up and do as God says so before He burns us.
Therefor morality is objective to God, subjective to humans (as in subjected to what God tells them is morality)

We know morality is inherently good because God says so.

How do we know this? Simple; everyone who has disagreed with God's morality has ended up burning in Hell for all eternity.
So you're gods bitch?


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Default Re: The Euthyphro Dilemma - Is morality objective or subjective? - 08-30-2012, 12:36 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaz1218 View Post
So you're gods bitch?
God doesn't have pets.
He already got the Angels to fetch His slippers.


"And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."
John 8:32
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Default Re: The Euthyphro Dilemma - Is morality objective or subjective? - 08-30-2012, 12:41 PM

What ever God says is the way it must be.

Seems pretty clear, me. Even an atheiotardist should be able to understand that.

YIC


1 Corinthians 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

Revelation 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
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Default Re: The Euthyphro Dilemma - Is morality objective or subjective? - 08-30-2012, 12:56 PM

Without God anything is acceptable. If most people in a society say that killing babies is morally right then within that society then it is right, that is why atheism is so dangerous, just look at Stalin as an example. With God we know what is right or wrong because He tells us. We know that killing babies is without exception* going to be morally wrong because we have God.

YIC

Jack


*unless He tells us to obviously.
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Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.




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Default Re: The Euthyphro Dilemma - Is morality objective or subjective? - 08-30-2012, 01:04 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev. M. Rodimer View Post
Brothers and sisters, today I was reading an article whose author suggested that morality is confronted by the "Euthyphro dilemma". That is, whether what is called "good" is good because God loves it, or God calls it "good" because it is inherently good.

If a moral standard is inherently good, then it is objective morality.

If a moral standard is good because God says so, then it is a subjective and relativistic morality.

Subjective, that is, to God.

The particular author insists that morality cannot be objective, because if it were, all religions would promote the same morals.

What do you think? Is morality:
Objective to God and to humans, which means an objective standard exists separate from both God and humans; it's just "good";

Objective to God and subjective to humans, which makes no sense at all because it'd mean humans can determine what's good but God cannot;

Subjective to God and objective to humans, meaning that God subjectively decides what is good, and humans have to accept that; or

Subjective to God and subjective to humans, meaning that God decides what is good, but humans can also decide what is good.
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Default Re: The Euthyphro Dilemma - Is morality objective or subjective? - 08-30-2012, 01:05 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack O'fagan View Post
Without God anything is acceptable. If most people in a society say that killing babies is morally right then within that society then it is right, that is why atheism is so dangerous, just look at Stalin as an example. With God we know what is right or wrong because He tells us. We know that killing babies is without exception* going to be morally wrong because we have God.

YIC

Jack


*unless He tells us to then obviously.
1 Samuel 15:3
Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.




.
Amen Brother!

I am so glad that I've found Jesus. As you point out, otherwise I would never had known that killing babies for fun is wrong.


"And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."
John 8:32
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Default Re: The Euthyphro Dilemma - Is morality objective or subjective? - 08-30-2012, 01:35 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaz1218 View Post
So you're gods bitch?
Are you Satan's bitch? Have fun taking a demon's barbed tallywacker up your behind in hell.



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Default Re: The Euthyphro Dilemma - Is morality objective or subjective? - 08-30-2012, 01:46 PM

After thinking about this most of the night, I decided to go with the last one. We are God's subjects, so we need to be subjective to Him. And since we, His subjects, are created in His image, He isn't an object, He's like a person, so I guess He is subjective too. I hope I picked right, I certainly don't want to make God mad by picking the wrong answer.




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Default Re: The Euthyphro Dilemma - Is morality objective or subjective? - 08-30-2012, 02:59 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt. Aaron Portway View Post
After thinking about this most of the night, I decided to go with the last one. We are God's subjects, so we need to be subjective to Him. And since we, His subjects, are created in His image, He isn't an object, He's like a person, so I guess He is subjective too. I hope I picked right, I certainly don't want to make God mad by picking the wrong answer.
I disagree with the last part; God is the most objective creature ever. We know this because God says so. I have touched upon this subject here.



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Default Re: The Euthyphro Dilemma - Is morality objective or subjective? - 08-30-2012, 04:20 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt. Aaron Portway View Post
After thinking about this most of the night, I decided to go with the last one. We are God's subjects, so we need to be subjective to Him. And since we, His subjects, are created in His image, He isn't an object, He's like a person, so I guess He is subjective too. I hope I picked right, I certainly don't want to make God mad by picking the wrong answer.
God is angry. You have said that humans get to decide for themselves what is right and wrong.

I'm pretty sure that's blasphemy . . .


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Default Re: The Euthyphro Dilemma - Is morality objective or subjective? - 08-30-2012, 04:28 PM

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Originally Posted by Chaz1218 View Post
So you're gods bitch?
An unusual way to phrase it, but essentially true.

We have to do whatever He demands from us to be allowed in Heaven. Which is only fair as He created us, Heaven, Hell and the rules.


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Default Re: The Euthyphro Dilemma - Is morality objective or subjective? - 08-30-2012, 04:30 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev. M. Rodimer View Post
God is angry. You have said that humans get to decide for themselves what is right and wrong.

I'm pretty sure that's blasphemy . . .
Speaking of anal sex, Reverend, I would like to state for the record that it is most certainly objectively wrong.

Morality is subjective to God, because He derives it from His own Divine Nature through self-knowledge. It is objective to us, because we receive it in the form of eternal and immutable Laws.


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Default Re: The Euthyphro Dilemma - Is morality objective or subjective? - 08-30-2012, 04:33 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Bob Jenkins View Post
Speaking of anal sex, Reverend, I would like to state for the record that it is most certainly objectively wrong.

Morality is subjective to God, because He derives it from His own Divine Nature through self-knowledge. It is objective to us, because we receive it in the form of eternal and immutable Laws.
Well said, Brother!

I just hope Portway won't get confused about objects and anuses, now.


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Default Re: The Euthyphro Dilemma - Is morality objective or subjective? - 08-30-2012, 04:36 PM

Dear Billy Bob Jenkins,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Bob Jenkins View Post
Morality is subjective to God, because He derives it from His own Divine Nature through self-knowledge. It is objective to us, because we receive it in the form of eternal and immutable Laws.
The Bible teaches us that God is unchanging or immutable (Psalm 102:25-27; Hebrews 1:10-12; 13:8), wise (Proverbs 3:19; Romans 16:26-27; 1 Timothy 1:17) true and truth (Psalm 31:5; John 14:6; John 17:3; Titus 1:1-2).

It seems to me this leaves only room for absolute and objective truth.

Yours in Christ,

Pastor J.C. Manning, M.D., Ph.D.


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2. Be willing to turn from sin (repent). Acts 17:30
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Lord Jesus, I know that I have sinned against you.
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Lord Jesus, I ask you to forgive me. I do not rely
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Default Re: The Euthyphro Dilemma - Is morality objective or subjective? - 08-30-2012, 04:55 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastor J.C. Manning, M.D., Ph.D. View Post
Dear Billy Bob Jenkins,

The Bible teaches us that God is unchanging or immutable (Psalm 102:25-27; Hebrews 1:10-12; 13:8), wise (Proverbs 3:19; Romans 16:26-27; 1 Timothy 1:17) true and truth (Psalm 31:5; John 14:6; John 17:3; Titus 1:1-2).

It seems to me this leaves only room for absolute and objective truth.

Yours in Christ,

Pastor J.C. Manning, M.D., Ph.D.
AMEN BROTHER!!! God is eternal and unchanging indeed! I am so thankful that His Will does not permit me to bury my intumescent tallywacker in the warmth of another man's butt! Think of the anarchistic deeds that men would perform with each other if morality were subjective! Not to mention with beasts and women! In the heat of the day, slathered in feces, eating one another's buttholes like moist jelly donuts. Where do sinners find justification for these abominations, if not in the hatred of Jesus and the will to crucify Him again?


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