Quote:
Originally Posted by Traveling Engineer
If you read the verse before the one you mentioned in Timothy, you see that Paul had just mentioned elders. Do you think possibly he is commanding public shaming of elders who are sinning?
1 Timothy 5:19-20
(19) Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses.
(20) Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.
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Darling engineer,
I do not refer lightly to
any other version of the Bible except the
KJV but here we unfortunately need to go to the
Greek text. It is
notoriously complex and the many textual variants diminish its value compared to the KJV, but sometimes (when educating the masses and you) it is
necessary.
Let us look at
1 Timothy 5:20 in Greek
τοὺς (δὲ) ἁμαρτάνοντας ἐνώπιον πάντων ἔλεγχε, ἵνα καὶ οἱ λοιποὶ φόβον ἔχωσιν.
As you can see, the
(δὲ) is in brackets. Why? Because no-one knows if it was there in the beginning. The WH has it, while,
e.g., the Byz ς doesn't. Does it
matter? It does. It is the particle that can be translated as "
however". If the particle is there, it would be quite
reasonable to understand 1 Timothy 5:20 as the continuation of 1 Timothy 5:19. In fact, quite a few commentaries, apparently those that you're familiar with, such as Cambridge Bible, tentatively suggest that this still deals with "elders", while,
e.g., Jamieson-Fausset-Brown and Poole
disagree and widen the scope to
all sinners. Do
you think that the (δὲ) is original and how does it influence
your view about this matter?
No, let's go on.
1 Timothy 5:20, KJV
Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.
What about the
last part of the verse? ...
ἵνα καὶ οἱ λοιποὶ φόβον ἔχωσιν. This is
crystal clear. No matter if the public reproof is targeted at "elders" or the common sinner, it is still
necessary to make everyone fear God (Ecclesiastes 12:13), no matter if they're teenagers or demented old timers.
Fear. Jesus may have treated the sinners in various manners during His short presence on earth, but when He
returns, He's promised to subject them
all to
all the
Tribulations: poisoning the seas, burning forests, poisoning their freshwater sources, causing war and famine, releasing poisonous animals to torture them and eventually first killing off one third of them with an army of angels and thereafter
personally administering the smiting of all the rest with His personal
sword.
To avoid that, we need to tell the masses that unless they discard their abominable ways, that is going to be their fate.
Quote:
And can you tell me about any evangelism and outreach you do (like on the street)? Do people respond well to your message?
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The
response is what
Jesus told us to expect.
Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Of course,
lying about God loving everyone
etc. would obviously attract
more people, but in the long run lying will only lead them into
Hell, which leads us to your final question...
Quote:
One more question, if I may. Do you mind explaining why you have 2 Kings 18:25 in your signature box?
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You may. Many people, including lots of false Christians and priests claim that they have the Word of
God and preach to their congregation lies about the
Bible. They
boast that they know God's Will but
disregard the totality of the Bible. In the end, this is only malice and blasphemy. Their fate will
not be the nicest one.
Yours in Christ,
Elmer