The introduction forum Attention Unsaved Trash: This the ONLY subforum you can start threads in. Here is where you introduce yourself. Tell us what church you go to and what your favorite Bible verse is and how you came to find Jesus. |
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Gushing for Jesus
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Posts: 23,729
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Location: Freehold, Iowa
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Re: I want to understand this forum, and you, dear reader. -
02-26-2019, 09:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by IWantToUnderstand
Again, I apologise for my phrasing. I am still young and learning how to express myself clearly.
By "you can't have both" I meant you have to choose to either believe all of Science or all of the Holy Bible, as Basilissa has said.
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It sounds as if you expect there to be a zero-sum game here: Either the Bible is correct and science is wrong, or science is correct and the Bible is wrong. Consider that true science reflects Jesus' early handiwork, the natural world. Those who are honest recognize the Holy Bible was the very first scientific research paper in existence! Consider the following:
- Both man and woman possess the seed of life (Genesis 3:15); discovered by man in 17th century
- Earth is held in place by invisible forces (Job 26:7); discovered by man in 1650
- Blood is necessary for life (Leviticus 17:11); discovered by man in 19th century
- Oceans have natural paths in them (Psalms 8:8); discovered by man in 1854
- Light is a particle and has mass (a photon) (Job 38:19); discovered by man in 1932
- Stars give off signals (Job 38:7); discovered by man in 1945
- Oceans contain fresh water springs (Job 38:16); discovered by man in 1920
- Dust is important to survival (Isaiah 40:12); discovered by man in 1935
- Hubert Spencer's scientific principles (Genesis 1); discovered by man in 1820
- Air has weight (Job 28:25); discovered by man in the 17th century
- Light can be split up into component colors (Job 38:24); discovered by man in 1650
- Matter is made up of invisible particles (Romans 1:20); discovered by man in 20th century
- Water cycle (Ecclesiastes 1:7); discovered by man in 17th century
- Lightning and thunder are related (Job 38:25); discovered by man in 19th century
Hello, my name is Mary. I hope to fellowship with you! That is, unless you don't listen to church authority (Deuteronomy 17:12); are a witch (Exodus 22:17); are a homosexual (Leviticus 20:13; Romans 1:24-32); or fortuneteller (Leviticus 20:27) or a snotty kid who hits their dad (Exodus 21:15); or curses their parents (Proverbs 20:20; Leviticus 20:9); an adulterer (Leviticus 20:10); a non-Christian (Exodus 22:19; Deuteronomy 13:7-12; Deuteronomy 17:2-5;Romans 1:24-32); an atheist (2 Chronicles 15:12-13); or false prophet (Zechariah 13:3); from the town of one who worships another, false god (Deuteronomy 13:13-19); were a non-virgin bride (Deuteronomy 22:20-21); or blasphemer (Leviticus 24:10-16), as God calls for your execution and will no doubt send you to Hell, and I have no interest developing a friendship with the Spiritually Walking Dead.
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True Christian™ Just a Regular Nice Guy
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Posts: 29,835
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Between Lynchburg and Walton's Mountain
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Re: I want to understand this forum, and you, dear reader. -
02-26-2019, 09:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by IWantToUnderstand
The purpose of this account was to ask some questions, which I have done. I might create a proper account in the near future. I agree that this post was against forum rules, and I am grateful to you for letting it slide long enough for me to gain knowledge and understanding - I can help you understand the Atheist mindset in return if you like; though I think you already understand it quite well.
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Oh we understand you. We see people lioke you every day. Ignorant , popous and self righteous, thinking "I can fool the dumb old Christians."
Atheists are simply people who are destined to burn in Hell for all of eternity. Now, if one of you people had an open mind, we could help you. That is what we do. Help people understand. We cannot do that if you are close minded. Open your eyes.
Also understand, the DoF keeps a very close eye in the interwebs and thanks to proprietary tools provided by Al Gore and utilized in the JesOS Ver. 10.7, it is near impossible to have a second account. Just like you get one life. There is no such thing as Second Life.
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Amos 3:6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?
Numbers 21:6 And the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died.
Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
Matthew 10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
Matthew 10:36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
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South of the Border outreach program True Christian™
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Re: I want to understand this forum, and you, dear reader. -
02-26-2019, 09:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by IWantToUnderstand
If there's one point on which I can agree with you, it's that. One must choose between Science and Religion - you can't have both.
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In your reply, you have omitted a very important word here - paradigm.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The dictionary
Paradigm
3 : a philosophical and theoretical framework of a scientific school or discipline within which theories, laws, and generalizations and the experiments performed in support of them are formulated
the Freudian paradigm of psychoanalysis
broadly : a philosophical or theoretical framework of any kind
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It is the scientific paradigm that we reject. We do approve of science - as already pointed out by Sister Mary E., we have an entire forum dedicated to Creation Science - as long as that science confirms what we already know is true because the Bible tells us so. In other words, we are OK with science as long as it is done within the framework of the Biblical paradigm. Here is an example of a scientific report written within the Biblical paradigm.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IWantToUnderstand
The purpose of this account was to ask some questions, which I have done. I might create a proper account in the near future.
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No need to do so. You already have one account, why in the world would you want to have two?
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Completely CRAZY for the Lord
True Christian™
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Re: I want to understand this forum, and you, dear reader. -
02-26-2019, 10:25 PM
God describes two distinct categories of science.
Daniel 1:3-6 And the king spake unto Ashpenaz the master of his eunuchs, that he should bring certain of the children of Israel, and of the king's seed, and of the princes; Children in whom was no blemish, but well favoured, and skilful in all wisdom, and cunning in knowledge, and understanding science, and such as had ability in them to stand in the king's palace, and whom they might teach the learning and the tongue of the Chaldeans. And the king appointed them a daily provision of the king's meat, and of the wine which he drank: so nourishing them three years, that at the end thereof they might stand before the king. Now among these were of the children of Judah, Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah. The wonderful events following on may be read by clicking the reference header. Similarly when Paul wrote to encourage Timothy he knew about the nonsense coming from naturalistic belief systems around that time and before resulting in fools such as Archimedes, Euclid and Heron of Alexandria. Soon their falsehoods were to be crushed but in the meantime danger was abroad.
I Timothy 6:20-21a O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science.falsely.so.called which some professing have erred concerning the faith. The distinction is made quite plain and the ideas circulating then are easy enough to discover although Paul does not specify which "scientists" particularly, no doubt wishing to avoid unnecessary publicity.
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Pastor for Diversity and Tolerance Christ's Rottweiler
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Posts: 22,727
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Toiling selflessly towards Salvation
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Re: I want to understand this forum, and you, dear reader. -
02-26-2019, 10:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by IWantToUnderstand
Ezekiel Bathfire, thank you for your clear reply. Yes, Logic is a syllogism, and I have defined it using the three official laws of logic. Do you agree with them?
i) Argument 'x' cannot both be true and untrue
ii)Argument 'x' must be either true or untrue
iii)If argument 'x' is true, it is indeed true
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You missed out a word...
If you read the Bible and miss out words, it is small wonder that you think that there are discrepancies within its Holy Pages.
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PHD - Theophysicist Saving The Lost With The Truth Of Applied Theoscience
True Christian™
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: In the Lamb's book of life
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Re: I want to understand this forum, and you, dear reader. -
02-27-2019, 11:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by IWantToUnderstand
What would it take to convince you to change your faith? Be honest. If the Muslim god came down from the heavens and spoke to you, would you change your mind?
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I could not change my mind even if I witnessed a wonder or miracle.
Deut 13:1-3
1 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder,
2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;
3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the Lord your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
The written record of the miracles performed by Jesus 2,000 years ago is more than enough to convince me I'm right.
Jn 10:25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
I trust the Bible more than I trust my own eyes and ears.
I could not change my mind by hearing a false teacher.
Gal 1:8-9
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
I could not change my mind through reasoning.
For I did not reach my position through reason.
1 Cor 2:13-14
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
I could not change my mind if secular science proved the Bible wrong.
1 Tim 6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:
For example, I know science has proved prayer doesn't work (and in fact may be harmful), but I still pray.
I could not change my mind. PERIOD.
I do not have the power to change my mind about God; He has made up His mind about me. He has chosen me. He has saved me and made me one of His people. And there is nothing that can change that.
Jn 10:27-29
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
Phil 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
Rom 11:28-29
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
There would be no point in you trying to change my mind or in me trying to re-examine my beliefs. The only way I could change my mind is if I somehow lost my faith first. Then I would know the above passages were wrong. But that can't happen because the Bible says so.
As I think Sister Mitza mentioned, you seem misunderstand what an argument is. I have written a short guide which you may find enlightening.
In His grip,
P. P.
| Mt 21:42, 44 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes . . . ? And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
Find out what the Bible says about: Fortnite: Battle Royale, asexuality, shaving, psychiatry, chronic fatigue syndrome, babies |
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Completely CRAZY for the Lord
True Christian™
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Re: I want to understand this forum, and you, dear reader. -
02-27-2019, 02:09 PM
You know I never understood before that we're not the ones who choose to believe in God. Even though we're unworthy of Redemption it is by Christ that we believe. If this applied to everyone there'd be no point choosing us (over everyone else) because there'd be nothing to distinguish us from them. The topic would simply not arise.
I Peter 1:18-21 Ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. We have been rescued from the everlasting torment described in The Bible and have no choice what we believe because it's in The Spirit sustaining us by which that belief comes. A bit like if you breathe air with fumes in it whatever's in the fumes gets in your blood. That eucalyptus stuff with a towel over your head when you've got a cough, for example.
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True Christian™ Just a Regular Nice Guy
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Location: Between Lynchburg and Walton's Mountain
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Re: I want to understand this forum, and you, dear reader. -
03-01-2019, 05:34 PM
Well, it seems once again,, we were used like a Menstra-Rag©. When the Nazi catlick was done with us, she just tossed into the can.
I'll pray for her worthless soul that one day she sees the folly of her ways and comes unto Christ, Out Lord.
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Amos 3:6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?
Numbers 21:6 And the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died.
Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
Matthew 10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
Matthew 10:36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
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Re: I want to understand this forum, and you, dear reader. -
03-01-2019, 07:24 PM
I'm a he, and yes, as you have rather aptly put it, you have been used like a Menstra-Rag© (You must admit I was perfectly civil though, so maybe the analogy is a bit too violent) Farewell forever, until I see you in a form you will not recognise me in.
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South of the Border outreach program True Christian™
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Re: I want to understand this forum, and you, dear reader. -
03-01-2019, 08:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by IWantToUnderstand
I'm a he, and yes, as you have rather aptly put it, you have been used like a Menstra-Rag© (You must admit I was perfectly civil though, so maybe the analogy is a bit too violent) Farewell forever, until I see you in a form you will not recognise me in.
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Why in the world would you want to deceive us?
Proverbs 24:28 Be not a witness against thy neighbour without cause; and deceive not with thy lips.
Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
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Re: I want to understand this forum, and you, dear reader. -
03-01-2019, 08:37 PM
Not deceive; understand. As I said, "used like a Menstra-Rag©" is a bit of a harsh analogy. I suppose my last post did sound rather like a wolf in sheep's clothing, but I am still grateful to those of you who answered my questions and helped me understand humans more.
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Gushing for Jesus
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Posts: 23,729
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Location: Freehold, Iowa
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Re: I want to understand this forum, and you, dear reader. -
03-01-2019, 08:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by IWantToUnderstand
Farewell forever, until I see you in a form you will not recognise me in.
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Wait, like a talking monkey? Robot? Hentai?
Hello, my name is Mary. I hope to fellowship with you! That is, unless you don't listen to church authority (Deuteronomy 17:12); are a witch (Exodus 22:17); are a homosexual (Leviticus 20:13; Romans 1:24-32); or fortuneteller (Leviticus 20:27) or a snotty kid who hits their dad (Exodus 21:15); or curses their parents (Proverbs 20:20; Leviticus 20:9); an adulterer (Leviticus 20:10); a non-Christian (Exodus 22:19; Deuteronomy 13:7-12; Deuteronomy 17:2-5;Romans 1:24-32); an atheist (2 Chronicles 15:12-13); or false prophet (Zechariah 13:3); from the town of one who worships another, false god (Deuteronomy 13:13-19); were a non-virgin bride (Deuteronomy 22:20-21); or blasphemer (Leviticus 24:10-16), as God calls for your execution and will no doubt send you to Hell, and I have no interest developing a friendship with the Spiritually Walking Dead.
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True Christian™ Lady Extraordinaire, an Honorary Male Biblicist
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Posts: 8,762
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Surrounded by heathens
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Re: I want to understand this forum, and you, dear reader. -
03-01-2019, 08:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by IWantToUnderstand
I suppose my last post did sound rather like a wolf in sheep's clothing
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More like a sheep in sheep's clothing. This thread has reminded me very much of James Kenneth Stephen's sonnet, addressed to the poet Wordsworth:
Quote:
Two voices are there: one is of the deep ....
And one is of an old half-witted sheep
Which bleats articulate monotony,
And indicates that two and one are three,
That grass is green, lakes damp, and mountains steep
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Vaccinated by the love of Jesus!!!
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True Christian™ Just a Regular Nice Guy
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Re: I want to understand this forum, and you, dear reader. -
03-01-2019, 09:28 PM
These God haters are all the same, unlike True Christians™.
They think they can come here and 'fool the stupid Christians with logic'.
Little do they realize, we all have God on our six, the Holy Bible cocked and loaded to bear witness.
I say "Come at me bro!'
Isaiah 29:14 Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.
Matthew 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Luke 10:21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.
John 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
John 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.
John 12:39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
John 12:40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
1st Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
1st Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
1st Corinthians 1:19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
1st Corinthians 1:20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
1st Corinthians 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
1st Corinthians 1:24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
1st Corinthians 1:25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
1st Corinthians 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
1st Corinthians 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
1st Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1st Corinthians 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
1st Corinthians 3:18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.
1st Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
1st Corinthians 3:20 And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.
Jude 1:16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.
Jude 1:17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
Jude 1:18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
Jude 1:19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Amos 3:6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?
Numbers 21:6 And the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died.
Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
Matthew 10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
Matthew 10:36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
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South of the Border outreach program True Christian™
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Re: I want to understand this forum, and you, dear reader. -
03-02-2019, 01:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by IWantToUnderstand
Farewell forever, until I see you in a form you will not recognise me in.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IWantToUnderstand
Not deceive; understand.
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You made a vague threat to come back under some sort of a disguise, so we won't recognize you. That's deceit. Anyway, what's preventing you from understanding us in your current form? Are you convinced that your current form is some sort of a creature lacking a brain?
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Re: I want to understand this forum, and you, dear reader. -
03-02-2019, 10:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mary Etheldreda
Wait, like a talking monkey? Robot? Hentai?
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All of the above, though i meant more like we might pass each other on the street and you won't know it's me
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True Christian™ Just a Regular Nice Guy
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Posts: 29,835
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Between Lynchburg and Walton's Mountain
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Re: I want to understand this forum, and you, dear reader. -
03-02-2019, 12:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by IWantToUnderstand
All of the above, though i meant more like we might pass each other on the street and you won't know it's me
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Once again you fail at the basic human capability of communication.
No doubt, when you die you may be given the choice of going to Heaven or Hell.
Quote:
"Welcome Clueless, would you like to go to Heaven or Hell?"
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...to which you'll respond ...
Down you go. God does not like nitwits.
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Amos 3:6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?
Numbers 21:6 And the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died.
Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
Matthew 10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
Matthew 10:36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
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Distinguished Professor of Prayer Healing and Creation Zoology (Baraminology) Victim of atheist scientific persecution
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Posts: 10,328
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: On a mission in Godless Europistan
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Re: I want to understand this forum, and you, dear reader. -
03-02-2019, 01:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by IWantToUnderstand
All of the above, though i meant more like we might pass each other on the street and you won't know it's me
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We won't but God will.
1 John 3:20
For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.
I think that you have reasons to be worried about your fate.
Yours in Christ,
Elmer
2 Kings 18:25 - Am I now come up without the LORD against this place to destroy it? The LORD said to me, Go up against this land, and destroy it.
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Completely CRAZY for the Lord
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Re: I want to understand this forum, and you, dear reader. -
03-05-2019, 08:12 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by IWantToUnderstand
Farewell forever, until I see you in a form you will not recognise me in.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mary Etheldreda
Quote:
Originally Posted by IWantToUnderstand
Farewell forever, until I see you in a form you will not recognise me in.
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Wait, like a talking monkey? Robot? Hentai?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IWantToUnderstand
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mary Etheldreda
Wait, like a talking monkey? Robot? Hentai?
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All of the above, though i meant more like we might pass each other on the street and you won't know it's me
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Is it just me or does “Farewell forever” preclude subsequent meetings except for certain circumstances such as in the form of a chocolate owl or one of those Russian meteors?
Or does “forever” expire after 3½ hours? The Bible seems pretty clear on forevers with torment, smoke, molten brimstone, tooth gnashing and immortal worms all getting very specific treatment in the text.
Again, what's the point of turning up in enigmatic form? "Aha!" would one say, "I tolds ya, see? here I am & youse don’ even know who I are?” I've used the plural form just in case the meteor is genderfluid or the owl's made from non-binary chocolate.
Because when (as happens often) the grand farewell signifies something we thought farewells didn't mean I need to consider that meteors might have had a sentient origin too, which means they could be trapped in the wrong heavenly body, bursting to get out.
Galatians 4:2-26 ...Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. But Jerusalem which is above is free..
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