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shol'va shol'va is offline
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Default Re: Unsaved trash spews garbage - 02-21-2007, 03:34 AM

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Originally Posted by Bobby-Joe View Post
So God's laws in the books Leviticus and Deuteronomy are just mere "allegories"? So then what? We can rip them out of The Bible and wipe our butts on them because they are just "nice little stories about God ordering us to stone sinners, that's all".

What is an allegory and what is real is very clear in the Bible IMHO
I wasn't saying the history in the Old Testament wasn't real, I believe Yahweh actually existed and ordered the Isrealites to invade Canaan on other places, but he was not a god.

Enough of this. Do you believe that God will strike me down, as he struck many in the Old Testament, if I put him to the test? For it is written, "you shall not put the Lord your God to the test". If I pray to him to strike me down if I am wrong and you are right, will he do it?

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I'm the one whose read scripture here friend. I haven't seen any evidence of that from you.
I've read a decent amount, but definitely not as much as you, so I'm a little less knowledgeable than most of the veterans of this site.

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God’s law is a “story”? Jesus specially says when He changes The Law.
It is a story. The entire book of Exodus is a story, perhaps true, perhaps semi-true, with many laws sprinkled in. Most holy texts from around the world are stories.

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Yes, Hell is mentioned 64 times in The Bible, 39 times Old Testament. Remember we are talking God’s correct Holy Word here The King James Version 1611 and not some heretical so called bibles going around out there.
I believe in Hell, but as a place of Purgatory, not eternal damnation. An unbaptised or aborted baby goes to Hell just because they never accepted Jesus? Come off it! You must be insane.

Quote:
a) It is against the law to stone people in The United States. While it as false, wicked law put up by Satan it is the law and we good and TRUE Christians are commanded to obey the law, as per Romans.

b) I would never be stoned because I have turned my life over to Jesus and He protects me from sinning. GLORY!
a) Well, I'm glad you obey. Obeying laws we don't like for the benefit of God's will is redemptive for the soul. I just pray I can take some of my own advice if and when the time comes.

b) Okay, put what if bin Laden should take over, and he won't, but what if he should, and implement Sha'ria (spelling?) law, and you end up being stoned anyway? What would you say then?


Oh yeah, can I ask you something? At what point in the Old Testament does God actually stop interacting physically with the Israelites?
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shol'va shol'va is offline
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Default Re: Unsaved trash spews garbage - 02-21-2007, 03:38 AM

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Originally Posted by OnYourKnees View Post
Has it not already been explained to you that God and Jesus are one and the same?

Tell us, what religion do you follow, since you clearly hate God?
God and Jesus are one and the same. And Yahweh is not God.

I told you, I'm a pagan. And I hate your god because his very actions go against every sense of morality and reason and justice ingrained in me, not from my parents, or from the liberal media, or from any outside source, but the morality and reason and justice I developed on my own, that was partially with me at birth, and partially developed from my own experiences.
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Default Re: Unsaved trash spews garbage - 02-21-2007, 03:57 AM

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Originally Posted by shol'va View Post
God and Jesus are one and the same. And Yahweh is not God.

I told you, I'm a pagan. And I hate your god because his very actions go against every sense of morality and reason and justice ingrained in me, not from my parents, or from the liberal media, or from any outside source, but the morality and reason and justice I developed on my own, that was partially with me at birth, and partially developed from my own experiences.
So instead of following the One True God, you prefer to make up your own Do-It-Yourself gods, and follow them. Gotcha.

Wouldn't it be easier to just say that you're an atheist? After all, making up a god to suit yourself is the same thing as worshipping yourself, anyway.
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shol'va shol'va is offline
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Default Re: Unsaved trash spews garbage - 02-21-2007, 04:32 AM

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Originally Posted by OnYourKnees View Post
So instead of following the One True God, you prefer to make up your own Do-It-Yourself gods, and follow them. Gotcha.

Wouldn't it be easier to just say that you're an atheist? After all, making up a god to suit yourself is the same thing as worshipping yourself, anyway.
Actually I've found that it's easier for me to just pray to whatever aspect of God suits my needs at a given time. If, for example, I wish it to be sunny on a certain day, I'd pray to Ra, and if I wish for rain, the Mayan god Chac. Does it often work? Probably not. But it's been scientifically proven that the more people put their minds to something happening, the more likely it is to happen: in essence, prayer works. So no, I don't make up gods, and I certainly am not a narcisist or athiest. How the hell did you come up with that conclusion anyway? Your logic is beyond my comprehension.
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Default Re: Unsaved trash spews garbage - 02-21-2007, 04:59 AM

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Originally Posted by shol'va View Post
Even when there is nothing in the Bible that says God secretly controls Satan? Who's interpreting now? Besides that, if Jesus said that Yahweh was false, then it would be as if the government had revealed they had secretly been dealing with aliens. Firstly, every Jew there ever was would have panicked or commited suicide or converted or something. Either that or a mob would have murdered Him and He wouldn't have had a chance to die on the cross. It would have been utter chaos. And God doesn't want chaos.
Hold it there friend.

What you are saying friend makes absolutely no sense from a Christian perspective; Jesus, Son of God, who willing suffered a brutal if temporary death for our sins over a long weekend was too afraid to tell The TRUTH to the world???? No friend, my faith says that is pure nonsense, to believe it is to spit in Jesus face, slap Him around, strip Him naked and then mock in public as a spineless coward. There is no way any good Christian could accept what you have just stated. Frankly I can not see how chaos among the Jews would have dissuaded Jesus, did He not prophesizes that the Romans would destroy the Temple and ruin the Jewish nation? Chaos was coming and since God is the ruler of all men it was the chaos God wanted.

Friend, for the sake of you soul you have to face The Truth; God is God threw the whole Bible. This exasperating insistence that we TRUE Christians somehow worship a false god is ridiculous. We have scripture behind us 110.10%. I’ve seen precious little from you.



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shol'va shol'va is offline
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Default Re: Unsaved trash spews garbage - 02-21-2007, 05:24 AM

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Originally Posted by Bobby-Joe View Post
Hold it there friend.

What you are saying friend makes absolutely no sense from a Christian perspective; Jesus, Son of God, who willing suffered a brutal if temporary death for our sins over a long weekend was too afraid to tell The TRUTH to the world???? No friend, my faith says that is pure nonsense, to believe it is to spit in Jesus face, slap Him around, strip Him naked and then mock in public as a spineless coward. There is no way any good Christian could accept what you have just stated. Frankly I can not see how chaos among the Jews would have dissuaded Jesus, did He not prophesizes that the Romans would destroy the Temple and ruin the Jewish nation? Chaos was coming and since God is the ruler of all men it was the chaos God wanted.
I wasn't saying He was afraid, I'm saying that for the good of the world the truth was not to be revealed; humans could not handle the truth just then... and obviously they still can't. Perhaps in the coming apocalypse... I think we're all in for some surprises when that happens, even me.

Quote:
Friend, for the sake of you soul you have to face The Truth; God is God threw the whole Bible. This exasperating insistence that we TRUE Christians somehow worship a false god is ridiculous.
You want to know what's ridiculous? Your entire belief system! It's so messed up and twisted, I can't believe anyone ever could believe it. Babies going to hell! Righteousness in rape, murder and torture! It goes against the morals of every sane person on the planet! It is beyond exasparating to see you all spew this filth. You're all taints that need to be WIPED OUT!

*Calms down* Sorry, I get like that sometimes. All this debate has got me riled up.

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We have scripture behind us 110.10%. I’ve seen precious little from you.
Oh sure, you have the literal scriptures behind you, but I fear you do not understand the message of them, the spirit of them. The fact of the matter is, there is NOTHING in the New Testament that validates your beliefs... Jesus said to (paraphrase) "Give unto Caesar what is Caesar's, and give unto God what is God's". If that's not a call for the separation of Church and State, I don't know what is. Unless you're saying that Jesus deliberately lied to decieve liberals, and that, my friend, is blasphemy.
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Default Re: Unsaved trash spews garbage - 02-21-2007, 05:27 AM

I'm retiring for the night; I'll pick this up tomorrow.
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Default Re: Unsaved trash spews garbage - 02-21-2007, 06:09 AM

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Originally Posted by shol'va View Post
Actually I've found that it's easier for me to just pray to whatever aspect of God suits my needs at a given time. If, for example, I wish it to be sunny on a certain day, I'd pray to Ra, and if I wish for rain, the Mayan god Chac. Does it often work? Probably not. But it's been scientifically proven that the more people put their minds to something happening, the more likely it is to happen: in essence, prayer works.
Could you give us a "scientific" reference for that? Or are you just going to claim whatever you believe is "a known fact"? Last time I checked, God answered prayers with a "yes" or a "no", not by taking a poll and deciding based upon how many others thought my prayer was a good idea. It's praying to God, not American Idol! (Though the latter likely suits you better, eh?)

I imagine you must support Global Orgasm Day, then? It would seem to fit neatly with your concept of how God works.
Quote:
So no, I don't make up gods, and I certainly am not a narcisist or athiest. How the hell did you come up with that conclusion anyway? Your logic is beyond my comprehension.
I'm sorry if we confuse you. It's really quite simple.

A made-up god is a reflection of the maker. Therefore, you pray to whatever suits you at the moment, or a god of your own imaginings. You put your imagination above God. This makes you both a narcissist and an atheist, because you deny God by imagining your own gods.
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Originally Posted by shol'va View Post
I wasn't saying He was afraid, I'm saying that for the good of the world the truth was not to be revealed; humans could not handle the truth just then... and obviously they still can't. Perhaps in the coming apocalypse... I think we're all in for some surprises when that happens, even me.
So you're calling God not a coward but a liar, I see. That's much better.
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You want to know what's ridiculous? Your entire belief system! It's so messed up and twisted, I can't believe anyone ever could believe it. Babies going to hell! Righteousness in rape, murder and torture! It goes against the morals of every sane person on the planet! It is beyond exasparating to see you all spew this filth. You're all taints that need to be WIPED OUT!
If you don't like what the Bible says, take it up with God. He wrote it, we merely share the truth about what it says.

Unlike salad-bar Christians, who pick and choose the nice parts of the Bible, we follow the whole thing, even the parts we don't like.

Considering Christianity (including warped John 3:16 Christianity, and all other manner of False Christians) is the majority religion on the planet, with over 2 billion served, and is the dominant religion in all advanced countries, I wonder who is or is not sane here.

After all, you're the one advocating genocide, not us. ("You're all taints that need to be WIPED OUT!" Who said that? Oh, yes. The "peace-loving" Pagan, known by his fruits. Uh-huh.)
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Oh sure, you have the literal scriptures behind you, but I fear you do not understand the message of them, the spirit of them. The fact of the matter is, there is NOTHING in the New Testament that validates your beliefs...
Please demonstrate. Have you actually READ the New Testament?
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Jesus said to (paraphrase) "Give unto Caesar what is Caesar's, and give unto God what is God's". If that's not a call for the separation of Church and State, I don't know what is.
Well, no. It's not, so apparently you don't.

Let's look at that in context, shall we?

Quote:
Mark 7:13-17

13And they send unto him certain of the Pharisees and of the Herodians, to catch him in his words.

14And when they were come, they say unto him, Master, we know that thou art true, and carest for no man: for thou regardest not the person of men, but teachest the way of God in truth: Is it lawful to give tribute to Caesar, or not?
15Shall we give, or shall we not give? But he, knowing their hypocrisy, said unto them, Why tempt ye me? bring me a penny, that I may see it.
16And they brought it. And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? And they said unto him, Caesar's.
17And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him.
The Pharisees and Herodians were trying to trick Jesus into saying that Jews should not pay tribute to Caesar, so they could have him jailed as a revolutionary. He was too clever for them. This is quite clear, if you read the full Scripture, instead of trying to cherry-pick verses at random to support your frail argument. It has nothing to do with endorsing a separation of church and state, a wholly modern concept.
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Unless you're saying that Jesus deliberately lied to decieve liberals, and that, my friend, is blasphemy.
Why would you think that Jesus would not deceive anyone? What Bible have you been reading, son?


Quote:
Matthew 13:10-13

10And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?

11He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
Jesus speaks to the masses in parables so that he can tell them the truth in a way that they will not understand it. In this manner, they may be freely condemned to eternal punishment in Hell for failing to comprehend, since they were told the Truth and rejected it.

God (who is also Jesus, remember) also lies to people directly. Hear Paul attesting to this fact:


Quote:
2 Thessalonians 2:8-12

8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Here, Paul describes the downfall of the Antichrist and his followers. GOD shall send them strong delusion, it says, that they should believe a lie (the Antichrist's lies), that they all might be damned!

Yes, God does deceive people so He may, in good conscience, damn them to eternal torture for the sake of being foolish enough to believe the lies He forced them to believe! Your claims that God would never be dishonest are the blasphemy here!

PRAISE GOD for deceiving the wicked, that they might not be saved, and may be eternally punished in Hellfire!

Last edited by OnYourKnees; 02-21-2007 at 06:18 AM.
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Default Re: Unsaved trash spews garbage - 02-21-2007, 04:03 PM

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Originally Posted by Bobby-Joe View Post
Pagan gods are just false gods put up by Satan. That is why many of their ceremonies resemble Godly Christian ceremonies butedate them. Satan pre-stole these things to mock Jesus.
Plus, Satan is terrible at coming up with his own ideas. He is about as stupid and unoriginal as they come. You can see this in the way some of his followers sacrifice to him...cutting themselves. It's just sick.
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Default Re: Unsaved trash spews garbage - 02-21-2007, 04:36 PM

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Originally Posted by shol'va View Post
I wasn't saying He was afraid, I'm saying that for the good of the world the truth was not to be revealed; humans could not handle the truth just then... and obviously they still can't.
Friend, who knows the mind of God? No mortal man can. That is our point here at Landover; human reason can not possibly match’s God’s so the faithful must follow His Godly commands to the letter. Jesus tells me in my heart that all of it is for the better even if it appears to me to be otherwise.
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Originally Posted by shol'va View Post
Perhaps in the coming apocalypse... I think we're all in for some surprises when that happens, even me.
According the Revelations the only surprise will be the shock and horror of what Jesus will do to the sinful. Those that He doesn’t kill outright with disease, famine and war He will personally cut down and command the birds to feed on their dying bodies.
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Originally Posted by shol'va View Post
You want to know what's ridiculous? Your entire belief system! It's so messed up and twisted, I can't believe anyone ever could believe it. Babies going to hell!
If they reject Christ by not living long enough to repent of their depravity and accept Jesus as their personal savior they will go to hell, yes that is what God in The Bible says friend.
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Originally Posted by shol'va View Post
Righteousness in rape, murder and torture!
We TRUE Christians murder no one friend. The Bible specifically says the blood of their deaths is upon their own head. In other words the sinner kills themselves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shol'va View Post
It goes against the morals of every sane person on the planet! It is beyond exasparating to see you all spew this filth. You're all taints that need to be WIPED OUT!

*Calms down* Sorry, I get like that sometimes. All this debate has got me riled up.
First; I forgive you for your outburst. Since you are not one of Jesus beloved elect you can no show the same patience and love for humanity Jesus has bestowed upon me.

Second; Friend, let me carefully explain this to you. This is not what I personally consider right or wrong. This is what God specifically says it right or wrong. If you have an issue with stoning sinners to death for their crimes against God then you have an issue with God. Since God calls for this it must be righteous and my own personal distaste is just my selfish humanity depravity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shol'va View Post
Oh sure, you have the literal scriptures behind you, but I fear you do not understand the message of them, the spirit of them. The fact of the matter is, there is NOTHING in the New Testament that validates your beliefs... Jesus said to (paraphrase) "Give unto Caesar what is Caesar's, and give unto God what is God's". If that's not a call for the separation of Church and State, I don't know what is. Unless you're saying that Jesus deliberately lied to decieve liberals, and that, my friend, is blasphemy.
There go again friend reading only part of scripture. People do this all the time like with the “love you neighbor” quote, they ignore Christ specifically telling them it only applies to fellow Christians. Now what Christ is say and Romans explains further is we TRUE Christians are to obey secular law. That is why we TRUE Christians do not go around killing wickers, atheists, homers and the like on sight because it is against secular law. Since this unjustly oppresses our religious freedom we TRUE Christians are working in the system to put up leaders who reflect our values like GW Bush. The day will come friend when the United States of America is a Christian nation again! GLORY!



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Talking Re: Unsaved trash spews garbage - 02-21-2007, 07:18 PM

I have to say that I'm really enjoying reading this debate; there are valid points on both sides, both sides are arguing fairly and are backing up their claims to the best of their ability, and, gem of all gems, both are using intelligent arguments and grammar! That last point is a rarity (especially with the trolls that seem to find their way to this forum). Maybe I'll jump in at some point, but I see that Shol'va is certainly holding down the fort, as it were, quite well on his/her own. (Sorry, maybe you've mentioned your gender somewhere, but I seem to have missed it.)




That said, there is, however, one small (though irrelevant to this argument) statement I would like to make in regards to this post by On Your Knees:
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnYourKnees View Post
Considering Christianity (including warped John 3:16 Christianity, and all other manner of False Christians) is the majority religion on the planet, with over 2 billion served, and is the dominant religion in all advanced countries, I wonder who is or is not sane here.
Sometimes "majority" means that all the idiots are on the same side.



There we go. Alie's done de-railing the debate, please continue.


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Default Re: Unsaved trash spews garbage - 02-21-2007, 10:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by shol'va View Post
God and Jesus are one and the same. And Yahweh is not God.

I told you, I'm a pagan. And I hate your god because his very actions go against every sense of morality and reason and justice ingrained in me, not from my parents, or from the liberal media, or from any outside source, but the morality and reason and justice I developed on my own, that was partially with me at birth, and partially developed from my own experiences.
I'm also pagan, so nice to meet you.
I abhor the bible and its vicious, cruel teaching, but I really don't believe in the bible god. That is to say, I believe everything in the bible is complete and utter hogwash.

As a pagan, how come you seem to believe in the xtian god, jesus and hell? Or am I mistaken in what you were trying to say?



Wake up and smell the 21st Century!!

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Default Re: Unsaved trash spews garbage - 02-21-2007, 10:56 PM

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Originally Posted by OnYourKnees View Post
Could you give us a "scientific" reference for that? Or are you just going to claim whatever you believe is "a known fact"? Last time I checked, God answered prayers with a "yes" or a "no", not by taking a poll and deciding based upon how many others thought my prayer was a good idea. It's praying to God, not American Idol! (Though the latter likely suits you better, eh?)

I imagine you must support Global Orgasm Day, then? It would seem to fit neatly with your concept of how God works.
The last time you prayed, did you hear "yes" or "no"? No, God works in subtler ways then that. And unfortunatley I can't cite my source, because I completely forgot where I heard it. But I did hear it, and that's a fact. And Global Orgasm Day is just creepy.

Quote:
I'm sorry if we confuse you. It's really quite simple.

A made-up god is a reflection of the maker. Therefore, you pray to whatever suits you at the moment, or a god of your own imaginings. You put your imagination above God. This makes you both a narcissist and an atheist, because you deny God by imagining your own gods.
Hardly. I don't make up gods, I pray to already established ones, which aren't actually separate gods at all, but part of One God, so basically every time I pray to Ra, Sekhmet etc. I pray to the one God. Tell me, do you not imagine your god as he is in the Old Testament, smiting, killing, etc? The god suits the person, as I like to say. Your personalities are violent and psychotic, so you go with a god that suits those qualities.

Quote:
Considering Christianity (including warped John 3:16 Christianity, and all other manner of False Christians) is the majority religion on the planet, with over 2 billion served, and is the dominant religion in all advanced countries, I wonder who is or is not sane here.
I'm not condemning Christianity at all, only your brand. I'd bet about 0.01% of all Christians are so-called "True Christians" (aka radical extremists) and aroung 50% of the rest are conservative, but not with the wish to establish a theocracy.

Quote:
After all, you're the one advocating genocide, not us. ("You're all taints that need to be WIPED OUT!" Who said that? Oh, yes. The "peace-loving" Pagan, known by his fruits. Uh-huh.)
Don't give me that. You've advocated genocide plenty of times in your espousal of Yahweh's deeds in the Old Testament. And I never claimed I loved peace, I'm pro-war, remember. I will fight against you and your false god in the War to come.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby-Joe View Post
Friend, who knows the mind of God? No mortal man can. That is our point here at Landover; human reason can not possibly match’s God’s so the faithful must follow His Godly commands to the letter. Jesus tells me in my heart that all of it is for the better even if it appears to me to be otherwise.
I'm sorry if I appeared to say the I know the mind of God, I obviously don't.

Quote:
If they reject Christ by not living long enough to repent of their depravity and accept Jesus as their personal savior they will go to hell, yes that is what God in The Bible says friend.
God says babie will go to hell? Where in the Bible does it ever say that?

Quote:
Second; Friend, let me carefully explain this to you. This is not what I personally consider right or wrong. This is what God specifically says it right or wrong. If you have an issue with stoning sinners to death for their crimes against God then you have an issue with God. Since God calls for this it must be righteous and my own personal distaste is just my selfish humanity depravity.
If you do not follow your own morality then your life is a failure. God gave us a sense of right and wrong. Why in all of Creation would God give us a sense of morality that is revolted at the sight of murder and torture and rape, then command us to do all those things? The only logical conclusion is that your god is false.

Quote:
The day will come friend when the United States of America is a Christian nation again! GLORY!
And when that day comes, I will fight against you to the last. I die free.

I'll not bother to respond anymore, your words are poison to my soul. I've found this to be a spiritual trial, and I've learned a few lessons here. Mostly the lesson that I've made my choice, and if I'm damned then I'm damned. I'll probably regret saying that when I die but no matter.

One final thing in closing though, you evidently believe that your god has the power to smite people as he did in the Old Testament. If I beseech him to smite me where I stand if you are right, will he?
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Default Re: Unsaved trash spews garbage - 02-21-2007, 11:00 PM

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Originally Posted by Rachael Van Helsing View Post
I'm also pagan, so nice to meet you.
I abhor the bible and its vicious, cruel teaching, but I really don't believe in the bible god. That is to say, I believe everything in the bible is complete and utter hogwash.

As a pagan, how come you seem to believe in the xtian god, jesus and hell? Or am I mistaken in what you were trying to say?
I'm a messed up pagan, basically. I believe all religions have a grain of truth (though most truths are hidden behind alot of bull). Don't you believe in Jesus' message? It is a good one. Basically I keep my mind open to everything.
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Default Re: Unsaved trash spews garbage - 02-21-2007, 11:09 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by shol'va View Post
I'm a messed up pagan, basically. I believe all religions have a grain of truth (though most truths are hidden behind alot of bull). Don't you believe in Jesus' message? It is a good one. Basically I keep my mind open to everything.
Well, I do believe that your visit to our Forum has started to be a fruitful one.
It gladdens mine and Jesus' heart when someone starts to see the guiding Light of Jesus.



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being interpreted, Damsel, I say unto thee, arise!...Mark 5:41



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Default Re: Unsaved trash spews garbage - 02-21-2007, 11:31 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by shol'va View Post
I'm a messed up pagan, basically. I believe all religions have a grain of truth (though most truths are hidden behind alot of bull). Don't you believe in Jesus' message? It is a good one. Basically I keep my mind open to everything.
LOL!!! A GOOD message??? If you believe that, my friend, you're mistaken. Again I quote:

Matthew 10:34-35:
34Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
35For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

I do not believe in any message from the bible because I am pagan... the traditional kind of pagan that DOESN'T believe in the bible which came AFTER.
I do not believe the god, or jesus of the bible existed. I do not believe in the bible AT ALL.
The bible, jesus, xtianity...are all part of the same thing which is nothing to do with what I believe....thank the gods for that.



Wake up and smell the 21st Century!!

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Default Re: Unsaved trash spews garbage - 02-21-2007, 11:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by shol'va View Post
I'll not bother to respond anymore, your words are poison to my soul. I've found this to be a spiritual trial, and I've learned a few lessons here.
Good friend, I pray you come to The TRUTH of Jesus love as we explain here in Landover. Do not tarry for Jesus return will be soon. If you do not come to Jesus in time your fate will be bobbing on the end of Satan’s barbed tallywacker for eternity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shol'va View Post
One final thing in closing though, you evidently believe that your god has the power to smite people as he did in the Old Testament. If I beseech him to smite me where I stand if you are right, will he?
God moves as He chooses, not we friend. Be careful what you ask for too, just look at what God did in His Wrath to New Orleans with Katrina or South Asia with the Boxing Day Tsunami.

And again friend, you may not believe it but it is the same God in the Old and New Testament.



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Default Re: Unsaved trash spews garbage - 02-22-2007, 12:16 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by shol'va View Post
The last time you prayed, did you hear "yes" or "no"? No, God works in subtler ways then that. And unfortunatley I can't cite my source, because I completely forgot where I heard it. But I did hear it, and that's a fact. And Global Orgasm Day is just creepy.
So no, you don't have a reference. You could have just said that you have no reference or evidence whatsoever . . . since you don't. But please, go look up all about the power of group prayer, and let us know what you find.

I heard that Jesus came back already and is currently working as a butcher at Gitmo. Does that make it true? Anecdotal evidence is no evidence.

I agree on Global Orgasm Day, but it seems that your response is inconsistent with your belief in the value of focusing energies as a group.
Quote:
Hardly. I don't make up gods, I pray to already established ones, which aren't actually separate gods at all, but part of One God, so basically every time I pray to Ra, Sekhmet etc. I pray to the one God. Tell me, do you not imagine your god as he is in the Old Testament, smiting, killing, etc? The god suits the person, as I like to say. Your personalities are violent and psychotic, so you go with a god that suits those qualities.
Actually, we go with God as He has described Himself in His Word. Perhaps you should read it, instead of praying to the failed false gods of collapsed theocracies. (OOPS! Yes, those were theocracies, and you're now a booster for their failed false gods.)
Quote:
I'm not condemning Christianity at all, only your brand. I'd bet about 0.01% of all Christians are so-called "True Christians" (aka radical extremists) and aroung 50% of the rest are conservative, but not with the wish to establish a theocracy.
Could you back that up with a scientific reference? 53% of Americans believe in Biblical 6-Day Creationism. How many of those do you think believe that "In God We Trust" needs to remain on the dollar bill? Look it up.

Our "brand", as you call it, is following exactly what the Bible says, instead of ignoring parts or making stuff up to suit our fancy. That's what True Christianity is. All others are lying to themselves and their congregations, and remaking God in their own image.

Perhaps you should read the Bible for yourself, instead of "learning about it" from others.
Quote:
Don't give me that. You've advocated genocide plenty of times in your espousal of Yahweh's deeds in the Old Testament. And I never claimed I loved peace, I'm pro-war, remember. I will fight against you and your false god in the War to come.
I see. So if we do something you perceive as wrong, then it's OK for you to do something similar, which you also perceive as wrong? Interesting ethics you have there, Pagan.

We have repeatedly told you that we only state the Truth as God has written in His Word. We don't necessarily like all of it, but that doesn't give us the right to ignore the bits we don't care for. We may state that God commands us to commit genocide, but that doesn't mean we think it's a neat idea. You, on the other hand, advocate murdering anyone who doesn't think like you do. See the difference?

By the way, if God is false, and therefore does not exist (like your Egyptian sun-god Ra, who we all know has BILLIONS -- I mean, DOZENS -- of adherents) how exactly will you fight Him?
Quote:
I'll not bother to respond anymore, your words are poison to my soul. I've found this to be a spiritual trial, and I've learned a few lessons here. Mostly the lesson that I've made my choice, and if I'm damned then I'm damned. I'll probably regret saying that when I die but no matter.
Loosely translated, "I thought I could easily convince you people to apostate your faith with a few clever arguments, but since I've failed, I shall leave with my tail between my legs. You see, I really don't have the strength of spiritual conviction I thought I had."
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Default Re: Unsaved trash spews garbage - 02-22-2007, 01:35 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by shol'va View Post
I'll not bother to respond anymore, your words are poison to my soul. I've found this to be a spiritual trial, and I've learned a few lessons here. Mostly the lesson that I've made my choice, and if I'm damned then I'm damned. I'll probably regret saying that when I die but no matter.
Don't tell me this means that you're leaving! Yes, the Landoverites are rather exhausting, and yes, it does sometimes feel as though they are infecting you with their hate, but you know... They aren't bad people... They're a (slightly dysfunctional) family and you do eventually get used to it. I'm an Eclectic Pagan, and a Witch, and I've been here for... Goodness, how many years has it been? Well, three or four years, anyway, and I rather love these people and all their silly flaws. Please do stick around, please. It'd be a real shame to have someone so intelligent leave so soon.


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Default Re: Unsaved trash spews garbage - 02-22-2007, 02:16 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by shol'va View Post
The last time you prayed, did you hear "yes" or "no"? No, God works in subtler ways then that. And unfortunatley I can't cite my source, because I completely forgot where I heard it. But I did hear it, and that's a fact. And Global Orgasm Day is just creepy.
That's a very absolutist position to take - it's fine for you to pick and choose your beliefs about spirituality, but as soon as anyone else tries it, it's automatically "creepy"? And a nice way of getting around the fact that you have nothing outside your own head to support your beliefs.


Quote:
Hardly. I don't make up gods, I pray to already established ones, which aren't actually separate gods at all, but part of One God, so basically every time I pray to Ra, Sekhmet etc.
Friend, does it not bother you even slightly that the followers of the God of the Bible have proliferated and spread all over the world, whereas the followers of Ra, Sekhmet, Odin, Dagon and all the rest have withered, failed and died out? What does that say about the relative validity and usefulness of our God compared to yours?
Quote:
I pray to the one God. Tell me, do you not imagine your god as he is in the Old Testament, smiting, killing, etc?
No. We do not have to imagine Him; He is real.
Quote:
The god suits the person, as I like to say. Your personalities are violent and psychotic, so you go with a god that suits those qualities.
And your personality is intensely narcissistic and self-centered, so you make up a "god" that seems kind of neat and convenient to you. To anyone who actually takes the idea of a Supreme Being seriously, the idea of mere humans being able to shape the Almighty God in their image, rather than vice versa, is ludicrous and blasphemous beyond words.

Quote:
I'm not condemning Christianity at all, only your brand. I'd bet about 0.01% of all Christians are so-called "True Christians" (aka radical extremists) and aroung 50% of the rest are conservative, but not with the wish to establish a theocracy.
Right. You're not condemning Christianity at all, only followers of Christ's teachings. As for your statistics:
Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.


Quote:
Don't give me that. You've advocated genocide plenty of times in your espousal of Yahweh's deeds in the Old Testament. And I never claimed I loved peace, I'm pro-war, remember. I will fight against you and your false god in the War to come.
So how exactly do you square your determination to use violence to suppress those who have different religious beliefs than you with this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by shol'va View Post
I'm a messed up pagan, basically. I believe all religions have a grain of truth (though most truths are hidden behind alot of bull).
So we're based on truth, but you're willing to fight to destroy us? You have some serious issues to work out. Either all "gods" are equally valid, or they aren't - you can't have it both ways.
Quote:
I'm sorry if I appeared to say the I know the mind of God, I obviously don't.
That's alright, I don't think anyone here has ever accused you of appearing to know anything.

Quote:
God says babie will go to hell? Where in the Bible does it ever say that?
Psalm 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

We are told that we are tainted with sin from birth.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

We can only become Saved through Jesus. Babies clearly cannot make a conscious decision to accept Jesus as their personal Saviour. Aside from Heaven and Hell, the Bible mentions no other options whatsoever.


Quote:
If you do not follow your own morality then your life is a failure. God gave us a sense of right and wrong. Why in all of Creation would God give us a sense of morality that is revolted at the sight of murder and torture and rape, then command us to do all those things? The only logical conclusion is that your god is false.
Or that your arguments are. For those of us who aren't into DIY make-your-own-"god" kits, the idea that one's own subjective viewpoints should be the final authority on everything is highly dubious. God tested Job, so why shouldn't He be doing the same to us?


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And when that day comes, I will fight against you to the last. I die free.
Nobody is free, you ignorant jackanapes. The idea of supernatural beings controlling the lives of humans is utterly incompatible with any kind of human freedom. That's equally true whether you call this supernatural being Jesus or Ra.
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I'll not bother to respond anymore, your words are poison to my soul. I've found this to be a spiritual trial, and I've learned a few lessons here. Mostly the lesson that I've made my choice, and if I'm damned then I'm damned. I'll probably regret saying that when I die but no matter.

One final thing in closing though, you evidently believe that your god has the power to smite people as he did in the Old Testament. If I beseech him to smite me where I stand if you are right, will he?
No. Why would God listen to the prayers of a sinner?


O Lord our God, help us to tear their soldiers to bloody shreds with our shells; help us to cover their smiling fields with the pale forms of their patriot dead; help us to drown the thunder of the guns with the shrieks of their wounded, writhing in pain; help us to lay waste their humble homes with a hurricane of fire; help us to wring the hearts of their unoffending widows with unavailing grief; help us to turn them out roofless with little children to wander unfriended the wastes of their desolated land in rags and hunger and thirst, sports of the sun flames of summer and the icy winds of winter, broken in spirit, worn with travail, imploring Thee for the refuge of the grave and denied it--for our sakes who adore Thee, Lord, blast their hopes, blight their lives, protract their bitter pilgrimage, make heavy their steps, water their way with their tears, stain the white snow with the blood of their wounded feet! We ask it, in the spirit of love, of Him Who is the Source of Love, and Who is the ever-faithful refuge and friend of all that are sore beset and seek His aid with humble and contrite hearts. Amen.


God being truth, justice, goodness, beauty, power, and life, man is falsehood, iniquity, evil, ugliness, impotence, and death. God being master, man is the slave. Incapable of finding justice, truth, and eternal life by his own effort, he can attain them only through a divine revelation... he who desires to worship God must harbor no childish illusions about the matter, but bravely renounce his liberty and humanity.
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