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RautaKansleri RautaKansleri is offline
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Default Question - 11-27-2007, 12:09 PM

I seriously just HAVE to ask this: how can you possibly trust anything that is written in the Bible? I mean, it's written by humans, not God. Humans, that make mistakes. Even if God told the writers of Bible exactly what to write, I'm sure they have made mistakes, and added something of their own. In fact, it was men that did NOT write the Bible, who decided what should be in the Bible. I sincerely want to believe everything that is written there, but I just cannot, because I cannot trust it when someone says that everything in the Bible is the word of God...
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Default Re: Question - 11-27-2007, 12:27 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by RautaKansleri View Post
I seriously just HAVE to ask this: how can you possibly trust anything that is written in the Bible? I mean, it's written by humans, not God. Humans, that make mistakes. Even if God told the writers of Bible exactly what to write, I'm sure they have made mistakes, and added something of their own. In fact, it was men that did NOT write the Bible, who decided what should be in the Bible. I sincerely want to believe everything that is written there, but I just cannot, because I cannot trust it when someone says that everything in the Bible is the word of God...
Don't trust people, trust God. The Holy KJV bible was dictated directly by God Almighty. Take a look at THIS.

You make mistakes, Jesus doesn't. Get down on your knees and open your heart to Him right now! He'll speak to you, I'm certain.

I'll be praying for you, friend.


Who Will Jesus Damn?

Here is a partial list from just a few scripture verses:

Hypocrites (Matthew 24:51), The Unforgiving (Mark 11:26), Homosexuals (Romans 1:26, 27), Fornicators (Romans 1:29), The Wicked (Romans 1:29), The Covetous (Romans 1:29), The Malicious (Romans 1:29), The Envious (Romans 1:29), Murderers (Romans 1:29), The Deceitful (Romans 1:29), Backbiters (Romans 1:30), Haters of God (Romans 1:30), The Despiteful (Romans 1:30), The Proud (Romans 1:30), Boasters (Romans 1:30), Inventors of evil (Romans 1:30), Disobedient to parents (Romans 1:30), Covenant breakers (Romans 1:31), The Unmerciful (Romans 1:31), The Implacable (Romans 1:31), The Unrighteous (1Corinthians 6:9), Idolaters (1Corinthians 6:9), Adulterers (1Corinthians 6:9), The Effeminate (1Corinthians 6:9), Thieves (1Corinthians 6:10), Drunkards (1Corinthians 6:10), Reviler (1Corinthians 6:10), Extortioners (1Corinthians 6:10), The Fearful (Revelation 21:8), The Unbelieving (Revelation 21:8), The Abominable (Revelation 21:8), Whoremongers (Revelation 21:8), Sorcerers (Revelation 21:8), All Liars (Revelation 21:8)

Need Pastoral Advice? Contact me privately at PastorEzekiel@landoverbaptist.net TODAY!!
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Default Re: Question - 11-27-2007, 12:35 PM

I trust God. I merely wish I'd find the strength in myself to trust those that say the Bible is His holy word. Until I do, I do not think I can trust the Bible since it's so contradictory, and God Himself hasn't told me that I can trust it... Only humans have told me so. But I shall wait, because If God wants me to trust the Bible, He will tell me to. If not, then I am already unsaved and doomed for damnation. I hope not.

Prayers to all.
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Default Re: Question - 11-27-2007, 12:39 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by RautaKansleri View Post
I trust God. I merely wish I'd find the strength in myself to trust those that say the Bible is His holy word. Until I do, I do not think I can trust the Bible since it's so contradictory, and God Himself hasn't told me that I can trust it... Only humans have told me so. But I shall wait, because If God wants me to trust the Bible, He will tell me to. If not, then I am already unsaved and doomed for damnation. I hope not.

Prayers to all.
Please feel free to show me each of these so-called contradictions. I'm certain that I or another pastor here can help clear them up.

Also please tell us about yourself. Which denomination do you belong to? You aren't a Christ-killing joo I hope. You do have a wierd name...


Who Will Jesus Damn?

Here is a partial list from just a few scripture verses:

Hypocrites (Matthew 24:51), The Unforgiving (Mark 11:26), Homosexuals (Romans 1:26, 27), Fornicators (Romans 1:29), The Wicked (Romans 1:29), The Covetous (Romans 1:29), The Malicious (Romans 1:29), The Envious (Romans 1:29), Murderers (Romans 1:29), The Deceitful (Romans 1:29), Backbiters (Romans 1:30), Haters of God (Romans 1:30), The Despiteful (Romans 1:30), The Proud (Romans 1:30), Boasters (Romans 1:30), Inventors of evil (Romans 1:30), Disobedient to parents (Romans 1:30), Covenant breakers (Romans 1:31), The Unmerciful (Romans 1:31), The Implacable (Romans 1:31), The Unrighteous (1Corinthians 6:9), Idolaters (1Corinthians 6:9), Adulterers (1Corinthians 6:9), The Effeminate (1Corinthians 6:9), Thieves (1Corinthians 6:10), Drunkards (1Corinthians 6:10), Reviler (1Corinthians 6:10), Extortioners (1Corinthians 6:10), The Fearful (Revelation 21:8), The Unbelieving (Revelation 21:8), The Abominable (Revelation 21:8), Whoremongers (Revelation 21:8), Sorcerers (Revelation 21:8), All Liars (Revelation 21:8)

Need Pastoral Advice? Contact me privately at PastorEzekiel@landoverbaptist.net TODAY!!
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Default Re: Question - 11-27-2007, 12:52 PM

I am no Christ-killer. I'm a christian myself, from Finland. I can't say that I belong to any church, since I haven't yet found one of my liking, one that could clearly tell me what to do to be saved. Mostly because of my inability to trust the Bible. Contradictions? Well. You guys have yourself gathered quite a lot of them here: http://www.landoverbaptist.net/showthread.php?t=3717. There's a lot of them.

Prayers for you all.
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Default Re: Question - 11-27-2007, 01:01 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by RautaKansleri View Post
I am no Christ-killer. I'm a christian myself, from Finland. I can't say that I belong to any church, since I haven't yet found one of my liking, one that could clearly tell me what to do to be saved. Mostly because of my inability to trust the Bible. Contradictions? Well. You guys have yourself gathered quite a lot of them here: http://www.landoverbaptist.net/showthread.php?t=3717. There's a lot of them.

Prayers for you all.
Those are "heretic traps", not contradictions. Being an unsaved foriegner, you just can't understand the Bible, that's all.

Quote:
John 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. 8:45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
Do you worship Moomins up there? Those are just sodomite trolls sent by satan to lull you into devil worship.


Who Will Jesus Damn?

Here is a partial list from just a few scripture verses:

Hypocrites (Matthew 24:51), The Unforgiving (Mark 11:26), Homosexuals (Romans 1:26, 27), Fornicators (Romans 1:29), The Wicked (Romans 1:29), The Covetous (Romans 1:29), The Malicious (Romans 1:29), The Envious (Romans 1:29), Murderers (Romans 1:29), The Deceitful (Romans 1:29), Backbiters (Romans 1:30), Haters of God (Romans 1:30), The Despiteful (Romans 1:30), The Proud (Romans 1:30), Boasters (Romans 1:30), Inventors of evil (Romans 1:30), Disobedient to parents (Romans 1:30), Covenant breakers (Romans 1:31), The Unmerciful (Romans 1:31), The Implacable (Romans 1:31), The Unrighteous (1Corinthians 6:9), Idolaters (1Corinthians 6:9), Adulterers (1Corinthians 6:9), The Effeminate (1Corinthians 6:9), Thieves (1Corinthians 6:10), Drunkards (1Corinthians 6:10), Reviler (1Corinthians 6:10), Extortioners (1Corinthians 6:10), The Fearful (Revelation 21:8), The Unbelieving (Revelation 21:8), The Abominable (Revelation 21:8), Whoremongers (Revelation 21:8), Sorcerers (Revelation 21:8), All Liars (Revelation 21:8)

Need Pastoral Advice? Contact me privately at PastorEzekiel@landoverbaptist.net TODAY!!
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Default Re: Question - 11-27-2007, 01:09 PM

They are contradictions, because they tell the opposite things. You quoted something written by a man, not God. You tell me to believe what MEN have written. You tell me God has told you can trust it. A human tells me God says I can trust the Bible. And, you quoted about satan's lies. How can I trust the Bible isn't one of them? How can I trust YOU aren't lying? Please, tell me, because I wish to believe you. Oh, and we do not worship moomins.

Prayers for you all.
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Default Re: Question - 11-27-2007, 01:12 PM

Every single prophecy in the KJV Bible has come true! Take a look at THIS!

No one could fake those.


Who Will Jesus Damn?

Here is a partial list from just a few scripture verses:

Hypocrites (Matthew 24:51), The Unforgiving (Mark 11:26), Homosexuals (Romans 1:26, 27), Fornicators (Romans 1:29), The Wicked (Romans 1:29), The Covetous (Romans 1:29), The Malicious (Romans 1:29), The Envious (Romans 1:29), Murderers (Romans 1:29), The Deceitful (Romans 1:29), Backbiters (Romans 1:30), Haters of God (Romans 1:30), The Despiteful (Romans 1:30), The Proud (Romans 1:30), Boasters (Romans 1:30), Inventors of evil (Romans 1:30), Disobedient to parents (Romans 1:30), Covenant breakers (Romans 1:31), The Unmerciful (Romans 1:31), The Implacable (Romans 1:31), The Unrighteous (1Corinthians 6:9), Idolaters (1Corinthians 6:9), Adulterers (1Corinthians 6:9), The Effeminate (1Corinthians 6:9), Thieves (1Corinthians 6:10), Drunkards (1Corinthians 6:10), Reviler (1Corinthians 6:10), Extortioners (1Corinthians 6:10), The Fearful (Revelation 21:8), The Unbelieving (Revelation 21:8), The Abominable (Revelation 21:8), Whoremongers (Revelation 21:8), Sorcerers (Revelation 21:8), All Liars (Revelation 21:8)

Need Pastoral Advice? Contact me privately at PastorEzekiel@landoverbaptist.net TODAY!!
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Default Re: Question - 11-27-2007, 01:26 PM

Hmm. Convincing. However, the books in the Bible were chosen whilst some were ruled out. So those choosing them could easily have taken ones with no contradictions to each other. And besides, the "Heretic traps" you've collected ARE contradictions. And the story, or truth, about ous Savior Christ has been recorded by humans. Which makes it untrustworthy to me.
You have, however, strengthened my faith in the Bible and given me a lot to think about. I thank you for that.

Prayers to you all.
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Talking Re: Question - 11-27-2007, 01:27 PM

You'll have to forgive this Ezekiel character. He like so many other Christians are in total denial.

You know as well as anyone else that has the ability to read that the BIble is full of contradictions. This is because a lot of the books were written WAY after the stories actually happened.

They will tell you here to use the KJV1611.....which is arguably the WORST version of the Bible that you could use. King James fudged the language big time. IT is not a literal translation.

IF you want to BEST versions of the BIble I would recommend learning Hebrew and reading the Bible.

KJV is rubbish. Anyone that says differently doesn't know a thing about scholarly work.
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Default Re: Question - 11-27-2007, 01:32 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by RautaKansleri View Post
I seriously just HAVE to ask this: how can you possibly trust anything that is written in the Bible? I mean, it's written by humans, not God. Humans, that make mistakes. Even if God told the writers of Bible exactly what to write, I'm sure they have made mistakes, and added something of their own. In fact, it was men that did NOT write the Bible, who decided what should be in the Bible. I sincerely want to believe everything that is written there, but I just cannot, because I cannot trust it when someone says that everything in the Bible is the word of God...
The bible is the one true word. Many have come on this forum spouting nonsense and so-called logic, but we will not be deterred! If a person don't follow the bible, well, then, they don't go to heaven neither. Would you take that chance, and end up screaming in the flame-pit with Papa La Bas?
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Default Re: Question - 11-27-2007, 01:37 PM

I agree with you, I know it IS full of contradictions even though I haven't even read the whole Bible. I have not yet found any way to trust it. In some books, God is vengeful and unforgiving, yet some other books of the Bible tell us that we merely need to believe in God and regret our sins and we are saved. In fact, something these guys here use a lot is "If you aren't with me, you're against me". I can't remember in which book it was, but strangely, I found somewhere in the Bible a chapter where Jesus says "If you aren't against me, you're with me"... And if THAT isn't a contradiction, I don't know what is...

Prayers to you all.
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Default Re: Question - 11-27-2007, 01:52 PM

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The bible is the one true word. Many have come on this forum spouting nonsense and so-called logic, but we will not be deterred! If a person don't follow the bible, well, then, they don't go to heaven neither. Would you take that chance, and end up screaming in the flame-pit with Papa La Bas?
Oh, right. Again one of these. "The Bible is true because the Bible says so and the Bible is the word of God" and so on, yada yada, I know this. The only person that can make me believe that is God. No human can make me trust a product of humans, because humans are not perfect like God. At least not by saying things like that. Sorry, but that was not convincing.

Ei näin.

Prayers for you all.
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Default Re: Question - 11-27-2007, 01:56 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by RautaKansleri View Post
Oh, right. Again one of these. "The Bible is true because the Bible says so and the Bible is the word of God" and so on, yada yada, I know this. The only person that can make me believe that is God. No human can make me trust a product of humans, because humans are not perfect like God. At least not by saying things like that. Sorry, but that was not convincing.

Ei näin.

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Hello, y'all want proof of the bible being the word of God? Read it, sugar!
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Default Re: Question - 11-27-2007, 01:59 PM

I haven't read it, true. But I've read enough to tell that it is full of contradictions and I know it's written by humans. Truth or not, I can't trust it yet.

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Default Re: Question - 11-27-2007, 02:33 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by RautaKansleri View Post
Hmm. Convincing. However, the books in the Bible were chosen whilst some were ruled out. So those choosing them could easily have taken ones with no contradictions to each other. And besides, the "Heretic traps" you've collected ARE contradictions.
Looks like we've caught a heretic in God's Heretic Traps.
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Originally Posted by Father Septic Tank View Post
KJV is rubbish. Anyone that says differently doesn't know a thing about scholarly work.
And anyone who denies that the KJV 1611 is the Holy Word of God doesn't know a thing about avoiding hellfire.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RautaKansleri View Post
In fact, something these guys here use a lot is "If you aren't with me, you're against me". I can't remember in which book it was, but strangely, I found somewhere in the Bible a chapter where Jesus says "If you aren't against me, you're with me"... And if THAT isn't a contradiction, I don't know what is...
Evidently you don't know what a contradiction is. If Jesus said "If you are with me, you're against me", that'd be a contradiction. When He said "If you aren't with me, you're against me", He was just pre-emptively quoting George Bush. Nothing wrong with that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RautaKansleri View Post
Oh, right. Again one of these. "The Bible is true because the Bible says so and the Bible is the word of God" and so on, yada yada, I know this. The only person that can make me believe that is God. No human can make me trust a product of humans, because humans are not perfect like God.
We're not trying to make you trust a product of humans, you doomed Finnish orc! We just want you to trust the word of God!


O Lord our God, help us to tear their soldiers to bloody shreds with our shells; help us to cover their smiling fields with the pale forms of their patriot dead; help us to drown the thunder of the guns with the shrieks of their wounded, writhing in pain; help us to lay waste their humble homes with a hurricane of fire; help us to wring the hearts of their unoffending widows with unavailing grief; help us to turn them out roofless with little children to wander unfriended the wastes of their desolated land in rags and hunger and thirst, sports of the sun flames of summer and the icy winds of winter, broken in spirit, worn with travail, imploring Thee for the refuge of the grave and denied it--for our sakes who adore Thee, Lord, blast their hopes, blight their lives, protract their bitter pilgrimage, make heavy their steps, water their way with their tears, stain the white snow with the blood of their wounded feet! We ask it, in the spirit of love, of Him Who is the Source of Love, and Who is the ever-faithful refuge and friend of all that are sore beset and seek His aid with humble and contrite hearts. Amen.


God being truth, justice, goodness, beauty, power, and life, man is falsehood, iniquity, evil, ugliness, impotence, and death. God being master, man is the slave. Incapable of finding justice, truth, and eternal life by his own effort, he can attain them only through a divine revelation... he who desires to worship God must harbor no childish illusions about the matter, but bravely renounce his liberty and humanity.
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Default Re: Question - 11-27-2007, 02:34 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by RautaKansleri View Post
I haven't read it, true. But I've read enough to tell that it is full of contradictions and I know it's written by humans. Truth or not, I can't trust it yet.

Ei näin.
Friend,

There are no contradictions in The Bible. What a silly idea. Just show us one contradiction.



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Default Re: Question - 11-27-2007, 02:44 PM

God dwells in light
Tim 6:16

God dwells in darkness
1 Kings 8:12/ Ps 18:11/ Ps 97:2

God is all powerful
Jer 32:27/ Matt 19:26

God is not all powerful
Judg 1:19

God is just and impartial
Ps 92:15/ Gen 18:25/ Deut 32:4/ Rom 2:11/ Ezek 18:25

God is unjust and partial
Gen 9:25/ Ex 20:5/ Rom 9:11-13/ Matt 13:12

God is the author of evil
Lam 3:38/ Jer 18:11/ Is 45:7/ Amos 3:6/ Ezek 20:25

God is not the author of evil
1 Cor 14:33/ Deut 32:4/ James 1:13

There you go, contradictions.
Please, do not mock my nationality, I don't mock yours. In fact I'm not mocking you at all. And by the way, the contradiction is that Jesus says BOTH things, that if you're not with him, you're against him, AND that if you're not against him, youre with him. Sorry.

And you said it, *YOU* want me to believe in God's word, but YOU are humans. And humans can't make me believe that something written by men is the word of God.

Ei näin.
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Default Re: Question - 11-27-2007, 02:50 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by RautaKansleri View Post
And by the way, the contradiction is that Jesus says BOTH things, that if you're not with him, you're against him, AND that if you're not against him, youre with him. Sorry.
What is wrong with you, you abominable little Finndevil? That's not a contradiction, that's logic! Let's try re-phrasing this:
"If you are not a Christian, you are hellbound."
"If you are not hellbound, you are a Christian."
Are you seriously claiming that's a contraction?


O Lord our God, help us to tear their soldiers to bloody shreds with our shells; help us to cover their smiling fields with the pale forms of their patriot dead; help us to drown the thunder of the guns with the shrieks of their wounded, writhing in pain; help us to lay waste their humble homes with a hurricane of fire; help us to wring the hearts of their unoffending widows with unavailing grief; help us to turn them out roofless with little children to wander unfriended the wastes of their desolated land in rags and hunger and thirst, sports of the sun flames of summer and the icy winds of winter, broken in spirit, worn with travail, imploring Thee for the refuge of the grave and denied it--for our sakes who adore Thee, Lord, blast their hopes, blight their lives, protract their bitter pilgrimage, make heavy their steps, water their way with their tears, stain the white snow with the blood of their wounded feet! We ask it, in the spirit of love, of Him Who is the Source of Love, and Who is the ever-faithful refuge and friend of all that are sore beset and seek His aid with humble and contrite hearts. Amen.


God being truth, justice, goodness, beauty, power, and life, man is falsehood, iniquity, evil, ugliness, impotence, and death. God being master, man is the slave. Incapable of finding justice, truth, and eternal life by his own effort, he can attain them only through a divine revelation... he who desires to worship God must harbor no childish illusions about the matter, but bravely renounce his liberty and humanity.
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Default Re: Question - 11-27-2007, 03:05 PM

Yes, it does make sense when you put it that way. But you use it differently. The fact that someone is not a christian doesn't mean their hellbound, UNLESS they're against Jesus. That's my point. When you say it, it means that if you're not a christian, you're a satanist. But I think I should be somehow against Jesus to be his enemy. And since there are also religions that tolerate other gods and aren't against them, then saying "If you're not against me, you're with me" means that they, too, are on the side of God. And again, I ask you not to hurl insults because they are untrue and have no effect on me, you are wasting your time when insult me.

Ei näin.
Prayers for you all.
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