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Thumbs up Bible Study: why genocide is morally acceptable. - 05-24-2010, 01:29 PM

Brothers and Sisters in Christ,

recently I visited the website of CARM (Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry), to search for interesting, new theological insights. As usual, some articles were demonic and reprehensible, while others were Godly and brimming with Biblical Truth.

However, one in particular caught my attention:

Quote:
(Deuteronomy 2:33-34) - "And the Lord our God delivered him over to us; and we defeated him with his sons and all his people. 34So we captured all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, women and children of every city. We left no survivor."

The command by God to kill all inside a city is seen by many to be immoral and a demonstration that the Bible is not true. But, we must examine the issue in light of its context, its biblical context, not in light of present day, non-Christian assumptions. If we want to see if it is moral or not, we must know which morals are in question.
What the author of this article forgets to mention that the assumption that "because God does something which would be "evil," He therefore can't exist" is a fallacy, as God's existence is, in principle, independant from His Moral Behavior.

But for the rest, I agree with the author here. Of course, when you apply modern "morals" to the Bible, the Bible becomes reprehensible; but then we forget that modern "morals" are result of humanistic "enlightened" thinking, specifically designed to mock God's Word.

That's why evil doctrines like the demonic Geneva Convention are so completely opposed to Biblical Morality: they are the product of a culture which desires to mock God, and one example is the condemnation of genocide as an evil thing. God doesn't think it is evil, so neither do I. To explain this, let's read further:

Quote:
First of all, the context of this verse is dealing with the wickedness of the Amorite king Sihon of Hesbon, a city of the Amorites (Num. 21:25). They were a wicked people (Gen. 15:16; 2 Kings 21:11). When the Israelites wanted to pass through their land during their exodus from Egypt, the Amorites refused them safe passage and attacked the Israelites. However, they were soundly defeated by Israel (Num. 21:21-31). It is in this context that God delivered them over to the Israelites; that is, in the context of the battle.
Why would the decision of the Amorites be so serious to God that He would have all their people wiped out? The answer is simple. God tells the Israelites why the people were destroyed. It was because of the wickedness of the Amorite people.
"It is not for your righteousness or for the uprightness of your heart that you are going to possess their land, but it is because of the wickedness of these nations that the Lord your God is driving them out before you, in order to confirm the oath which the Lord swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob," (Deut. 9:5).
God has declared that the Amorite people deserved to die because of their sins. They remained unrepentant (unlike Nineveh) and the righteous wrath of God fell upon them via the Israelites. Since all are sinners, all deserve to die. They were no exception. Nevertheless, God is merciful by allowing them to live. In the case of the Amorites, God was gracious to them by letting them live and enjoy life with its generic blessings from God (provision of rain, sun, water, etc.), while He encouraged them to repent of their sins. They refused to turn from their immorality and were finally wiped out.
The author does really well here, in describing the Patience and Mercy of the Lord. You see, God doesn't order genocide without reason: the Amorites got it coming. The Amorites committed the Sin of not worshiping Yahweh, while it was Yahweh who provided them with rain and water, and who created the sun on Day 4 of Creation.

And as the author rightly remarks, all deserve to die:

Romans 3:23:
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God

Romans 6:23:
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Note that God doesn't exclude anybody here. Many fluffy-bunny liberal Christians like to believe that babies and little children are innocent and have not sinned, but the Bible doesn't support this ridiculous assertion anywhere. So, everyone on this planet deserves death, also the babies, little children, unborn babies and mentally disabled people.

But here both is the crown jewel of this great article, as well as the point I disagree strongest with:

Quote:
Also, the death of a child might be a very merciful thing because had the child grown up in the sin of the Amorite culture, it would surely have suffered the eternal wrath of God. If the "age of accountability" notion is correct, then God delivered them into His hands and it is possible that by this they were spared eternal damnation.

The final and most important reason for their destruction is that God needed to keep the messianic line pure so that Jesus could be born and thereby redeem His people so that believers could go to heaven. Without Jesus' sacrifice, all would be damned. If the Amorites were allowed to live, surely they would have influence the Jewish nation in a harmful way thereby threatening the arrival of the Messiah. Therefore, God in His righteous judgment executed judgment upon them.
First of all, the notion of the "age of accountability" (which says that little children or retards are sinless) is heresy, plain and simple. Scripture never supports such a notion, and even contradicts it:

Psalm 51:5:
Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

Psalm 58:3:
The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.


However, the truth is that these children wouldn't have a happy life, as they would grow up in the sin of the Amorites. So, by slaughtering them, they are spared a life full of sin, pain and unhappiness, so that only an Afterlife of sin, pain and unhappiness remains. Truly, Our Lord is merciful in ordering the genocide of these people. Praise Jesus!

The second part is probably even more important here. The Amorites no doubt would have had a bad influence on the Israelites, and cause them to worship idols, and their seed would intermingle with the seed of Israel, which is prohibited by the Law:

Deuteronomy 7:1-3:
When the LORD thy God shall bring thee into the land whither thou goest to possess it, and hath cast out many nations before thee, the Hittites, and the Girgashites, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than thou;
And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them:
Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son.

God had decided that the Israelite race was above all others, because the Messiah would be born in the race of the Israelites:

Deuteronomy 10:15:
Only the LORD had a delight in thy fathers to love them, and he chose their seed after them, even you above all people, as it is this day.

Therefore, to prevent future contamination of both the seed of Israel and the minds of the Israelites, the genocide on the Amorites was necessary. Otherwise, there wouldn't have been a Jesus, and all of us would burn in Hell! Isn't allowing the birth of the Messiah the noblest purpose man can think of? Of course this justifies genocide.

Note that, if you were a True Christian™, you wouldn't have doubted the righteousness of this genocide in the first place, as God is Love (1 John 4:8), which justifies it. I am mainly addressing the hypocritical false Christians, who cherry-pick the nice parts of the Bible and ignore the harsher parts, to make the Bible agree with their "enlightened" humanistic worldviews. I hope I have clearly shown that this position is untenable.

I would like to conclude by praising God for His Love and His Justice, like Jeremiah did:

Jeremiah 32:18:
Thou shewest lovingkindness unto thousands, and recompensest the iniquity of the fathers into the bosom of their children after them: the Great, the Mighty God, the LORD of hosts, is his name.


Yours in Christ,

True Disciple


Sweet Lord Jesus,
I want to pray for those who persecute me, my Lord.
Please, treat their children as you treated those of Egypt, when they upset you! (Psalm 135:8-9)
Dash their little children against the stones for their fathers iniquity! (Psalm 137:8-9)
Hit them on the cheek, and smash out their teeth! (Psalm 3:7)
Make their death and descent into Hell swift and terrible! (Psalm 55:15)
Scatter their broken bodies over the streets of their evil cities, like Benghazi, Amsterdam, Tokyo and Mecca! (Psalm 110:6)
Praised be Your Glorious Name™.

Amen.

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Default Re: Bible Study: why genocide is morally acceptable. - 05-24-2010, 09:24 PM

Sir, this is truly Godly, Biblical inspired insight. While reading these Biblical references to genocide it occurred to me that perhaps Adolph Hitler was grossly misjudged. As we all know, the name Adolph Hitler has become THE synonym for evil personified , just because he was chiefly responsible for the outbreak of World War II, which resulted in a worldwide death count of up to 60,000,000 people.

The sixty million figure includes, combatants, civilian bombing casualties, victims of famine,drowned merchant seamen, as well as the famous millions of Jews, Gypsies, Homos and various other victims of the holocaust extermination camps, such as Dachau, Auschwitz etc.

The thought that struck me was: Imagine a Jewish person who was rounded up by the Gestapo and sent to one of these camps and instead of being gassed and cremated immediately, was worked and starved to death.
Before dying, this person had endured the trauma of family separation, and perhaps watching them die. And one minute after finding peace in death, realize that Hitler's torment's were just a preview of coming attractions for what God has in store for those who reject Jesus.

God's crematoria is ALOT bigger and it lasts FOREVER and ........ unlike Hitler's ovens where you were dead before being incinerated.... Those in Hell are conscious and get to feel the agony of burning forever!!!

Praise Him!! Amen
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Default Re: Bible Study: why genocide is morally acceptable. - 05-24-2010, 10:13 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Barnabus View Post
Sir, this is truly Godly, Biblical inspired insight. While reading these Biblical references to genocide it occurred to me that perhaps Adolph Hitler was grossly misjudged. As we all know, the name Adolph Hitler has become THE synonym for evil personified , just because he was chiefly responsible for the outbreak of World War II, which resulted in a worldwide death count of up to 60,000,000 people.

The sixty million figure includes, combatants, civilian bombing casualties, victims of famine,drowned merchant seamen, as well as the famous millions of Jews, Gypsies, Homos and various other victims of the holocaust extermination camps, such as Dachau, Auschwitz etc.

The thought that struck me was: Imagine a Jewish person who was rounded up by the Gestapo and sent to one of these camps and instead of being gassed and cremated immediately, was worked and starved to death.
Before dying, this person had endured the trauma of family separation, and perhaps watching them die. And one minute after finding peace in death, realize that Hitler's torment's were just a preview of coming attractions for what God has in store for those who reject Jesus.

God's crematoria is ALOT bigger and it lasts FOREVER and ........ unlike Hitler's ovens where you were dead before being incinerated.... Those in Hell are conscious and get to feel the agony of burning forever!!!

Praise Him!! Amen
Well, though I appreciate your input, which is an interesting view on the case of the Second World War, I think that Hitler couldn't possibly have been a True Christian™. This is because Hitler was a devout catholic, as well as a promoter of neopagan ideologies. And catholics serve the devil, not God.

Also, he declared war on America, God's favorite country. If he were a Godly Man, he wouldn't dare to raise a finger to God's precious American People.


Sweet Lord Jesus,
I want to pray for those who persecute me, my Lord.
Please, treat their children as you treated those of Egypt, when they upset you! (Psalm 135:8-9)
Dash their little children against the stones for their fathers iniquity! (Psalm 137:8-9)
Hit them on the cheek, and smash out their teeth! (Psalm 3:7)
Make their death and descent into Hell swift and terrible! (Psalm 55:15)
Scatter their broken bodies over the streets of their evil cities, like Benghazi, Amsterdam, Tokyo and Mecca! (Psalm 110:6)
Praised be Your Glorious Name™.

Amen.

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Default Re: Bible Study: why genocide is morally acceptable. - 05-24-2010, 11:59 PM

I apologize brother TD. I believe my point was lost amongst my ramblings.
Which was: No earthly despot, tyrant, dictator, megalomaniac or even a democrat, no matter how powerful, can ever hope to match the power or glory of our own TRUE GOD.

Amen
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Default Re: Bible Study: why genocide is morally acceptable. - 05-25-2010, 01:54 AM

That's great, because I can think of a few cases where genocide is recommended.


May you be a blessing to every life you touch.
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Default Re: Bible Study: why genocide is morally acceptable. - 05-25-2010, 03:06 AM

Too, too true, Brother True. Yes sir. You have presented the True Word of True Christianity with unassailable courage.


Most importantly, you have not presummed to "protect" God from a little "bad press". God has promised to protect us if we follow His Word. And He has given us abundantly clear instructions on how we may serve Him, but Our Father doesn't need us to hem and haw and try to "soften" His image to make Him more of a regular joe kind of Deity.

Genocide is one of those loaded words that gets people worked up. Everyone and his uncle is being accused of it left and right. Offer to teach a bunch of illiterate sun-baked forest folks how to read so that they can learn of His Word and somehow we're "wiping out" their culture.

If we, His people, are not given any loop holes for the conditions of our obediance to His Word, why would a bunch of non-believers think that they can impose their puny, culturally changeable, merely mortal, moral code upon the Creator of the Universe?

God will bless you for your courage, your forthrightness and your correctness in proclaiming His Word. You are not unlike John the Baptist-- a voice crying out in a wilderness of wimpy world views.

I am so deeply moved that I must take my trembling self off to have a cool drink and quiet reflection. Bless you dear young man.

Upliftedly Yours,

Handmaiden


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Default Re: Bible Study: why genocide is morally acceptable. - 05-25-2010, 11:15 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Barnabus View Post
I apologize brother TD. I believe my point was lost amongst my ramblings.
Which was: No earthly despot, tyrant, dictator, megalomaniac or even a democrat, no matter how powerful, can ever hope to match the power or glory of our own TRUE GOD.

Amen
There is no need to apologize, Brother. I always think it is characteristic of liberal false christians how they view Hitler: as one of the greatest killers of men in all history, and the epitome of evil. Little wonder, then, that these folks have so much trouble accepting the Truth™ of the God of the Bible, who makes Hitler seem a pacifist pussy in comparison. That might be why they ignore parts of the Bible they don't like, which often is everything except John 3:16 and 1 John 4:8.

Quote:
Originally Posted by handmaiden View Post
Genocide is one of those loaded words that gets people worked up. Everyone and his uncle is being accused of it left and right. Offer to teach a bunch of illiterate sun-baked forest folks how to read so that they can learn of His Word and somehow we're "wiping out" their culture.
For modern-day liberal humanistic human-rights-believers, genocide seems to be a cardinal evil. The Bible predicted that these haters of God and lovers of evil would come:

2 Peter 3:1-4:
This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

Of course, this is because they are blinded to the Truth™:

2 Corinthians 4:1-5:
Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not;
But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.
But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.

The orange part of the above Passage tells of the difference between us, who follow the the entire Bible to the letter, and the liberal christians and their cutting apart of the Bible (dishonesty) and twisting of God's Words (craftiness and deceit).

God, however, abhors of people who think they should "follow their own moral compass," which, of course, is just a form of rebellion against God. God didn't create us as whiners about "human rights," because the only right we have is to burn in Hell (Romans 3:23 & Romans 6:23). God created us as upright people, who do not question His Will:

Ecclesiastes 7:29:
Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions.


And God does not take rebellion against His Word lightly:

Deuteronomy 29:19-20:
And it come to pass, when he heareth the words of this curse, that he bless himself in his heart, saying, I shall have peace, though I walk in the imagination of mine heart, to add drunkenness to thirst:
The LORD will not spare him, but then the anger of the LORD and his jealousy shall smoke against that man, and all the curses that are written in this book shall lie upon him, and the LORD shall blot out his name from under heaven.

The awful truth is, it will only become worse, and when God starts punishing these people for their iniquity, they will still not worship him instead of their own "enlightened" ideas:

Revelation 16:8-9:
And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.
And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.

When I read this, I always feel very sad about the complete absence of Love in the people that are described here. Their place will be in Hell:

Revelation 21:8:
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.


I consider myself a lucky man to have learned of the True Love™ of the God of the Bible.


Sweet Lord Jesus,
I want to pray for those who persecute me, my Lord.
Please, treat their children as you treated those of Egypt, when they upset you! (Psalm 135:8-9)
Dash their little children against the stones for their fathers iniquity! (Psalm 137:8-9)
Hit them on the cheek, and smash out their teeth! (Psalm 3:7)
Make their death and descent into Hell swift and terrible! (Psalm 55:15)
Scatter their broken bodies over the streets of their evil cities, like Benghazi, Amsterdam, Tokyo and Mecca! (Psalm 110:6)
Praised be Your Glorious Name™.

Amen.

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Default Re: Bible Study: why genocide is morally acceptable. - 05-25-2010, 02:48 PM

I notice the quotation used from the site
Quote:
Also, the death of a child might be a very merciful thing because had the child grown up in the sin of the Amorite culture, it would surely have suffered the eternal wrath of God. If the "age of accountability" notion is correct, then God delivered them into His hands and it is possible that by this they were spared eternal damnation.
What is this, “age of accountability notion?” It seems simple to me, unless you are a true Christian, following every single Command of The Lord of Hosts and accept Christ as your Savior, when He calls, you are damned for eternity. Even the Catlix agree that dead babies go to hell (although they later amended it several times and now no one’s sure about the matter.)





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Map of the Known World; Periodic Table of Elements; The History of Linguistics; The Errors of Wicca; Dolphins and Evolution; The History of Landover (The Apology); Landover and the Civil War; 2000 Racial Slurs.
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Default Re: Bible Study: why genocide is morally acceptable. - 05-25-2010, 05:13 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezekiel Bathfire View Post
What is this, “age of accountability notion?”
Exactly Brother, that was the main point I disagreed with. It seems that many liberal christians can't stomach the idea of little babies having their skin flayed off every day again and again for all eternity, and therefore try to dilute God's Word on this point, even though It is abundantly clear on the Hell thing.

I don't really get their point. Imagine, if babies would get Saved™ automatically, then the most loving thing a parent could do to his newborn child would be to kill it, to Save it from Hellfire.

People would be killing babies everywhere, and disobey God's Order to replenish the earth out of love for their children:

Genesis 9:1:
And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.


Additionally, in my opinion, it would be very dishonest if they got a free ticket to Heaven, while we would have to attain Salvation™. The Bible confirms that God is a righteous God, and will not allow babies into Heaven if they did not confess Jesus with their mouths:

Romans 10:9-10:

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

There is no clause for children, babies or the mentally handicapped in the above Verse, and neither is there anywhere else in the Bible. Meanwhile, Psalm 51:5 and 58:3 confirm that babies do evil as well. Case closed, I'd say.


Sweet Lord Jesus,
I want to pray for those who persecute me, my Lord.
Please, treat their children as you treated those of Egypt, when they upset you! (Psalm 135:8-9)
Dash their little children against the stones for their fathers iniquity! (Psalm 137:8-9)
Hit them on the cheek, and smash out their teeth! (Psalm 3:7)
Make their death and descent into Hell swift and terrible! (Psalm 55:15)
Scatter their broken bodies over the streets of their evil cities, like Benghazi, Amsterdam, Tokyo and Mecca! (Psalm 110:6)
Praised be Your Glorious Name™.

Amen.

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Default Re: Bible Study: why genocide is morally acceptable. - 01-24-2011, 09:43 AM

America is gods favorite country?

America has not always been, nor will it always be, therefore your logic is completely flawed. Indeed, I doubt god would play favorites.

But that's what it comes down to doesn't it? It's about you, proving god is awesome and that you're right because of it.

Well spoiler alert bro.

The bible was written by a collection of people who heard from some people who heard from some people who said they might have seen Jesus do something. There is no reputable evidence for anything in the bible or any other religious text for that matter.

Promoting genocide because some book told you to is morally reprehensible on the deepest level, and a demonstration of your inability to think for yourself.

Religion is a tool of control, designed by humans, used by humans, and ultimately corrupted by humans.

Why should you kill someone who doesn't believe in your god? Because guess what, IF you're right, then that person is GOING TO HELL. THEY ARE COMPLETELY DICKED, and what are you like gods little FedEx man? You have to speed up their journey to hell (provided hell exists)?

Live and let live, and if your right, then they get what they deserve for being infidels.

What if. What if JUST FOR A SECOND, you're wrong. God might not exist. Or even if he does and you're right, people may have taken the bible out of context. What if you needlessly kill one person? You take from them the divine gift that is life?

Can you look yourself in the mirror and say that every single death caused in the name of god throughout history was justified? EVERY SINGLE ONE? Because if they are not, then people like you are accomplices to needless slaughter. Murder.

Thou shall not kill.

Think about it
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