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Default Moses Did Not Stop Working for 40 Years Because of Free Mana - 10-17-2022, 12:02 AM

A new fellow at the Freehold Senior Center wanted to argue yesterday. He said Moses was a lazy bum and did not work for 40 years because God gave him free food. I was not in the mood to argue so I quickly moved on.

It is simply not true that Moses loafed for 40 years because God gave him and his people free meals. It is true they did not have to work for 40 years but this was not socialism. The 40 years of free food was a reward from God to Moses for guiding God's people out of Egypt. It was a win-win business deal.




Isaiah 24:1-3 Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty (2)...as the taker of usury, so with the giver of usury to him. (3) The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the LORD hath spoken his word.
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Default Re: Moses Did Not Stop Working for 40 Years Because of Free Mana - 10-18-2022, 02:00 AM

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Originally Posted by Johny Joe Hold View Post
A new fellow at the Freehold Senior Center wanted to argue yesterday. He said Moses was a lazy bum and did not work for 40 years because God gave him free food. I was not in the mood to argue so I quickly moved on.

It is simply not true that Moses loafed for 40 years because God gave him and his people free meals. It is true they did not have to work for 40 years but this was not socialism. The 40 years of free food was a reward from God to Moses for guiding God's people out of Egypt. It was a win-win business deal.

Some People! What exactly do they think Moses' job was? Bricklayer? Seamstress? Train driver? These are the same morons who say that Pastors don't do anything except charge people to hear whatever it is they're paying to hear (otherwise they'd go somewhere else and pay them instead) whereas, in reality, Pastors (and Moses) have the most important job description there is!

First of all, God had to get His Chosen People to arrive at His Holy Mountain in time to receive The Ten Commandments – otherwise how would they know right from wrong? Left to their own devices they could have turned up at any old mountain and received laws from devils.
I Corinthians 10:21 Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.
Then they had to find The Promised Land. Imagine if they'd taken a wrong turn and finished up in The Yemen or Djibouti? Idols everywhere to this day! Quaffing away at the cup of devils, goodness only knows what temple rites they'd dream up, blasted forever. And God all alone on the correct mountain: “Where are they? Where my people gone?” so sad. Even now, although Redeemed, we are subject to devilish attack (futile attacks, admittedly) but before accepting Christ what guidance did we have? The guidance of Pastors to make sure we understood just as Maose made sure, all those years ago.
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Default Re: Moses Did Not Stop Working for 40 Years Because of Free Mana - 10-18-2022, 10:05 AM

Moses had the world's worst job. He somehow managed to keep tens of thousands of Jews on the righteous path of God--and we all know what complainers the Jews are! The man was a saint.


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Default Re: Moses Did Not Stop Working for 40 Years Because of Free Mana - 10-18-2022, 01:39 PM

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Originally Posted by WWJDnow View Post
Moses had the world's worst job. He somehow managed to keep tens of thousands of Jews on the righteous path of God--and we all know what complainers the Jews are! The man was a saint.
And think about what he was up against. He left to go up the mountain to chat with God. As soon as he was out of sight the Jews started worshipping idols. For 40 years he had to be on constant patrol, condemning idols that must have appeared as soon as his back was turned. He had to patrol constantly. I don't know how he did it. A free meal ticket was barely enough compensation.


Isaiah 24:1-3 Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty (2)...as the taker of usury, so with the giver of usury to him. (3) The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the LORD hath spoken his word.
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Default Re: Moses Did Not Stop Working for 40 Years Because of Free Mana - 10-20-2022, 07:29 AM

This whole exchange has me triggered - some people just don't read their Bible (KJV1611) to assert that Moses just sat on his posterior for 40 years.

First of all, by some estimates there were between 1.5 and 2 million whining Jews that wandered around the desert for 40 years. Sure, the Manna (God's K-rations) was "free" - but then think about the organization. The Manna had to be picked up first, and then think about all the latrines that had to be dug outside of camp to keep away disease - and then the latrines had to be periodically covered up. And then consider the menstra problems that I won't go into.

Indeed, Moses had to have the skills and workload of a Mayor of a fair sized city in today's context - and without a limo and staff to drive him around to meetings.


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Default Re: Moses Did Not Stop Working for 40 Years Because of Free Mana - 10-20-2022, 10:49 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamJenningsBryan View Post
million[s]
And there was all the livestock. Six hundred thousand men Exodus 12:37 together with, say, two wives each makes eighteen hundred thousand. Children were present but not counted so if each wife has 2 or 3, that's
600,000 (men) × 2 (average wives)1,200,000
1⅕ million (wives) × 2½ (children)3,000,000
TOTAL
4,200,000
in addition to the initial 600,000 men. They are not described as having a few moth-eaten goats or pathetic herd of pygargs. Maybe a giraffe. Quite the reverse – livestock accompanying the Israelites was abundant. Egypt's fertile delta region, fed by the River Nile, is very productive land and The Israelites prevented famine during droughts through better farm management. That's why they were there in the first place, after Joseph saved the day for Pharaoh a few generations back. Another place having a similar population and excellent agricultural land is New Zealand. Sheep outnumber humans about 10 to 1 but recently cattle (dairy) have overtaken sheep and, they have large cities where there are no sheep at all. That is a good comparison, I thought.
Exodus 12:38 And a mixed multitude went up also with them; and flocks, and herds, even very much cattle.
That's "very much cattle" by Nile Delta standards so a goodish number, including sheep God would require for sacrifice after The Law was handed down, all of which would need to be kept alive. There weren't even any Levites designated at that stage – but Aaron assisted when he could be bothered to follow God's instructions.

As far as I'm aware they kept on the move with intermittent semi-permanent camp sites but would have been spread out more than a city such as Aukland. I am not sure about the latrines but there'd be plenty of manure available and the manna went rotten overnight, spontaneously generating worms. Perhaps instead of latrines Moses used worm farms?
Exodus 16:20-21

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Default Re: Moses Did Not Stop Working for 40 Years Because of Free Mana - 10-20-2022, 02:19 PM

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Originally Posted by MitzaLizalor View Post
And there was all the livestock.
in addition to the initial 600,000 men. They are not described as having a few moth-eaten goats or pathetic herd of pygargs. Maybe a giraffe. Quite the reverse – livestock accompanying the Israelites was abundant.
Exodus 12:38 And a mixed multitude went up also with them; and flocks, and herds, even very much cattle.
Psalm 28:74 tells us God provided bread and grain. It wouldn't make sense for Him to send down grain and bread if the livestock ate grass and provided meat and milk. God had to feed them all.
Moses had plenty of work to do. Forty years, men would have forgotten how to farm so Moses had to teach this to all the children. There might have been a million babies born over this long period of time. In addition to this, Moses had to train all the young men about warfare--the Jericho thing was coming up. It must have been difficult to manufacture armament there in the desert but Moses did it.


Isaiah 24:1-3 Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty (2)...as the taker of usury, so with the giver of usury to him. (3) The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the LORD hath spoken his word.
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Default Re: Moses Did Not Stop Working for 40 Years Because of Free Mana - 10-20-2022, 06:40 PM

All the evidence suggests Moses was exceptionally gifted at Leadership. He gave speeches and went on retreats to the mountains from whence he brought forth Rules. He most assuredly would have commissioned Wellness™ seminars for the needy and overseen the nomination of supervisors for the delegating advisory committee executives, not to mention his close mentoring of young boys.


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Default Re: Moses Did Not Stop Working for 40 Years Because of Free Mana - 10-20-2022, 11:13 PM

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Originally Posted by Dr. Anthony J. Toole View Post
All the evidence suggests Moses was exceptionally gifted at Leadership. He gave speeches and went on retreats to the mountains from whence he brought forth Rules. He most assuredly would have commissioned Wellness™ seminars for the needy and overseen the nomination of supervisors for the delegating advisory committee executives, not to mention his close mentoring of young boys.
Wellness™ seminars brings up another responsibility Moses had--the health of four million people. Maybe there were some doctors, but remember the Jews had all been slaves. I think the only source of medical expertise would have been Moses. He was one busy guy.


Isaiah 24:1-3 Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty (2)...as the taker of usury, so with the giver of usury to him. (3) The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the LORD hath spoken his word.
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Default Re: Moses Did Not Stop Working for 40 Years Because of Free Mana - 10-22-2022, 05:43 AM

In fact, why would an holy prophet (now a Saint in Heaven) going on vacantion for this?

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Default Re: Moses Did Not Stop Working for 40 Years Because of Free Mana - 10-22-2022, 09:21 AM

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Originally Posted by Romeo Rovagnati View Post
In fact, why would an holy prophet (now a Saint in Heaven) going on vacantion for this?
Are you sure about that? Catholic Heaven must resemble a motel with "rooms by the hour" Moses popping in and out or returning to earth now and then. You will recall that he had a conversation with Jesus Mark 9:4, suggesting that he is not in Heaven after all. Additionally, many saints resurrected at the time of The Crucifixion Matthew 27:52. We know that humans only die once and subsequently face judgement (this happens in God's timeframe obviously so may appear instantaneous to the deceased person) after which Heaven is one option: there is another place for blaspheming heretics: the two realms are separated by a deep chasm as, no communication being possible with us. Your gem-encrusted skeletons and stuffed popes attest to this. If Moses can communicate with Earth, he must not yet have faced The Judgement. If he has not faced The Judgement, how can he be in Heaven?


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Originally Posted by Johny Joe Hold View Post
Maybe there were some doctors, but remember the Jews had all been slaves.
And high functioning slaves. The first slave was something like a prime minister and speaker of the house rolled into one, overseeing all Pharaoh's business and managing the agricultural sector. That would be like Nancy Pelosi and Angela Merkel at the same time which, I submit, would be quite a handful for any overseer. Except there were millions of them.

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Default Re: Moses Did Not Stop Working for 40 Years Because of Free Mana - 10-22-2022, 11:03 AM

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Originally Posted by MitzaLizalor View Post
And high functioning slaves. The first slave was something like a prime minister and speaker of the house rolled into one, overseeing all Pharaoh's business and managing the agricultural sector. That would be like Nancy Pelosi and Angela Merkel at the same time which, I submit, would be quite a handful for any overseer. Except there were millions of them.

I agree Sister Mitza, the meticulous records kept by the Egyptians show people with Jewish names at high levels of responsibility in Egypt prior to the Exodus. Yet, we know from the Bible the Jews were slaves.

The explanation has to be Egyptians had an award for some Jews called exJew. It would be just like Landover Baptist's award to some called exNegro.

These exJews would have had no reason to follow Moses like the four million who most certainly were enslaved. Maybe some exJews who were chariot drivers and were drowned after they tried to chase Moses through the parted water and Moses cleverly released the water on them.

The exJews, I believe, are the reason there are no records of four million leaving Egypt. The Egyptians would have recorded this but obviously these records were destroyed. That would have been done by the exJews who were running things in Egypt and had some sympathy for their enslaved and ill-treated relatives.

Moses and the Jewish slaves were clever in so many ways. When Moses parted the waters allowing the slaves and their animals to escape, how did he make the land under all that deep water have a hard surface allowing fast movement of four million people and animals?

Then, after the Jews escaped into the desert, they cleverly covered their tracks leaving no trail the Egyptian detectives could follow to catch up to them. Even though they were in the desert for 40 years living off of the grain and mana God dropped for them, no trace of their life there has ever been found. Somewhere there are the remains of a foundry because the Jews had fierce weapons they used in the Battle of Jericho.

The current government of Israel has paid archeologists to look for evidence of their heroic ancestors, probably to have a museum tourist attraction to make money. But all this work has come up with nothing. This is because Moses worked hard and was very skilled at leaving no evidence behind.


Isaiah 24:1-3 Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty (2)...as the taker of usury, so with the giver of usury to him. (3) The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the LORD hath spoken his word.
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Default Re: Moses Did Not Stop Working for 40 Years Because of Free Mana - 10-22-2022, 02:59 PM

Those are very interesting comments. Often the archaeologists look for manure, for example to support their claims about dinosaurs. Although I doubt universities have departments of ordure, fairly certainly such fixed locations as ancient latrines would be sought.

NEBRASKA COPROLITE WITH SMALL BONE INCLUSION



In that short "how to" demonstration around the 1 minute mark, we're told to fill the latrine in after each use. That sort of fixed site would still be there, just like the dinosaur droppings (admittedly now fossil lumps as shown) suggesting that Moses removed all the dung and they took it with them. I heard excavations had gone down to bedrock. Is any of that correct?
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Default Re: Moses Did Not Stop Working for 40 Years Because of Free Mana - 10-22-2022, 03:57 PM

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Originally Posted by MitzaLizalor View Post
I heard excavations had gone down to bedrock. Is any of that correct?
Sister Mitza, there is only one thing we need to know about the liberal archeologists writing up this nonsense that contradicts the Bible. It is their names. They are Israel Finkelstein and Neil Asher Siberman.

We know they are Jews by their names. We know, also, Jews have been lying for 2,000 years. They have denied they killed Jesus.

These two archeologists have been digging in the Siani for a long time and report finding no evidence of the Exodus. Why would we believe them when the Bible tells us exactly what happened and why?


Isaiah 24:1-3 Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty (2)...as the taker of usury, so with the giver of usury to him. (3) The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the LORD hath spoken his word.
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Default Re: Moses Did Not Stop Working for 40 Years Because of Free Mana - 10-22-2022, 04:46 PM

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nonsense that contradicts the Bible.
I had to smile. How would they know where to dig if it wasn't for The Bible?
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Default Re: Moses Did Not Stop Working for 40 Years Because of Free Mana - 10-25-2022, 07:07 PM

God assigned a really big task to Moses. Moses must have spent a lot of time figuring out how to carry out God's directive.

Moses tells us what God ordered in Leviticus 22. God did not, and still does not, want to see the deformed or the disfigured. That includes people with crippled hands and feet, hunchbacks, dwarfs, eye defects, open sores or damaged testicles. There had to be quite a few such ugly people among the four million Jews and several more born during forty years in the desert.

I could not find in the Bible what Moses did with these people. Certainly, they could not stay with those God had chosen to escape. Moses had to get rid of them. My guess is he sent them packing back to Egypt where they could be slaves.

Here is a picture of what God wanted to see:



Isaiah 24:1-3 Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty (2)...as the taker of usury, so with the giver of usury to him. (3) The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the LORD hath spoken his word.
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Default Re: Moses Did Not Stop Working for 40 Years Because of Free Mana - 11-03-2022, 05:18 AM

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Here is a picture of what God wanted to see:

Quite, Mr. Mayor, not an imperfect specimen among them.

Although Jared might be disappointed as the intellectual heir of Donald Trump Sr, to be squeezed in behind some flags at the back. Do they not know he solved the Middle East crisis? You'd think that guy'd be important. Although, Tiffany's blue dress is tough competition to be fair.


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Default Re: Moses Did Not Stop Working for 40 Years Because of Free Mana - 11-03-2022, 02:07 PM

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Quite, Mr. Mayor, not an imperfect specimen among them.
Although Jared might be disappointed as the intellectual heir of Donald Trump Sr, to be squeezed in behind some flags at the back. Do they not know he solved the Middle East crisis? You'd think that guy'd be important. Although, Tiffany's blue dress is tough competition to be fair.
There will be those who notice how stunning Tiffany is in her blue dress. Add to that her law degree. It makes me suspect some sharp elbows will be pushing her to the second row in the future.


Isaiah 24:1-3 Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty (2)...as the taker of usury, so with the giver of usury to him. (3) The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the LORD hath spoken his word.
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Default Re: Moses Did Not Stop Working for 40 Years Because of Free Mana - 11-04-2022, 07:33 AM

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Originally Posted by Johny Joe Hold View Post
Moses had plenty of work to do. Forty years, men would have forgotten how to farm
In forty years most of them would be dead. Variable life expectancy is unlikely in so fertile a region as the Nile delta and disease or accidents (malaria or falling off a horse, say) would average out across an entire population. The Israelites were more robust than the Egyptians as demonstrated throughout Exodus.


Exodus 1:7


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[1]
Menes I reigned for 62 years but could have held one of the Egyptian thrones previously. Not knowing when he was born means estimating a maximum age of 170 years. Probably a bit less, though. [2] Hatshepsut didn't live as long and we have reasonable dates: she made it to 50-ish. [3] Queen Nefertiti lived some 40 years; without any Israelites to look after food production, Egyptian recipes presumably suffered to some extent. [4] King Tut is fairly well known but broke his leg and died around 20 or a few months earlier.


170 + 50 + 40 + 20 = 280
280 ÷ 4 = 70


Psalm 90:10

The Israelites set free had plenty of livestock, some forty million if New Zealand is a fair comparison. Even half that number, combined with everyone leaving Egypt dying before entering The Promised Land, suggests many farmers were aged 30 to 40 at the time —— it took 40 years for them to die off and our average life expectancy gives them 70 to 80 years altogether. With manna and quails laid on, nobody would need to actually feed anything and in particular everybody arriving with the herd after four decades would have no farming experience whatsoever. Moses would have to train them up in a desert which would be extremely demanding and then, of course, he died too.


Deuteronomy 34:7

It's a testament to the reliability of God's word that an eighty year old man (Moses) could embark on such a huge managerial project and despite idolatry, disobedience and general whining bring it to a conclusion (other than everyone dying before they got there) for subsequent generations to take over the recently vacant farmland and prosper.
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Default Re: Moses Did Not Stop Working for 40 Years Because of Free Mana - 11-05-2022, 07:13 AM

I think the point here is that believers need to know that Salvation isn't Free™. There's a cost. And that cost is borne by their elders and betters - management, for example - please explain how to raise and slaughter 40 million sheep without managers. That doesn't even include Original Debt owed by all.


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