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Default 11 Logical Proofs of Muhammad’s Prophethood - 11-01-2022, 06:51 AM

I am a little confused right now after finding a website containing 11 logical proofs of the prophethood of Muhammad. The logic seems irrefutable - potentially devastating to our Christian beliefs.
Quote:
1. Muhammad was unable to read or write.
He remained like that until he died. Therefore, he did not read the holy books previously revealed by Almighty Allah.

2. Miraculous Prophecies
Muhammad prophesied many things that later occurred

3. Miracle of the Qur’an
Muhammad was blessed with the Qur’an, whose Arabic language is the peak of eloquence and clarity.

4. Model Manners
The life of this Noble Prophet presented a perfect example of the life of a person who is upright, merciful, compassionate, truthful, brave, generous, distant from all evil deeds, and ascetic in all worldly matters.

5. Most Lovable Man
The human history has never witnessed a man who has received such love, respect, honor, and obedience in all matters as Prophet Muhammad.

6. Most Influential Man
The history of humanity has never known a biography resembling Muhammad’s.

7. Most Followed Man
There has never been a man on earth whose doings are followed and whose commands are obeyed as Muhammad.

8. Steadfast Followers
From the very beginning of his commission as a prophet, Muhammad was followed by individuals of different races, colors, and languages.

9. True Message
It is beyond the capacity of the human mind alone to come up with teachings similar to those of the Qur’an.

10. Noble Teachings
It is impossible for the human mind to come up with rules and teachings that have the wisdom, morality, and nobleness of the message Muhammad was sent with.

11. Divine Laws
The creedal makeup of the religion that Muhammad was sent with resembles the formation of the heavens and earth. This indicates that the One Who created the heavens and earth is the One Who sent down this great law and upright religion.
My question is how are we going to defend against this spiritual assault, Brothers? It is so convincing I am worried liberals will fall for it instantly under the spell of Sharia Law if they hear it. It took a lot for me as a True Christian to remain firm in Jesus while reading it, but I kept telling myself we also have logical proofs of the miracle of Jesus and the Holy Bible, in addition to 10 Commandments and all the relics, so 11 isn't that impressive. I'm sure no. 7 is false, too - that's President Trump.


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Default Re: 11 Logical Proofs of Muhammad’s Prophethood - 11-01-2022, 10:27 AM

Mohammedanism has never appealed to me, in fact I think it's ridiculous. In its eyes then I am an infidel; I am also a disbeliever, an unbeliever and the vilest of creatures. There are probably other words but I can't be bothered to look them up at the moment. They all amount to the same thing. To be "the vilest of creatures" I'd have some substantial competition. For example there's the paralysis tick: it burrows in your skin sucking blood and causes paralysis. There's the electric eel: it straight out electrocutes you. Tongue-eating lice and eyeball worms are in there along with botfly maggots, brain amoebas and those tiny creatures that give you leprosy.

a botfly
infecting something
a leprosy
(family group)

Do you think it's possible to lie to a botfly or one of its maggots? [maggot shown Left] All these revolting creatures are so far down in the order of things that communication of any sort is virtually impossible. But according to the examples in your list, I am even more reprehensible and even less able to be lied to. I suppose my status ensures that even if I were to be communicated with my understanding would be so limited that discerning truth from lies would be an absolute non-starter. But in any case, speaking falsehood to me is not lying because I'm an infidel. That would apply to any Christian (except maybe one who thought Mohammed was God) so the list in that case becomes very unreliable.
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Default Re: 11 Logical Proofs of Muhammad’s Prophethood - 11-01-2022, 02:12 PM

Isn't it possible those Muhammad fans just copied what is in the Bible about Jesus then crossed out "Jesus" and wrote in "Muhammad"? I'm thinking they saw how successful Jesus was and wanted a Jesus for themselves. They simply made up a person called "Muhammad."

Then they made up a religion called "Islam." Where they made a mistake is in claiming all kinds of good things would happen if people followed Muhammad. Pastor Zeke's Prosperity Gospel proves it is Jesus that brings one riches and the happiness that goes with riches.


Isaiah 24:1-3 Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty (2)...as the taker of usury, so with the giver of usury to him. (3) The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the LORD hath spoken his word.
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Default Re: 11 Logical Proofs of Muhammad’s Prophethood - 11-01-2022, 02:51 PM

Thank you for the helpful link, Brother Dr. Toole, Sir.

I notice that you have abbreviated the 11 logical proofs. This in particular struck me as important:
Quote:
1. Muhammad was unable to read or write.He remained like that until he died. Therefore, he did not read the holy books previously revealed by Almighty Allah.
That particular "logical proof" continues as follows:
Quote:
Allah’s revelation was sent down to Muhammad when he was at the age of 40. This revelation is the Qur’an Muslims have today.
So here is my question, in three parts:

i. Who wrote it all down? We know it can't have been Muhammad; and
ii. How do we know they wrote down precisely what Muhammad claimed to have been told? Scribes are notoriously unreliable, especially when writing back to front; and
iii. The Qur'an is a pretty long book. Did Muhammad have the auditory equivalent of a photographic memory, or did "Allah" dictate it in short, manageable chunks?

It really would have made more sense to "reveal" everything to the scribe, wouldn't it?


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Default Re: 11 Logical Proofs of Muhammad’s Prophethood - 11-01-2022, 10:29 PM

As a Christian, I don't try to "debate" with nonbelievers, be they Muslims, atheists, or what have you. To debate them would be the legitimize their false beliefs. I didn't even read the so-called "proofs" of the goat-f*cker Muhammad because I don't care. JESUS is my Savior. If the Muslims ask, that's what I'll tell them. 2 Timothy 3:16 - All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. Muhammad was a pedophile terrorist, I don't give a rat's ass what his deluded followers think about him, they're wrong and they're going to burn in Hell unless they accept Christ.


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Default Re: 11 Logical Proofs of Muhammad’s Prophethood - 11-02-2022, 12:52 AM

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Originally Posted by Dennis Lukes View Post
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.
How often have we heard that if all Scripture is Divinely inspired and because (say) the Vedic hymns are some sort of scripture therefore Hinduism is an inspired belief system?

Oh! No, I just looked them up, it gets worse, although "hymns" apparently they only have 4 notes. For instance C, Csharp, DĽtone-flat and Esharp. That would account for the atrocious music in Indian restaurants. What assurance to we have that no foreign eateries will be granted planning approval locally?
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Default Re: 11 Logical Proofs of Muhammad’s Prophethood - 11-02-2022, 01:19 AM

Well the Vedic hymns aren't included in the King James Bible. Therefore they aren't scripture. Their content comes from demons like Ganesh and Shiva who came up from Hell to lead the Indians into paganism and poison their hearts against the coming of Christ. All Hindu texts should be burned because they're evil and destroy souls.

And I think it's safe to assume Freehold residents are safe from ethnic restaurants with Mayor Hold at the helm. As for the rest of us living in the outside world, we'll just have to pray for the strength to endure the sight of Mexican restaurants and Chinese buffets.


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Default Re: 11 Logical Proofs of Muhammad’s Prophethood - 11-02-2022, 02:17 AM

But when The Timothies were written, during Paul's lifetime, were there even any Gospels? He was writing to encourage new believers and referred to material no longer existing.
II Timothy 3:8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
Jannes and Jambres are used as an example of what not to do by way of correction and instruction in righteousness. Random suggestions regarding their identity or what it was they did are put up but are utterly unable to be verified. Are these Scripture? We know that Joshua followed Moses and later there was a king, King Saul, after whom Paul was named. The king was severely chopped and got an Amalekite to run him through (to finish him off) after which David instructed the Amalekite to be chopped up too, even though he was doing what King Saul asked. As a result, David got someone to teach the Jews to use bows & arrows.
II Samuel 1:15-20 And David called one of the young men, and said, Go near, and fall upon [the Amalakite.] And he smote [the Amalakite] that he died. And David said unto him, Thy blood be upon thy head; for thy mouth hath testified against thee, saying, I have slain the LORD'S anointed. And David lamented with this lamentation over Saul and over Jonathan his son: (Also he bade them teach the children of Judah the use of the bow: behold, it is written in the book of Jasher.) The beauty of Israel is slain upon thy high places: how are the mighty fallen! Tell it not in Gath, publish it not in the streets of Askelon; lest the daughters of the Philistines rejoice, lest the daughters of the uncircumcised triumph.
Is it? I've never seen a book of Jasher! And again, no shortage of crackpots suggesting who Jasher was and what was in his book. It was good enough for Samuel and Paul explains that Scripture (in this case cited by Samuel but lost to us) is good enough for us too. Was Jasher an alien? Is his book the Vedic hymns? These sorts of questions get thrown at me when witnessing to heathens —— I tend to avoid pagans and savages —— and sometimes it's difficult to answer them.

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Default Re: 11 Logical Proofs of Muhammad’s Prophethood - 11-03-2022, 02:11 AM

According to the Koran, Mohammed tried to move a mountain, but failed. On the other hand, in Mark 11:23, Jesus tells us:

For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.

At Landover Baptist Church, we have moved so many mountains into the sea that the US Coast Guard asked us to stop because we were creating hazards to navigation.

What more proof does anyone need that Christianity is true and Mohammedianism is false?


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Default Re: 11 Logical Proofs of Muhammad’s Prophethood - 11-03-2022, 06:38 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johny Joe Hold View Post
Isn't it possible those Muhammad fans just copied what is in the Bible about Jesus then crossed out "Jesus" and wrote in "Muhammad"?
Almost certainly that's what they thought they were doing. But thinking one is doing something is not the same as the thing one is thinking being the thing one actually does. For example, didn't they think Jesus was Miriam's son? She was Aaron's sister several thousand years before Mohammed pretended he understood what someone (probably his wife) had mumbled about events leading up to the plagues of Egypt.


Quote:
Originally Posted by WWJDnow View Post
that Christianity is true and Mohammedianism is false?
Maybe it's like popes: there's alway a pope but it's not always the same person playing the part. Or more accurately possessed by a demon pretending to be the person pretending to be the pope. Currently it's this Frank buzzard. Does the human persona still exist? Who knows. Then we get to (in no particular order) Joseph Smith, L. Ron Hubbard, The Báb, Ignaz Paul Vitalis Troxler, Ellen White, The Ahmadiyya, Madame Blavatsky, Charles Taze Russell, all demon possessed —— very obviously in most cases —— and all spouting ignorance as if they'd actually read The Bible when clearly they have not.

Now by all means they can have any revelation they like from any source they care to imagine and pronounce their new idea from the rooftops for all I care. BUT when it blatantly disagrees with and contradicts what God has already revealed, how can it have anything to do with God? Perhaps I'll be reprimanded for this but maybe God forgot something? Was there a 614th Commandment He needed to include but hadn't told Moses? And maybe when Mohammed or The Báb turned up, God thought to Himself "Oh yes - that's right - silly me - say 'When television turns up, don't buy one.'" He hadn't said anything about TV before so no contradiction there and He isn't saying His name is Abraxas needing to be represented by this idol [LEFT] and adored using toad-venom.

But what we get EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. is precisely the latter. Not necessarily that He's really Abraxas but precisely contradicting something He said before. Whoever makes the claim can hardly be aware of Biblical precedent or, if they are, aware of it in such minute detail century upon century declaring this new thing (whatever it is) to deny God at the most granular level. As I said before, fine! Have your stupid idea! Declare its origin to be whatever you dream up! But to say it's the ongoing (or final) revelation from God? That can only be deception and 1 logical proof of the proclaimer's non-prophethood. And once that's been determined 10 more are surplus to req.
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Default Re: 11 Logical Proofs of Muhammad’s Prophethood - 11-03-2022, 07:50 AM

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Originally Posted by MitzaLizalor View Post
But thinking one is doing something is not the same as the thing one is thinking being the thing one actually does.
Your clarity is alarming, Sister. Nor, should I mention, the thing one is doing being thinking.

Quote:
... That can only be deception and 1 logical proof of the proclaimer's non-prophethood. And once that's been determined 10 more are surplus to req.
Quite Sister, I couldn't agree more. Unfortunately there is more. By the atheists, no doubt aided by the camel enthusiasts.

The esteemed master of logic Bertrand Russell concluded that Jesus was "not so wise as some other people have been, and He was certainly not superlatively wise", based on parts of the gospel where Jesus could be interpreted as saying that his second coming will occur in the lifetime of some of his listeners (Luke 9:27). You can't argue with that, because Bertrand is dead.

Other veritable authorities have questioned Jesus' sanity by claiming he was insane for believing he was God and/or the messiah. Some say Jesus suffered from religious delusions and paranoia. I know - it's hard to believe!

I think what takes it over the edge for me is hearing the Christ-killers...
Quote:
...entirely reject the idea of Jesus being a god, a person of a Trinity, or a mediator to God who has a special relationship with Him that somehow makes Jesus "divine". Moreover, it is Avodah Zarah ("foreign worship", which means idolatry) to regard or worship a human being as God; in Judaism, as well as in Islam, God is only One, totally transcendent, and cannot be human.


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Default Re: 11 Logical Proofs of Muhammad’s Prophethood - 11-03-2022, 02:23 PM

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Originally Posted by Dr. Anthony J. Toole View Post
Unfortunately there is more
Quote:

Nietzsche considered Jesus'
teachings to be "unnatural"
The problem is that Jesus was not addressing philosophers but normal people. Perhaps I'd slightly prefer Schopenhauer over Nietzsche but essentially, in its own terms, somewhere between Thales/Pythagoras and Euclid/Archimedes the need for philosophy ceased to exist. In that context, whether denizens of Mohammed are capable of philosophy (I'd be arguing that they're not) becomes irrelevant. And if philosophy is irrelevant, the proofs are irrelevant too.
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Default Re: 11 Logical Proofs of Muhammad’s Prophethood - 11-09-2022, 05:23 AM

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Originally Posted by MitzaLizalor View Post
In that context, whether denizens of Mohammed are capable of philosophy (I'd be arguing that they're not) becomes irrelevant.
Thank you for helping argue against the points. I am still struggling to find a Chink in the armor of the 11 logical pillars which are iron-clad. It turns out there are even more pillars! I'm not sure Biblical scholars have enough intellectual ammunition to refute these, let alone brainless atheists.

The 7 Pillars of Iman (Faith)
  • Belief in Allah.
  • Belief in His Prophets.
  • Belief in His Books.
  • Belief in His Angels.
  • Belief in the Unseen.
  • Belief in the Resurrection.
  • Belief in the Qadar (Divine Decree)
Pillars of Sunni Islam
  • 1st Pillar: Shahada (Declaration of Faith): The belief that "There is no god but God, and Muhammad is the Messenger of God".
  • 2nd Pillar: Salah (Prayer): Muslims pray facing Mecca five times a day: at dawn, noon, mid-afternoon, sunset, and after dark.
  • 3rd Pillar: Zakat (Almsgiving): Muslims donate a fixed portion of their income to community members in need.
  • 4th Pillar: Sawm (Fasting): During the ninth month of the Islamic calendar, all healthy adult Muslims are required to abstain from food and drink.
  • 5th Pillar: Hajj (Pilgrimage): Every Muslim whose health and finances permit it must make at least one visit to the holy city of Mecca.
If only I could figure out what the point of doing all this stuff is. Yes, I understand the value of ritual busywork to make one's superiors look good, but nobody has actually explained this is the purpose here. Why, for example, pray 5 times a day. Why not 6? It's almost random.


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Bible Re: 11 Logical Proofs of Muhammad’s Prophethood - 11-09-2022, 06:50 AM

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Originally Posted by Dr. Anthony J. Toole View Post
Why, for example, pray 5 times a day. Why not 6? It's almost random.
AND... herein lies the proof for the veracity of the Bible and the fallacious nature of the Islamistic books! Not, not 5, nor 6 times a day BUT:

1 Thessalonians 5:17
Pray without ceasing.

Romans 1:9
For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;

2 Timothy 1:3
I thank God, whom I serve from my forefathers with pure conscience, that without ceasing I have remembrance of thee in my prayers night and day;

Acts 12:5
Peter therefore was kept in prison: but prayer was made without ceasing of the church unto God for him.

As we can see, Islamism has failed to realize this even though it is in the BIBLE!

Yours in Christ,

Elmer


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Default Re: 11 Logical Proofs of Muhammad’s Prophethood - 11-09-2022, 09:56 PM

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Originally Posted by Elmer G. White View Post
As we can see, Islamism has failed to realize this even though it is in the BIBLE!
Dr. Elmer, it is a relief to be amongst scholars of such magnitude. Of course, since the Koran is not in the Bible it is not God's inerrant word. Thank you for the reminder to be strong in faith. Some days I need to shut my mouth, pray harder and hang on tight to the pillar of Christ and His parables. And all the miracles, too.


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Default Re: 11 Logical Proofs of Muhammad’s Prophethood - 11-10-2022, 04:27 AM

Quote:
[7 Pillars]
  1. Belief in Allah.
  2. Belief in His Prophets.
  3. Belief in His Books.
  4. Belief in His Angels.
  5. Belief in the Unseen.
  6. Belief in the Resurrection.
  7. Belief in the Qadar
[5 Pillars]
  1. Shahada
  2. Salah
  3. Zakat
  4. Sawm
  5. Hajj
For each and every one of those mumbojumbos, the addition of a single word, NOT, is sufficient to explain my position. That's all I need to be off pillars for life. The 6th of the 7 pillars however bears closer examination. Resurrection is explained by Jesus (for example resurrected Christians will not have a sexual identity) but what sorts of ideas were cooked up by this maniac? Hypersexuality, and what masquerades as "polyamory" in the savage here & now, is so diametrically opposed to anything Jesus taught as to make me wonder: are there degrees of diametric opposition?

Mohammed's garbled nonsense (he'd heard someone say something sometime somewhere there was a strong wind blowing and he got hit on the head with a brick) relating to resurrection gives the lie to the whole shebang.

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Default Re: 11 Logical Proofs of Muhammad’s Prophethood - 11-10-2022, 04:56 AM

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Originally Posted by MitzaLizalor View Post
...That's all I need to be off pillars for life...
Not joining the Stoics, either, then?


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Default Re: 11 Logical Proofs of Muhammad’s Prophethood - 12-30-2022, 11:07 AM

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Originally Posted by Didymus Much View Post
Not joining the Stoics, either, then?
Islam proposes all sorts of weirdness and when eventually its tenets were written down there were so many contradictions that the principle of abrogation had to be contrived. Perhaps you're suggesting that writing attributed to "Paul" was an aggregation of various traditions drawing on demoniacs like Cleanthes and comprising a branch of Greek literature?

For that to be true, the Christian message would need to begin in the 3rd century BC and explore new avenues suggested by there being a single God imported from a nearby culture but retaining Greek ideas in fact being predominantly Greek theology developing Greek ideas of the spiritual world. That would mean rejecting the majority of Judaism except for the One God element.

After a while a vaguely coherent corpus if ideas emerged and could be assembled in the form of letters. Extraneous premises could be argued against as vestiges of the increasingly irrelevant temples in a world where Euclid, Archimedes and Heron were winning the day. For example coin-operated vending machines and water clocks function whether you "worship" Aphrodite or Apollo or nothing. A single God with a single temple (and later a single pontiff) would concentrate resources, this model suggests.

But that contradicts The Bible. It also contradicts then distant future ideas that would crush Arabic culture, grinding it down to what we see today apart from a few banana sultanates ruling the roost like cock sparrows. Perhaps you are an Epicurean after all?
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