[Lycia The Repentant]

Then please explain to me why these little massless packets of energy can supposedly be trapped by the mass of a black hole. If they have no mass then surely the gravity wouldn't be affecting them.

[AnAuthenticAtheist]

Ahhhhhhhhh very good question! I'm so excited to answer this one.

Gravity effects EVERYTHING, not just things with mass, but everything.

One of the ways Einstein's theory of general relativity was verified was by what is called "gravitational lensing".

When light travels near an object, such as a planet or black hole, with a huge gravitational pull, the path of the light is bent towards the object. The object will pull the photon away from it's normal path and towards the object, thus resulting in a curved path.

Black holes have an incredible gravitational force coming from them. Meaning, they bend space a large amount, and since all objects/matter/energy travel through the fabric of space they are subject to gravity.

If a photon gets too close to a black hole, the gravity of the black hole will start pulling it closer. Think of the black hole as an infinitely deep funnel. The photon will get pulled into the black hole by it's gravitational field and begin it's spiral into the black hole.

Gravity effects everything.

Are you familiar with the experiment where you lay different sized balls on a bed sheet and their masses curve the sheet? The sheet is the fabric of space, and since all objects travel through space, whether they have mass or not, they are subject to travel with the "terrain" of space.

[Ninjaseverywhere]

Originally Posted by Lycia The Repentant

Then please explain to me why these little massless packets of energy can supposedly be trapped by the mass of a black hole. If they have no mass then surely the gravity wouldn't be affecting them.

The last number I saw was that a photon, if it has any mass at all, must be less than 4 x 10^-48 grams. For comparison, the electron has a mass of 9 x 10^-28 grams. It isn't proven they have no mass...just that the mass they have if any must be a certain number. Under relativity though stars bend the surrounding space time which curves light and in a black hole it curves it to the point of collapsing into the black hole. This mean either relativity is right or a photon has the mass less than 4 x 10^-48 grams. Indeed science can't answer everything YET but in the last 50-60 years we have accomplished so much. Moving forward with humanity is great isn't it?

[Brother Harold Porter]

Originally Posted by AnAuthenticAtheist

Gravity effects EVERYTHING, not just things with mass, but everything.

If this were true nothing could be lighter than air and I have personally seen hot air and helium balloons rise, completely unrestrained by "gravity".

Try again.

One of the ways Einstein's theory of general relativity was verified was by what is called "gravitational lensing".

When light travels near an object, such as a planet or black hole, with a huge gravitational pull, the path of the light is bent towards the object. The object will pull the photon away from it's normal path and towards the object, thus resulting in a curved path.

Black holes have an incredible gravitational force coming from them. Meaning, they bend space a large amount, and since all objects/matter/energy travel through the fabric of space they are subject to gravity.

If a photon gets too close to a black hole, the gravity of the black hole will start pulling it closer. Think of the black hole as an infinitely deep funnel. The photon will get pulled into the black hole by it's gravitational field and begin it's spiral into the black hole.

Gravity effects everything.

Are you familiar with the experiment where you lay different sized balls on a bed sheet and their masses curve the sheet? The sheet is the fabric of space, and since all objects travel through space, whether they have mass or not, they are subject to travel with the "terrain" of space.

Sounds like conjecture and wishful thinking. Do you have any pictures of these "photons"?

[James Hutchins]

Originally Posted by AnAuthenticAtheist

"So light is massless? It contans no matter? Interesting What is light?"

Correct, visible light is a form of electromagnetic radiation.

I guss the part that confuses me (I am just a simple country boy after all) is if light is pure energy, then how can photons 'push' things. I have a few childs toys at the Hutchins home, a 'Radiometer'.

"According to you, only really really powerful light can travel millions and millions of light years?" Correct! You are on a roll!

"So the light from my flashlight runs out of steam and simply falls on the ground?"

I like the way you put this one, it doesn't "simply fall on the ground" though.

Since light does not have mass, it has energy. The energy simply dissipates or runs out, and then it is gone.
Think of it as gas in your vehicle, the gas is energy for your car, eventually you will run out. The gas didn't just simply fall on the ground though, it changed forms. It is ignited, which moves a piston and is turned into mechanical energy.

This is what light does, as it hits obstacles such as spacedust or anything else with matter, it changes forms. It can change into heat or other types of energy such as mechanical energy.

So only the light from flashlights dissapate, the light from stars, which are merely little diamonds in the sky, reflecting sunlinght, can last forever. Interesting.

[Ninjaseverywhere]

Originally Posted by Brother Harold Porter

If this were true nothing could be lighter than air and I have personally seen hot air and helium balloons rise, completely unrestrained by "gravity".

Try again.



Sounds like conjecture and wishful thinking. Do you have any pictures of these "photons"?

The balloon is affected by gravity it's just less dense than the atmosphere which makes it float the same way wood floats on water.

Religion sounds like conjecture and wishful thinking. Do you have any pictures of this "God" or "Heaven"?

[Cranky Old Man]

Originally Posted by AnAuthenticAtheist

Gravity effects EVERYTHING, not just things with mass, but everything.

So it also affects things that have no weight like electromagnetic fields? Weird, as not even atheists scientists seem to think that.

Originally Posted by Ninjaseverywhere

The last number I saw was that a photon, if it has any mass at all, must be less than 4 x 10^-48 grams.

And how does one determine that? I cannot imagine a weighing scale being that accurate.

[Ninjaseverywhere]

Originally Posted by James Hutchins

I guss the part that confuses me (I am just a simple country boy after all) is if light is pure energy, then how can photons 'push' things. I have a few childs toys at the Hutchins home, a 'Radiometer'.

So only the light from flashlights dissapate, the light from stars, which are merely little diamonds in the sky, reflecting sunlinght, can last forever. Interesting.

Stars light doesn't go forever or else eventually every star in the universe would be visible to us. Only stars close enough for their light to reach us will ever be seen much like if I shine a flashlight it is strong enough for you to see from a few yards away but it becomes invisible at greater distances. Same with stars only their light is stronger therefore visible from farther away from a flashlight.

[AnAuthenticAtheist]

"I guss the part that confuses me (I am just a simple country boy after all) is if light is pure energy, then how can photons 'push' things. I have a few childs toys at the Hutchins home, a 'Radiometer'."

Photons still have momentum, when a photon strikes a surface, it may be absorbed or reflected. In either case, momentum is transferred from the photon to the object whose surface is struck. In this way, a force is exerted on the struck object.

The equation for the momentum of a photon is p= E/c, where c is the speed of light, p is the momentum, and E the energy of the photon.

The equation for the momentum of a particle with mass is p=mv, where p is momentum, m is mass, and v is the velocity of the particle.


"So only the light from flashlights dissapate, the light from stars, which are merely little diamonds in the sky, reflecting sunlinght, can last forever. Interesting"

Close, the light from the stars does not last forever. The light they emit is just brighter at the source and thus will travel farther before it dissipates.

[Cranky Old Man]

Originally Posted by AnAuthenticAtheist

The equation for the momentum of a photon is p= E/c, where c is the speed of light, p is the momentum, and E the energy of the photon.

Don't talk nonsense. Every little child knows the momentum of a photon depends only on its frequency. p = ħk where k is the wave vector (where the wave number k = |k| = 2π/λ) and ħ = h/2π is the reduced Planck constant.

[AnAuthenticAtheist]

Originally Posted by Cranky Old Man

Don't talk nonsense. Every little child knows the momentum of a photon depends only on its frequency. p = ħk where k is the wave vector (where the wave number k = |k| = 2π/λ) and ħ = h/2π is the reduced Planck constant.

Thank you, kind sir!

Through equivalence, momentum can be expressed in many ways.

p = mv = mc = ħk = mcc/c = E/c = hf/c = hc/cw = h/w

Did I miss something? I feel... awkward...

[James Hutchins]

I see, so something which is energy, has no mass, has momentum. If it has momentum, it can strike things with force. So you are saying light has mass?

[Cranky Old Man]

Originally Posted by AnAuthenticAtheist

Thank you, kind sir!

You're welcome.

Through equivalence, momentum can be expressed in many ways. p = mv = mc = ħk = mcc/c = E/c = hf/c = hc/cw = h/w. Did I miss something? I feel... awkward...

Yes, you missed the point completely. It's irrelevant how many ways you can come up with to express the momentum of a photon. All that matters is how you determine the momentum of a photon. And as I already explained to you, one does that with the frequency, which is the only variable relevant for determining the momentum that a photon has. I could have lived with you using the wavelenght instead of the frequency to determine the momentum, but using the energy to determine the momentum is rubbish. What you did is equivalent to determining the speed of a car by converting yards per second to miles per hour.

Now please stop wasting time on physics, as you clearly have no idea what you are talking about, and start doing some serious Bible study!

[AnAuthenticAtheist]

"What you did is equivalent to determining the speed of a car by converting yards per second to miles per hour."

I see, It's easier on my eyes for me that way since I'm used to reading my speedometer in mi/hr, I apologize.

Also, the equation p=E/c is relevant to me, since some homework problems require it to get the needed answer based on the givens.

[Cranky Old Man]

Originally Posted by AnAuthenticAtheist

Also, the equation p=E/c is relevant to me, since some homework problems require it to get the needed answer based on the givens.

You need a new teacher, your current one is an idiot. Feel free to tell him that I said so.

[AnAuthenticAtheist]

Wow, we agree on something. I think despite our "differences" that you and I could get along just fine. haha

[barton]

Originally Posted by PRS1988

So there is solid evidence that the earth is well over 6,000 years old. A bit of topic but if the earth is over 6,000 years old as it is a proven fact then as your date for the earth's age in wrong then it can be as old as some of these people are saying.

Since when does so-called "solid evidence" equate with "proven fact"?

Science doesn't prove anything. It just builds theories upon theories, a continual work in progress that is subject to being disproved at any point. The stated ideals of scientists require objectivity... chips falling where they may and all that. However, scientists are among the worst hypocrites and blasphemers... they cling to hopeless theories out of pride and avarice, despite evidence that clearly contradicts. The whole rotten scientific community is rife with intellectual dishonesty. And these are the people that we should listen to over God?

The Bible is not a theory, though. It is the written word of God as received by men, inspired and filled with His holy Spirit. Christians are not looking to see how the Bible stands up to each so-called scientific discovery or advancement as it occurs. Christians do not need to twist and dilute His Word to make it accommodate whatever secular theories are currently in vogue. We already know that the Bible is literally true!

The world would be a better place if scientists first tested their theories against the Bible! Of course, there's little chance of that given their sinful, prideful nature and their obvious hatred of God. In the coming reign of Christ, after the Rapture and after the Tribulation, I am sure that the world will finally experience true Godly science.

[WWJDnow]

Originally Posted by Foul Nazi Pig

Then, how can it be reflected by a mirror? After light hits a mirror, it bounces off. Light bouncing off of objects is what allows you to see. As light ricochets off an object, it will enter the pupil of your eye where it will then make contact with your retina. This causes your retina to generate an electrical current which is sent via the optical nerve to the brain.

So you're saying that light bounces off everything except retinas?

The brain then converts this electrical signal to an image.

What is that image made of?

The same exact process allows a camera to work.

So light bounces off everything except retinas and cameras, then?

Light is diffuse energy. Therefore, it won't put holes in you.

This doesn't look very diffuse to me:

[WWJDnow]

Originally Posted by AnAuthenticAtheist

Thank you, kind sir!

Through equivalence, momentum can be expressed in many ways.

p = mv = mc = ħk = mcc/c = E/c = hf/c = hc/cw = h/w

Did I miss something? I feel... awkward...

You left out p = 1/((1-(v/c)^2)^1/2). Not that I believe anything Einstein had to say. After all, the Bible tells us that Jews are all liars:

For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision: Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake. Titus 1:10-11

[Aristotle]

Originally Posted by AnAuthenticAtheist

"Really...

Could you please explain to me what a photon is?"

Sure, think of it as a little packet of energy that gives off radiation in the form of visible light.

So you are saying that these 'light particles' give off light? Cannot you see this is circular reasoning?