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Sinner Hell Is NOT Eternal Separation from God! - 01-21-2017, 04:47 AM


Is hell really eternal separation from God?


There's a composite quote from C.S. Lewis' The Problem of Pain and The Great Divorce that's quite popular among fluffy-bunny Christians.

Quote:
In the long run the answer to all those who object to the doctrine of hell is itself a question: “What are you asking God to do?” . . . To leave them alone? Alas, I am afraid that is what he does . . . . There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, in the end, 'Thy will be done.'
According to C.S. Lewis, hell is eternal separation from God. Those who share this view will often quote passages that speak of the damned being "cast out into outer darkness" (Mt 8:12; 22:13; 25:30; cf. Rev 22:14-15) or being commanded to depart from the presence of our omnipresent God (Mt 7:23; 25:41; Lk 13:27; cf. Ps 139:7-10). They will likely quote 2 Thessalonians 1:9 – "[They] shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power . . . " Yet they will completely ignore Revelation 14:10 – "The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb . . . ." According to the people at GotQuestions.org, "These two verses are by far the most confusing on this topic because of their apparent contradiction." Indeed, either these passages are contradictory – which we know is not possible – or there is some sense in which God is present in hell.

How can God be both present and not present in hell? Easy. God can dwell exclusively in heaven (Ps 115:3; 123:1; Eccl 5:2; Is 63:15) and exclusively in Zion (Ps 9:11; 76:2; Joel 3:17, 21) simultaneously. Jesus was in heaven even while he was on earth talking to Nicodemus: "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven" (Jn 3:13). God is everywhere and yet He can leave people (1 Sam 16:14). God can be both present and absent wherever He wants, whenever He wants. It's not a biggie. And God is most certainly present in hell: "Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there. If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea; even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me" (Ps 139:7-10). Some would argue the translators of the KJV erred in rendering sheol as hell. But even if that's so, the meaning of the passage remains unchanged: there's nowhere you can go to get away from God. Not even hell. I think the Westminster Larger Catechism describes hell very precisely. It's not separation from God; it's separation from His comforting presence.

Quote:
Q. 29. What are the punishments of sin in the world to come?

A.
The punishments of sin in the world to come, are everlasting separation from the comfortable presence of God, and most grievous torments in soul and body, without intermission, in hell-fire forever.

(Emphasis mine)
God is intimately involved with the creation and continuation of hell. He created hell for the devil and his angels (Mt 25:41), and He created the wicked for hell (Prov 16:4; Jude 1:4; Rom 9:22-23). Jesus will sustain the damned and their place of torment – as He does all of His creation – through the power of His Word (Heb 1:3). Hell is a place of fire (Rev 20:14-15). There are many examples throughout the Bible where fire is a physical manifestation of God's presence. God appeared to Moses in the burning bush (Ex 3:2). He led the Israelites through the wilderness with a pillar of fire (Ex 13:21). The Holy Spirit descended upon the Apostles at Pentecost as tongues of fire (Acts 2:3). The author of Hebrews went as far as to say, "For our God is a consuming fire" (Heb 12:29). And just as God is everlasting (Ps 90:2), so are the fires of hell (Mt 18:8; 25:41).

So what will God be doing in hell? Punishing the wicked, of course! "Upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup" (Ps 11:6). "But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation [. . .] shall devour the adversaries . . . For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." (Heb 10:27, 30-31). The Lord will personally repay the wicked for all their evil deeds with His own hands.

Thanks to Jesus' temporary sacrifice on the cross, this is a side of God that the Christian will never have to experience. We'll get to see God punishing our unbelieving family members and acquaintances, of course (Rev 14:10), but we'll never have to experience it. We'll just have to keep reminding ourselves that God's raining down destruction on someone with one hand while sustaining their being with the other, for all eternity, is not cruel.

Quote:
No matter how we analyze the concept of hell it often sounds to us as a place of cruel and unusual punishment. If, however, we can take any comfort in the concept of hell, we can take it in the full assurance that there will be no cruelty there. It is impossible for God to be cruel. Cruelty involves inflicting a punishment that is more severe or harsh than the crime. Cruelty in this sense is unjust. God is incapable of inflicting an unjust punishment. The Judge of all the earth will surely do what is right. No innocent person will ever suffer at His hand.

— R. C. Sproul
The real problem with Lewis' view on hell is why would God just give the wicked what they want? If there was no God in hell, it would be an atheist utopia, a place of sin and sodomy without consequences. According to the Bible, far from giving the damned what they want and leaving them alone, God will give them what they least want – His company.

Quote:
A breath of relief is usually heard when someone declares, “Hell is a symbol for separation from God.” To be separated from God for eternity is no great threat to the impenitent person. The ungodly want nothing more than to be separated from God. Their problem in hell will not be separation from God, it will be the presence of God that will torment them. In hell, God will be present in the fullness of His divine wrath. He will be there to exercise His just punishment of the damned. They will know Him as an all-consuming fire.

— R. C. Sproul
Those who want to learn more about hell might like this sermon by Steven Anderson or Future Punishment Eternal by Robert Murray M'Cheyne (it's interesting to note that many online versions omit the fifth point of his original sermon: "hell is closed in and surrounded by the attributes of God").



Mt 21:42, 44 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes . . . ? And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

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Sinner Re: Hell Is NOT Eternal Separation from God! - 01-22-2017, 12:02 AM

good to know, with judgement day coming up I don't think I will be one of the lucky 144,000 and I don't want to be separated from Jesus.
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Default Re: Hell Is NOT Eternal Separation from God! - 01-22-2017, 10:24 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by unsavedlama View Post
good to know, with judgement day coming up I don't think I will be one of the lucky 144,000 and I don't want to be separated from Jesus.
The 144,000 are Jewish.
REVELATION précis . KJV . look up
Chapter 7 - preamble
I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

. . . .4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: 144,000 of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
5 Juda 12,000
Reuben 12,000
Gad 12,000 running total 36,000
6 Aser 12,000
Nepthalim 12,000
Manasses 12,000 running total 72,000
7 Simeon 12,000
Levi 12,000
Issachar 12,000 running total 108,000
8 Zabulon 12,000
Joseph 12,000
Benjamin 12,000 running total 144,000

This is not the whole population of redeemed persons. Reading on we come to:

REVELATION 7 . KJV . look up
9-10
After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

So unless you're Jewish AND a Christian AND a virgin AND male you won't make the 144,000.
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Sinner Re: Hell Is NOT Eternal Separation from God! - 04-05-2018, 10:30 PM

I am glad I am not going there.

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. (John 10:27-29)

Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ. (Philippians 1:6)


However, sadly the majority of this sick world is unsaved.

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Last edited by Mary Etheldreda; 04-06-2018 at 01:11 AM. Reason: mind your manners
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Default Re: Hell Is NOT Eternal Separation from God! - 04-06-2018, 01:22 AM

Remember, the Great White Throne Judgement (Revelation 20:11-15) is only for unbelievers. If you're there, all hope is gone BEFORE the judgement is over. Not rightly dividing the word of truth is a sin. Sister MitzaLizalor luckily does not commit that serious sin.

Another deception is the doctrine of annihilationsm. Those sugar coated Christians use Matthew 10:28:
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.


If you look in the Greek, you'll find out that "destroy" means "to be delivered to eternal misery".


Hell is eternal torment, but not seperation from God!


God's wrath is kindled on the lost men. If you're lost get saved today!
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