[James Hutchins]

Originally Posted by LordOfTheDonuts

hmm, they 'pretend' to be christian, so they tattoo biblical text on theirselves?.. they sure wouldn't do it for being cool if goths and punks are satanists and godhaters like all of you think..

I play in several bands, with money we earn we help our church community, so we're evil and stuff?..
you guys should accept that different cultures exist and it's their will to be that way, if you judge them you take the role of god on yourself -wich was what i believe one of the reasons why god banned lucifer to hell-, and i saw even reactions of stoning them?.. who do you think you are to take a life?.. it's not our decision to tell who lives and who dies..

And about the music thing, I don't like marilyn manson at all.. There's also heavy metal and punk that isn't satanic or anti-god, but there are bands anti-politics and stuff.. but hey, everyone can have his opinion, and this list is one and obvious there are -in my eyes, prejudging- followers.. But count me out for following this list

You cannot 'buy off' God at a Christian Church like you think you are doing at the catlick Church.

[LordOfTheDonuts]

Originally Posted by Ezekiel Bathfire

The subjunctive is not required - the list is absolute This could mean anything from, "I design mud-huts" to "I have a qualification in drawing and sometimes do pictures of houses" Most unfortunate, we know of no True Christian with an IQ of less than 138 I agree they are intellectually challenging but your lack of IQ probably accounts for your inability to understand them - accept it, this is the way God made you. No catch - such "bands" are often composed of those who pretend to be Christian but really worship Mammon. They do this by appealling to the less intelligent and gullible.

1 I don't design mud-huts, but worked on big public buildings
2 It was an answer to 'gothics arent intelligent', and according to this list I am gothic, and compared to the average it would be intelligent
3 If I have a lack of IQ than lots of architects and other big careers would be lack of IQ, so you can't convince me
4 I play in 3 bands supporting church wich are heavy metal, punk and an acoustic duo, so geuss what: it's a christian church..

Any more comments? If I read most of the comments I'm seeing no christians, but racists using religion to hide behind

[LordOfTheDonuts]

Originally Posted by James Hutchins

You cannot 'buy off' God at a Christian Church like you think you are doing at the catlick Church.

Dude, I'm not 'buying off'.. I'm supporting the church because I know a lot of old people that can't go to church elsewhere, I'm just helping out, not trying to get a ticket to heaven..

The decision is up to God, not to me, not to you, and not to anyone on this world..

[James Hutchins]

Originally Posted by LordOfTheDonuts

Dude, I'm not 'buying off'.. I'm supporting the church because I know a lot of old people that can't go to church elsewhere, I'm just helping out, not trying to get a ticket to heaven..

The decision is up to God, not to me, not to you, and not to anyone on this world..

Look friend, if paying the Church makes you feel less guilty for what you are doing and you can live with that, OK, but do not try to convince others of your wacked out reasoning.

You mare making this decision, God has his notes, he'll check them twice at the gates.

[LordOfTheDonuts]

Originally Posted by James Hutchins

Look friend, if paying the Church makes you feel less guilty for what you are doing and you can live with that, OK, but do not try to convince others of your wacked out reasoning.

You mare making this decision, God has his notes, he'll check them twice at the gates.

Clearly you have a wrong image of what I'm doing, but please understand I'm not trying to convince anyone, I'm just trying to explain my vision on this, and live my life the fullest I can.. I'm not living in a huge house like my colleages but in a small rental home, the rest of what I earn is donated to the church, because the new church finally has been started building since it was burned down.

I respect everyone who's a true believer and try to understand their opinions, the least the others could do is try do do the same, but if I take hits for being myself I'll gladly turn the other cheek

[Nobar King]

Originally Posted by LordOfTheDonuts

if I take hits for being myself I'll gladly turn the other cheek

This isn't some kind of Sado pick-up bar.

[James Hutchins]

Originally Posted by LordOfTheDonuts

Clearly you have a wrong image of what I'm doing, but please understand I'm not trying to convince anyone, I'm just trying to explain my vision on this, and live my life the fullest I can.. I'm not living in a huge house like my colleages but in a small rental home, the rest of what I earn is donated to the church, because the new church finally has been started building since it was burned down.

I respect everyone who's a true believer and try to understand their opinions, the least the others could do is try do do the same, but if I take hits for being myself I'll gladly turn the other cheek

Son, on the surface, what you are doing appears mighty commendable. How you are doing it is questionable.

I'll give you a hypothetical. It is ridiculous, but just read it and think about it.
A man is hired to kill Christian parents , so the evil children can get their inheritance. Upon receiving the inheritance, the hit man gives it to the Church. Is it wrong for the murders to of be done?
I know that was a silly example and and an extreme.

[LordOfTheDonuts]

Originally Posted by Nobar King

This isn't some kind of Sado pick-up bar.

hum.. That wasn't my meaning for anyone to understand it like that:d, I'm trying to say that if I'm wrong in your eyes, I won't hold a grudge against you, but I'll take the blame for what you consider I was wrong

[Nobar King]

So, you agree that you are wrong and are ready to repent your sins to Jesus?

[LordOfTheDonuts]

Originally Posted by James Hutchins

Son, on the surface, what you are doing appears mighty commendable. How you are doing it is questionable.

I'll give you a hypothetical. It is ridiculous, but just read it and think about it.
A man is hired to kill Christian parents , so the evil children can get their inheritance. Upon receiving the inheritance, the hit man gives it to the Church. Is it wrong for the murders to of be done?
I know that was a silly example and and an extreme.

I get your point, but don't worry, I haven't and won't murder anyone, and in your eyes it might be the wrong way, in my eyes it's just the least I could do..

I've been through a lot of misery and only had my faith I could hold on to, I'm very limited in what I can do because of injuries, and with the things that I still can do, I just want to make something good out of this mess I've been through..

I understand your opinions, and I hope you understand mine.. And maybe it isn't the right way, but I'm just trying

[LordOfTheDonuts]

Originally Posted by Nobar King

So, you agree that you are wrong and are ready to repent your sins to Jesus?

Yes I understand, I have learned visions I didn't see before and if I made sins, I'll repend. But the bands I'm in, I just give the money I earn with them to the church and then I'm out.

I hope it's not too late to be saved..

[James Hutchins]

Originally Posted by LordOfTheDonuts

I get your point, but don't worry, I haven't and won't murder anyone, and in your eyes it might be the wrong way, in my eyes it's just the least I could do..

I've been through a lot of misery and only had my faith I could hold on to, I'm very limited in what I can do because of injuries, and with the things that I still can do, I just want to make something good out of this mess I've been through..

I understand your opinions, and I hope you understand mine.. And maybe it isn't the right way, but I'm just trying

I do understand. But you need to find other methods to your ends. Even if your music is of the best of intentions, I assure you, the audience is not all listening. They only hear the genre. I was a kid, and I think I am one of the few adults that actually remembers what it was like and how I thought. No, I do not think I am much smarter now. I am certainly less quick witted. But I am more observant. Think about it.

[LordOfTheDonuts]

Originally Posted by James Hutchins

I do understand. But you need to find other methods to your ends. Even if your music is of the best of intentions, I assure you, the audience is not all listening. They only hear the genre. I was a kid, and I think I am one of the few adults that actually remembers what it was like and how I thought. No, I do not think I am much smarter now. I am certainly less quick witted. But I am more observant. Think about it.

Yeah, actually I know about 90% of the crowd isn't listening to the intentions of the music, wich I find very sad. But it provides money for the church, and things start finally to work out, because there has been a lot of problems before they started building this church, and since it's a small community donations won't help the church out of its debts, so for me are the non-listeners just providers of money for the church, wich is the point why I joined these bands. I was a freelance guitarist before my car accident, and I've been in coma for several months, I played only acoustic and in the church orchestral. And 3 years ago the church burned down, and knowing they wouldn't be able to build a new one, I decided to use the money that I have left for the church..

The intention is good though, but maybe it isn't enough..

[James Hutchins]

Originally Posted by LordOfTheDonuts

Yeah, actually I know about 90% of the crowd isn't listening to the intentions .........................The intention is good though, but maybe it isn't enough..

Answered in a nutshell.

It is a thin line you are walking. What you are doing with the money is terrific. How you are getting it is very questionable. I know you have a dilemma in that what you are doing is popular with the kids and therefore you get decent door receipts. But is it right? Talk to your Pastor and God. Make sure they both know that you may be earning stained money.

[LordOfTheDonuts]

Originally Posted by James Hutchins

Answered in a nutshell.

It is a thin line you are walking. What you are doing with the money is terrific. How you are getting it is very questionable. I know you have a dilemma in that what you are doing is popular with the kids and therefore you get decent door receipts. But is it right? Talk to your Pastor and God. Make sure they both know that you may be earning stained money.

Since I go to church saturdays and sundays, they know.. We've had a long conversation about it, and a way to make fast a lot of money.. And it's not for the popularity I'm in, they both know that too, but before joining these bands I made a clear statement to the other members of the band, no anti-god statements and messages in their songs, and defenitely no cursing (made them say 'fudge' instead of something you could geuss).. And the pastor gave me his blessing, even if I'm making a sin because of this, I saved something, and knowing that the community is able to continue their activities is great..

If participating these bands was selling my soul, then I did it for God and a lot of people in our community..

[Fallen]

Originally Posted by Pastor Isaac Peters

That creature could be something even more horrifying than a goth -- a goth wannabee.

He looks more poser than anything.... real goths dont wear colors

[Beatrix]

RETARDS.

[Nobar King]

a goth AND a retard. Just what I expected. Who is the revolting person in the picture?

[angels]

Originally Posted by Beatrix

RETARDS.

And this picture says it all.

[Nilon]

I seemed to have 28 of these traits, but most of them having nothing to with goth but are instead that of traits of many normal teenagers. In fact, at least 5+ are things most normal teenagers end up acting like or doing anyways.