[The Hand]

Re: Science is the true way

I think we know what kind of plants you are interested in.

[Teenaged Fool]

Re: Science is the true way

Hand, I'm a plant and soil science major

[The Hand]

Re: Science is the true way

Yup, same old empty words, cannibalized and regurgitated from Wikipedia or some other homer friendly source.

Go preach your evilution elsewhere.

[Teenaged Fool]

Re: Science is the true way

No, you didn't make it clear. I want you to prove you are actually informed about the subject you chatter about. So far, you're just another atheist fallen from grace and landed here, spouting the same old worn theories and one-liners that True Christians™ have heard a thousand times before.

How did the flower decide pollen was the best way to survive, when did it happen, and why did it happen? All answers your ilk give, when taken back far enough, end up with "we just don't know"

I want to make sure you have something new to offer before I get into a quicksand debate with someone who is ignorant of his own ways, while accusing the Good Christians™ here of being the ignorant ones, in their own house of GOD.

Qoh.3
[14] I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him.

The flower didn't decide anything. Flowers don't have free will and can't think for themselves like human beings. Billions of years ago flowers were much more simple, developed from the cells which developed chlorophyl even earlier in their evolutionary paths. At some point during early evolution plant cells developed the ability to sexually reproduce to increase their rates of survival. Through sexual reproduction the best aspects in an organism are allowed to develop further, and these aspects are what differentiate our current day organisms. Eons ago the ancestors of modern day flowers developed pollination as a logical and practical form of sexual reproduction. From that point on the plants which could spread their pollen best would be the plants that would evolve further, into the plants in your garden or in the park. Things happen for a reason you say, but I say there's a reason things happen. The reason plants look the way they do now is because the traits which made them most attractive to pollinators became dominant and thrived through survival of the fittest. The plant didn't decide anything, there is a REASON it functions the way it does.

[The Hand]

Re: Science is the true way

No, you didn't make it clear. I want you to prove you are actually informed about the subject you chatter about. So far, you're just another atheist fallen from grace and landed here, spouting the same old worn out theories and one-liners that True Christians™ have heard a thousand times before.

How did the flower decide pollen was the best way to survive, when did it happen, and why did it happen? All answers your ilk give, when taken back far enough, end up with "we just don't know"

I want to make sure you have something new to offer before I get into a quicksand debate with someone who is ignorant of his own ways, while accusing the Good Christians™ here of being the ignorant ones, in their own house of GOD.

Qoh.3
[1] To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
[11] He hath made every thing beautiful in his time: also he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end.
[14] I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him.

[Teenaged Fool]

Re: Science is the true way

I believe that in my above post I make that pretty clear. Billions of years allowed for this to happen. Lets say that you have a bunch of ordinary yellow flowers. Now the flowers with the brightest petals are able to attract the most bees because the bees relate the bright colors to a healthy plant, one with a lot of nectar. More bees on average land on this flower, pick up its pollen, and fly off to other plants. Because the beautifully rich colors on that flower attract more bees, that flower passes on its color enhanced genes to the next generation and so forth.

The flower didnt learn anything. Because of its enhanced coloration it was more fit to reproduce, and as such the current day generation of flowers is as vibrant as it is.

[The Hand]

Re: Science is the true way

So how did the flower learn to entice the bee?

[Teenaged Fool]

Re: Science is the true way

What I am saying isn't a denial, its an acceptance. The miracle is in the fact that what happens does happen by chance. Yes, over millions of years I think the Sacculina barnacle developed the tendency to invade a crab and use it as a host. When I am told that I am insane for trying to deny a single entity being responsible for EVERYTHING, I wonder how others can believe that a single entity is responsible for EVERYTHING. I feel like it is almost the easy way out to just say God did this and that and that is why EVERYTHING is how it is. I challenge everyone to try and open their minds, think about alternatives. Grass is green because chlorophyl cells have evolved to absorb energy from the sun. Plant are fragrant and colorful because they have evolved to attract pollinators to reproduce. I am not denying the beauty or miracle of any of these occurrences, simply trying to understand how these things have come to be through eons of extremely SLOW change.

I didn't come on this forum to flame and troll, I only want to share my opinions in the hope that someone will read and begin to think more for themselves. The reason there are multiple editions of educational textbooks is because science is constantly finding out new things and realizing mistakes of old. The fact that most people only accept one edition of the bible leads me to believe that there is no thought in reading it, only blind obedience.

[The Hand]

Re: Science is the true way

Indeed. There are some harsh lessons from nature. There is much to be learned from beasts, but they are just that - beasts. Which is why GOD made us in His image.

We should be more concerned with what happens to our immortal soul when mortal flesh expires. It is not too late to invest in your soul, sinner. It will return with interest a thousand fold in the Afterlife.

[Bobby-Joe]

Re: Science is the true way

I am always dumbfounded when people can look at the world around them and say it happened by chance. It's almost like they want it to be true. All the beautiful miracles of life, you just wish to explain with one big sweeping denial - "It was an accident"

How did the flower learn to entice the bee? Did it just happen by chance? A lucky accident?

Yes, how about the Sacculina barnacle? Do you think pure random chance gave it the ability to invade a crab's body, send tendrils threw the crab's body, lobotomize it's brain and turn it into a host for the Sacculina's eggs; slowly and painful transforming the male crab into a neutered female. Only our loving Savior could have come up with such horrific fate for a sinning animal like He did for those crabs.

Face it sinner; Darwin is dead.

[The Hand]

Re: Science is the true way

I am always dumbfounded when people can look at the world around them and say it happened by chance. It's almost like they want it to be true. All the beautiful miracles of life, you just wish to explain with one big sweeping denial - "It was an accident"

How did the flower learn to entice the bee? Did it just happen by chance? A lucky accident?

[Teenaged Fool]

Re: Science is the true way

Motorcycles lack the necessary gametes and genetic structure to procreate, but the point I was trying to get across is that if you spent billions of years shaking a bag of parts, yes, they would randomly assemble into a motorcycle. By random chance we were created, probability runs everything and given the amount of time I am talking about, anything could happen. The fact of the matter is a motorcycle and an organic living creature are two COMPLETELY different things. The theory of evolution describes survival of the fittest, genetic advantages leading towards specific members of a species having an increased chance to spread their genes. Motorcycles were engineered by people, organic matter was engineered by time and fortune.

Sorry it took me so long to respond, Big Zeke changed my username and by trying to log into my old username, Thinkbeforeyoutype, I was unable to enter the forum. Only now through using my new name Teenaged Fool, am I able to join in conversation with you people of the highest and least foolish intellect.

[BelieverInGod]

Re: Science is the true way

Oh of course motorcycles procreate, why my brother put a Harley and a Kawasaki into winter storage. When he went back this spring, there it was! A little Vespa parked between the two.

[The Hand]

Re: Science is the true way

If you put all the parts of a motorcycle in a bag and shook it for billions of years, i would wager eventually you would get something vaguely motorcycle-like in the end. Just like how eons of time allowed for simple primordial elements to combine into the complex proteins and compounds that organic matter is made of. The chances of shaking motorcycle parts into the shape of a motorcycle over millions of years is probably somewhere near the same odds of carbon nitrogen and other elements organizing themselves into living things around us today. The only difference is that environmental factors cant cause your motorcycle parts to line up in ways that better enable it to run. To be honest the chance of a person shaking a bag of parts into a motorcycle makes more sense to me personally than an invisible wizard snapping his fingers and causing a motorcycle to appear from mid-air.

And so you are arguing that motorcycles just create themselves then?

Show me this mystical place where motorcycles magically assemble themselves out of random parts.

I think you've been watching too many movies about transforming robots. Put them out of your mind and pray to GOD for forgiveness. Maybe He will take pity and bestow you with some sense.

[Levi Jones]

Re: Science is the true way

If you put all the parts of a motorcycle in a bag and shook it for billions of years, i would wager eventually you would get something vaguely motorcycle-like in the end. Just like how eons of time allowed for simple primordial elements to combine into the complex proteins and compounds that organic matter is made of. The chances of shaking motorcycle parts into the shape of a motorcycle over millions of years is probably somewhere near the same odds of carbon nitrogen and other elements organizing themselves into living things around us today. The only difference is that environmental factors cant cause your motorcycle parts to line up in ways that better enable it to run. To be honest the chance of a person shaking a bag of parts into a motorcycle makes more sense to me personally than an invisible wizard snapping his fingers and causing a motorcycle to appear from mid-air.

Really? That's one of the most ignorant statements I have ever read on the internets.
Its sheer stupidity is amazing.

If I'm reading this correctly, your contention is that by shaking random parts you have a better chance of making a motorcycle than by a skilled blacksmith or creator doing the same thing.

This is stupid even by atheist standards.