[MitzaLizalor]

Re: How can we see stars if they are "millions of light years" away?

It is ridiculous.

Let's take the astro- disciplines at their word. Light travels at such-and-such a speed so therefore traverses a certain distance in a year. It follows that an event 4-light-years away (Proxima Centauri exploding, say) would be seen in America four years after it actually happened.

Alternatively, the explosion observed here would have occurred four years previously.

Not wishing to leave out any option, however absurd, I'll include that the explosion happens exactly when we see it but the exploding object gets catapulted backwards in time. An astro- can do the calculation about velocity of catapulting, in this case an astrophysicist. Or perhaps a string theorist.

OK. We know what they say, it gets plastered across all available media every time a comet appears or some bright object blinks on. My précis is for reference only.

Next, consider a more remote object. Obviously looking at something through a magnifying device makes it look bigger. For example a tiny ant biting you is easy to feel but difficult to see. Through a magnifying glass however its wee legs are quite clear and even its biting apparatus, which is actually a sting, can be made out. Just because it's small doesn't mean it's more distant. And the fact you can magnify it doesn't mean it's large.

The W.M. Keck Observatory on Mauna Kea in Hawaii has very large magnifying capabilities indeed. In the hands of an astro- we could certainly expect some whoppers and that's exactly what they've served up. In 1998, astrophysicist Saul Perlmutter, leader of the Supernova Cosmology Project based at the U.S. Department of Energy's Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory in Berkeley, Calif., announced that his team has discovered a supernova that exploded almost 10 billion years ago. Wow! So that means the light has taken 10,000,000,000 years to get here! They've named it "Albinoni " for some reason. Now they do allow that the thing was catapulted backwards 8,000,000,000 years (whether in space or time is immaterial v.i.) but I'm sure you can see how ridiculous this is. Simply magnifying a small object, like the ant, does not make it far away. But.—.again taking them at their word.—.this light is supposed to have set off on its journey an enormous time ago because it's at an enormous distance? That sounds like circular reasoning to me.

The ruler in my earlier post is convenient for a visual aid; according to the astro- mob Albinoni blew up all those millennia ago and the light's been whizzing along through boundless emptiness all the way to Keck. I'll even allow a bit extra for the time before it exploded, since there'd have to be something there to detonate in the first place. A billion years, maybe? This would be well down on my ruler but here's the rub. Whether or not we have telescopes or any theories about what we see, some facts are so well established that they become axiomatic. Whenever that light set off and however many trillions of miles you'd claim it traversed, no light from any star was in transit to anywhere in any universe which did not contain the world we live in. In other words, the yellow tip on that ruler would need to extend all the way down with stars shooting out light even before the earth was dreamed of.

In order to emit light an object needs to exist. But however much you stretch out the creation epoch.—.someone suggested a million years per day in an earlier post and I used that in my previous example.—.whether a day represents one-billion or two- or three-billion years or even a trillion years you'll never get to a point where there were stars before the earth.

The only possibility I can think of is for the light to have negative velocity racing backwards in time to the tune of however distant in lightyears the object is supposed to have beeen from the observer.

But that is ridiculous.



1. https://www.space.com/26385-keck-observatory.html
2. http://www2.lbl.gov/supernova/albinoni.html
. . .a supernova that exploded almost 10 billion years ago, the oldest confirmed supernova ever found.
. . .Nicknamed Albinoni by its discoverers it is also the most distant confirmed supernova, estimated to
. . .be some 18 billion light-years away.

[FatZ2018]

Re: How can we see stars if they are "millions of light years" away?

This stuff is too funny!!

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: How can we see stars if they are "millions of light years" away?

.You do realize that light was created just over six millennia ago:

.Genesis 1:3: And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

.You need a good Bible lesson.

.if a star is burning, in your "terms", I would say that light is on.

.If a star is millions of light years away then it would take a million years for the light to arrive at earth (traveling at 299 792 458 m / s)....

.We can see the stars, therefor the earth is at least a million years old.

First I should clarify the context here. The "million year day" is an attempt to accommodate terminology Christians usually avoid. Genesis is clear that creation epochs are ONE DAY each comprising morning and evening which includes days one, two and three. The sun was created on day four.

Genesis 1:16-19

Before this no stars existed. Now secularists maintain that light from stars takes millions of years to reach earth, a "million year" age was suggested so I ran with that. Allowing one million years for each Creation day produces an absurd result. The exchange where this figure was presented is quoted.

The yardstick [RIGHTand ABOVE] allows 1mm per million years.

The same yardstick appears [LEFT] with the 6 creation days highlighted in yellow. That would be 6 million years on the million year creation day hypothesis. The yardstick standard only allows 1,000 of these million year days. Evolutionists demand deep time.

But I've shown deep time on the scale required with the "6 million" years of creation days preserved in yellow. Don't look at the thick yardstick. Look at the narrow line.

Somewhere in that yellow section (yes, it is just visible) stars were created. Zzooom off went the light towards earth - we are told - and now today we see billions and billions and billions of years away those stars.

Not an age difference of 1 day. Or 2 or 3 days. An age difference of thousands of millions of years.

Secular cosmologists are not challenging God by small amounts. They are throwing up errors of fantastic magnitudes in the case of the earth and the sun and the stars and the trees, where they choof out thirteen billion years for one day; the error is of gigantic proportions.

There is no equivalence. Not by the slightest degree. Check it out. Can you see the yellow on the thin vertical line?

It's there.

That's how warped they want us to be.

[Dr. Anthony J. Toole]

Re: How can we see stars if they are "millions of light years" away?

Right on, Sister. The term "light years", I have never bought it. The word "light" refers to light bulbs or Christmas Tree lights. The word "years" is on the calendar. They have nothing to do with each other.

What's next? Light minutes or light seconds? Scientists have been out there in la la land for years and are still there.

You're too funny, Mr. Mayor! But on a serious note, these "light years" are just made up nonsense that oppress Christians. Remember that we Christians brought the world the Dark Ages. That is something those scientist heretics ought to bear in mind before spouting off their hateful lies. We are watching and when Jesus returns you'll see all those fairy lights go out.

[Dana723]

Re: How can we see stars if they are "millions of light years" away?

I'm sure this is interesting, but it's way too much for my female brain to handle. I'm going to print out the responses and give them to my sons next week for their homeschooling lesson.

[James Hutchins]

Re: How can we see stars if they are "millions of light years" away?

Deny god? Nope, I deny his existence, just like I deny the existence of fairies, leprechauns and and flying spaghetti monsters.
Throwing biblical verses at me is a waste of your time. The bible is not evidentially viable and therefore holds NO truth, regardless of what you believe.
You sir, are a disgrace to the UK, get yourself to the states where more will accept you, no will will accept your racist, narcissistic, mysoginistic views, which I like of course. Our prime minister has distance himself from religion, the opposition is an atheist, Europe is for the intelligent, not the ignorant. And there's nothing you can say or do that will change people's perception . You are and always will be the minority, because your a fool.
I'm not saying give up your faith, that's up to you, but see sense and see that people of all varieties are equal to you.

"And on the 1st day, man created God"

Regards
Edd

Eddie, may I call you Ed? Terriffic!


Now Eddie, you have every right to believe in what ever you want. Be it Aunt Jeremiah or Uncle Ben, or (I have to laugh at this) Santa Claus. Not a single soul I know of prays to them, has a conversation with them, Walks the sands of Life(r) with them. But perfectly apparently normal people do these things with God every day.
He, in His Infinite Wisdom (tm) gave you Free Will. you can be a fool and suffer the consequences or do it right and become Saved(c) come the glory!


Consider this:
You're riding your bike, all proud because your dad took off the training wheels. A Good Humor truck comes and runs over your gut, causing your body to burst and spray entrails all over the street.

You're dead
Whether due to your own disgusting sinning or the Lords divine will, you are dead. Instantly your soul begins falling towards the black abyss above Hell. The falling seems eternal as you gather speed and the heat begins to grow. Then you notice a red dot below you growing larger by the second, this is the Lake in the center of Hell. It is the brightest point in Hell therefore it is visible for a great distance. Keep in mind that the farther you fall, the further from Christ you are.
As you gain speed and the flames become apparent you may wonder how you can stop this from happening. The answer is simple. It's too late and you can't, you're doomed. Your soul is damned and it WILL happen. The temperature is now approaching the unbearable limit as your flesh begins to smoulder and ignite and you continue to build speed as you plummet toward the now visible boiling Lake of Fire. You can almost make out individual souls thrashing in the magma with your flaming eyesockets. Soon you will join them, your terror mounts as your screams become gargled with the stench of Hells evil smell. The heat becomes excruciating as you notice your skin peeling away and your bones becoming visible and black. Flaming and screaming in anguish, you splashdown into the acidic brimstone of Satans Lake at around 250 MPH. You are instantly vaporized and reformed as a tormented soul writhing in absolute terror in the deafening depths of the Lake that Burns Eternal. The pain is beyond comprehension as you gnash your teeth so hard they shatter in your mouth. Satan periodically plucks you from the flames to savagely rape repeatedly and casually tosses you to his infernal minions to rip apart and rape at will, only to be reformed and have this scenario repeated...over and over and over, forever.
Is it still funny mocking our mission to Save© your soul? We want you to enjoy Heaven and eternal praise and worship at the feet of our Saviour the Lord Jesus Christ.

Unless you are Saved™ by Jesus Christ and His Holy website and favorite church, Landover Baptist, there is no other way to avoid this.

[Johny Joe Hold]

Re: How can we see stars if they are "millions of light years" away?

Right on, Sister. The term "light years", I have never bought it. The word "light" refers to light bulbs or Christmas Tree lights. The word "years" is on the calendar. They have nothing to do with each other.

What's next? Light minutes or light seconds? Scientists have been out there in la la land for years and are still there.

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: How can we see stars if they are "millions of light years" away?

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
You are and always will be the minority, because your a fool.
I'm not saying give up your faith, that's up to you, but see sense and see that people of all varieties are equal to you.

"And on the 1st day, man created God"

In order to not "because your a fool" it's clear that giving up faith would be required. According to Eddie James! And that is something we're asked to do. "Seeing sense" means accepting that people who want to murder me because I reject their idiotic prophets or idols are equal? Perhaps he means equally deserving of respect. I disagree. How can I respect someone who not only swallows obviously insane dogma but announces that all nations should follow their blasphemous lunacy and, get this, would murder anyone who opposed their garbage exactly as set forth in the garbage itself? "Oh wow," they may say. "Wow! We are the most peaceful people, hospitable, self-deprecating, tolerant.." but I've heard it so often it's hardly worth listening. Even asking them if they really mean what they're saying will they repudiate the text giving authority to murderers? Denounce those inciting genocide in the public square? Speak out against doctrines requiring murder? All you need to do is read them or listen to them to know what those doctrines are and where they come from.

They will not do that but want us to give up our source material! God knows all about the world He created and has told us many facts about it.

FACT: The need for Salvation.
FACT: That we are conceived in sin and deserve torture.
FACT: Only blood can atone for sin.
FACT: Eve's disobedience brought death into the world.
FACT: Jesus died to set us free.
FACT: Most people reject this idea.
FACT: The waters above are held back by a firmament.
FACT: The creation of new stars has ceased.

There are many more facts God has explained but the point is we know how long it is since God created the stars because there's a record that's very easy to check. People argue about when the first humans were created. I'm going to use a couple of estimates without commenting on how long each creation day would need to be in either case.

ESTIMATE 1: 150,000 years
ESTIMATE 2: 975,000 years

These estimates are made by Darwinists among whom one source of contention is what constitutes a human. God does not describe the shape of the firmament so it's possible for stars to be different distances above us. Perhaps it could have started out smooth but developed spiky extensions or been stretched out irregularly as shown in the illustration, viewed as though from the other side of the sky. We know that light was created before stars and if the firmament suddenly changed shape, could residual light get trapped in the hollow cones (as viewed from our side of the sky) causing the illusion of a point source? Clicking the picture goes to a larger version; some of the tips appear to glow, sort of like that.

I'm bending over backwards here to accommodate these claims for a reason. Even if creation days were 150,000 years or even 1,000,000 years each the claims of astrologists with their distant objects at 78,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 miles produces an absurd result.

EITHER the firmament would be a completely ridiculous shape, unable to support the water above it
OR the earth would need to be older than the stars!

In either case, the amount of time required for light to "reach us" EVEN ALLOWING FOR DARWINIST FIRST HUMAN DATES exceeds the amount of available time, confirmed by God, for light to travel anywhere. Of course heathens will just revert to God being wrong about that. But if He's wrong about something so fundamental, including the entry of sin into creation and the need for Redemption which is an integral part of the account, how could He be trusted for anything?

He could not.

Which is another aspect of heathen cosmology. Secularists everywhere challenge The Bible with teachings directly contradicting God as though they'd have us repudiate Him and His revealed wisdom altogether.

Genesis 1:31 – 2:1 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

[Gregory Mitch]

Re: How can we see stars if they are "millions of light years" aw

You all do realize that the light doesn't just start shining from the stars when you're born.... The earth is millions of years old therefore light from these faraway stars has reached earth by now... So... It's completely logical.

You all need a good physics lesson.

Like pastor Issac said, light was created by God six thousand years ago, so therefore your "logic" is easily debunked. (Here's some scripture to prove my point)
Genesis 1:3, And God said, Let there be light: and there was light
I hope that I helped you become less confused.

[Eddie James]

Re: How can we see stars if they are "millions of light years" away?

What rot!

You are an atheist because you deny God. You KNOW God exists but you deny him so you can carry on with your buggery or whatever you get up to in your sordid little hell hole.

Romans 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,


The word of God describing Stephen Dawkings etc. perfectly. You all know God exists but you suffer from circular thinking.


Roman 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,'.

Psalm 14:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.


Round and round you spewing your hate everywhere you go.

YIC

Jack

Deny god? Nope, I deny his existence, just like I deny the existence of fairies, leprechauns and and flying spaghetti monsters.
Throwing biblical verses at me is a waste of your time. The bible is not evidentially viable and therefore holds NO truth, regardless of what you believe.
You sir, are a disgrace to the UK, get yourself to the states where more will accept you, no will will accept your racist, narcissistic, mysoginistic views, which I like of course. Our prime minister has distance himself from religion, the opposition is an atheist, Europe is for the intelligent, not the ignorant. And there's nothing you can say or do that will change people's perception . You are and always will be the minority, because your a fool.
I'm not saying give up your faith, that's up to you, but see sense and see that people of all varieties are equal to you.

"And on the 1st day, man created God"

Regards
Edd

[Jack O'fagan]

Re: How can we see stars if they are "millions of light years" away?

Being an atheist means only ONE thing, that we lack the faith of any deities. That's it, there are sub-categories, such as anti-theist ect, but atheism is subject only to those who don't believe in any gods

So the only way an atheist could be bad, is if he/she believed in a god/s, those atheist who have committed atrocities can't put their evil behaviour down to being an atheist. It's not hard to grasp now is it?

What rot!

You are an atheist because you deny God. You KNOW God exists but you deny him so you can carry on with your buggery or whatever you get up to in your sordid little hell hole.

Romans 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,


The word of God describing Stephen Dawkings etc. perfectly. You all know God exists but you suffer from circular thinking.


Roman 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,'.

Psalm 14:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.


Round and round you spewing your hate everywhere you go.

YIC

Jack

[Didymus Much]

Re: How can we see stars if they are "millions of light years" away?

...atheism is subject only to those who don't believe in any gods

So the only way an atheist could be bad, is if he/she believed in a god/s...

Then they wouldn't be atheist (by your own definition [see above]).

...It's not hard to grasp now is it?

Apparently, it is, for some.

[Eddie James]

Re: How can we see stars if they are "millions of light years" away?

Dwuh? Try to prove that.



If you don't see the problem there, don't you dare go casting aspersions on anyone else's intellect. Seriously.

Please read as if you were reading to a 3 year old or the mentally disadvantaged

Try to prove what? That there's no such thing as a bad atheist? Being an atheist means only ONE thing, that we lack the faith of any deities. That's it, there are sub-categories, such as anti-theist ect, but atheism is subject only to those who don't believe in any gods

So the only way an atheist could be bad, is if he/she believed in a god/s, those atheist who have committed atrocities can't put their evil behaviour down to being an atheist. It's not hard to grasp now is it?

[Didymus Much]

Re: How can we see stars if they are "millions of light years" away?

...there's no such thing as a bad atheist...

Dwuh? Try to prove that.

...apart from those atheists who believe in a personal god.

If you don't see the problem there, don't you dare go casting aspersions on anyone else's intellect. Seriously.

[Eddie James]

Re: How can we see stars if they are "millions of light years" away?

And who do you think has determined not to locate Iowa near the ocean, or make it an island? And what could be the reason for that?

Why do all atheists have this "know-it-all" attitude?

Atheism has nothing to do with science, political views, world views or anything else other than the lack of faith in deities, there's no such thing as a bad atheist, apart from those atheists who believe in a personal god.