[Redeemed Papist]

Re: Why Mormons are NOT Christians

Hi Noah,

Thank you so much for your kind demeanor. I truly appreciate it.

That is a great question! The first one that come to mind is:

John 3:16
16 ¶For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Thanks!

But you don't believe in Him. You believe in some palpably made up twaddle.

[Mary Etheldreda]

Re: Why Mormons are NOT Christians

I agree that the the feelings I received from the Holy Ghost are not unique to members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I truly believe you too have felt the Holy Ghost in your life as well since I can tell that you are a good Christian from your posts I believe that we are all children of our Heavenly Father. Acts 17:29. Thus, our Heavenly Father loves each of us and will guide us towards truth to help us return to him.

Well, my heavenly Father was never a man. (Genesis 1:1)

How do I know it wasn't a figment of my imagination? I can't prove it, but I feel it. Just like I can't see the wind, I sure enough feel its soft breath on my face and know its real. Further, I feel it quite often as I study the scriptures and get on my knees every day in prayer.

I'm sorry, I'm confused. Does that mean you haven't prayed to Jesus to reveal Himself to you as He really is? You just trust your own feelings to be right?

Maybe I should clarify myself a bit. We don't believe that other religions are evil

Apparently Nephi doesn't agree with you:

And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth.
1 Nephi 14

Why do you come here to persecute us by calling us members of the church of the devil?

I read the Holy Bible (KJV) just as much as I read the Book of Mormon. I truly believe them to be companions which both teach of Jesus Christ and Gods dealings with the people on the American continent at the time.

Where in the KJV do you find the American continent spoken about?



You might find this sermon helpful.

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: Why Mormons are NOT Christians

I'm hoping that we can keep a civil tone and speak of our beliefs without condescension.

True Christianity(tm) is the only true religion that adheres to God's Holy Word without error.

Your cult deserves nothing but scorn and ridicule.

[Billy Bob Jenkins]

Re: Why Mormons are NOT Christians

Hello,

I'm hoping that we can keep a civil tone and speak of our beliefs without condescension.

I agree that no one is supposed to add to the gospel as it was originally taught. However, if one was to interpret said scriptures to mean that no further revelation nor scriptures could ever come to pass, then wouldn't the scripture from the old testament mean that the new testament is void since no more prophets could write holy scripture? Further, you do realize that the bible was not compiled at the time these scriptures were being written and thus they do not refer to adding or subtracting from the "Bible" since the Bible as a book did not yet exist. Finally, what of the many scriptural books that are mentioned in the Bible itself - that are not contained in the Bible - are they now void since a group of men hundreds of years later didn't add them into the compilation of the Bible?

This is a key and distinguishing difference between my faith and others. We believe in continued revelation. We believe that God is the same yesterday, today and forever and once again uses a prophet to guide us, His children. Amos 3:7.

The Book of Mormon does not add to the gospel principles, it simply is a companion - another testament of Jesus Christ that teaches the same things. If you take a look at an actual Book of Mormon, you'll notice the footnotes at the bottom of each page with many, many, references to the Bible on every page.

Anything we believe that is not commonly practiced now, is not an addition, but rather a restoration of what was originally taught.

What if what I was saying was true? What if God once again speaks to us through living prophets just as he did for thousands of years in the Bible? What if God still lives and speaks? What would be more important to find out? I promise that anyone can know what I know to be true, just go to mormon.org to find out more - and then pray about it with real intent. Then act on it.

Sorry for ending the conversation here, but I've gotta run. I'll see if I can log on again later if anyone has any more questions.

Thank you all for your civility. I hope we understand each other better now

Okay, so the Bible and the book of moron teach the same thing. Then obviously the book of moron was not revealed by God. After all, why would God repeat Himself, if He had already made Himself clear? He is not some jabbering imbecile who speaks compulsively.

Next you say that, while the Bible forbids additions, the very nature of writing necessitates additions. Again, it sounds like you're saying God is an idiot. Why would God forbid adding to scripture, if that was what He wanted?

[cody johnson]

Re: Why Mormons are NOT Christians

I find it hard to believe that you have read the Bible, believe it, and persist in following the book of moron, when the Bible clearly forbids adding to scripture. How do you justify this abominable crime against God? Do you think He is unfair to you? Does He not coddle you enough?

Hello,

I'm hoping that we can keep a civil tone and speak of our beliefs without condescension.

I agree that no one is supposed to add to the gospel as it was originally taught. However, if one was to interpret said scriptures to mean that no further revelation nor scriptures could ever come to pass, then wouldn't the scripture from the old testament mean that the new testament is void since no more prophets could write holy scripture? Further, you do realize that the bible was not compiled at the time these scriptures were being written and thus they do not refer to adding or subtracting from the "Bible" since the Bible as a book did not yet exist. Finally, what of the many scriptural books that are mentioned in the Bible itself - that are not contained in the Bible - are they now void since a group of men hundreds of years later didn't add them into the compilation of the Bible?

This is a key and distinguishing difference between my faith and others. We believe in continued revelation. We believe that God is the same yesterday, today and forever and once again uses a prophet to guide us, His children. Amos 3:7.

The Book of Mormon does not add to the gospel principles, it simply is a companion - another testament of Jesus Christ that teaches the same things. If you take a look at an actual Book of Mormon, you'll notice the footnotes at the bottom of each page with many, many, references to the Bible on every page.

Anything we believe that is not commonly practiced now, is not an addition, but rather a restoration of what was originally taught.

What if what I was saying was true? What if God once again speaks to us through living prophets just as he did for thousands of years in the Bible? What if God still lives and speaks? What would be more important to find out? I promise that anyone can know what I know to be true, just go to mormon.org to find out more - and then pray about it with real intent. Then act on it.

Sorry for ending the conversation here, but I've gotta run. I'll see if I can log on again later if anyone has any more questions.

Thank you all for your civility. I hope we understand each other better now

[cody johnson]

Re: Why Mormons are NOT Christians

This must be the newest LDS ploy. Doing your mission over the internets.

For your own information, the two kids who showed up at my place last week couldn't contain their lustful urgings. One of them actually attempted to obscure his engorgement by resettling the Book of Mormon over his crotch!

Too funny, I decided to flash them and they scurried like the folks from Nauvoo. I figured they had seen tatas before--afterall, Utah is the biggest porn subscribing state in the US.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/16056...f_america.html

Please remember, your body is a temple and if this story is true, I'm happy to hear the missionaries fled such a situation. 1 Corinthians 6:18-19.

Please also remember that you are literally a daughter of God. You need to treat yourself as such - for you are royalty. Just as I want my daughters to stay pure, I know our Father in Heaven expects the same from you. You can do it. I promise you that you deserve better than that kind of life.

[Billy Bob Jenkins]

Re: Why Mormons are NOT Christians

I agree that the the feelings I received from the Holy Ghost are not unique to members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I truly believe you too have felt the Holy Ghost in your life as well since I can tell that you are a good Christian from your posts I believe that we are all children of our Heavenly Father. Acts 17:29. Thus, our Heavenly Father loves each of us and will guide us towards truth to help us return to him.

How do I know it wasn't a figment of my imagination? I can't prove it, but I feel it. Just like I can't see the wind, I sure enough feel its soft breath on my face and know its real. Further, I feel it quite often as I study the scriptures and get on my knees every day in prayer.

Maybe I should clarify myself a bit. We don't believe that other religions are evil, we simply believe that the fullness of the gospel has been restored once again as it was originally organized by Christ himself during his ministry on earth. We don't believe we are fixing anything, but rather completing something. As the former Prophet stated before his death regarding converts to our religion - he told them to bring all their good with them.

I read the Holy Bible (KJV) just as much as I read the Book of Mormon. I truly believe them to be companions which both teach of Jesus Christ and Gods dealings with the people on the American continent at the time.

Deuteronomy 12:32

King James Version (KJV)

32What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.


Proverbs 30:5-6

King James Version (KJV)

5Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
6Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

I find it hard to believe that you have read the Bible, believe it, and persist in following the book of moron, when the Bible clearly forbids adding to scripture. How do you justify this abominable crime against God? Do you think He is unfair to you? Does He not coddle you enough?

[cody johnson]

Re: Why Mormons are NOT Christians

Why thank you, dear.



Interestingly, the same thing happens to other people when finding out if the real Christian scriptures are true. Your testimony of such a calming feeling isn't unique to Mormonism, so I can't help but wonder if it was a figment of your imagination. How do you know it's not? Have you tried praying to Jesus of the Holy Bible? If you have a truly open heart He will reveal to you that He is part of the Holy Trinity, not a "spirit brother" to Lucifer or anyone else, there is no "Heavenly Mother," and that people don't become reincarnated as gods and goddesses after death. Besides, who wants to work for eternity when they can sing the praises of God for ever and ever!

I agree that the the feelings I received from the Holy Ghost are not unique to members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I truly believe you too have felt the Holy Ghost in your life as well since I can tell that you are a good Christian from your posts I believe that we are all children of our Heavenly Father. Acts 17:29. Thus, our Heavenly Father loves each of us and will guide us towards truth to help us return to him.

How do I know it wasn't a figment of my imagination? I can't prove it, but I feel it. Just like I can't see the wind, I sure enough feel its soft breath on my face and know its real. Further, I feel it quite often as I study the scriptures and get on my knees every day in prayer.

Maybe I should clarify myself a bit. We don't believe that other religions are evil, we simply believe that the fullness of the gospel has been restored once again as it was originally organized by Christ himself during his ministry on earth. We don't believe we are fixing anything, but rather completing something. As the former Prophet stated before his death regarding converts to our religion - he told them to bring all their good with them.

I read the Holy Bible (KJV) just as much as I read the Book of Mormon. I truly believe them to be companions which both teach of Jesus Christ and Gods dealings with the people on the American continent at the time.

[Roberta]

Re: Why Mormons are NOT Christians

This must be the newest LDS ploy. Doing your mission over the internets.

For your own information, the two kids who showed up at my place last week couldn't contain their lustful urgings. One of them actually attempted to obscure his engorgement by resettling the Book of Mormon over his crotch!

Too funny, I decided to flash them and they scurried like the folks from Nauvoo. I figured they had seen tatas before--afterall, Utah is the biggest porn subscribing state in the US.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/16056...f_america.html

[Mary Etheldreda]

Re: Why Mormons are NOT Christians

Hi Mary - beautiful name by the way -

Why thank you, dear.

That is one of the best questions I've heard in a long time. The way I know, and the only way anyone can know the truth, is through prayer. After reading and studying Joseph Smith's words and revelations, I prayed with real intent to know if they were true. I then felt such a calming feeling and the Holy Ghost testified to my heart, with undeniable force, the that it was true.

Interestingly, the same thing happens to other people when finding out if the real Christian scriptures are true. Your testimony of such a calming feeling isn't unique to Mormonism, so I can't help but wonder if it was a figment of your imagination. How do you know it's not? Have you tried praying to Jesus of the Holy Bible? If you have a truly open heart He will reveal to you that He is part of the Holy Trinity, not a "spirit brother" to Lucifer or anyone else, there is no "Heavenly Mother," and that people don't become reincarnated as gods and goddesses after death. Besides, who wants to work for eternity when they can sing the praises of God for ever and ever!

[cody johnson]

Re: Why Mormons are NOT Christians

Don't worry about challenging my beliefs.

But I am curious as to how you reconcile all those Scriptures with John 10:30.

Thanks!

Hello again,

Well, honestly, I reconcile it with the scriptures I've cited in the above post. Christ explains that we all can become one with He and the Father. This does not mean that we will literally become part of the Godhead, but rather that we will be perfect in unity and purpose after we are perfected through Christ. Also, as my other scripture cites, when we are married we don't literally become one personage, but rather we are supposed to become perfect in unity and purpose. Sort of like the old motto - "an army of one"

To me, that makes sense since it would confuse me if God prayed to himself, begat himself, referred to himself as his own Son and later as his own Father. It would be confusing why when the Prophets have seen them, that God would split himself into two personages and stand by his own right hand. It would be confusing that he would not do as he wants, but as his Father wants - even though he is his own father. It would also be confusing why he would ask himself to take the bitter cup from himself.

However, I digress. To me, it is much easier to reconcile them being one in purpose and unity rather than body given all the scriptures I've cited.

Finally, I completely believe Christ himself when he said in Luke 24:36-43:

36 ¶And as they thus spake, Jesus himself astood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, bPeace be unto you.

37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.

38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?

39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.

41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?

42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.

43 And he took it, and did eat before them.

[cody johnson]

Re: Why Mormons are NOT Christians

I was less a question and more of statement. I can see how a quite conventional argument can be made that Christ and Satan are brothers. After all Satan is an angel, angels are extensions of God. It can't be agreed the same is true of Christ. One of those "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?" questions.

Really, my question is why would any sane person want to equate Satan with Christ? The Old Testament shows God is more than willing go wrathful on His creation for any old sin. I would think it's best to no remind the Almighty of that. Don't you agree?


So you feel Romney as president (which is a sure thing next November) will embrace shared sacrifice programs like service cuts for the poor and tax cuts for the rich?

Honestly, its never been taught in our church the way it is phrased in regards to Christ and Satan being brothers - rather it is a logical deduction from what is taught - I think its phrased that way by members outside of our church for shock value. I don't mean that towards you- because I know that you have been told that line.

As my above post reads, we believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. If a Son, then a brother to other sons - such as Lucifer. Isaiah 14:12.

Make sense? I know you likely won't agree, but do you see why we believe such from our interpretation of biblical scripture?

Thanks!

[Didymus Much]

Re: Why Mormons are NOT Christians

...So again, this is not to challenge your beliefs, but to simply answer the question and explain why I believe the way I do about the Godhead...

Don't worry about challenging my beliefs.

But I am curious as to how you reconcile all those Scriptures with John 10:30.

Thanks!

[Bobby-Joe]

Re: Why Mormons are NOT Christians

Hi Bobby Joe -

Can I first address your question regarding my belief in Christ? Please allow me to quote from our Bible Dictionary regarding Christ:

I was less a question and more of statement. I can see how a quite conventional argument can be made that Christ and Satan are brothers. After all Satan is an angel, angels are extensions of God. It can't be agreed the same is true of Christ. One of those "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?" questions.

Really, my question is why would any sane person want to equate Satan with Christ? The Old Testament shows God is more than willing go wrathful on His creation for any old sin. I would think it's best to no remind the Almighty of that. Don't you agree?

As for politics, I agree that we should spend less than we bring in. I personally think that term limits should be created for members of congress - thus also eliminating the billions in future pensions.

So you feel Romney as president (which is a sure thing next November) will embrace shared sacrifice programs like service cuts for the poor and tax cuts for the rich?

[cody johnson]

Re: Why Mormons are NOT Christians

Ok, that all agrees with John 10:30.

But this doesn't:



Unless God =/= Jesus. Please clarify.

Great Question. Now before I give my interpretation of scripture - I want to again state that I'm not doing it to try to say you're wrong - but rather to simply let you know why I believe the way I do.

First, I've always loved the scriptures speaking of when Christ was baptized. However, it taught me more than the fact that we need to be baptized as Christ was in order to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Here's what it says in Matthew 3:16-17:

16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

To me, this teaches also that Christ was near the water, the Holy Ghost was descending like a dove, and the God spoke from Heaven - all at the same time as three distinct personages.

not mine to give, but … of my Father, Matt. 20:23
not as I will, but as thou wilt, Matt. 26:39
baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, Matt. 28:19.
called the Son of the Highest, Luke 1:32
Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove, Luke 3:22
Son can do nothing … but what he seeth the Father do, John 5:19
Father that sent me beareth witness of me, John 8:18
a voice from heaven, saying, I have … glorified it, John 12:28
my Father is greater than I, John 14:28
that they might know thee the only true God, John 17:3
I ascend unto my Father, and your Father, John 20:17
being by the right hand of God exalted, Acts 2:33
saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, Acts 7:55
not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, Acts 17:29
even his eternal power and Godhead, Rom. 1:20
Christ, who is the image of God, 2 Cor. 4:4
I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord, Eph. 3:14
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, Heb. 1:2
three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, 1 Jn. 5:7

Now as for God and Christ being "one" - I personally believe that these scriptures speak of being "one" in purpose - or in perfect harmony. I believe this because of how Christ described it in John 17:21:

21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

Or how Moses explained how it could be used in Genesis 2:24

24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

So again, this is not to challenge your beliefs, but to simply answer the question and explain why I believe the way I do about the Godhead.

Thanks!