[Meek and Humble]

Re: Why Lutherans are a cult

That's really interesting. I guess I've never heard about the antisemitism part before though because we don't practice it anymore. I'm guessing we changed that sometime.

Any religion that needs to be changed was probably broken in the first place. God's true word is perfect and eternal.

[Oakland "Reb" Griner]

Re: Why Lutherans are a cult

With the posting of his 95 feces to the door, Luther established his own personality cult.

While, in principle, I applaud folks who aggravate the Papal Abomination, I must nevertheless insist that they conform to Landoverian KJV1611 Biblical Truth when they do it.

[sportzgrl33]

Re: Why Lutherans are a cult

I'm glad to see that at least you know that women aren't good enough to be ordained and that homosexuality is an abomination

Once a person is saved, they can never sin again. If they do, they were never saved in the first place. The Bible teaches us:

1 John 3:6
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not. 1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not.
3 John 11 He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luther_and_antisemitism

[/URL]

That's really interesting. I guess I've never heard about the antisemitism part before though because we don't practice it anymore. I'm guessing we changed that sometime.

[sportzgrl33]

Re: Why Lutherans are a cult

Luther did liken the Pope's pronouncements to breaking wind.

But Luther scribbled his own Bible translation in German (ptooie) rather than waiting on the AV 1611 which was done in the heavenly tongue (English).

He transcribed the Bible to German so that the people of his country could read and understand the Bible for themselves and be able to chose which church they belonged to based on what the Bible said and not what people were telling them.

We've been over this before very recently. It's pretty simple. They ordain women who deny Christ. That's not very Christian.

Not all denominations ordain women. The denomination I am in doesn't. Nor does my denomination allow gays to be pastors.

To fall from grace - that would require that we start to sin..
And he that sins, he isn't Saved. And never was.

So you believe that you never sin? I'm a bit confused by that, sorry.

Are you sure you're a Lutheran?

I heard that Martin Luther was in favor of taking away the property of Jews and forcing them into slave labor. Some people would consider that hate and bigotry and just plain rude.

I guess Lutherans don't!

Nope. We don't believe that. I've never saw where Martin Luther did either, but I'm not claiming to know everything that Martin Luther thought.

[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Re: Why Lutherans are a cult

I don't particularly appreciate bigotry, hate, or just plain rudeness so if you have nothing nice to say, just don't.

Are you sure you're a Lutheran?

I heard that Martin Luther was in favor of taking away the property of Jews and forcing them into slave labor. Some people would consider that hate and bigotry and just plain rude.

I guess Lutherans don't!

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: Why Lutherans are a cult

I [...]felt that I have to clarify certain things:

You needn't hve bothered.

(1) We don't follow transubstantiation as a theological doctrine, rather Real Presence/Sacramental Union - where the flesh and blood of Christ is present alongside the bread and wine. It does not turn to his flesh and blood after being blessed, it simply is already part of the sacrament.

Garbage, sounds like the difference between being hanged by a new rope and an old one. It is symbolic - read your bible... wait, no.. read KJV1611

(2) Infant baptism is done because our parents, as Lutherans, wants us to grow up a believer (certainly, after they swore an oath during our baptism, that our parents are responsible for leading us to live a Christian life, whether or not that's under the Lutheran umbrella).

Do you see any missing logic here?

Of course, it remains controversial since we were too young to judge for ourselves and our faith.

Ah! You do, but the word you are looking for is not "contraversial" it is "garbage" and ooga-booga superstitiuos mumbo-jumbo.

However, our spiritual journey doesn't end there. Confirmation would be a time in our teens to deepen our faith and learn more about our faith and mature in it.

OK, so why don't you wait and get baptized then?

Infant baptism symbolizes that we belong to God and no one else's. It does not mean we're saved.

Symbolizes!? It does nothing -zilch - denada if you don't understand it, you may as well bread a plate over the child's head for all the good it does.

I do believe in God, and I do know that someday my Prince will come. [...]

That's enough! "Some Day My Prince Will Come"??? You compare the Second Coming to a vile Disney film about a single woman living with retarded midgets without being married to any of them. You make me sick to my soul!

[dieuepargne]

Re: Why Lutherans are a cult

I found this forum while I was googling online, researching for my paper on the Reformation. Stumbled across this particular thread about Lutherans, and felt that I have to clarify certain things:

(1) We don't follow transubstantiation as a theological doctrine, rather Real Presence/Sacramental Union - where the flesh and blood of Christ is present alongside the bread and wine. It does not turn to his flesh and blood after being blessed, it simply is already part of the sacrament.

People who aren't Lutherans generally tend to generalize and think that we follow the Roman Catholic's Eucharist doctrine, when we don't. Non-Lutherans judge that our doctrine is consubstantiation but most Lutherans reject this.

(2) Infant baptism is done because our parents, as Lutherans, wants us to grow up a believer (certainly, after they swore an oath during our baptism, that our parents are responsible for leading us to live a Christian life, whether or not that's under the Lutheran umbrella). Of course, it remains controversial since we were too young to judge for ourselves and our faith. However, our spiritual journey doesn't end there. Confirmation would be a time in our teens to deepen our faith and learn more about our faith and mature in it. Infant baptism symbolizes that we belong to God and no one else's. It does not mean we're saved.

All in all, I've signed up just to say only this. I feel greatly about my faith, and while I'm not what you call a 'True Christian' - I do believe in God, and I do know that someday my Prince will come. However, I don't call myself a Christian, because I don't want others to judge Christians wrongly in case I do something un-Christian like. I'm still searching for my time to be completely saved, but I guess for you all, being a Lutheran, I'm already damned to hell, aren't I?

But I'm not going to start a trip about how I don't appreciate my faith being listed under a cult, because I know there is no use in starting up a debate as you all have pretty much (with an afternoon of reading around the forum) proved me that there's no room for differences around here. I don't particularly appreciate bigotry, hate, or just plain rudeness so if you have nothing nice to say, just don't.

I posted this because like you, I feel strongly about my faith, and when something said about Lutherans by non-Lutherans need a little fixing, I feel like I have to clear it out. You can take it however you want it, albeit it's probably with bitterness and judgment.

Just to say, Luther wrote his 95 theses in order to criticize the Roman Catholic church because he cared about the need to reform and improving the spiritual lives of his surroundings at the time. I respect Catholics because they, like it or not - pretty much established the idea of an organized church. Yes, we Lutherans have a strong Roman Catholic background, but we were also the ones who kickstarted the Reformation and gave others a chance to branch out to other denominations.

The least you could do is treat the older denominations that were responsible for the existence of your very own church with a little bit of respect, even if you don't agree on what we teach or believe in.

But I think even that is asking a bit too much.

Go ahead, condemn me and my kind to eternal damnation. I don't really care because you're not the one who will judge me later on. The God I know is a loving, merciful, and forgiving God. You've managed to make Jesus sound like a Nazi. I can't believe that people who actually love Jesus this much can be filled with so much hatred.

That's pretty much all.

Cheers.

[Buzzard]

Re: Why Lutherans are a cult

Luther did liken the Pope's pronouncements to breaking wind.

But Luther scribbled his own Bible translation in German (ptooie) rather than waiting on the AV 1611 which was done in the heavenly tongue (English).

Melancthon was a compromising homer who wore sissy clothes... and their "pastors" wear dresses to church.

And instead of being independent they huddle in SIN-ods.

[SalvationSeeker]

Re: Why are Lutherans a cult

Seeker: I thought they did believe in eternal security? I just thought they went through some stupid 12 step program at the age of 12 to get saved?
No. They believe that a person once saved, can fall from grace. According to the Bible, that's just not so.

John 10:28-29:
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
Romans 11:29: For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Pastor Billy-Reuben

How right you are, brother. Even more:
To fall from grace - that would require that we start to sin..
And he that sins, he isn't Saved. And never was.

Thus, it's completely impossible for the Saved to fall from grace.

Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not:
Whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1 John 3:6

[Brother Temperance]

Re: Why Lutherans are a cult

We've been over this before very recently. It's pretty simple. They ordain women who deny Christ. That's not very Christian.

[Brother V]

Re: Why Lutherans are a cult

The Lutherans deny most of the Bible (KJV1611) with their "sola fide" doctrine.

Those words mean salvation by faith alone.

Friend, this goes against most of the book of James. This also goes against parts of Revelation.

James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Jesus HIMSELF said:

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Friend, do you doeth?

James 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

The Lutherans, with their "faith alone" "sola fide" stance are hearers only. I pray that you don't fall into their easy trap.

YIC
V

[Pastor Billy-Reuben]

Re: Why are Lutherans a cult

Seeker: I would say the infant baptism is because all children are born in sin?? Yes we believe that as Christians. But they want to to get the horse inhead of the cart.
All infants are born in sin, but baptism is only for saved believers. You get saved first, then you get baptized.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Repent and be baptized.

Seeker: What is this....Transubfcvuodufowairpo3 that I have never heard of? Can you explain, Billy?
Just like Catholics, they believe that the communion wafer physically becomes Jesus' body, and the wine physically becomes His blood.

Seeker: I thought they did believe in eternal security? I just thought they went through some stupid 12 step program at the age of 12 to get saved?
No. They believe that a person once saved, can fall from grace. According to the Bible, that's just not so.

John 10:28-29:
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
Romans 11:29: For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Pastor Billy-Reuben

[Sister Noddy]

Re: Why are Lutherans a cult

What is this .... Transubfcvuodufowairpo3 that I have never heard of? Can you explain, Billy?

If you don't mind an answer from me, Seeker, the Cathy-lickers believe that when the bread and wine are blessed and the priests pronounce Romanized mumbo-jumbo over it at the altar, the 'elements' become the actual body and blood of Jesus.

That is, they believe the inaninmate bread and wine turn into GOD Himself. Then they eat it and drink it, like cannibals.

That's transubstantiation.

[Seeker]

Re: Why are Lutherans a cult

• Infant baptism
• Transubstantiation
• Denial of Eternal Security
• Anything but KJV

Pastor Billy-Reuben

I would say the infant baptism is because all children are born in sin?? Yes we believe that as Christians. But they want to to get the horse inhead of the cart.

What is this....Transubfcvuodufowairpo3 that I have never heard of? Can you explain, Billy?

I thought they did believe in eternal security? I just thought they went through some stupid 12 step program at the age of 12 to get saved?

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: Why are Lutherans a cult

In short, they are just slightly watered down papists. Jesus favors only True Christians™.