[eliot mayfield]

Re: Disturbing

It is true that the homosexual/lesbian movement is taking over our children and culture and perverting morality. There we can agree. I'll say, at least you brethren are taking a stand for truth when others are not. For that you are to be commended.

Thank you very much for your kind words brother. In Jesus we are all brothers and spreading his word is not an easy task in this day and age.

[silver_cougar]

Re: Disturbing

If someone is about to stick their face in a woodchipper, do you say, "I love you, even though you plan to rip your face off and spray it all over the place?"

No, you do what it takes to keep their face out of that woodchipper. You have to show tough love. You have to be cruel to be kind.

It's love-dovie garbage like yours that is to blame for Janet Jackson's "wardrobe malfunction", Iran getting away with 9/11, and the alarming drop in gay teen suicides.

So is that how it is, Mr Thurmond? Do anything it takes to bring people to Christ?

If your logic holds up, then the Crusades and the Inquisition were justified because anything that can be done to save a heathen is with God's approval, including torture and murder. I can't agree with that. Can you show me where Jesus or Paul put their stamp of approval on torturing and murdering someone? I think not.

God's religion is about teachin peace and love and tolerance, accompanied by a firm hand and the Bible. It is not about murder or causing pain. The imperfect Old Testament system is what brought pain and death, but not the New Testament, which is a covenant of grace. You brethren seem to have forgotten that.

[Jeb Stuart Thurmond]

Re: Disturbing

So is that how it is, Mr Thurmond? Do anything it takes to bring people to Christ?

Does that seem wrong to you?

How would you feel if you ended up spending endless years, endkless centuries, endless milleniums, being burnt and tortured in the rape-rooms of hell, because somebody got squeamish rather than "Do anything it takes to bring people to Christ"?

Which would you rather experience? Someone shouting "turn or burn" followed by the eternal bliss of heaven, or someone being polite, followed by eternal torture?

Look at the words Jesus used while preaching: "Fool, hypocrite, generation of vipers" and so on. Not to mention Ezekiel!

If your logic holds up, then the Crusades and the Inquisition were justified because anything that can be done to save a heathen is with God's approval, including torture and murder.

Wait, now you're opposed to Operation Iraqi Freedom, and Guantanamo Bay? Bush himself said the War on Terror is a Crusade.

Now, once someone is dead it's too late for them to accept Christ, so killing doesn't work for conversion purposes. Unless you kill someone who has committed the unforgivable sin of blaspheming the holy ghost, in order to impress those who don't.

I myself can't wait to see our crusaders in Iraq put those new microwave pain-rays to work. Being hit with one of those makes you feel like yoou've been covered with gasoline and set on fire, but afterwards you're still alive and able to accept Christ.

I can't agree with that.

Then it's your squeamishness that is resulting in people you know and love being tortured in hell forever. How can you look at an innocent little girl and say to yourself "I rather her spend eternity having cheesegraters slowly dragged accross her face while a demom wearing a sandpaper condom pounds her genetalia and intestines into a bloody pulp and hornets crwal around in her stomache, stinging every second....Yes, it's better for her to suffer that eternally than to suffer an hour or so of whatever it takes to get her soul saved."

Well, that squeamishness is just greedy. You'd rather have others be raped and tortured, as long as you don't get your hands dirty.

Can you show me where Jesus or Paul put their stamp of approval on torturing and murdering someone?

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me."

-Luke 19:27

As for torture, what do you think HELL is? I don't know if Jesus uses a stamp, but I do know he separates the wheat from the chaff.

God's religion is about teachin peace and love and tolerance, accompanied by a firm hand and the Bible. It is not about murder

We do not condone murder. We support capital punishment, and believe the military needs more freedom from rules of engagement.

or causing pain.

So then what does "spare the rod and spoil the child" mean? Being hit with a rod hurts, especially when you're a little kid. But God wants it that way. Obviously punishment has to hurt.

[see_the_light]

Re: Disturbing

So is that how it is, Mr Thurmond? Do anything it takes to bring people to Christ?

If your logic holds up, then the Crusades and the Inquisition were justified because anything that can be done to save a heathen is with God's approval, including torture and murder. I can't agree with that. Can you show me where Jesus or Paul put their stamp of approval on torturing and murdering someone? I think not.

God's religion is about teachin peace and love and tolerance, accompanied by a firm hand and the Bible. It is not about murder or causing pain. The imperfect Old Testament system is what brought pain and death, but not the New Testament, which is a covenant of grace. You brethren seem to have forgotten that.

Roy

I know your answer was not for me but I must answer. I think higlhy of you and some errors worry me.

The Old testament was imperfect because it was incomplete, not incorrect.

Nevertheles, even in the NT I would say that the (rightful) WRATH OF GOD hasn't changed a bit (in the case of the kids around we try and show some verses "to the point", in your case and knowing how you read and respect your KJV I would invite you to go back to Matthew 10, 11 and 12)

The covenant is of GRACE, bur not GRATIS, we deserve but hell, it is by JESUS and HIS GRACE that we may be saved. But there are still rules, not to deserve salvation , but at least not to offend beyond redemption.

2 Peter 2:9 "The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished"

Might we agree on this much?

As for the "stamp of approval" you ask, Revelation 11:5 (indeed in your heart the seals and stamps, you knew where to find it) things sometimes MUST be done.

PRAISE THE LORD!

[Brother Temperance]

Re: Disturbing

God's religion is about teachin peace and love and tolerance, accompanied by a firm hand and the Bible. It is not about murder or causing pain. The imperfect Old Testament system is what brought pain and death, but not the New Testament, which is a covenant of grace. You brethren seem to have forgotten that.

Are you denying that the Old Testament is the Word of God?

Deuteronomy 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.


Proverbs 30:5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
Proverbs 30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

Matthew 4:4 Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.


2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Now, I'm not denying the importance of the New Testament, but you almost seem to be suggesting that the Old Testament is somehow wrong, which is a very dangerous path to go down.

[SalvationSeeker]

Re: Disturbing

The imperfect Old Testament system is what brought pain and death, but not the New Testament, which is a covenant of grace. You brethren seem to have forgotten that.

I can't really see how you could say this..
Brother, are you somehow implying that Allmighty God, which is the one who brought the pain and death written of in the Old Testament -
Is imperfect? Or that it was wrong of Him to inflict it?

But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say?
Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man)
God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?
Romans 3:5-6

Remember that God in the Old Testament is the very same God as Jesus in the New Testament. (John 1:1 & John 10:30)
And that God doesn't change.

Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
Hebrews 13:8

For I am the LORD, I change not;
Therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
Malachi 3:6

As such, I cannot for the life of me see how you could somehow think the OT is somehow "wrong"..
Remember brother, that we must deny ourselves to follow Christ. (Matthew 16:24)
Are you sure your jugement on this issue isn't clouded by your own opinions?

For we as humans are fallible, and our ways are not the ways of God. (Isaiah 55:8-9)
We must stop letting our own opinions on things rule us, and instead trust in God to know best.
Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
Proverbs 3:5-6

I hope this isn't the case with you, brother Roy.
But it does sound like you're on a dangerous path.

[see_the_light]

Re: Disturbing

Are you denying that the Old Testament is the Word of God?


Now, I'm not denying the importance of the New Testament, but you almost seem to be suggesting that the Old Testament is somehow wrong, which is a very dangerous path to go down.

That was my worry as well, when I read silver_cougar's reply , the KJV allows no cherry-picking ALL of it is THE WORD OF GOD, but maybe he was just saying that we had (in someway) misregarded the NT (that we didn't, but it would be a reasonable worry from any TRUE CHRISTIAN)

PRAY TO JESUS!

[Google is not God]

Re: Disturbing

Bible fights Ftw !!!

[ISuckTheWiiUp]

Re: Disturbing

If someone is about to stick their face in a woodchipper, do you say, "I love you, even though you plan to rip your face off and spray it all over the place?"

No, you do what it takes to keep their face out of that woodchipper. You have to show tough love. You have to be cruel to be kind.

It's love-dovie garbage like yours that is to blame for Janet Jackson's "wardrobe malfunction", Iran getting away with 9/11, and the alarming drop in gay teen suicides.

So Jeb. Iran pulled off 9/11?

It's hardly unprecedented. Jesus sent Islamic suicide bombers to kill all those liberal queers up in Joo York on 9/11, and He sends them to kill Israelis on a regular basis, but I don't see you complaining about that.

But apparently Jesus sent Islams!

[SalvationSeeker]

Re: Disturbing

So Jeb. Iran pulled off 9/11?

But apparently Jesus sent Islams!

Iran pulled off 9/11, yes.
God, through satan, put the idea and the planning in their head.
And they were able to succeed at it because God had lifted His protection of America, due to the sins of people like YOU.

That's how Jesus sent them - He (through proxy, satan) got them to come here and punish America for it's sins.
It was still they who carried out all the physical work.

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: Disturbing

But apparently Jesus sent Islams!

Who are you to question Christ? He uses those He sees fit to use. Just like that chink He used to clean out a few sodomites and fornicators at Virginia Tech earlier this year. Jesus decides who His tools will be. Read the Bible.

[ISuckTheWiiUp]

Re: Disturbing

I was simply stating that Brother Temperance said that Jesus was behind 9/11, not questioning Christ.