[James Hutchins]

Re: Hi All

Hello all, my wife has convinced me to let you know I am not a figment of imagination. I hope that this will become a source of dialog for a few of you and open a discourse of productive conversation. My name is Jay and I look forward to chatting with some of you in the future.

Welcome Jay!
Tell me all about your walk with Jesus and how His Perfect Light has guided you through all these troubling times.
What guns do you shoot?
Are you really disabled or has your wife poisoned you (many do). If you are disabled, why? Was it something you did or is it a punishment for something your parents did? Often, if the mother is a whore and has a child, that child is deformed as a reminder to all that see the bastard that his mother was a slut.

[LocusSolace]

Re: Hi All

Hello all, my wife has convinced me to let you know I am not a figment of imagination. I hope that this will become a source of dialog for a few of you and open a discourse of productive conversation. My name is Jay and I look forward to chatting with some of you in the future.

[LocusSolace]

Re: Hi All

Welcome friend!
Could you put your husband on? I really have a hard time following the comments made by empty headed women, no offense of course. I am sure you are very smart, being you are taking home economics classes so you learn things like not answering the iron when the phone rings. My own wife, Mrs. Hutchins was a slow learner (she probably still is, who can tell, right?) Both her ears, flat as pancakes and just as wide.
Tell me all about your husband and your sons!

I'm pretty sure that my husband would actually be less pleasant to talk to than I am, he doesn't tend to have the patience I do, for interacting with Baptists. But if it will make you feel better, I will demand that he comes on and even hit him of he doesn't say hi. Maybe I can even rebuke him in public if he doesn't want to say hi And don't worry, I never took a home economics class, and common sense says that the iron is not a phone.

We met in college (we were both psychology majors , philosophy minors, and both have a interest in comparative religions classes). We're both interested in martial arts. I taught him how to use a sword and how to shoot a bow and arrow, and he taught me how to shoot a gun and fight with a bow staff.


As far as our son. He was very unexpected. We were both diagnosed as being infertile, and then he came along. And no we didn't use any treatments to become pregnant, his conception was completely natural. He's quite the smart little boy. He loves going up to people and giving them hugs. He's especially fond of going up to people that are sad and telling him that he loves them.

[James Hutchins]

Re: Hi All

Welcome friend!
Could you put your husband on? I really have a hard time following the comments made by empty headed women, no offense of course. I am sure you are very smart, being you are taking home economics classes so you learn things like not answering the iron when the phone rings. My own wife, Mrs. Hutchins was a slow learner (she probably still is, who can tell, right?) Both her ears, flat as pancakes and just as wide.
Tell me all about your husband and your sons!

[LocusSolace]

Re: Hi All

[I agree with you that their beliefs are odd, which I suppose is natural for recently fabricated religions. My answer would be, give them some time, most religions in early stages looked pretty innocent.]


I have thought of that as well. The nice thing about those two is that they push a person into really looking at things. As for how long they will stay that way, I don't know.

[I actually thought about that, having some discussions with Marxists and cultural neoevolutionists who see everything as driven by class/resource struggle. I agree that these down-to-earth causes of conflicts are often correct. However, in my view, wars might be started because of economic reasons, but what drives actual people to enroll in the military and willingly die, and not throw their arms up at the first sight of the enemy, is always some sort of belief: that we are superior, our political system is better, our "race" is better, we are defending our freedom, and last but not least - God is on our side. That last reason is present in most if not all conflicts. Even Stalin paired up with the Orthodox Church to protect "Mother Russia" when Nazis broke their agreement of splitting Europe in half between the two empires.] and [If you look closely especially at religious wars, you can find economic causes driving the elites to start them, but if soldiers didn't have the conviction that they were on the righteous and moral side of the conflict, none of these wars would do as much damage as they did.]


I agree with you there. I cringe every time I hear a group use that line, especially since everyone uses it.

[I agree with you there. As a child I used to firmly believe in God, but the more I read about history in general and history of religions in particular, the more doubtful I was. Sometimes I imagine that if there is a God, He is like a scientist in the lab, watching over his rats. He doesn't care about the rats, He just likes to observe their behavior, making them jump at each other throats. Would such a God even be worthy of our worship...?]



I believe that everything has to exist in a balance. Light/Dark, Good/Evil, Female/Male, and etc. The balance helps us appreciate what we do have, and shows us what we need to do to improve. As to what type of God/dess(s) exist, if they do exist, I don't know. I've read the philosophy debates pretty extensively. I know my spiritual beliefs don't match what I believed as a child. We were different people at that point.

[Why? So we can project what our own society at that particular time thinks what is good and wrong, to some eternal being? Please note that morality and ethics vary both in space and time, so we have no right to say that our religion's morality is right - because it is just the 21th century morality we're talking about.]


True enough, but science and spirituality give to very different ways of looking at something. It's sort of like that one quote on truth (I'm sorry, I can't cite this one), you can ask 100 people a question. All of their answers will have aspects of the truth, and the actual truth is someplace lost in the middle.

Science gives a much needed explanation of the how's, why's, and etc in the world, but it doesn't do a real good job at describing the human heart (or soul). Religion/Spirituality answers some questions but leaves a lot of others unanswered.

[Yes. I will be somewhat busy today, but I'll try to give you some references to read tonight.[/QUOTE]]


I look forward to hearing back from you. Have a great day.

[Basilissa]

Re: Hi All

And (Matthew 8:10-12), (Luke 17:17-19), (Mark 7:24-30), (Matthew 12:41), (Matthew 5:46-47) all contain examples of Christ either commending a non-believer for doing a good act or state the good acts of non-believers.

At the same time, Jesus also thought that foreigners/non-believers were dogs and to be treated like dogs:

Matthew 15:21-28
21 Then Jesus went thence, and departed into the coasts of Tyre and Sidon.
22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.
23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.
24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.
27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.
28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.


The same story is also in Mark 7:24-30. As you can see, Jesus was not always as nice as you think. The poor woman had to first whine a lot and endure being ignored, and then humiliate herself and accept being compared to dogs, before Jesus agreed to heal her daughter.

[Elmer G. White]

Re: Hi All

... These are all characteristics that the average person appreciates. Jesus has nothing against them, either...

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...=Matthew%205-7


I'm not generally much for sticking straight with the Bible to argue a point, but I found the Sermon on the Mount write-up to accurately reflect my argument. Since you all seem to stick pretty closely to Biblical literalism, the Sermon on the Mount blesses personality traits. It does not specifically say that they are exclusively Christian personality traits. And (Matthew 8:10-12), (Luke 17:17-19), (Mark 7:24-30), (Matthew 12:41), (Matthew 5:46-47) all contain examples of Christ either commending a non-believer for doing a good act or state the good acts of non-believers.

Dear Solace,

We obviously agree. Jesus appreciates niceties. However, these characteristics have nothing to do with Salvation. A sinner who Repents during the last breath of his life and accepts Jesus has a place in Heaven despite all the crimes and character flaws. Jesus Himself enforced this rule when He invited one of the crucified malefactors to ascend to Heaven on the Cross. This person was a convicted criminal and, based on James 2:10, he was a thief, a rapist, a sodomite, etc.

Luke 23:43
And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

A disgusting criminal but he had Faith and Repented. All the bad deeds were washed away. A nice person can also have Faith and Repent. All the good deeds are washed away. The malefactor was equal to the nice people. His victims did not believe and they were condemned. Nice things are nice. Salvation ignores them. Read Exodus 3:14 for more information.


Yours in Christ,

Elmer

[LocusSolace]

Re: Hi All

Dear Solace,

If we construct our own definitions of "good people", then it is quite realistic that we would arrive at the same conclusion as you do. Charity, compassion, tolerance: These are all characteristics that the average person appreciates. Jesus has nothing against them, either. However, His definition of good encompasses not only WHAT is being done but also WHO does it. And, again by definition, a person who is an unbeliever, cannot perform anything that is good. This is dictated by Jesus and by the corrupted nature of the unbeliever.

Psalms 53:4
Every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy; there is none that doeth good, no, not one

The apparent goodness of these people is stained by the fact that their deeds are targeted at niceties in THIS world, which is irrelevant, as the only thing that matters is Infinity, Eternal Life. And as the lack of faith (John 3:18) is the principal cause of damnation, any deed that does not promote True Faith™ is partially responsible for lost souls.

True ignorance is to construct ethical systems that fail to take into account the fact that good and evil have been pre-determined by God. He decides what is good, and good people do not include unbelievers.


Yours in Christ,

Elmer

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%205-7

I'm not generally much for sticking straight with the Bible to argue a point, but I found the Sermon on the Mount write-up to accurately reflect my argument. Since you all seem to stick pretty closely to Biblical literalism, the Sermon on the Mount blesses personality traits. It does not specifically say that they are exclusively Christian personality traits. And (Matthew 8:10-12), (Luke 17:17-19), (Mark 7:24-30), (Matthew 12:41), (Matthew 5:46-47) all contain examples of Christ either commending a non-believer for doing a good act or state the good acts of non-believers.

[Dolores de Barriga]

Re: Hi All

Hi. Can you tell me how to quote different lines, so I'm not quoting the whole response?

Break up quoted post ending whichever part you're responding to with [/quote]

And do not forget to insert [quote] at the beginning of the new quoted chunk. Please note that here I had to change the color of part of the word to avoid my own text looking like quoted. If you want to go really fancy, you can copy the entire [quote=name;post number] sequence.

Thank you for your answers, I love them. I may not always agree, but they give me much to consider.

I am glad that you do not always agree. I am not creating a new religion which would require followers to blindly accept my words.

There are 2 other broad category groups that I know of, that don't judge right/wrong of a belief. Spirit Scientists (yea I know eye roll) and Wiccans. The Spirit Science philosophy is basically that a individual person is where s/he need to be for a particular group of life lessons. Wicca takes a similar stand point. Yes I know, and I'd agree, that they both have some otherwise odd beliefs; but I've found them helpful.

I agree with you that their beliefs are odd, which I suppose is natural for recently fabricated religions. My answer would be, give them some time, most religions in early stages looked pretty innocent.

I understand you point about the different religious wars. My only question there is were the wars conducted because of religion? or using religion as an excuse? It isn't right either way.

I actually thought about that, having some discussions with Marxists and cultural neoevolutionists who see everything as driven by class/resource struggle. I agree that these down-to-earth causes of conflicts are often correct. However, in my view, wars might be started because of economic reasons, but what drives actual people to enroll in the military and willingly die, and not throw their arms up at the first sight of the enemy, is always some sort of belief: that we are superior, our political system is better, our "race" is better, we are defending our freedom, and last but not least - God is on our side. That last reason is present in most if not all conflicts. Even Stalin paired up with the Orthodox Church to protect "Mother Russia" when Nazis broke their agreement of splitting Europe in half between the two empires.

If you look closely especially at religious wars, you can find economic causes driving the elites to start them, but if soldiers didn't have the conviction that they were on the righteous and moral side of the conflict, none of these wars would do as much damage as they did.

Issuing a do not kill commandment, could have been someone's way to try to achieve some sort of order in a society, and based on that there would not have been any supernatural influence. Truthfully I don't know.

I agree with you there. As a child I used to firmly believe in God, but the more I read about history in general and history of religions in particular, the more doubtful I was. Sometimes I imagine that if there is a God, He is like a scientist in the lab, watching over his rats. He doesn't care about the rats, He just likes to observe their behavior, making them jump at each other throats.

Would such a God even be worthy of our worship...?

I truly believe that religion/spirituality has to go hand in hand with science.

Why? So we can project what our own society at that particular time thinks what is good and wrong, to some eternal being? Please note that morality and ethics vary both in space and time, so we have no right to say that our religion's morality is right - because it is just the 21th century morality we're talking about.

I seek out people with very diverse beliefs. I have a lot of friends that are atheists as well. I find the difference in viewpoints to be enlightening and quite helpful.

I agree that beauty of humanity lies in its diversity.

I look forward to your response. I hope your enjoying talking to me as much as I'm enjoying talking to you.

Yes. I will be somewhat busy today, but I'll try to give you some references to read tonight.

[Elmer G. White]

Re: Hi All

Yes I have seen a Bible, we actually own a few. And honestly 'those scumbags' are actually very good people.

Dear Solace,

If we construct our own definitions of "good people", then it is quite realistic that we would arrive at the same conclusion as you do. Charity, compassion, tolerance: These are all characteristics that the average person appreciates. Jesus has nothing against them, either. However, His definition of good encompasses not only WHAT is being done but also WHO does it. And, again by definition, a person who is an unbeliever, cannot perform anything that is good. This is dictated by Jesus and by the corrupted nature of the unbeliever.

Psalms 53:4
Every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy; there is none that doeth good, no, not one

The apparent goodness of these people is stained by the fact that their deeds are targeted at niceties in THIS world, which is irrelevant, as the only thing that matters is Infinity, Eternal Life. And as the lack of faith (John 3:18) is the principal cause of damnation, any deed that does not promote True Faith™ is partially responsible for lost souls.

True ignorance is to construct ethical systems that fail to take into account the fact that good and evil have been pre-determined by God. He decides what is good, and good people do not include unbelievers.


Yours in Christ,

Elmer

[LocusSolace]

Re: Hi All

Good grief, have you even SEEN a Bible???



(Amos 3:3) "Can two walk together, except they be agreed?"

By associating with Jesus-haters you are implicitly sanctioning their depravities.



(2 Corinthians 6:14) "Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?"

Get those scumbags out of your life NOW before they ruin your afterlife FOREVER!!!



Yours in Christ,

Zech

Yes I have seen a Bible, we actually own a few. And honestly 'those scumbags' are actually very good people.

[Zechariah Smyth]

Re: Hi All

blah blah blah witchcraft stuff blah blah blah I have a lot of friends that (sic) are atheists as well.blah blah blah something about lesbianism blah blah blah

Good grief, have you even SEEN a Bible???



(Amos 3:3) "Can two walk together, except they be agreed?"

By associating with Jesus-haters you are implicitly sanctioning their depravities.



(2 Corinthians 6:14) "Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?"

Get those scumbags out of your life NOW before they ruin your afterlife FOREVER!!!



Yours in Christ,

Zech

[LocusSolace]

Re: Hi All

Believing in a certain religion takes as the basic assumption that "we're right, they're wrong." The only religion that allows more leeway is the Baha'i religion, but even they tell you that all roads lead to God, but their way is the best way.

People may feel like they want, the question is whether what they think is logical. In order for any religion to attract followers, all other religions have to be inferior. When you get out of a religion into the "spirituality" it gets even worse, as people's beliefs very often contradict each other - hence, either one is true and the others are false, or all of them are equally false.

To give an example, it is impossible that all creation stories of all religions/belief systems are true. So, is only one of them true (Landover Baptist would say that the Biblical account would be the true one), or are all of them equally false?

I didn't realize that Marvin Harris' ideas have permeated to the general public. Too bad that the critiques of that overly materialistic point of view haven't followed. If you hang on I will review my notes and give you some references on this subject. For now, trust me that these cultural prohibitions aren't as grounded in reasonable explanations as you think they are.

I don't know, how many do? (Disregarding cultures which mutually influenced each other, and cultures forcefully influenced by European colonialism).

I'm not aware of the existence of Native American 10 Commandments, but I would assume that any similarities are the effect of European colonialism (most of what today constitutes Native American beliefs is in fact a post-colonial construct).

And the one most often broken by deeply religious people -- just look at the history of religious wars.

And here is where the universalism ends and particularities of each culture begin.

Why?

Think of early hominins.

The only clear thing from our early ancestors' point of view is survival of your immediate family (defined as people who are helpful in raising of your offspring) -- which may sometimes depend on killing other members of your species.

Some basic similarities between human cultures can be explained in terms of survival. More complex ones in terms of culture contact. Really, nothing supernatural about it.

I hope you will like my answers. Remind me to give you some references on the non-rational basis for cultural prohibitions. I will have more time tomorrow.

Hi. Can you tell me how to quote different lines, so I'm not quoting the whole response? Thank you for your answers, I love them. I may not always agree, but they give me much to consider.


There are 2 other broad category groups that I know of, that don't judge right/wrong of a belief. Spirit Scientists (yea I know eye roll) and Wiccans. The Spirit Science philosophy is basically that a individual person is where s/he need to be for a particular group of life lessons. Wicca takes a similar stand point. Yes I know, and I'd agree, that they both have some otherwise odd beliefs; but I've found them helpful.



I understand you point about the different religious wars. My only question there is were the wars conducted because of religion? or using religion as an excuse? It isn't right either way.


Issuing a do not kill commandment, could have been someone's way to try to achieve some sort of order in a society, and based on that there would not have been any supernatural influence. Truthfully I don't know.


I truly believe that religion/spirituality has to go hand in hand with science. Sort of the IDIC (infinite diversity in infinite combinations) concept from Star Trek.


I seek out people with very diverse beliefs. I have a lot of friends that are atheists as well. I find the difference in viewpoints to be enlightening and quite helpful.


I look forward to your response. I hope your enjoying talking to me as much as I'm enjoying talking to you.

[Dolores de Barriga]

Re: Hi All

Not all religious people (or at least people of faith) will tell you that they are right and everyone else is wrong.

Believing in a certain religion takes as the basic assumption that "we're right, they're wrong." The only religion that allows more leeway is the Baha'i religion, but even they tell you that all roads lead to God, but their way is the best way.

I understand, I ran into that fairly early on. then with a little more searching and trying to understand religion/spirituality, I started seeing that not everyone felt that way.

People may feel like they want, the question is whether what they think is logical. In order for any religion to attract followers, all other religions have to be inferior. When you get out of a religion into the "spirituality" it gets even worse, as people's beliefs very often contradict each other - hence, either one is true and the others are false, or all of them are equally false.

To give an example, it is impossible that all creation stories of all religions/belief systems are true. So, is only one of them true (Landover Baptist would say that the Biblical account would be the true one), or are all of them equally false?

Many of the differences in religious/spiritual law can be explained by looking at the culture and where the group lived. Take the Jewish and Muslim prohibition against pig meat, raising pigs in a desert environment would have been a tremendous waste of resources. Or take the Hindu prohibition against killing their cows, a cow can produce milk until it dies.

I didn't realize that Marvin Harris' ideas have permeated to the general public. Too bad that the critiques of that overly materialistic point of view haven't followed. If you hang on I will review my notes and give you some references on this subject. For now, trust me that these cultural prohibitions aren't as grounded in reasonable explanations as you think they are.

So yes the Bible and other religious texts are part a historical record of that culture. However look how many religions have different variations of the Golden Rule.

I don't know, how many do? (Disregarding cultures which mutually influenced each other, and cultures forcefully influenced by European colonialism).

Look at the 10 Commandments and compare it to the 10 Commandments that the Native Americans have, you'll find that they are very similar.

I'm not aware of the existence of Native American 10 Commandments, but I would assume that any similarities are the effect of European colonialism (most of what today constitutes Native American beliefs is in fact a post-colonial construct).

Humanity has a lot of flaws. Take a commandment like do not kill as an example. That commandment is pretty common across the religious/spiritual beliefs.

And the one most often broken by deeply religious people -- just look at the history of religious wars.

First you need to decide if killing and allowing to die are basically the same. Then you need to decide which groups actually count as people.

And here is where the universalism ends and particularities of each culture begin.

The Bible in the historical sense is pretty clear that there are certain groups of people that deserve to be killed. Other religions are quite a bit less clear. The big question there is whose mistake/misinterpretation? The commandment not to kill should actually be pretty straight forward.

Why?

Think of early hominins.

The only clear thing from our early ancestors' point of view is survival of your immediate family (defined as people who are helpful in raising of your offspring) -- which may sometimes depend on killing other members of your species.

Some basic similarities between human cultures can be explained in terms of survival. More complex ones in terms of culture contact. Really, nothing supernatural about it.

Thank you though, those were some pretty good questions

I hope you will like my answers. Remind me to give you some references on the non-rational basis for cultural prohibitions. I will have more time tomorrow.

[LocusSolace]

Re: Hi All

Ew! Get a room, you two.

Did I completely miss the pick up line here?