[Mary Etheldreda]

Re: Hi All

Then can we agree on a level of sadism and masochism?

Ew! Get a room, you two.

[LocusSolace]

Re: Hi All

Fun thought exercise: how would a masochist and a sadist observe the Golden Rule between themselves?



Your source for these "10 Native Commandments"? I expect something that predates the arrival of non-natives, or it is meaningless due to cultural contamination (I couldn't find anything that even predates the internet).

That's actually a pretty cool exercise, thanks. First thing t look at would be consent. Then can we agree on a level of sadism and masochism? Are we talking about the light consensual type of sado-masochism or are we talking about the level that could potentially do serious harm or kill someone? Not trying to nitpick, just making sure that we are talking about the same thing. I had to study some of the Hopi and Southwestern tribe mythology to get any understanding of their myths and standards of ethics, but you're right it is hard to work around the cultural contamination. I'm currently trying to get permission to speak with some of the local tribes in my area, but I haven't heard anything yet. I will try to dig out some of my comparative religion textbooks though, it might be interesting to go through some of that with you. Love the insight and the questions by the way. I actually really do appreciate it. Have you seen the some of the philosophy games online. I'll attach the link. You might enjoy going through them, I know I did.

http://www.philosophersmag.com/index.php/games

[Didymus Much]

Re: Hi All

...However look how many religions have different variations of the Golden Rule...

Fun thought exercise: how would a masochist and a sadist observe the Golden Rule between themselves?

...Look at the 10 Commandments and compare it to the 10 Commandments that the Native Americans have, you'll find that they are very similar...

Your source for these "10 Native Commandments"? I expect something that predates the arrival of non-natives, or it is meaningless due to cultural contamination (I couldn't find anything that even predates the internet).

[LocusSolace]

Re: Hi All

Thank you. I still struggle with my faith, but seeing your faith makes me want to keep trying to believe in God who actually cares. At least you have an actual body of proof in the form of the Holy Bible, something that Locus doesn't have at all.

You're right, I don't have a book for proof, BUT that doesn't mean that I don't have any sort of basis for my particular faith.

[LocusSolace]

Re: Hi All

Very poetic comparison. Nevertheless, the problem with is that an important part of how a person sees God, is what this person thinks that God wants them to do. A very brief survey of world religions and their multiple denominations will show you very different practices, such as:

1) Dietary restrictions: eating meat or not, eating specific kinds of meat, etc.
2) Treatment of human body: circumcision, female genital mutilation, tattooing, wearing jewelry, having long hair or shaving it, wearing clothes or not, wearing certain types of clothes only, etc, etc.
3) Mating behaviors, such as monogamy, serial monogamy, polygyny, polyandry, group marriage; also related, whom can you marry and whom you cannot, degree of relationship allowed, minimum age for marriage and its consummation, use of contraception, etc.
4) Attitudes towards killing, such as abortion, capital punishment, participation in wars.

I could make an endless list of such contrasting behaviors. All religious people will tell you that their particular point of view is the correct one and everybody else is wrong. They believe that God in fact allows them to do things which are seen as immoral behavior by other religions, and vice versa. Moreover, if you look at history of religions, attitudes and beliefs change over time, so it's not like beliefs of a certain religious group are set in stone.

If there is only one God who looks benevolently at people of all religions, then how come He allows all these contradictory behaviors?

Or maybe it means that He doesn't care what we believe in and what atrocities we commit in His name? Wouldn't that make Him unworthy of our worship, though?...

Not all religious people (or at least people of faith) will tell you that they are right and everyone else is wrong. I understand, I ran into that fairly early on. then with a little more searching and trying to understand religion/spirituality, I started seeing that not everyone felt that way. Many of the differences in religious/spiritual law can be explained by looking at the culture and where the group lived. Take the Jewish and Muslim prohibition against pig meat, raising pigs in a desert environment would have been a tremendous waste of resources. Or take the Hindu prohibition against killing their cows, a cow can produce milk until it dies.
So yes the Bible and other religious texts are part a historical record of that culture. However look how many religions have different variations of the Golden Rule. Look at the 10 Commandments and compare it to the 10 Commandments that the Native Americans have, you'll find that they are very similar.
Humanity has a lot of flaws. Take a commandment like do not kill as an example. That commandment is pretty common across the religious/spiritual beliefs. First you need to decide if killing and allowing to die are basically the same. Then you need to decide which groups actually count as people. The Bible in the historical sense is pretty clear that there are certain groups of people that deserve to be killed. Other religions are quite a bit less clear. The big question there is whose mistake/misinterpretation? The commandment not to kill should actually be pretty straight forward.
Thank you though, those were some pretty good questions

[LocusSolace]

Re: Hi All

Well, the LORD does call us to Righteousness (Romans 10:4), not morality.



Check your Bible. The word "moral" isn't anywhere in its pages.

That means that even when heathens think we are being harsh or immoral, their opinions are irrelevant. It is all foolishness to them anyway, so who cares what they think (1 Corinthians 1:18)?

The word moral might not be in the Bible, but you can't be righteous without being moral (check your definitions)

[Dolores de Barriga]

Re: Hi All

Well, the LORD does call us to Righteousness (Romans 10:4), not morality.



Check your Bible. The word "moral" isn't anywhere in its pages.

That means that even when heathens think we are being harsh or immoral, their opinions are irrelevant. It is all foolishness to them anyway, so who cares what they think (1 Corinthians 1:18)?

Thank you. I still struggle with my faith, but seeing your faith makes me want to keep trying to believe in God who actually cares. At least you have an actual body of proof in the form of the Holy Bible, something that Locus doesn't have at all.

[Mary Etheldreda]

Re: Hi All

God either is or isn't all. If he is all, then that theory is correct. If he isn't all, then maybe you have been mistaken. And I add things to my beliefs, I don't change things every time I find something new.

This is the heresy of modernism, dear, the belief that Truth™ can evolve to incorporate new ideas, new philosophies, and information unknown at the time the Holy Bible was written. Nowhere will you find God identify Himself as whatever an individual imagines Him to be. In the over 900 names and titles of the LORD, you will not find one that suggests His Holy Nature conflicts with Itself to appease the imagination of sinners desperate enough to fantasize about an Invisible Friend, cowardly enough to deny the One True God.

[Dolores de Barriga]

Re: Hi All

Hi, I don't believe that everybody else is wrong. Of God is all, then everyone's views are included into that. Have you ever heard the stained glass window description of God? Basically God is the white light behind a stained glass window. Different people see God through whatever color belongs to their beliefs, but they are all seeing the same God.

Very poetic comparison. Nevertheless, the problem with is that an important part of how a person sees God, is what this person thinks that God wants them to do. A very brief survey of world religions and their multiple denominations will show you very different practices, such as:

1) Dietary restrictions: eating meat or not, eating specific kinds of meat, etc.
2) Treatment of human body: circumcision, female genital mutilation, tattooing, wearing jewelry, having long hair or shaving it, wearing clothes or not, wearing certain types of clothes only, etc, etc.
3) Mating behaviors, such as monogamy, serial monogamy, polygyny, polyandry, group marriage; also related, whom can you marry and whom you cannot, degree of relationship allowed, minimum age for marriage and its consummation, use of contraception, etc.
4) Attitudes towards killing, such as abortion, capital punishment, participation in wars.

I could make an endless list of such contrasting behaviors. All religious people will tell you that their particular point of view is the correct one and everybody else is wrong. They believe that God in fact allows them to do things which are seen as immoral behavior by other religions, and vice versa. Moreover, if you look at history of religions, attitudes and beliefs change over time, so it's not like beliefs of a certain religious group are set in stone.

If there is only one God who looks benevolently at people of all religions, then how come He allows all these contradictory behaviors?

Or maybe it means that He doesn't care what we believe in and what atrocities we commit in His name? Wouldn't that make Him unworthy of our worship, though?...

[LocusSolace]

Re: Hi All

Good for you. I'm sure Didymus couldn't sleep until the two of you made up.



But really, this just shows the foolishness of your argument. Your "Stained Glass Jesus" is impossible to reconcile with reality, and that makes it absurd. Look, either Jesus is who He says He is, or He is who people like you say He is. As He doesn't agree with you, and you can't both be right, who do you think is more likely to be mistaken? God, who is Perfect and never makes a mistake, or you, the person who changes her mind whenever new information is presented?

God either is or isn't all. If he is all, then that theory is correct. If he isn't all, then maybe you have been mistaken. And I add things to my beliefs, I don't change things every time I find something new.

[Mary Etheldreda]

Re: Hi All

I've already given an apology there.

Good for you. I'm sure Didymus couldn't sleep until the two of you made up.



But really, this just shows the foolishness of your argument. Your "Stained Glass Jesus" is impossible to reconcile with reality, and that makes it absurd. Look, either Jesus is who He says He is, or He is who people like you say He is. As He doesn't agree with you, and you can't both be right, who do you think is more likely to be mistaken? God, who is Perfect and never makes a mistake, or you, the person who changes her mind whenever new information is presented?

[Mary Etheldreda]

Re: Hi All

This is what I really appreciate about Landover Baptists. You might find some of their views to be somewhat harsh, but at least they are honest: they accept the Holy Bible as the only source of knowledge about God, and they stick to it, without disregarding parts that seem cruel or even immoral.

Well, the LORD does call us to Righteousness (Romans 10:4), not morality.



Check your Bible. The word "moral" isn't anywhere in its pages.

That means that even when heathens think we are being harsh or immoral, their opinions are irrelevant. It is all foolishness to them anyway, so who cares what they think (1 Corinthians 1:18)?

[LocusSolace]

Re: Hi All

Hello, Karen! I find your decision-making process, what to believe in and what to discard, particularly fascinating. Basically, you start with some preconceived notions and then you accept bits and pieces of sacred texts that agree with your position, and disregard the rest.

The problem I see with this position, is its extreme subjectivity. Your preconceived notions are by definition different from the preconceived notions of the next person. Sure, there will be some overlap with people of the same culture, gender, age group, education, and socioeconomic status, but ultimately, your point of view was forged by your individual life experiences.

However, if everybody has different ideas about God, doesn't that cancel them all as false? What makes you think that your particular view is correct and everybody else is wrong?

This is what I really appreciate about Landover Baptists. You might find some of their views to be somewhat harsh, but at least they are honest: they accept the Holy Bible as the only source of knowledge about God, and they stick to it, without disregarding parts that seem cruel or even immoral.

Hi, I don't believe that everybody else is wrong. Of God is all, then everyone's views are included into that. Have you ever heard the stained glass window description of God? Basically God is the white light behind a stained glass window. Different people see God through whatever color belongs to their beliefs, but they are all seeing the same God.

[LocusSolace]

Re: Hi All

Without the trustworthy reference of the Holy Bible, you have only your own perceptions upon which to draw conclusions about what is wise. Then you go and get offended and argue with the one poster who agrees with you. Your "wisdom" certainly is entertaining to the rest of us.

I've already given an apology there.

[Dolores de Barriga]

Re: Hi All

I've read through different parts. It's always mystified me why people look towards a book, or a building, to find God, when they should be looking outwards to the world. Closer to what you would find in the Gospel of Thomas or Epiphanius. And you're right I got your argument (statement of what the Bible says) mixed up with actual belief. Generally speaking I'm a seeker of wisdom. When and where I find it, I add it to what I believe.

Hello, Karen! I find your decision-making process, what to believe in and what to discard, particularly fascinating. Basically, you start with some preconceived notions and then you accept bits and pieces of sacred texts that agree with your position, and disregard the rest.

The problem I see with this position, is its extreme subjectivity. Your preconceived notions are by definition different from the preconceived notions of the next person. Sure, there will be some overlap with people of the same culture, gender, age group, education, and socioeconomic status, but ultimately, your point of view was forged by your individual life experiences.

However, if everybody has different ideas about God, doesn't that cancel them all as false? What makes you think that your particular view is correct and everybody else is wrong?

This is what I really appreciate about Landover Baptists. You might find some of their views to be somewhat harsh, but at least they are honest: they accept the Holy Bible as the only source of knowledge about God, and they stick to it, without disregarding parts that seem cruel or even immoral.