[SalvationSeeker]

Re: Um, Hello.

Really, how mand people lived in The Americas, Austrilla, China, Japan, Russia, and Africa during his life, but never heard hisgosple because i did not reach them.

BECAUSE YOU DID NOT REACH THEM?
I can't believe I'm reading this!
This homer has made himself a god!

According to you, they would be condemed, even though they had not converted. If thats not hypocriticl, then its very irrisponsble of god to let so many soul that he made be condemed to hell, unless the "Believers only" line is pure bunk.

No.
According to GOD, they would be condemned. (John 14:6) I simply agree with God.
Are you calling the Word of God "bunk"?
Do you believe, that with your flawed human morality and logic, that you could pass judgement on HIM?
You don't seem to fear the Lord as you should.

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life:
No man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
John 14:6

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge:
But fools despise wisdom and instruction.
Proverbs 1:7

Exactly, now, will you cange your ways?

I will not "cange" my ways.
I think I'll just stay on the narrow path, the way of God, the way that leads to Heaven.
Instead of your broad path towards damnation and hell.

2 problems, 1, the Christian church was not yet established, so how could they be Christians, and 2, I thought you said that only Jews and Romans were in the croud...

1. Christians are not the Church, Christians are followers of Christ.
The clue for you is the name Christ.. As in JESUS Christ.

2. No, I said there were only two groups there, Romans and Jews.

To persecute someone, you must have authority over them.

Society has authority, and it opresses us because of our beliefs.
Yet you do not need authority to peresecute however, you're doing it RIGHT NOW.

I don't have any more authority over you then you do over me, but, I am in the minority. I have been much more polite than I usually am (And more then some may give me credit for) because I know that if you wished to, you could ask for me to be banned. While I don't mind being banned, I have other things I can do, I don't want to be.

No, your soul needs to be Saved!
So why should we ban you, we are not like you, we will try to save vile sinners, have them repent, and add them to the flock...
Instead of shutting them out alltogether like you seem to favor.

I am hardly arguing weather god exists, I am aarguing weather his followers (You/me/other people) twist his words to their own wills. We both agree on that, but we accuse the other of doing so, leading us into a perfict circile

Friend, you said yourself that you don't care about the entire Bible.
Thus it is you who twists the word of God.
There is no circle here (nor could anyone but God make a perfect one) this is an obvious fact to anyone reading.

I may have problem with your views, but do I want to take away your rights, do I wish to have you killed for being what you are? No. But I can't exactly imagine that you would reciprocate

We only do what God commands us.
Nothing more, and nothing less.
This has nothing to do with our, or your, will.
It only has to do with the will of God Allmighty.

[Grinder]

Re: Um, Hello.

So letting them doom themselfs to hellfire by not warning them is not humane?
That is "not treating them as a human being"?

Really, how mand people lived in The Americas, Austrilla, China, Japan, Russia, and Africa during his life, but never heard hisgosple because i did not reach them. According to you, they would be condemed, even though they had not converted. If thats not hypocriticl, then its very irrisponsble of god to let so many soul that he made be condemed to hell, unless the "Believers only" line is pure bunk.

You WILL go to hell unless you repent of your sins and accepts Jesus.

Exactly, now, will you cange your ways?

If they believed in Jesus, they weren't jews, they were Christians.
That's should be pretty obvious.

2 problems, 1, the Christian church was not yet established, so how could they be Christians, and 2, I thought you said that only Jews and Romans were in the croud...

As I said, thank you for persecuting me.
I will turn the other cheek as you further show your true nature;
Prideful and angry.

To persecute someone, you must have authority over them. I don't have any more authority over you then you do over me, but, I am in the minority. I have been much more polite than I usually am (And more then some may give me credit for) because I know that if you wished to, you could ask for me to be banned. While I don't mind being banned, I have other things I can do, I don't want to be.

And God can be found in the Holy Bible, I couldn't make Him up even if I wanted to.
And why would I need to? He already exists, and has existed alot longer than any of us.

I am hardly arguing weather god exists, I am aarguing weather his followers (You/me/other people) twist his words to their own wills. We both agree on that, but we accuse the other of doing so, leading us into a perfict circile

Also, I thought you said you were tolerant, but you're obviously not very tolerant of us?
Those who agree with God rather than you?
But then, it's always like that with you who'm, unknowingly, worship the devil, is it not?..
You are too lost in his lies to see your own hypocrisy, your hatred.

I may have problem with your views, but do I want to take away your rights, do I wish to have you killed for being what you are? No. But I can't exactly imagine that you would reciprocate

[SalvationSeeker]

Re: Um, Hello.

Good luck with believeing the things you tell yourself.

I do not need any luck to believe what I believe, or rather:
To know what I already know.

Its good to know that treating others who don't share every one of your beliefs like a human being is now "PC"

So letting them doom themselfs to hellfire by not warning them is not humane?
That is "not treating them as a human being"?

You WILL go to hell unless you repent of your sins and accepts Jesus.

Yet, there must have been jews who belived in Jesus in the crowd, or else we whould have nothing in the bible about his death.

If they believed in Jesus, they weren't jews, they were Christians.
That's should be pretty obvious.

And your god seems to be a fabrication of your desire to feel superior to others.

As I said, thank you for persecuting me.
I will turn the other cheek as you further show your true nature;
Prideful and angry.

And God can be found in the Holy Bible, I couldn't make Him up even if I wanted to.
And why would I need to? He already exists, and has existed alot longer than any of us.

Also, I thought you said you were tolerant, but you're obviously not very tolerant of us?
Those who agree with God rather than you?
But then, it's always like that with you who'm, unknowingly, worship the devil, is it not?..
You are too lost in his lies to see your own hypocrisy, your hatred.

[Grinder]

Re: Um, Hello.

Good luck with what?
Are you saying you don't hate yourself?

Good luck with believeing the things you tell yourself.

With your politically corrected views, I'm sure you're having a really hard time.

Its good to know that treating others who don't share every one of your beliefs like a human being is now "PC"

It's not a question of numbers of joos.
SOMEONE persecute Jesus and killed Him, and there were only two groups there. Joos and Romans.
And as you can see, the Romans didn't want do it.
So, who then, did it?

Yet, there must have been jews who belived in Jesus in the crowd, or else we whould have nothing in the bible about his death.

Your god is false, a construction of your own desires.

And your god seems to be a fabrication of your desire to feel superior to others.

[SalvationSeeker]

Re: Um, Hello.

Well then, good luck with that.

Good luck with what?
Are you saying you don't hate yourself?

Yeah, I can relate to that.

Right..
With your politically corrected views, I'm sure you're having a really hard time.

The minute you can prove to me that every Jew in the world stood in that crowd and called for Jesus's death, I will believe you.

It's not a question of numbers of joos.
SOMEONE persecute Jesus and killed Him, and there were only two groups there. Joos and Romans.
And as you can see, the Romans didn't want do it.
So, who then, did it?

There is only one answer and the Bible gives it: The jews.
Face facts friend, the joos are God's people no longer.
They have rejected Jesus and so they're going to hell:

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life:
No man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
John 14:6

I am glad your dogmatic god feels that way, however, mine dose not.

Your god is false, a construction of your own desires.
We care not for your opinons, nor the "opinon" of your fantasy god.
We only care for the opinon of the true God, the one the Holy Bible, His Holy Word, witnesses about, the one we follow.

[Grinder]

Re: Um, Hello.

Friend, I do not thump my chest.
Nor do I pride myself, I hate myself and I do not feel that I even deserve God's grace.
I only get it because I do His will.

You seem to have a problem with letting go of your pride, so instead you throw out these baseless insults.
Jesus will bless me for it.

Well then, good luck with that.

Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Matthew 5:11

Yeah, I can relate to that.

I see you have not been reading your Bible.
The jews are to blame, and as they swore that Jesus blood would be on them, and on their children, so it shall be.

When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it. Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.
Matthew 27:24-25

And being a jew is a BELIEF, Jesus was not a jew.
He was the Son of God, and God Himself.

The minute you can prove to me that every Jew in the world stood in that crowd and called for Jesus's death, I will believe you.

God will judge you just as He says He will in His Word -- just because you judge like a pansy doesn't mean Jesus will judge you like a pansy!

I am glad your dogmatic god feels that way, however, mine dose not.

[SalvationSeeker]

Re: Um, Hello.

God will judge you just as He says He will in His Word -- just because you judge like a pansy doesn't mean Jesus will judge you like a pansy!

Praise Jesus, brother!
You are very correct; Jesus will judge Him according to His works.
And I doubt Jesus will be merciful with him.
The lack of humility this Grinder is showing is certainly to land him in hell, lest he repents of course.

And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened:
And another book was opened, which is the book of life:
And the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Revelation 20:12

[Dr. Ernest C. Ville, D.C.S.]

Re: Um, Hello.

Then we must judge other he way we wish to be judged, and I don't want to be judged harshly, thats why I try to not get upset with others over something.

God will judge you just as He says He will in His Word -- just because you judge like a pansy doesn't mean Jesus will judge you like a pansy!

[SalvationSeeker]

Re: Um, Hello.

Yet, you seem to feel superior to me, that is neither humbleness, nor righteousness. They hypocrites in the parable belive themselves to be better, because they are, by the looseist of definitions, doing god's word. You may thump your chest, and think that god will reward you, but the "Respect" you get from these other forum goes is all that you will recive.

Friend, I do not thump my chest.
Nor do I pride myself, I hate myself and I do not feel that I even deserve God's grace.
I only get it because I do His will.

You seem to have a problem with letting go of your pride, so instead you throw out these baseless insults.
Jesus will bless me for it.

Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Matthew 5:11

Then we must judge other he way we wish to be judged, and I don't want to be judged harshly, thats why I try to not get upset with others over something.

No, I wish to be judged by the meters I judge others with because they are fair and God-approved.
I only judge after what the Lord says in the Holy Bible.
So I have no problem with being judged after the Holy commandments of the Lord Jesus Christ.

I have not broken them.

I love the revisionist view on history. It matters little that Jesus was a Jew, it matters little that it was absolute faith in what the leaders of the church said that condemed Jesus. But responsibility is no fun, blaming the Jews and repeating past mistakes is!

I see you have not been reading your Bible.
The jews are to blame, and as they swore that Jesus blood would be on them, and on their children, so it shall be.

When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude,
Saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it. Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.
Matthew 27:24-25

And being a jew is a BELIEF, Jesus was not a jew.
He was the Son of God, and God Himself.

[Grinder]

Re: Um, Hello.

I pray in my closet and I do not do my alms for men to see them, so I do not see your point?

Yet, you seem to feel superior to me, that is neither humbleness, nor righteousness. They hypocrites in the parable belive themselves to be better, because they are, by the looseist of definitions, doing god's word. You may thump your chest, and think that god will reward you, but the "Respect" you get from these other forum goes is all that you will recive.

As you can see, Jesus isn't saying we may not judge at all. old
He is saying that we will be judged with the same meters we use, He will try us in the same way.

Then we must judge other he way we wish to be judged, and I don't want to be judged harshly, thats why I try to not get upset with others over something.

He didn't find any great faith in Israel, after all, the jews killed Him.

This passage may clear it up further, Jesus requires faith, yes.
But He also requires obedience, He will reward you according to your works.

I love the revisionist view on history. It matters little that Jesus was a Jew, it matters little that it was absolute faith in what the leaders of the church said that condemed Jesus. But responsibility is no fun, blaming the Jews and repeating past mistakes is!

[SalvationSeeker]

Re: Um, Hello.

I fell that the "Sermon on the Mount" is the best guide for what Jesus want from us as his followers, thus, many of my passages will come from it

Matthew 6:1 Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 6:5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

I follow these verses:
I pray in my closet and I do not do my alms for men to see them, so I do not see your point?

Matthew 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

It is always good to put verses into context!

For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged:
And with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
Matthew 7:2-5

As you can see, Jesus isn't saying we may not judge at all.
He is saying that we will be judged with the same meters we use, He will try us in the same way.

That last part that I underlined in this verse is of great importance because it shows this clearly, first when you are SIN-FREE, you may judge.
Not before, and unless you are sin-free, you will also be punished.
This may help you understand this further:

So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
John 8:7

JESUS DIDN'T SAY: "don't pass judgement on her at all".
He only deemed them unworthy to pass it, because they were not sin-free.

So how is it that we can judge then, you may say.
Because we have been made sinfree by abiding in Jesus!
Jesus blood has washed away our sins!

Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not:
Whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1 John 3:6

And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth.
Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father;
To him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
Revelation 1:5-6

Mathew 8:10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel. (This particular one shows that Jesus respects faith more than association)

This verse only says what it says:
He didn't find any great faith in Israel, after all, the jews killed Him.

This passage may clear it up further, Jesus requires faith, yes.
But He also requires obedience, He will reward you according to your works.

For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels;
And then he shall reward every man according to his works.
Matthew 16:27

Matthew 9:13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

So why do you not repent?
Jesus CLEARLY says here that some are sinners, yet you do not seem to acknowledge this.

For instance, homersexuals are sinners yet you do not acknowledge it.
It's the constant beam in your eye, friend.
You are not sin-free, you may pass no judgements on us.

Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
Matthew 7:5

This is the problem you will always have when you base your beliefs on a small piece of a whole..
Then you will never realise the truth, and your interpretation will be contradictonary.
Jesus never contradicts Himself, it's you who by twisting a small part of His words, has contradicted Him.

Praise Jesus.

[Grinder]

Re: Um, Hello.

I fell that the "Sermon on the Mount" is the best guide for what Jesus want from us as his followers, thus, many of my passages will come from it

Matthew 6:1 Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 6:5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

Matthew 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

Mathew 8:10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel. (This particular one shows that Jesus respects faith more than association)

Matthew 9:13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

[SalvationSeeker]

Re: Um, Hello.

Oops, I messed up the last part of my post.

Anywho, I did not proclaim myself to be wiser than God, just less dogmatic than some of his "True" followers. You see yourselves as his direct extensions, what you think and see, is what he thinks and sees.

That's is the very problem with you.. Not with us.

We don't do ANYTHING of our own accord.
We only obey His commandments to the letter.

Is the soldier who obeys his general prideful?
Is the child honouring his parents prideful?

Your world view is upside down, the very thing you do, applying YOUR thoughts to God's, is the very thing WE DON'T DO.
God, through scripture, commands us to do certain things, and so we do them.
Tell us of ANYTHING we do that God has not commanded, or stop these baseless accusations.

I know that I will never be anywhere close to perfect, And God knows that, he expects me to do 2 things, believe in him, and do my best at being the most positive, compassionate person I can be. I may not have the latter down, but I can take solace that I have the first.

How do you know that?
Chapter and verse please.
I can give chapter and verse for all of my beliefs, can you?

But let me tell you then, God expects you to follow His orders. Period.
If you don't you will not enter Heaven, He says so Himself:

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name?
And in thy name have cast out devils? And in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you:
Depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Matthew 7:22-23

Your faith alone cannot save you either!
The Lord require obedience, and He will judge you according to your works! (Revelation 20:12)

What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works?
Can faith save him?
James 2:14

For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
James 2:26

[Grinder]

Re: Um, Hello.

And you can well see what it got you, nothing, you only embarrased yourself by thinking yourself wise, even wiser than God infact.
satan will not have any problem ensnaring your soul if you act like this, humbling yourself before the Lord should be your first and foremost priorioty as of now.

Praise Jesus!

Oops, I messed up the last part of my post.

Anywho, I did not proclaim myself to be wiser than God, just less dogmatic than some of his "True" followers. You see yourselves as his direct extensions, what you think and see, is what he thinks and sees. That is more prideful than I could ever hope to be. I know that I will never be anywhere close to perfect, And God knows that, he expects me to do 2 things, believe in him, and do my best at being the most positive, compassionate person I can be. I may not have the latter down, but I can take solace that I have the first.

[SalvationSeeker]

Re: Um, Hello.

I was not responding with pride, I was responding to scarcasm with more scaracsm. Though you may not belive it, I am trying to save your soul too. I will admit that I am not responding as well as I should. Being double teamed dose that to me. But I reject things that are poor of spirt, and embrace the love that Jesus wanted to spread. Sadly, I don't often see it returned by "True Christians"

Once more:
As you admitted, you spread the ideas of your own heart!
The ideas of the god you have created in your mind!
You are NOT spreading Jesus ideas, but your own.
Jesus teachings are to be found in the Holy Bible, NOT IN YOUR HEAD.
YOU ARE NOT GOD.

Contrary to what you may belive, I am not actually keeping score. I said that, to show him something. It dose little good to say your right, then then do exactly what those whom you say are wrong do.

I doubt you do, but you would do well to humble yourself all the less.
Your logic was faulty, and you needed to know it was.
If you cannot handle the plain and simple truth, then you will not have an easy time here.

We are ALL about truth, Gods truth, we care little for the worlds opinons, as it is controlled by the devil.

We love not the world nor any wordly opinons you may have, we love God.
Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world.
If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
1 John 2:5