[MitzaLizalor]

Re: Only Sluts Get Raped! (1st Timothy 2:9)

Why would you be interested in that? Are you trying to seduce me? That is not very Christian of you, I suggest you stop nagging me, and dont ask questions about my private life and affairs

It was related to your earlier post. I'll see if I can find it . . . ...... .... . .. ..... . .

Oh, look .. .. here it is

Quote:
I'm sorry but those women are as ugly as the devil himself. Definitely not a rapist's primary target

So I was just curious, by what standard is ugliness attributed?

[LeAtheist]

Re: Only Sluts Get Raped! (1st Timothy 2:9)

Is there a Mrs LeAthaist?

Why would you be interested in that? Are you trying to seduce me? That is not very Christian of you, I suggest you stop nagging me, and dont ask questions about my private life and affairs

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: Only Sluts Get Raped! (1st Timothy 2:9)

I'm sorry but those women are as ugly as the devil himself. Definitely not a rapist's primary target

Is there a Mrs LeAtheist?

[LeAtheist]

Re: Only Sluts Get Raped! (1st Timothy 2:9)

This is how women dress today and then act all shocked when a man takes them up on their she-harlot invitation. I mean how blatant can they get. The women in this picture are just begging to be impregnated.

I'm sorry but those women are as ugly as the devil himself. Definitely not a rapist's primary target

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: Only Sluts Get Raped! (1st Timothy 2:9)

@ didymus. Ummm care to tell me where in North America this law is still enforced??

Freehold, Iowa.

[Dr Laurence Niles]

Re: Only Sluts Get Raped! (1st Timothy 2:9)

Do you even know how women get pregnant,if you did you would know rape is unconcentional sex its still sex just without constent so you women can still get pregnant from rape.

What rubbish! We know for a fact this is not the case; as Godly Todd Akin tells us.

"If it’s a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down".

We know this must be correct because he holds a Masters degree in Divinities, is on the Committee for Science, Space and Technology and is the personal friends of at least one doctor!

YIC

[MitzaLizalor]

CHERRY PICKING

So here is the whole passage: II Samuel 13:1-14 KJV. Tamar (the sister) was quite willing to have ownership transferred to Amnon (her brother) from King David (their father), whereupon Amnon could do as he pleased. God knows however that spontaneous hatred for wives may arise spontaneously at any moment and that is what was pencilled in for Tamar. Although she had not actually married her brother the circumstances for spontaneous wife hatred arising after any wedding were fulfilled according to Scripture:

SPONTANEOUS HATRED OF THE WIFE

DEUTERONOMY 22:13-21 If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her, And give occasions of speech against her, and bring up an evil name upon her, and say, I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found her not a maid: Then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel's virginity unto the elders of the city in the gate: And the damsel's father shall say unto the elders, I gave my daughter unto this man to wife, and he hateth her; And, lo, he hath given occasions of speech against her, saying, I found not thy daughter a maid; and yet these are the tokens of my daughter's virginity. And they shall spread the cloth before the elders of the city. And the elders of that city shall take that man and chastise him; And they shall amerce him in an hundred shekels of silver, and give them unto the father of the damsel, because he hath brought up an evil name upon a virgin of Israel: and she shall be his wife; he may not put her away all his days. But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you. KJV

And although we can see just how quickly such spontaneity in matters of hatred arise—and it didn't take very long after the episode did it? no it certainly did not she had not even left the room and in fact had to be thrown out—this is not about Tamar. This is about Absalom.

•

I am going to take a different approach and post the actual historical record here in two different colours with the bit about Tamar in coral and the real meat of the thing in firebrick red so that the relative importance of the characters may stand out clearly.

II SAMUEL 13 – 15 [God has just killed David's young son to punish David for murdering Uriah] And it came to pass after this, that Absalom the son of David had a fair sister, whose name was Tamar; and Amnon the son of David loved her. And Amnon was so vexed, that he fell sick for his sister Tamar; for she was a virgin; and Amnon thought it hard for him to do any thing to her. But Amnon had a friend, whose name was Jonadab, the son of Shimeah David's brother: and Jonadab was a very subtil man. And he said unto him, Why art thou, being the king's son, lean from day to day? wilt thou not tell me? And Amnon said unto him, I love Tamar, my brother Absalom's sister. And Jonadab said unto him, Lay thee down on thy bed, and make thyself sick: and when thy father cometh to see thee, say unto him, I pray thee, let my sister Tamar come, and give me meat, and dress the meat in my sight, that I may see it, and eat it at her hand. So Amnon lay down, and made himself sick: and when the king was come to see him, Amnon said unto the king, I pray thee, let Tamar my sister come, and make me a couple of cakes in my sight, that I may eat at her hand. Then David sent home to Tamar, saying, Go now to thy brother Amnon's house, and dress him meat. So Tamar went to her brother Amnon's house; and he was laid down. And she took flour, and kneaded it, and made cakes in his sight, and did bake the cakes. And she took a pan, and poured them out before him; but he refused to eat. And Amnon said, Have out all men from me. And they went out every man from him. And Amnon said unto Tamar, Bring the meat into the chamber, that I may eat of thine hand. And Tamar took the cakes which she had made, and brought them into the chamber to Amnon her brother. And when she had brought them unto him to eat, he took hold of her, and said unto her, Come lie with me, my sister. And she answered him, Nay, my brother, do not force me; for no such thing ought to be done in Israel: do not thou this folly. And I, whither shall I cause my shame to go? and as for thee, thou shalt be as one of the fools in Israel. Now therefore, I pray thee, speak unto the king; for he will not withhold me from thee. Howbeit he would not hearken unto her voice: but, being stronger than she, forced her, and lay with her. Then Amnon hated her exceedingly; so that the hatred wherewith he hated her was greater than the love wherewith he had loved her. And Amnon said unto her, Arise, be gone. And she said unto him, There is no cause: this evil in sending me away is greater than the other that thou didst unto me. But he would not hearken unto her. Then he called his servant that ministered unto him, and said, Put now this woman out from me, and bolt the door after her. And she had a garment of divers colours upon her: for with such robes were the king's daughters that were virgins apparelled. Then his servant brought her out, and bolted the door after her. And Tamar put ashes on her head, and rent her garment of divers colours that was on her, and laid her hand on her head, and went on crying. And Absalom her brother said unto her, Hath Amnon thy brother been with thee? but hold now thy peace, my sister: he is thy brother; regard not this thing. So Tamar remained desolate in her brother Absalom's house. But when king David heard of all these things, he was very wroth. And Absalom spake unto his brother Amnon neither good nor bad: for Absalom hated Amnon, because he had forced his sister Tamar. And it came to pass after two full years, that Absalom had sheepshearers in Baalhazor, which is beside Ephraim: and Absalom invited all the king's sons. And Absalom came to the king, and said, Behold now, thy servant hath sheepshearers; let the king, I beseech thee, and his servants go with thy servant. And the king said to Absalom, Nay, my son, let us not all now go, lest we be chargeable unto thee. And he pressed him: howbeit he would not go, but blessed him. Then said Absalom, If not, I pray thee, let my brother Amnon go with us. And the king said unto him, Why should he go with thee? But Absalom pressed him, that he let Amnon and all the king's sons go with him. Now Absalom had commanded his servants, saying, Mark ye now when Amnon's heart is merry with wine, and when I say unto you, Smite Amnon; then kill him, fear not: have not I commanded you? be courageous, and be valiant. And the servants of Absalom did unto Amnon as Absalom had commanded. Then all the king's sons arose, and every man gat him up upon his mule, and fled. And it came to pass, while they were in the way, that tidings came to David, saying, Absalom hath slain all the king's sons, and there is not one of them left. Then the king arose, and tare his garments, and lay on the earth; and all his servants stood by with their clothes rent. And Jonadab, the son of Shimeah David's brother, answered and said, Let not my lord suppose that they have slain all the young men the king's sons; for Amnon only is dead: for by the appointment of Absalom this hath been determined from the day that he forced his sister Tamar. Now therefore let not my lord the king take the thing to his heart, to think that all the king's sons are dead: for Amnon only is dead. But Absalom fled. And the young man that kept the watch lifted up his eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came much people by the way of the hill side behind him. And Jonadab said unto the king, Behold, the king's sons come: as thy servant said, so it is. And it came to pass, as soon as he had made an end of speaking, that, behold, the king's sons came, and lifted up their voice and wept: and the king also and all his servants wept very sore. But Absalom fled, and went to Talmai, the son of Ammihud, king of Geshur. And David mourned for his son every day. So Absalom fled, and went to Geshur, and was there three years. And the soul of king David longed to go forth unto Absalom: for he was comforted concerning Amnon, seeing he was dead. Now Joab the son of Zeruiah perceived that the king's heart was toward Absalom. And Joab sent to Tekoah, and fetched thence a wise woman, and said unto her, I pray thee, feign thyself to be a mourner, and put on now mourning apparel, and anoint not thyself with oil, but be as a woman that had a long time mourned for the dead: And come to the king, and speak on this manner unto him. So Joab put the words in her mouth. And when the woman of Tekoah spake to the king, she fell on her face to the ground, and did obeisance, and said, Help, O king. And the king said unto her, What aileth thee? And she answered, I am indeed a widow woman, and mine husband is dead. And thy handmaid had two sons, and they two strove together in the field, and there was none to part them, but the one smote the other, and slew him. And, behold, the whole family is risen against thine handmaid, and they said, Deliver him that smote his brother, that we may kill him, for the life of his brother whom he slew; and we will destroy the heir also: and so they shall quench my coal which is left, and shall not leave to my husband neither name nor remainder upon the earth. And the king said unto the woman, Go to thine house, and I will give charge concerning thee. And the woman of Tekoah said unto the king, My lord, O king, the iniquity be on me, and on my father's house: and the king and his throne be guiltless. And the king said, Whosoever saith ought unto thee, bring him to me, and he shall not touch thee any more. Then said she, I pray thee, let the king remember the LORD thy God, that thou wouldest not suffer the revengers of blood to destroy any more, lest they destroy my son. And he said, As the LORD liveth, there shall not one hair of thy son fall to the earth. Then the woman said, Let thine handmaid, I pray thee, speak one word unto my lord the king. And he said, Say on. And the woman said, Wherefore then hast thou thought such a thing against the people of God? for the king doth speak this thing as one which is faulty, in that the king doth not fetch home again his banished. For we must needs die, and are as water spilt on the ground, which cannot be gathered up again; neither doth God respect any person: yet doth he devise means, that his banished be not expelled from him. Now therefore that I am come to speak of this thing unto my lord the king, it is because the people have made me afraid: and thy handmaid said, I will now speak unto the king; it may be that the king will perform the request of his handmaid. For the king will hear, to deliver his handmaid out of the hand of the man that would destroy me and my son together out of the inheritance of God. Then thine handmaid said, The word of my lord the king shall now be comfortable: for as an angel of God, so is my lord the king to discern good and bad: therefore the LORD thy God will be with thee. Then the king answered and said unto the woman, Hide not from me, I pray thee, the thing that I shall ask thee. And the woman said, Let my lord the king now speak. And the king said, Is not the hand of Joab with thee in all this? And the woman answered and said, As thy soul liveth, my lord the king, none can turn to the right hand or to the left from ought that my lord the king hath spoken: for thy servant Joab, he bade me, and he put all these words in the mouth of thine handmaid: To fetch about this form of speech hath thy servant Joab done this thing: and my lord is wise, according to the wisdom of an angel of God, to know all things that are in the earth. And the king said unto Joab, Behold now, I have done this thing: go therefore, bring the young man Absalom again. And Joab fell to the ground on his face, and bowed himself, and thanked the king: and Joab said, To day thy servant knoweth that I have found grace in thy sight, my lord, O king, in that the king hath fulfilled the request of his servant. So Joab arose and went to Geshur, and brought Absalom to Jerusalem. And the king said, Let him turn to his own house, and let him not see my face. So Absalom returned to his own house, and saw not the king's face. But in all Israel there was none to be so much praised as Absalom for his beauty: from the sole of his foot even to the crown of his head there was no blemish in him. And when he polled his head, (for it was at every year's end that he polled it: because the hair was heavy on him, therefore he polled it): he weighed the hair of his head at two hundred shekels after the king's weight. And unto Absalom there were born three sons, and one daughter, whose name was Tamar: she was a woman of a fair countenance. So Absalom dwelt two full years in Jerusalem, and saw not the king's face. Therefore Absalom sent for Joab, to have sent him to the king; but he would not come to him: and when he sent again the second time, he would not come. Therefore he said unto his servants, See, Joab's field is near mine, and he hath barley there; go and set it on fire. And Absalom's servants set the field on fire. Then Joab arose, and came to Absalom unto his house, and said unto him, Wherefore have thy servants set my field on fire? And Absalom answered Joab, Behold, I sent unto thee, saying, Come hither, that I may send thee to the king, to say, Wherefore am I come from Geshur? it had been good for me to have been there still: now therefore let me see the king's face; and if there be any iniquity in me, let him kill me. So Joab came to the king, and told him: and when he had called for Absalom, he came to the king, and bowed himself on his face to the ground before the king: and the king kissed Absalom. And it came to pass after this, that Absalom prepared him chariots and horses, and fifty men to run before him. And Absalom rose up early, and stood beside the way of the gate: and it was so, that when any man that had a controversy came to the king for judgment, then Absalom called unto him, and said, Of what city art thou? And he said, Thy servant is of one of the tribes of Israel. And Absalom said unto him, See, thy matters are good and right; but there is no man deputed of the king to hear thee. Absalom said moreover, Oh that I were made judge in the land, that every man which hath any suit or cause might come unto me, and I would do him justice! And it was so, that when any man came nigh to him to do him obeisance, he put forth his hand, and took him, and kissed him. And on this manner did Absalom to all Israel that came to the king for judgment: so Absalom stole the hearts of the men of Israel. And it came to pass after forty years, that Absalom said unto the king, I pray thee, let me go and pay my vow, which I have vowed unto the LORD, in Hebron. For thy servant vowed a vow while I abode at Geshur in Syria, saying, If the LORD shall bring me again indeed to Jerusalem, then I will serve the LORD. And the king said unto him, Go in peace. So he arose, and went to Hebron. But Absalom sent spies throughout all the tribes of Israel, saying, As soon as ye hear the sound of the trumpet, then ye shall say, Absalom reigneth in Hebron. And with Absalom went two hundred men out of Jerusalem, that were called; and they went in their simplicity, and they knew not any thing. And Absalom sent for Ahithophel the Gilonite, David's counsellor, from his city, even from Giloh, while he offered sacrifices. And the conspiracy was strong; for the people increased continually with Absalom. And there came a messenger to David, saying, The hearts of the men of Israel are after Absalom. And David said unto all his servants that were with him at Jerusalem, Arise, and let us flee; for we shall not else escape from Absalom: make speed to depart, lest he overtake us suddenly, and bring evil upon us, and smite the city with the edge of the sword. And the king's servants said unto the king, Behold, thy servants are ready to do whatsoever my lord the king shall appoint. And the king went forth, and all his household after him. And the king left ten women, which were concubines, to keep the house. And the king went forth, and all the people after him, and tarried in a place that was far off. And all his servants passed on beside him; and all the Cherethites, and all the Pelethites, and all the Gittites, six hundred men which came after him from Gath, passed on before the king. Then said the king to Ittai the Gittite, Wherefore goest thou also with us? return to thy place, and abide with the king: for thou art a stranger, and also an exile. Whereas thou camest but yesterday, should I this day make thee go up and down with us? seeing I go whither I may, return thou, and take back thy brethren: mercy and truth be with thee. And Ittai answered the king, and said, As the LORD liveth, and as my lord the king liveth, surely in what place my lord the king shall be, whether in death or life, even there also will thy servant be. And David said to Ittai, Go and pass over. And Ittai the Gittite passed over, and all his men, and all the little ones that were with him. And all the country wept with a loud voice, and all the people passed over: the king also himself passed over the brook Kidron, and all the people passed over, toward the way of the wilderness. And lo Zadok also, and all the Levites were with him, bearing the ark of the covenant of God: and they set down the ark of God; and Abiathar went up, until all the people had done passing out of the city. And the king said unto Zadok, Carry back the ark of God into the city: if I shall find favour in the eyes of the LORD, he will bring me again, and shew me both it, and his habitation: But if he thus say, I have no delight in thee; behold, here am I, let him do to me as seemeth good unto him. The king said also unto Zadok the priest, Art not thou a seer? return into the city in peace, and your two sons with you, Ahimaaz thy son, and Jonathan the son of Abiathar. See, I will tarry in the plain of the wilderness, until there come word from you to certify me. Zadok therefore and Abiathar carried the ark of God again to Jerusalem: and they tarried there. And David went up by the ascent of mount Olivet, and wept as he went up, and had his head covered, and he went barefoot: and all the people that was with him covered every man his head, and they went up, weeping as they went up. And one told David, saying, Ahithophel is among the conspirators with Absalom. And David said, O LORD, I pray thee, turn the counsel of Ahithophel into foolishness. And it came to pass, that when David was come to the top of the mount, where he worshipped God, behold, Hushai the Archite came to meet him with his coat rent, and earth upon his head: Unto whom David said, If thou passest on with me, then thou shalt be a burden unto me: But if thou return to the city, and say unto Absalom, I will be thy servant, O king; as I have been thy father's servant hitherto, so will I now also be thy servant: then mayest thou for me defeat the counsel of Ahithophel. And hast thou not there with thee Zadok and Abiathar the priests? therefore it shall be, that what thing soever thou shalt hear out of the king's house, thou shalt tell it to Zadok and Abiathar the priests. Behold, they have there with them their two sons, Ahimaaz Zadok's son, and Jonathan Abiathar's son; and by them ye shall send unto me every thing that ye can hear. So Hushai David's friend came into the city, and Absalom came into Jerusalem. KJV





It is abundantly clear that in the matter of the rape an easy remedy presented itself. Marry her. But just look how much of this account is devoted to Tamar and compare the real thrust of what is taking place here, the interaction between the brothers. Check out the subterfuges and sub-plots necessary to reconcile the situation with the King. In the preamble, we met Jonadab and got an insight into the type of mind we're dealing with here. How he approached the small matter of sister-pouncing showed how matters of importance would be dealt with later on.

As indeed they were.

2 Samuel 13:11 - but when she took the food to him to eat it, he grabbed her and said , come to bed with me , my sister"

Don't , my brother!" She said to him. Don't force me. Such a wicked thing should not be done in Israel! Don't do this wicked thing. What about me? Where could I get rid of my disgrace? And what about you? You would be like one of the wicked fools in Israel. Please speak to the king; he will not keep me from being married to you." But Amnon refused to listen to her, and since he was stronger than she, he raped her...

Proverbs 17:15

Acquitting the guilty and condemning the innocent- The Lord detests them both..


Seriously.. Act like men, don't be cowards by blaming women for EVERYTHING. Be accountable for your part in the crime .. MAN UP

And that's how cherry picking always misses the point.

[I'mforgivin]

Re: Only Sluts Get Raped! (1st Timothy 2:9)

@ didymus. Ummm care to tell me where in North America this law is still enforced??

[Science=Satan]

Re: Only Sluts Get Raped! (1st Timothy 2:9)

That is, in fact, the whole of the problem with rape in the first place. It can't occur in wedlock, because there is a contract declaring the woman's consent to be bedded at any moment, suspecting or not. Rape is really no better, or worse, than anal sex, because it isn't productive of any children. Rape can be rejected as a Godly sexual practice on these grounds. The only kind of rape that is acceptable is the kind that God approves of, where a woman is forced to marry and subsequently raped for the rest of her life!

Judges 21:21 recounts this:

Do you even know how women get pregnant,if you did you would know rape is unconcentional sex its still sex just without constent so you women can still get pregnant from rape.

[Didymus Much]

Re: Only Sluts Get Raped! (1st Timothy 2:9)

...Be accountable for your part in the crime .. MAN UP

Really?

As always, let's see what the Bible says; in this case, of punishments for the crime* of rape. If an unengaged virgin gets raped where there's no one else around to hear her screams, the man involved is forced to marry her, can never divorce her, and has to support her for the rest of her life, and give her father 50 shekels of silver in recompense. In ALL other cases, the man dies. I'd say those are both pretty severe punishments, wouldn't you?

*Relations with wives taken as war prizes (including temporarily) are not crimes, thus not rape.

[I'mforgivin]

Re: Only Sluts Get Raped! (1st Timothy 2:9)

2 Samuel 13:11 - but when she took the food to him to eat it, he grabbed her and said , come to bed with me , my sister"

Don't , my brother!" She said to him. Don't force me. Such a wicked thing should not be done in Israel! Don't do this wicked thing. What about me? Where could I get rid of my disgrace? And what about you? You would be like one of the wicked fools in Israel. Please speak to the king; he will not keep me from being married to you." But Amnon refused to listen to her, and since he was stronger than she, he raped her...

Proverbs 17:15

Acquitting the guilty and condemning the innocent- The Lord detests them both..


Seriously.. Act like men, don't be cowards by blaming women for EVERYTHING. Be accountable for your part in the crime .. MAN UP

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: Only Sluts Get Raped! (1st Timothy 2:9)

..like someone gobbling down opium and then, when the inevitable happens, start playing the "poor me, I'm a smack head" card at every opportunity.

..or like those people who say their criminal behaviour is a result of deprivation when during the depressions of the 1890's and 1930's the crime rate was much lower.

..so who's really to blame here?

PROVERBS 7:6-27 ..at the window of my house I looked through my casement, And beheld among the simple ones, I discerned among the youths, a young man void of understanding, Passing through the street near her corner; and he went the way to her house, In the twilight, in the evening, in the black and dark night: And, behold, there met him a woman with the attire of an harlot, and subtil of heart. (She is loud and stubborn; her feet abide not in her house: Now is she without, now in the streets, and lieth in wait at every corner.) So she caught him, and kissed him, and with an impudent face said unto him, I have peace offerings with me; this day have I payed my vows. Therefore came I forth to meet thee, diligently to seek thy face, and I have found thee. I have decked my bed with coverings of tapestry, with carved works, with fine linen of Egypt. I have perfumed my bed with myrrh, aloes, and cinnamon. Come, let us take our fill of love until the morning: let us solace ourselves with loves. For the goodman is not at home, he is gone a long journey: He hath taken a bag of money with him, and will come home at the day appointed. With her much fair speech she caused him to yield, with the flattering of her lips she forced him. He goeth after her straightway, as an ox goeth to the slaughter, or as a fool to the correction of the stocks; Till a dart strike through his liver; as a bird hasteth to the snare, and knoweth not that it is for his life. Hearken unto me now therefore, O ye children, and attend to the words of my mouth. Let not thine heart decline to her ways, go not astray in her paths. For she hath cast down many wounded: yea, many strong men have been slain by her. Her house is the way to hell, going down to the chambers of death. KJV

[Cranky Old Man]

Re: Only Sluts Get Raped! (1st Timothy 2:9)

Sooo why are you all being judgemental on the way people dress?

Not at all. If a women wants to dress like a complete slut I have no objections against that. My objections are that when girls dressed like sluts get raped, they complain about it.

[I'MSOSTUPID]

Re: Only Sluts Get Raped! (1st Timothy 2:9)

Sooo why are you all being judgemental on the way people dress?
The only thing i see from the posts you are posting is that your against everyone How would you know what someone who isn't real wants? or thinks? i mean even if he is real hes dead like years and years ago no idea what would be the thoughts now stop living in the past and stop being judgemental bastards you cant judge me as were all allowed our opinions correct?

[see_the_light]

Re: Only Sluts Get Raped! (1st Timothy 2:9)

Even the LIEbearl press is starting to spread the word (thou they try and twist it to their agenda)

'My father raped me then told me it was better to lose my virginity to him than a random person in a hotel'

PRAISE THE LORD!