[Sister Noddy]

Re: Sorcerer botches baptism

No, you believe in a somewhat, kinda, maybe just a little bit powerful god.

You don't believe in ALMIGHTY God. If you believed in ALMIGHTY God, then

(this)

wouldn't be a statement, you'd make.

The statement would be "I believe in all of it, literally".

Instead, you have looked for PROOF, and instead of believing what God has laid out for you, you instead took the easy way out.

You are no christian.

You probably don't even believe a guy named Jesus existed, or if he did, he was just a wise man.

But, you sure do look purdy in your fancy e-pisc-o-pail-e-an robes.

sure do ...

V

Really Brother V, I'm laughing so hard I can hardly type. You guys are a scream!

Believe it or not, I've found renewed strength in my own Episcopalian faith just by joining and posting on this fundie Baptist forum.

Another miracle from God? Would I have found renewed vitality anyway?

(see my post above, I think you missed the special story of angels I had to tell Al, and it's all true)

... may the peace of the Lord be always with you, minister noddy

[Brother V]

Re: Sorcerer botches baptism

In short I believe the story of Jesus was the story of a man, and that later the authors of the Gospels and other books of the New Testament embellished because of the sheer wonder of his life on earth ... and later still, the early Romish church (2nd and 3rd centuries AD) embellished a little more, and so on and so on ...

If you believe the entire thing has been embellished (just a little more each time) then why even bother to believe any of it at all?

Or do you just FEEL that some parts are right, and then FEEL your way around the parts you don't think partain to you?

Even so I do believe in Almighty God,

No, you believe in a somewhat, kinda, maybe just a little bit powerful god.

You don't believe in ALMIGHTY God. If you believed in ALMIGHTY God, then

I would have believed all of it literally

wouldn't be a statement, you'd make.

The statement would be "I believe in all of it, literally".

Instead, you have looked for PROOF, and instead of believing what God has laid out for you, you instead took the easy way out.

You are no christian.

You probably don't even believe a guy named Jesus existed, or if he did, he was just a wise man.

But, you sure do look purdy in your fancy e-pisc-o-pail-e-an robes.

sure do...

V

[Sister Noddy]

Re: Sorcerer botches baptism

Got it. God is one of the voices in your head. Give me an example then, of how he can change something spiritually without the effect being felt temporally. For instance, if He tells you not to drown an arab and you don't, that is certainly more than spiritual. That's physical. If you drown the arab anyway, then that must have been God's wish in the first place and SATAN was whispering in your ear.

Of course that's a rather bad example because GOD would never tell anyone not to kill a diaperhead. So I am not sure what you are saying. Have you ever been lost on a road and God told you how to get home? What sorts of things DO you see GOD doing?

Yes, He is a voice in our heads.

It's easy to tell the difference between His voice and my own thoughts or imaginations. There is no satan, and there are no demons, except in the wild imaginings of our minds; apparitions that are easy to recognize.

I want to tell you some stories that happened to me, Pastor ...

GOD has spoken to me many times in my life as an actual voice. He can also manifest as a figure of light and can be seen temporarily, or send angels.

Once when I was very sick many years ago, a being of light appeared in my bedroom and sat down on the side of the bed and put his arm around my shoulders.

He spoke to me, and I saw him, it was a great angel, very tall. I could see through his body, he was all in transparent white, and he was of the Divine. Next thing I knew, I had slept and when I woke the angel was gone, and I was still sick but the fever had broken, and in a few days I was well.

Would I have got well anyway? Did I imagine the angel?

Nothing was changed in my house, except for one thing. My Bible, which had been on the desk in another room, was now in my hand on the pillow. It was open to Psalm 23.

I don't remember walking to the other room to get the Bible.

Then a few years later ...

Driving my car one night, I took a wrong turn and got lost in the backroads, in the dark, and I was very scared. Suddenly a figure in white, again angelic and taller than a normal person, appeared on the road in front of the car, and waved at me, then pointed, then vanished. I drove in that direction and found the main road, and got home safely.

Would I have got home anyway? Did I imagine the angel?

These experiences were years before I joined the Episcopal Church, I had not forgotten them.

In 1999 I wanted to go back to church, so I asked God what I should do, and He said in my mind: Go and find a church and join it, I will lead you there.

Next day I walked up to the Catholic church, sat through the mass, and afterward asked a priest how to become a Catholic. But the priest didn't seem very interested and walked away. I felt snubbed. And God was silent that night. I thought hmmmm, wrong church!

The day after that I walked into the chapel of the Episcopal Church. The liturgy at noon was being recited. Immediately God spoke to me in my mind and said: You have come home, and these things you see being done at the altar before you, so shall you do them also ...

So you see, I don't see very much of the physical going on, but He speaks to us in our minds. Therein lies the secret of the miracles, the secret is within us, given by the Grace of God.

I have been at my church for eight years, and a liturgical minister for seven. What God promised me came true for me. I didn't have to do anything, it all fell into place, it was given to me just like that.

... this is a serious post, Pastor

[Pastor Al E Pistle]

Re: Sorcerer botches baptism

Well, I don't see evidence that God influences or alters physical matter, that is, inanimate objects or the weather or living things like plants and animals and people ...

I do see a great deal of evidence that He influences the human mind and spirit, that He speaks to us through our minds and imaginations and souls ...

So I believe God is in the Spirit and influences the world spiritually but without changing anything physically ...

This is as carefully as I can answer your question, and is just my belief, not necessarily my church's doctrine ...

Beyond this, I'm not able to explain it any better than I have, Pastor Al ...

Got it. God is one of the voices in your head. Give me an example then, of how he can change something spiritually without the effect being felt temporally. For instance, if He tells you not to drown an arab and you don't, that is certainly more than spiritual. That's physical. If you drown the arab anyway, then that must have been God's wish in the first place and SATAN was whispering in your ear.

Of course that's a rather bad example because GOD would never tell anyone not to kill a diaperhead. So I am not sure what you are saying. Have you ever been lost on a road and God told you how to get home? What sorts of things DO you see GOD doing?

[Sister Noddy]

Re: Sorcerer botches baptism

I see. so God is somehow outside our 'event horizon'? He exists in spirit, but cannot influence us? Be careful how you answer.

Well, I don't see evidence that God influences or alters physical matter, that is, inanimate objects or the weather or living things like plants and animals and people ...

I do see a great deal of evidence that He influences the human mind and spirit, that He speaks to us through our minds and imaginations and souls ...

So I believe God is in the Spirit and influences the world spiritually but without changing anything physically ...

This is as carefully as I can answer your question, and is just my belief, not necessarily my church's doctrine ...

Beyond this, I'm not able to explain it any better than I have, Pastor Al ...

[Pastor Al E Pistle]

Re: Sorcerer botches baptism

I don't believe any of the supernatural happening on the natural earth ...

Even so I do believe in Almighty God, and in the Holy Spirit beyond the physical realm ...

I see. so God is somehow outside our 'event horizon'? He exists in spirit, but cannot influence us? Be careful how you answer.

[Sister Noddy]

Re: Sorcerer botches baptism



Okay I've read your replies ...

If I had lived in the times before modern biological science, I would have believed all of it literally, the way you do ...

But today science shows us (and yesssss with proof!) that these miracles in the scripture couldn't have happened ...

I don't believe any of the supernatural happening on the natural earth ...

Even so I do believe in Almighty God, and in the Holy Spirit beyond the physical realm ...

... I do believe Jesus was the son of God, but that he was a physical human being, to whom God gave the total Grace of the Divine ...

I don't believe that Mary was a virgin, she was a young woman, I believe she was with Joseph, and their son was born, but that the Holy Spirit entered Mary with the message that their son would become the son of God ...

... to teach men of those times that all the faithful can receive a little bit of the gift of the Divine, right here on earth, so that all may have eternal life in the Spirit!

Now this was a new concept within the staunch and very strict Judaism of the day, and to all appeared miraculous ...

In short I believe the story of Jesus was the story of a man, and that later the authors of the Gospels and other books of the New Testament embellished because of the sheer wonder of his life on earth ... and later still, the early Romish church (2nd and 3rd centuries AD) embellished a little more, and so on and so on ...

Also remember that none of the gospels were written until at least 60 years after Jesus' crucifixion ...

But in mainstream Christianity, it is the Divine message of Jesus that matters, and our faith as the Body of Christ in the world today, and not whether the man Jesus was supernatural in real life ...

[Pastor Rune Enoe]

Re: Sorcerer botches baptism

If Jesus' actual physical body came to life again, it would have been corrupt biologically, and starting to fester.

No, it wouldn't. I think you're confusing the resurrection story with some "living dead" zombie B-movie.

It had been prophesied since David's time, that Jesus' body would not corrupt:

Acts 2:25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
Acts 2:26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
Acts 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

And even if (and I'm speaking theoretically now) Jesus' body had begin to stink - like Lazarus' body did - I'm confident Jesus could fix that little problem too - like he did for Lazarus.

[SalvationSeeker]

Re: Sorcerer botches baptism

And last but not least, Mr Salvation, you are viewing the scripture one way, and I am viewing the same words another way.

Yeah, we do.
I take the whole Bible into consideration, you only take the parts you care about into consideration.

If Jesus' actual physical body came to life again, it would have been corrupt biologically, and starting to fester. God gave him a new heavenly one, and that's the one seen by Mary and the disciples; what they were seeing and touching was a spirit body, and God could have made it possible for their senses to know Him.

You still don't get it, do you?
Why do you INSIST that Jesus body was imperfect?
Why would a perfect body deacy (and only after three days!) answer me that!

What dies in the natural flesh will decay. What rises in a spiritual body will be of another substance, and not subject to natural biology.

But as John 1:14 PROVES, His flesh isn't natural flesh.
Can't you read?

And this is how I call myself a Christian, and so also most of the mainstream Christians in the world.

... that's it, noddy

So you call yourself a Christian because you ignore scripture: I see.
And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
Luke 6:46

[Pastor Al E Pistle]

Re: Sorcerer botches baptism

And last but not least, Mr Salvation, you are viewing the scripture one way, and I am viewing the same words another way.

Yes. Salvation Seeker is reading the words GOD caused to be written. You are making up whatever you happen to like and then saying "What is, ain't, and what ain't is, because that's what 'I' want them to be."

GOD doesn't play that. I am VERY afraid that you are going to be taking the "E" ticket ride to the coal cellar.

[Sister Noddy]

Re: Sorcerer botches baptism

Brother V:

Jesus made kind of a big deal of it being a physical resurrection.

No, fundamentalists make a big deal out of a physical resurrection.

Brother V:

So what happened to the body? Are you going to say Joseph of Arimathaea ate it at the last supper?

No, not exactly. Joseph of Arimathaea could have moved the body to another location.

And last but not least, Mr Salvation, you are viewing the scripture one way, and I am viewing the same words another way.

So also is the resurrection of the dead.
It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1 Corinthians 15:42

If Jesus' actual physical body came to life again, it would have been corrupt biologically, and starting to fester. God gave him a new heavenly one, and that's the one seen by Mary and the disciples; what they were seeing and touching was a spirit body, and God could have made it possible for their senses to know Him.

It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.
There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1 Corinthians 15:44

What dies in the natural flesh will decay. What rises in a spiritual body will be of another substance, and not subject to natural biology.

And this is how I call myself a Christian, and so also most of the mainstream Christians in the world.

... that's it, noddy

[SalvationSeeker]

Re: Sorcerer botches baptism

What do you think Paul was saying there? Jesus' resurrection was of the Spirit, and his new 'flesh' was of heaven and not a physical body.

Nonsense.
You cut out verses to twist it.. is that how you usually do at your "church"?
And your interpretation creates a contradiction with other parts of the Bible, thus your interpretation is WRONG!

So also is the resurrection of the dead.
It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1 Corinthians 15:42

Are you saying Jesus was corrupted?
And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins;
And in him is no sin.
1 John 3:5

It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.
There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1 Corinthians 15:44

And are you saying that Jesus flesh was natural flesh? His body natural?
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
John 1:14

Really, you need but read verse 40 to realize..
That this verse is about the raising of ordinary men, not of Jesus Christ, who'm is God Himself.
You're simply desperate to find support for your blasphemous theories.


Also, do tell me what this would mean if you were actually right..

Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands;
And reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God.
Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed:
Blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
John 20:27-29

So as you can see, Jesus didn't even have a new body: He had the same body that was crucifed! And that is the only thing that could be:
For that one was perfect, being the Word made flesh and EVERY Word of God is pure! (Proverbs 30:5)

What you're doing is striking at the foundations of faith:
You downplay God's power, and claim that Jesus/God/The Word is impure, CORRUPTED even!

REPENT!

[Pastor Rune Enoe]

Re: Sorcerer botches baptism

Now many still do believe in a physical resurrection, but I personally do not.

So what happened to the body? Are you going to say Joseph of Arimathaea ate it at the last supper? Or that all the disciples bungled and went to Lazarus' empty grave instead of Jesus' grave?

[Brother V]

Re: Sorcerer botches baptism

Now many still do believe in a physical resurrection, but I personally do not.
:

Jesus made kind of a big deal of it being a physical resurrection.

Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

Or do you reject that part of the Bible (KJV1611).

If you reject the Bible, how can you consider yourself a christian?

YIC
V

[Sister Noddy]

Re: Sorcerer botches baptism

You are just trying to change the subject, Mr Prune.

First we Episcopalians do baptize by full emersion.

Second, we do honor and respect women as equal to men in our modern society.

Third, because of the specific scripture I have posted above in I Corinthians by Paul, we see fit that it is acceptible to consider Christ's resurrection as having been in the Spirit (soul) only and not his natural earthly body.

Now many still do believe in a physical resurrection, but I personally do not.

... hope this explains, noddy