God Hates the Sin, not the Sinner. - NONSENSE!

[Halleluyah Rob]

I'm tired of all the candy-coated "Christians" out there, who preach mushy nonsense like "God isn't angry with you, only the sins you're committing".

Biblically speaking it's obvious that in the Lord's infinite justice and holy wrath, those who sin against him are held 100% responsible. The sins they commit define who they are, and they will perish. It is seen over and over.

Hosea 9:13-17-
13Ephraim, as I saw Tyrus, is planted in a pleasant place: but Ephraim shall bring forth his children to the murderer.
14Give them, O LORD: what wilt thou give? give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts.
15All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more: all their princes are revolters.
16Ephraim is smitten, their root is dried up, they shall bear no fruit: yea, though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb.
17My God will cast them away, because they did not hearken unto him: and they shall be wanderers among the nations.


God only puts up with so much from sinners before he casts them away.


Hebrews 10:26-31-
26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.


Psalms 5:5-


The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

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Remember, if you're a sinner God hates you and you will surely burn in the lake of fire for all eternity. He does this all out of love, Amen!

[Sword of the Spirit]

Re: God Hates the Sin, not the Sinner. - NONSENSE!

Let me ask you a question, if you don't mind it.

Would you die for someone that you hated?
Or even more: Do you think Jesus would die for someone that he didn't love?

You are claiming, correct me if I'm wrong, that all non-Christians are hated by God. Well, we've all heard the John 3:16 verses

"16) For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only son, that whoever believes in Him shall not parish but have eternal life 17) For God did not send His son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world, through Him."

You make it sound like God enjoys sending people (apparently 'sinners', 'trash', 'the unclean' and 'the damned') to Hell. I would have to think quite the opposite. God came to save all people, and believe it or not, there was a time when the saved were not saved. If what you were saying is true, then Jesus would absolutely hate us until we became Christians. However, this provides a contradiction of logic, for why would God care about those he hated until they became the ones he loved?

Instead, it makes more logical sense that Jesus loves all people: "For it is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick"-Jesus. Jesus came to save those who were lost and provide a way to get to heaven, correct? Why then would he die in a horrific way and be hated by the world, if he didn't so much as care about it.

We can agree that Jesus exhibited the full potential of love (I can assume, again, tell me if I'm wrong). Here's another Jesus quote, "For there is no greater love then this; to lay down one's life for a friend."

Unless you have a human nature that I have not come across yet, people do not consider people that they hate, despise, or even have little fondness for 'friends'. I really and truly believe that God loves us all, and loves us all equally. Being Christian makes you saved, but I have seen nothing in scripture that hints at the idea that God loves you more than anyone else, because how much greater is infinity than infinity?

And please, in reply to this post, keep in mind that I did not name call, slander or abuse my rights in any way, and I ask that you keep the same formalities when writing about me.

[Pastor J.C. Manning, M.D., Ph.D.]

Re: God Hates the Sin, not the Sinner. - NONSENSE!

Dear Sword of the Spirit,

You make it sound like God enjoys sending people (apparently 'sinners', 'trash', 'the unclean' and 'the damned') to Hell.

Of course not. It really hurts God that there are people who ignore His clear instructions. "Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?" (Ezekiel 33:11)

I would have to think quite the opposite. God came to save all people

No He did not. According to your reasoning there would be no need for Hell, we would just all go to Heaven. As you can imagine that is not how it works. The only way to Heaven is through Jesus Christ, all other ways lead to Hell. "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life: no man comes to the Father but by Me." (John 14:6)

Instead, it makes more logical sense that Jesus loves all people

You are making up stuff that is not in the Holy Bible. That is not how it works. You have to follow the Holy Bible and nothing else. "Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you." (Deuteronomy 4:2)

Being Christian makes you saved, but I have seen nothing in scripture that hints at the idea that God loves you more than anyone else, because how much greater is infinity than infinity?

Your assumption that God loves everyone is flawed. "These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren." (Proverbs 6:16-19)

Yours in Christ,

Pastor J.C. Manning, M.D., Ph.D.

[Pastor Isaac Peters]

Re: God Hates the Sin, not the Sinner. - NONSENSE!

Let me ask you a question, if you don't mind it.

Would you die for someone that you hated?
Or even more: Do you think Jesus would die for someone that he didn't love?

It sounds as though you're speculating about the thought processes of the Almighty. That's not a good thing.

Isaiah 55:8-9: For my thoughts [are] not your thoughts, neither [are] your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For [as] the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

You are claiming, correct me if I'm wrong, that all non-Christians are hated by God. Well, we've all heard the John 3:16 verses

"16) For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only son, that whoever believes in Him shall not parish but have eternal life 17) For God did not send His son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world, through Him."

What do you make of Psalm 5:5, quoted above? For that matter, what do you make of the following:

Romans 9:13: As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

God came to save all people, and believe it or not, there was a time when the saved were not saved.

Really? It looks as though only those whom the Father draws can be saved:

John 6:44: No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Such people were chosen from the beginning, so that there was no time at which they were not predestined to salvation:

2 Thess. 2:13-14: But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Unless you have a human nature that I have not come across yet, people do not consider people that they hate, despise, or even have little fondness for 'friends'.

Are you saying that Almighty God is limited by human nature?

[Sword of the Spirit]

Re: God Hates the Sin, not the Sinner. - NONSENSE!

I mean you no disrespect, but your counter-arguments do not stand together, but rather point out certain parts of my argument and throw them back, even if I've already said the same thing.

According to your reasoning there would be no need for Hell, we would just all go to Heaven

Actually, I never said that. It just appeared to me that only the certain elect CAN be saved not WILL be saved.

I am not 'adding' things to the Bible, but rather am creating an unified hypothesis as to why such a statement would work, an what it would mean.

Your assumption that God loves everyone is flawed. "These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren."

These are not actually people, but rather deeds. Which... unless I am mistaken, is the exact opposite of what you are trying to prove.

It sounds as though you're speculating about the thought processes of the Almighty. That's not a good thing.

That is not what I'm doing. I'm making a point. God designed us after him, so our feelings towards things would be somewhat alike. Note: I am not saying that this means we understand God, but rather as a child is like his parents, so Christians would be like God.

Really? It looks as though only those whom the Father draws can be saved:

This verse says that no one can truly accept the Father unless the Father speaks to him. Some random person isn't simply going to walk into a church and be saved. (Usually) Rather, we have bring forth a way to allow God to speak to people, whether through medium or in person.

Such people were chosen from the beginning, so that there was no time at which they were not predestined to salvation:

This I disbelieve. I believe that God knows who will be in Heaven, which is a bit like pre-destination, but it doesn't limit God. Don't put God in a box.

Are you saying that Almighty God is limited by human nature?

No, I'm simply saying that all in all, we should resemble God spiritually.

[Pastor Isaac Peters]

Re: God Hates the Sin, not the Sinner. - NONSENSE!

God designed us after him, so our feelings towards things would be somewhat alike

* * *

Don't put God in a box.

You don't even see the irony, do you?

This verse says that no one can truly accept the Father unless the Father speaks to him. Some random person isn't simply going to walk into a church and be saved. (Usually) Rather, we have bring forth a way to allow God to speak to people, whether through medium or in person.

I happen to think that "except the Father ... draw him" means exactly that. You make it sound as though the Father sat passively by while human beings did the drawing. In that case, why does that verse say what it says?

This I disbelieve. I believe that God knows who will be in Heaven, which is a bit like pre-destination, but it doesn't limit God. Don't put God in a box.

How am I putting God in a box? Also, can you support your explanation with Scripture?

[noble6]

Re: God Hates the Sin, not the Sinner. - NONSENSE!

I'm tired of all the candy-coated "Christians" out there, who preach mushy nonsense like "God isn't angry with you, only the sins you're committing".

Biblically speaking it's obvious that in the Lord's infinite justice and holy wrath, those who sin against him are held 100% responsible. The sins they commit define who they are, and they will perish. It is seen over and over.

Hosea 9:13-17-
13Ephraim, as I saw Tyrus, is planted in a pleasant place: but Ephraim shall bring forth his children to the murderer.
14Give them, O LORD: what wilt thou give? give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts.
15All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more: all their princes are revolters.
16Ephraim is smitten, their root is dried up, they shall bear no fruit: yea, though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb.
17My God will cast them away, because they did not hearken unto him: and they shall be wanderers among the nations.


God only puts up with so much from sinners before he casts them away.


Hebrews 10:26-31-
26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.


Psalms 5:5-


The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Remember, if you're a sinner God hates you and you will surely burn in the lake of fire for all eternity. He does this all out of love, Amen!

I agree with everything you said except for that last thing. Say you're a sinner and you repent and accept Jesus. Will you STILL burn in hell?

[Levi Jones]

Re: God Hates the Sin, not the Sinner. - NONSENSE!

Let me ask you a question, if you don't mind it.

Would you die for someone that you hated?
Or even more: Do you think Jesus would die for someone that he didn't love?

You are claiming, correct me if I'm wrong, that all non-Christians are hated by God. Well, we've all heard the John 3:16 verses

Amen! Whosoever shall believe. Those who do not believe are already damned.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

It takes a lot of love to damn someone forever and ever. Our God is tough, but fair.

However, this provides a contradiction of logic, for why would God care about those he hated until they became the ones he loved?

God tells us that He can and does raise people up to be the vessels of His destruction. To expand on what Pastor Peters wrote..

Romans 9
11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
12It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

Instead, it makes more logical sense that Jesus loves all people: "For it is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick"-Jesus. Jesus came to save those who were lost and provide a way to get to heaven, correct? Why then would he die in a horrific way and be hated by the world, if he didn't so much as care about it.

He does care about those who He calls and those who believe in Him who follow all the rules.

Part 1

[Levi Jones]

Re: God Hates the Sin, not the Sinner. - NONSENSE!

We can agree that Jesus exhibited the full potential of love (I can assume, again, tell me if I'm wrong). Here's another Jesus quote, "For there is no greater love then this; to lay down one's life for a friend."

Indeed, I think you will find we are willing to lay down our lives for one another marching hand in hand with True Christian unity.

I really and truly believe that God loves us all, and loves us all equally.

Maybe not so much.

Psalm 5:5 Hosea 9:15 Leviticus 20:23 Leviticus 26:30 Deuteronomy 32:19-20

[noble6]

Re: God Hates the Sin, not the Sinner. - NONSENSE!

Indeed, I think you will find we are willing to lay down our lives for one another marching hand in hand with True Christian unity.



Maybe not so much.

Psalm 5:5 Hosea 9:15 Leviticus 20:23 Leviticus 26:30 Deuteronomy 32:19-20

I never said any of those things. Any who don't believe me look at the post he is referring too. Just a question: when I go on a forum to have an honest talk about God, why do you twist my words? God specifically tells us NOT to lie.

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: God Hates the Sin, not the Sinner. - NONSENSE!

God specifically tells us NOT to lie.

He also commands us not to bear false witness.

[noble6]

Re: God Hates the Sin, not the Sinner. - NONSENSE!

He also commands us not to bear false witness.

But I'm telling the truth. As a good pastor, clearly you can see it! I came to join a wholesome baptist community, not have someone lie about what I say in my posts!

[James Hutchins]

Re: God Hates the Sin, not the Sinner. - NONSENSE!

But I'm telling the truth. As a good pastor, clearly you can see it! I came to join a wholesome baptist community, not have someone lie about what I say in my posts!

No one here lies, at least not a single True Christian™. It is probable that UnSaved Trash are lying, you know how they are!

What we do is tell it straight from the hip. No sugar coating and making the "bad thoughts go away". We tell it like it is. If the Bible says something, then that is what we believe. God had the Bible written. He had passages and requirements included for a darned good reason that we do not have to know. One of His requirements is that we follow His Book. So without deviation, we unerringly follow His Word as he commands without question.