[Diesel Stanford]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

THE BIBLE

Matthew 22:20-21 [Jesus] saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.

Unless I've been sitting in the Sybil's cave and suffered a surfeit of ethane, Jesus' words there are non-optional. Misrepresenting financial circumstances to taxation authorities would therefore be a betrayal of Jesus.

Thank you, I always ripped this passage out of context and taught it had just to do with proofing that money is the root of all evil (1 Timothy 6:10). That shouldn't have happened since I always keep Christ's commandments, which aren't grieveous (1 John 5:3). Even though women are not supposed to teach at all (1 Timothy 2:12), here this one was helpful.

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

"Neither does the Bible forbid.….betraying the tax office"

THE BIBLE

Matthew 22:20-21 [Jesus] saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.

Unless I've been sitting in the Sybil's cave and suffered a surfeit of ethane, Jesus' words there are non-optional. Misrepresenting financial circumstances to taxation authorities would therefore be a betrayal of Jesus.

[Diesel Stanford]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

The Truth is very important. Unlike other religions, Christianity is based on historical events. For example if there were no Augustus Caesar and no Pontius Pilate and no Paul... but there were.

II PETER 1 .KJV . look up
16 We have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.

Fables are what false religions rely on. They have no basis in history. When their founders died, nothing happened. When Jesus dies the world is changed forever. God Himself confirms the Gospel narrative just as He identifies Jesus to be His Son. Without a knowledge of The Truth people will believe anything. We can visit heathen nations to see how much worse off they are as a result and read their fables too, which are pretty way-off if you ask me.

There is a reason why some nations are prosperous and free while others spend most of their time murdering one another. Call it a spectrum disorder. What varies across the spectrum of nations as their depravity increases?

JOHN 8 .KJV . look up
32 [Jesus speaking] Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Amen, that's correct! All the prophesies proof the Bible is complete truth! Many argue whether the Gap theory is true or not. Well, there is a lot of debate going on. But if we see what really happened, then we see our final authority is the 1611 King James Bible.

Of course there is a lot of stupidy going on. Many pro choice people say "The Bible doesn't forbid abortion" and my reply is "Neither does the Bible forbid going to a brothel or betraying the tax office". And when I warn the very same people about hell through what's written in passages like Luke 16:19-31, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-13, Hebrews 10:26-31, Revelation 20:10-15 etc., they say that's only symbolical or mistranslated. And when I tell that homosexuality is condemned in the Bible they reply that the Bible isn't modern enough anymore. Oh well...
People must realize the Holy Bible is not a simple 'don't do this and that' book. It's God living word. Many people have made fun of me for having faith in that, but should I care? Definitely not. I only follow Christ.

[Basilissa]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

I'd just say that, if you want to think rationally, we have the Bible. It is literally the only logical option.

It depends what you mean by "rationally" which is often taken to signify Aristotle's system of logic or something derived from it.

Sorry about that. I meant rationally as in "utilizing logic". Because the Bible is literally the only option that makes sense.

Of course, dear. I highly recommend that you read Sister Mitza's post again. And then the opening post. And then Sister Mitza's post. Etc, etc, etc, until you finally understand something.

[GreatScott]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

It depends what you mean by "rationally" which is often taken to signify Aristotle's system of logic or something derived from it.

Sorry about that. I meant rationally as in "utilizing logic". Because the Bible is literally the only option that makes sense.

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

I'd just say that, if you want to think rationally, we have the Bible. It is literally the only logical option.

It depends what you mean by "rationally" which is often taken to signify Aristotle's system of logic or something derived from it. And depending on whose opinion you prefer Aristotle (heathen) may or may not endorse a range of propositions very thoroughly refuted over the last couple of centuries. Or three, or four. Something like that. Other opinions suggest that what Aristotle proposed had already been refuted by Democritus (atheist) but that may be pushing the boat out in which case they'd roll in Epicurus (atheist) but the point here really is that Paul (Christian) would certainly be aware of any such disputes.

There were numerous references in POST #1 some of which I'm happy to include here for you:

God hates Rational Thinking!

I Corinthians 1:18-19 The preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

Often, in the secularist world almost invariably, rationality is seen as a logically consistent investigation of the natural world. Not a recent idea and an idea well known to New Testament authors. It had already been proposed that simply by climbing up Mount Olympus one could see whether there were any Zeuses to hand.

I Corinthians 2:14a But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him

People who reject the axioms of logic or disregard seemingly counter-intuitive observations are considered foolish. "They would rather adhere to false preconceptions than accept reality," we are told.

I Corinthians 3:18-19a: Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God

I don't want to dwell on this topic which has been so well set out in the OP. Naturalism elucidates nothing beyond our consciousness held up as an "aware" part of the cosmos. Its proponents don't usually make it that far since, I'd have thought, in so vast an entity as they propose any island of awareness would be significant. But they declare the opposite: our tiny speck is an irrelevant mote! Nevertheless, God sees them..

I Corinthians 1:25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

If you hadn't read the first post I can recommend following up the Scripture revisited there and browsing the whole thread where many comments and suggestions have been addressed.

cf Isaiah 29:13-14

[GreatScott]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

I'd just say that, if you want to think rationally, we have the Bible. It is literally the only logical option.

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

True Disciple, this is one of the things I have always been saying! It is so amazing to find more like-minded thinkers who see the Truth, but not reason, of the Bible.

The Truth is very important. Unlike other religions, Christianity is based on historical events. For example if there were no Augustus Caesar and no Pontius Pilate and no Paul... but there were.

II PETER 1 .KJV . look up
16 We have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.

Fables are what false religions rely on. They have no basis in history. When their founders died, nothing happened. When Jesus dies the world is changed forever. God Himself confirms the Gospel narrative just as He identifies Jesus to be His Son. Without a knowledge of The Truth people will believe anything. We can visit heathen nations to see how much worse off they are as a result and read their fables too, which are pretty way-off if you ask me.

There is a reason why some nations are prosperous and free while others spend most of their time murdering one another. Call it a spectrum disorder. What varies across the spectrum of nations as their depravity increases?

JOHN 8 .KJV . look up
32 [Jesus speaking] Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

[Brother Gonzalez]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

True Disciple, this is one of the things I have always been saying! It is so amazing to find more like-minded thinkers who see the Truth, but not reason, of the Bible.

There is function called "quote" please use it.

[Dave Schulthise]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

True Disciple, this is one of the things I have always been saying! It is so amazing to find more like-minded thinkers who see the Truth, but not reason, of the Bible.

[GaleWhoring the Boring (On Moderation)]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

That is for our Pastor to tell us and for us to judge ourselves.For one, I personally believe that most of Psalm is not to be taken seriously.

The LORD trieth the righteous:
but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.
Psalm 11:5

God would never hate anyone, no matter who they were. I see it as a metaphore. We must be cautious of hate. Lest we become those men who “loveth violence” ourselves.

Because God has spoken to me. I was in a dark place for a time. I was addicted to a substance which I wish not to elicit. I looked for salvation in God and found it. I have been free from my addiction for seven years. I have never been healthier nor happier.
That is why I believe. Not because of The Bible, not because of my parents (I was raised atheist,) not because of word of mouth through my bishop, and not through teaching. I found salvation because I asked for it.

Force is my second middle name!


I'm glad God has made your world better. Substance addiction is a tricky road, and anything to take you off it is a bonus.

[Dolores de Barriga]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

Hello and welcome to the forum, Miss/Mr. Force!

That is for our Pastor to tell us and for us to judge ourselves.For one, I personally believe that most of Psalm is not to be taken seriously.

The LORD trieth the righteous:
but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.
Psalm 11:5

God would never hate anyone, no matter who they were. I see it as a metaphore.

I respect your point of view. However, let's put our assumptions to the side and let's examine some actual evidence instead.

1. God created eternal punishment for all people who don't believe in Him or made any kind of offense against His Will. In human societies, we reserve capital punishment or life in prison only for the worst criminals, while people committing lesser offenses go free after serving their sentences. And even those on the death row can appeal and have their sentences changed if the defendant can document special circumstances. God, on the other hand, gives the same punishment for all offenses, and it is eternal, no appeal, no amnesty, no letting out early for good behavior. Does that seem as fair to you? Or does it seem a bit psychopathic - like something that a very hateful person would do?

2. God punishes entire nations and cities disregarding presence of the innocents. Do you seriously believe that the newborn babies in Sodom and Gomorrah were sinners deserving a painful death? How about the babies still in the wombs of their mothers? You are free to assume the worst of these mothers, but why were the unborn babies punished with their mothers? The same goes for the babies and fetuses which drowned in the Flood. Again - if you see a human burning and drowning babies, would you think of this person as of a loving individual?

You might defend yourself saying these parts of the Bible are "metaphorical" as well. That is an argument difficult to fight; you can easily argue that 100% of the Bible is metaphorical, since we have no evidence for the Flood, Sodom, Gomorrah, nor for the existence of Jesus, either. So, let's move away from the Bible to real life, shall we?

3. God gives cancer to little children. Have you ever been to a children's hospital? The amount of suffering is heartbreaking. I understand giving cancer to an adult person. They already lived their life and we all have to die in some way, and most of the ways to die are painful anyway - that's how God designed it, so I guess He enjoys it. But why cause so much pain to little kids? Is that something a loving God would do?

4. Wars, slavery, and other forms of oppression caused by Abrahamic religions. I assume that you believe that God of Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) is the real one, while gods of other religions are false. Starting with the genocides described in the Old Testament, continuing with the crusades, Inquisition, enslaving Africans, and the genocide of Native Americans, and finishing with the atrocities committed in the name of Islam today, the Abrahamic religions are responsible for the most bloodshed in history - yes, just Christians alone are responsible for more deaths per year than the Aztecs with their mass human sacrifices.

Why is God making little kids suffer and allowing people to commit so many atrocities in His name? Here are the possible answers:

(a) He does not exist.

(b) He is powerless.

(c) He exists, is powerful, and actually enjoys killing people Himself through diseases, and He also enjoys seeing the slaughter of people by people in His name - because He apparently enjoys human suffering.

If (a) or (b) are true, praying to God is a waste of time. If (c) is true then He is a psychopath not worthy of our worship.

Because God has spoken to me.

It's called schizophrenia. There are drugs which can help you to manage it - before that voice tells you to go on a killing spree, and add more victims to the long list of innocents slaughtered on God's orders.

I was in a dark place for a time. I was addicted to a substance which I wish not to elicit. I looked for salvation in God and found it. I have been free from my addiction for seven years. I have never been healthier nor happier.
That is why I believe. Not because of The Bible, not because of my parents (I was raised atheist,) not because of word of mouth through my bishop, and not through teaching. I found salvation because I asked for it.

You must be a very lucky person, the one in a million that God actually loves - because the evidence provided above shows that He despises most humanity.

[Mary Etheldreda]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

That is for our Pastor to tell us and for us to judge ourselves.

How do you know your pastor is right? He could collect bellybutton flint in a jar by his bedside and believe that Jesus communicates to him through that for all you know, and you would trust him over the Word of Jesus? That's quite a career choice for a guy, isn't it? All he has to do is share his impression of what Jesus really meant to say and people have to believe him. And pay for his office space.

For one, I personally believe that most of Psalm is not to be taken seriously.

The LORD trieth the righteous:
but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.
Psalm 11:5

God would never hate anyone, no matter who they were. I see it as a metaphore. We must be cautious of hate. Lest we become those men who “loveth violence” ourselves.

As I see this as a metaphor of prayers chasing away sin:

Because God has spoken to me.

Maybe. But how could you know when your God is known to be misleading and confusing, and leave people for thousands of years to have the wrong idea? To kill for and die for the wrong idea?

I was in a dark place for a time. I was addicted to a substance which I wish not to elicit. I looked for salvation in God and found it. I have been free from my addiction for seven years. I have never been healthier nor happier.

Interestingly I've heard the same tale from people who attribute their healing to other religions, astrology, reading Tarot cards, or a gluten free diet. Fascinating how everyone thinks that while others are wrong in understanding God in some way, they're the ones who have it most right. Even when confronted with evidence to the contrary. But not you. You're the one who really got it right.

That is why I believe. Not because of The Bible, not because of my parents (I was raised atheist,) not because of word of mouth through my bishop, and not through teaching. I found salvation because I asked for it.

You found peace.

Ironically, there exist those who first leave their Mormon religion to finally find peace. Perhaps it's not the Mormon religion that offers a gateway to peace, but simply supports a new set of behaviors, offers a new set of friends, and supplies a new vocabulary.

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

When I say “asked” I don’t mean that I demanded it. What I meant was that I asked The Lord Jesus to show me the light.

How do you know you were talking to Jesus?

II CORINTHIANS 11 . KJV . whole chapter
13 Such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

To show me how to leave the place I was at and join Him in heaven.

What happened to the planet Kolob? I thought you were going there to make ghost babies? Don't your apostles proclaim that? Jesus never mentions anything about Kolob which would seem to be a critical element in LDS theology setting your "apostles" quite apart from The Apostles in The Bible. Whose ministers are they really?

[Force=ma]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

Salvation is not the result of any demands from us. It is a gift.

II CORINTHIANS 9 . KJV . look up
15 Thanks be unto God for his unspeakable gift.

When I say “asked” I don’t mean that I demanded it. What I meant was that I asked The Lord Jesus to show me the light. To show me how to leave the place I was at and join Him in heaven.