[WWJDnow]

Re: I am Catholic.

You tell me you don't go to Church? You tell me all of your worship is done in a closet?

We go to church. We don't pray during our church services, though. We listen to sermons, bear witness to the Resurrection, chastise sinners, shave the heads of women who show up without hats, and occasionally speak in tongues. I understand that there are several thousand prayer closets in the main chapel in Freehold (I'm moving up on the waitlist to get tickets, it looks like I'll be able to see for myself in late 2011!) for those moved by the Holy Ghost to prayer.

If we were in a group and I asked you to lead us in prayer would you deny it?

Yes, just as we would deny any sin. God told us not to pray in public. You even admitted it. So why are you so adamant now that it's a good thing to do. Could it be SATAN?

Matthew ch6 v12a [part of the Lord's Prayer] - "Forgive us our sins" If you do not (no longer) sin, then why do you - I assume you do - pray this prayer? If you have sinned, and have asked for forgiveness, why keep asking for forgiveness for sins you've been forgived for?

Forgived for? If you're going to spread your lies in our forums, would you at least have the decency to do it in proper English?

I don't believe that you haven't sinned today.

You're so filled with sin, you can't understand that Christians aren't.

Then came Peter to him, and said, "Lord, how oft shall my brother sin me, and I forgive him? Till seven times?" Jesus saith unto him, "I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven."

Peter's brother was obviously not Saved, so he sinned.

[-matty-]

Re: I am Catholic.

for all have sinned. It's past tense.

Now if we are all constantly sinning as you say, how can anyone abide in God?

Matthew ch6 v12a [part of the Lord's Prayer] - "Forgive us our sins" If you do not (no longer) sin, then why do you - I assume you do - pray this prayer? If you have sinned, and have asked for forgiveness, why keep asking for forgiveness for sins you've been forgived for?

I don't believe that you haven't sinned today. I do believe that if you ask God for forgiveness, he will forgive you and your sin is washed away. It makes no difference to me if you have sinned or not. I don't care what you may or may not have done in the past, or what you may or may not do in the future. I do know that you will be forgiven though. Of course, we shouldn't 'aim' to sin knowing that we will be forgiven, but as humans we do sin, even if it is only going 5mph over the speed limit or forgetting to indicate at a junction.

In effect, I guess you haven't sinned, because you have been forgiven for your sins so your sins - whether old or recent - have been washed away and no longer exist (and Praise the Lord for that!). If such is the case though, why not say that instead of saying you haven't sinned, especially with people who will not believe you on it?

As for Jesus' attitide to forgiveness, this is what he's said on the matter:

Matthew ch18 vv21-22:

Then came Peter to him, and said, "Lord, how oft shall my brother sin me, and I forgive him? Till seven times?" Jesus saith unto him, "I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven."

Of course, the literal translation to this is that we should only forgive people for 490 times. I have heard it said thaty by saying 'seventy times seven' was basically saying 'always' as 490 was a too high number for comprehension back then; while I don't agree with the latter part of that I do with the former bit.

[Meek and Humble]

Re: I am Catholic.

The only things you ever have to say are opinions.

Why don't you step down and let Heathen Basher do his work?

How dare you use my name as a tool in attacking our Godly Pastor?! After all this time I have spent talking to you, I feel very betrayed. If you continue to be so rude, I will simply put you on my ignore list.

[Meek and Humble]

Re: I am Catholic.

[QUOTE=Catholic - Not Christian;401633]Then you don't sin? Is that your claim?

Romans 3:23 "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God"

These passages are there to motivate you to do better! You want abideth in God? Sinneth not. Etc.
It is not because you abide in Him that you do not sin (your personal interpretation, contradicting scripture)
It is because you do not sin that you abide in Him. (congruent with scripture)[/quote]

for all have sinned. It's past tense.

Now if we are all constantly sinning as you say, how can anyone abide in God?

Wow. You really don't know what you're talking about.

Jesus tells everyone to eat His flesh and drink His blood. We cannot all individually crucify Christ. If this is really what he meant here, then what about the last supper? Do you not see a parallel? He tells them to eat his flesh, then at the last supper "take and eat, this is my body".

It's so simple! How can you deny it? Is it really that hard?

The Eucharist is foretold and prefigured.

Exodus 12:8, 46 - Paschal lamb had to be eaten
Exodus 16:15 - "This is the bread which the LORD has given you to eat" (manna)
Malachi 1:11 - "everywhere they bring sacrifice to my name, and a pure offering"
John 6:32-60 - (The Bread of Life discourse - Jesus refers back to the manna of the Old Testament. He is talking about real food here)

You are reading what you want into those passages. Here's what Jesus thinks of people who don't understand figures of speech concerning bread:



Matthew 16: 5And when his disciples were come to the other side, they had forgotten to take bread.
6Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.
7And they reasoned among themselves, saying, It is because we have taken no bread.
8Which when Jesus perceived, he said unto them, O ye of little faith, why reason ye among yourselves, because ye have brought no bread?
9Do ye not yet understand, neither remember the five loaves of the five thousand, and how many baskets ye took up?
10Neither the seven loaves of the four thousand, and how many baskets ye took up?
11How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees? 12Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

Allow me to quote one of your Landover Brothers/Sisters (My apologies, I can't tell from the picture)

"We don't believe the things Jesus said in parables."
-WWJDnow

Sounds to me like an outright rejection of what Jesus himself said.

Yes, we don't believe in them the way you do. We understand what Jesus was doing.

No. I believe He spoke in parables so that those who were not enlightened would not understand, such as the scribes and pharisees, however we, as Christians have an understanding of these parables.

What about these passages?

2 Thessalonians 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

1 Kings 22:23 Now, therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee.
2 Chronicles 18:22 Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets.
Jeremiah 4:10 Ah, Lord GOD! surely thou hast greatly deceived this people.
Jeremiah 20:7 O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived.
Ezekiel 14:9 And if a prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet.
John 12:40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

I believe that God is everywhere. Except Hell. Why? Because that is what Hell is!! It is a spiritual separation from God!
I just told you that...

Omnipresent means everywhere. It does not mean present everywhere except one place. And I just showed you Scripture that in no uncertain terms shows that even in hell God is present.

Opinion noted.

I have bolded all of the opinions you made in this post.

[Catholic - Not Christian]

Re: I am Catholic.

I do know. She was collecting a check. Shameful.

And why so? Does the Bible forbid it?

And there you have it in a nutshell. Catholics think that following the Word of God is a "minor issue."

Haha. Praying in public is a minor issue by comparison. Why? Because elsewhere I am disproving the KJV and asserting Roman Catholic authority.

And by these two points, all else will fall into place.

But thank you once again. You landovers just love to hand out your opinions.

[Catholic - Not Christian]

Re: I am Catholic.

..an opinion of your own?

Then you see my point. It is my opinion vs. yours. To what end would you have us argue about this simple picture?

I call BS (and I don't mean Biblical Science) You selected the ground here and you lost the battle.

You tell me you don't go to Church? You tell me all of your worship is done in a closet?
You deny the true intention of this passage. It is not to only pray in a closet. That it is not what it means. Period. If we were in a group and I asked you to lead us in prayer would you deny it? What are you, a closet worshiper? Do you really not pray in front of others?

Already explained - it's not there.

Don't even post your opinions. Please. You waste both of our time.

A straight forward lie on the part of rome. It is symbolic. "The Holy Bible, KJV1611, was written by men divinely inspired and is God's revelation of Himself to man. It is a perfect treasure of divine instruction. It has God for its author, salvation for its end, and truth, without any mixture of error, for its matter. Therefore, all Scripture is totally true and trustworthy.

Well first off, where did you quote this from?
Second, do they have the authority to claim the KJV correct?

[WWJDnow]

Re: I am Catholic.

What is this picture supposed to prove? Maybe she was ministering to her? You don't know.

I do know. She was collecting a check. Shameful.

Public displays of faith. Aka, advertising your religion by praying in public for the purpose of public viewing. This is not the intention of this video anymore than a cross on the side of the road is for the intention of converting. This is however, a minor issue.

And there you have it in a nutshell. Catholics think that following the Word of God is a "minor issue."

[Justina Thyme]

Re: I am Catholic.

Well, let's just get down to basics here, Mr. "I Am Catholic." The word "catholic" is defined as:


cath⋅o⋅lic

  /ˈkæθəlɪk, ˈkæθlɪk/

Show Spelled Pronunciation [kath-uh-lik, kath-lik] Show IPA

Use catholic in a Sentence

See web results for catholic

See images of catholic

–adjective 1. broad or wide-ranging in tastes, interests, or the like; having sympathies with all; broad-minded; liberal. 2. universal in extent; involving all; of interest to all. 3. pertaining to the whole Christian body or church.

Origin: 1300–1350; ME < L catholicus < Gk katholikós general, equiv. to kathól(ou) universally (contr. of phrase katà hólou according to the whole; see cata-, holo- ) + -ikos

Related forms: ca⋅thol⋅i⋅cal⋅ly, ca⋅thol⋅ic⋅ly  /kəˈθɒlɪkli/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [kuh-thol-ik-lee] Show IPA , adverb


A thesaurus gives us the following information:


Main Entry: catholic

Part of Speech: adjective

Definition: all-embracing, general

Synonyms: all-inclusive, charitable, comprehensive, cosmic, cosmopolitan, diffuse, eclectic, ecumenical, extensive, generic, global, inclusive, indeterminate, large-scale, liberal, open-minded, unbigoted, universal, unprejudiced, unsectarian, whole, wide, world-wide

Notes: Catholic means of broad or liberal scope

Antonyms: narrow, specific

Main Entry: broad-minded

Part of Speech: adjective

Definition: liberal

Synonyms: advanced, dispassionate, flexible, free-thinking, indulgent, liberal, open, open-minded, permissive, progressive, radical, receptive, tolerant, unbiased, unbigoted, undogmatic, unprejudiced


Now, do any of these definitions or synonyms fit the declarations and definitions of True Christianity™ as given here at Landover Baptist? Of course not--in fact, just the opposite! By no means are we progressive, radical, eclectic, permissive, universal, cosmic, or any of the other words in that literary dump (may God forgive me) I've assembled above. You see, we have our instructions, and they are very specific and very clear--the 1611 King James Version of the Holy Bible. In that Book, we are given all the information and direction needed by anyone to lead a good, pure True Christian™ life.

As far as your calling yourself a Christian: It's time to either fish or cut bait. Unless you actually enjoy losing debate after debate with our learned Church Pastors while putting into jeopardy your God-given immortal soul--for which Jesus died!--you had better concede that we are right and you are wrong. We are right because we heed the Holy Writ of the 1611 King James Holy Bible, the divine and infallible Word of a loving and just God, and you are wrong because you do not.

End of discussion.

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: I am Catholic.

What is this picture supposed to prove? Maybe she was ministering to her? You don't know.

..an opinion of your own? Looks like "consorting with the enemy" to me or as you would put it, "Helping Satan with his works."

Public displays of faith. Aka, advertising your religion by praying in public for the purpose of public viewing. This is not the intention of this video [...] This is however, a minor issue.

I call BS (and I don't mean Biblical Science) You selected the ground here and you lost the battle.

We have bigger things to discuss: Such as the Primacy of Peter,

Already explained - it's not there.

the Eucharist,

A straight forward lie on the part of rome. It is symbolic.

and whether or not parables are valid scripture.

"The Holy Bible, KJV1611, was written by men divinely inspired and is God's revelation of Himself to man. It is a perfect treasure of divine instruction. It has God for its author, salvation for its end, and truth, without any mixture of error, for its matter. Therefore, all Scripture is totally true and trustworthy.

[Catholic - Not Christian]

Re: I am Catholic.

You mean like this photo of Mother Teresa with Baby Doc Duvalier's wife?

You really believe that God wanted one of His servants to validate the brutal Duvalier dictatorship? God is love, so no way did he support that monster. Ergo, Teresa wasn't God's servant.

What is this picture supposed to prove? Maybe she was ministering to her? You don't know.

{Opinions deleted by yours truly }

If your just going to get angry and tell me how "wrong" you think I am...

Go punch a pillow or something. I want scripture, history, facts. I don't care about your opinions.

Finally, you hit upon a truth. We are not to pray in public. So, please explain this travesty:

Public displays of faith. Aka, advertising your religion by praying in public for the purpose of public viewing. This is not the intention of this video anymore than a cross on the side of the road is for the intention of converting. This is however, a minor issue. We have bigger things to discuss: Such as the Primacy of Peter, the Eucharist, and whether or not parables are valid scripture.

[WWJDnow]

Re: I am Catholic.

Do a little honest research. Please.

You mean like this photo of Mother Teresa with Baby Doc Duvalier's wife?

You really believe that God wanted one of His servants to validate the brutal Duvalier dictatorship? God is love, so no way did he support that monster. Ergo, Teresa wasn't God's servant.

For we sin constantly.

Yes, you Catholics do sin constantly. I, however, haven't committed a sin since I was Saved.

In the same way that we believe the Ten Commandments to not only apply to the Israelites, Catholics recognize this commandment as applying to everyone as well.

Of course the Ten Commandments don't apply just to the Israelites. God doesn't want people like Catholics making graven images of things in Heaven and genuflecting to them. He said that plain as day.

Flesh and blood under the appearance of bread and wine. Just like the Last Supper.

I'm telling you, I've seen someone puke after the Eucharist, and it wasn't flesh or blood. It was bad wine and a stale cookie.

Are you catching on now?

Yes, I am. Only evildoers eat human flesh. Thanks for that explanation.

That is the ONLY thing it could of been. Unless however, you recognize that he was NOT in fact speaking metaphorically.

Why do people who are losing an argument start using ALL CAPS for emphasis? You must be MENTALLY DEFECTIVE. I'll pray for you.

You need to understand that we are not Jewish, we are Catholic.

Thanks for letting us know. I wasn't sure.

Pray in secret is all this verse commands. This forbids public displays of faith, for that is not the purpose or prayer. Prayer is between us and God, and no one needs to observe.

Finally, you hit upon a truth. We are not to pray in public. So, please explain this travesty:

[Catholic - Not Christian]

Re: I am Catholic.

You have already forsaken God's commandments and abused the Free Will that He bestowed upon us by choosing to worship the roman pope (aka whore of babylon).

The only things you ever have to say are opinions.

Why don't you step down and let Heathen Basher do his work?

[Catholic - Not Christian]

Re: I am Catholic.

Yes. If you fell away you were never actually saved. True Christians never sin.

Romans 5:14 Death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned.
1 John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not.
1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not.
3 John 11 He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God. [/FONT]

Then you don't sin? Is that your claim?

Romans 3:23 "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God"

These passages are there to motivate you to do better! You want abideth in God? Sinneth not. Etc.
It is not because you abide in Him that you do not sin (your personal interpretation, contradicting scripture)
It is because you do not sin that you abide in Him. (congruent with scripture)

Do you deny that your Jesus died for your sins?

Wow. You really don't know what you're talking about.

Jesus tells everyone to eat His flesh and drink His blood. We cannot all individually crucify Christ. If this is really what he meant here, then what about the last supper? Do you not see a parallel? He tells them to eat his flesh, then at the last supper "take and eat, this is my body".

It's so simple! How can you deny it? Is it really that hard?

The Eucharist is foretold and prefigured.

Exodus 12:8, 46 - Paschal lamb had to be eaten
Exodus 16:15 - "This is the bread which the LORD has given you to eat" (manna)
Malachi 1:11 - "everywhere they bring sacrifice to my name, and a pure offering"
John 6:32-60 - (The Bread of Life discourse - Jesus refers back to the manna of the Old Testament. He is talking about real food here)

We don't deny it. We simply understand it, unlike you.

Allow me to quote one of your Landover Brothers/Sisters (My apologies, I can't tell from the picture)

"We don't believe the things Jesus said in parables."
-WWJDnow

Sounds to me like an outright rejection of what Jesus himself said.

But anyway, do you agree that God often lies to sinners to confuse them so they won't be saved?

No. I believe He spoke in parables so that those who were not enlightened would not understand, such as the scribes and pharisees, however we, as Christians have an understanding of these parables.

So you don't think God is omnipresent? Do you also deny His omniscience and omnipotency?

I believe that God is everywhere. Except Hell. Why? Because that is what Hell is!! It is a spiritual separation from God!
I just told you that...

I'm aware of what these verses mean. You are being CHILDISH in a bad way, instead of becoming like a little child in the good way.

Opinion noted.

[Meek and Humble]

Re: I am Catholic.

Again, it doesn't say if you believe once you're good forever. You can always choose to stop.

Note that these are all external forces acting upon you. Never does the Bible say that no action of our own could remove us Christ's Love. We can always turn away.

Note again, all external forces. And another note, that Sin is not mentioned. Not once. By choosing Sin you reject God's teachings, but rejecting God's teachings, you reject God's love. You can always remove yourself from God's love.

IF we hold our confidence to the END. See? You can fall away. All the way up to that last moment. It's always a choice.

Yup. Though Baptism and repentance we are brought to life in Christ. But, it doesn't say we can fall away... You have been saved, but you can still leave. Unless you believe that, because it is written in the past tense, it is a done deal. If this is the case, then we are "sitting together in heavenly places" already are we not? For that is also in the past tense?
No, this passage simply urges people to remember their grim past that they were dead in sin, as so that they do not return.

And what is your claim here I wonder? That we can be saved without any faith? None at all? Doesn't this contradict scripture?
Did you read the verse just before?

"If we have died with him we shall also live with him; if we persevere we shall also reign with him. But if we deny him he will deny us" 2 Timothy: 11-12(emphasis added)

Perseverance. Why do we need to persevere if we were saved once and it was done?

Hahaha. Our Bibles read differently here. Where yours claims it is a "guarantee" mine here reads "first installment". Please see my thread about the errors of the KJV:

http://www.landoverbaptist.net/showthread.php?t=29097&page=3

But what can we agree on? Im sure you would agree that we are sealed with the Holy Spirit at Baptism... But that seems to be just about it. Allow me to offer another verse speaking of Baptism as the first installment:

"he has also put his seal upon us and given the Spirit in our hearts as a first installment." 2 Corinthians 1:22

But even if your "bible" also says here that it is "guarantee" then why must we persevere as stated in 2 Timothy? You will see, the KJV is full of such errors.

Yes... He obtained it. But no where does it say that you are forced to accept it. And no where does it say that you cannot later deny it.

Ok. Now for my part. I see you give many verses talking about being saved as a done deal. It's already happened, you're bound for heaven, right? For example:

Romans 8:24 - for in hope you were saved
Ephesians 2:5, 8 - by grace you have been saved through faith
2 Timothy 1:9 - he saved us, called us, according too his grace
Titus 3:5 - he saved us through the bath of rebirth, renewed by the Holy Spirit


But it is also spoken of in a present tense, as an ongoing act:



Present Event: I am being saved
Philippians 2:12 - work out your salvation with fear and trembling
1 Peter 1:9 - as you attain the goal of your faith, salvation


And even more so in a future tense, one that has not yet happened:



Future Event: I hope to be saved
Matthew 10:22 - he who endures to the end will be saved
Matthew 24:13 - he who perseveres to the end will be saved
Mark 8:3-5 - whoever loses his life for my sake will save it
Acts 15:11 - we will be saved through the grace of Jesus
Romans 5:9-10 - since we are justified, we shall be saved
Romans 13:11 - salvation is nearer now, then first believed
1 Corinthians 3:15 - he will be saved, but only as through fire
1 Corinthians 5:5 - deliver the evil man's natural life to Satan so his spirit may be saved on the Day of the Lord
Hebrews 9:28 - Jesus will appear a second time to bring salvation

Christ tells the apostles at the Last Supper to remain in his love. He adds that if we keep his commandments we will remain in his love. But he who does not remain in his love is "cast forth as a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned" (John 15:6). Now, if salvation were a done deal, why would Jesus feel the need to tell anyone to remain in his love? It would be like locking a person in a closet and telling them to remain there. If they are unable to leave, it is senseless to ask them to remain.

In Romans 11:22, Paul says, "Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off."

In Galatians 5:4, Paul says, "You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace."

I can't say it more plainly that scripture itself. You can fall away. Do you deny it?

Yes. If you fell away you were never actually saved. True Christians never sin.

Romans 5:14 Death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned.
1 John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not.
1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not.
3 John 11 He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.

Then your claim is that we must all individually assault Christ? The passage says that we must all take part of this so... Is this what you do?

Do you deny that your Jesus died for your sins?

You, as a Christian, are "supposed" to have an understanding like the Apostles. You have no authority to reject part of Scripture. We as Christians have an enlightened view of the Parables, unlike Scribes and the Pharisees and those that still dwell in sin. We can understand. We are not told to deny them. You have no right to deny Holy Scripture.

We don't deny it. We simply understand it, unlike you. But anyway, do you agree that God often lies to sinners to confuse them so they won't be saved?

2 Thessalonians 1:9 - "pay the penalty of eternal ruin, separated from the presence of the Lord"

And we seem to be at a direct contradiction.
I see this psalm as a figurative way of stating that God is always there. But surely you agree that God is not within wicked people? Why then would He be in a wicked place? Thessalonians agrees.

So you don't think God is omnipresent? Do you also deny His omniscience and omnipotency?

This entire passage speaks of love and not of faith, which you must have as a child: "Unless you be converted, and become as little children, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven" Mathew 18:3

This was only written to chastise the Corinthians for their pride of tongues as a sign of God's favor, a means of direct communication with Him. This in no way undermines the fact that we must "become as little children"

This teaches that we must not be easily swayed in our faith. And also in no way undermines that we must "become as little children".
These verses were all taken out of context.

I'm aware of what these verses mean. You are being CHILDISH in a bad way, instead of becoming like a little child in the good way.

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: I am Catholic.

Does this mean I should forsake His commandments? Does this mean I should not worship? Does this mean I should dwell in sin? Do you deny that we have free will to follow God?

You have already forsaken God's commandments and abused the Free Will that He bestowed upon us by choosing to worship the roman pope (aka whore of babylon).