[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: Just for Remy Lebeau (Pedophillia)

It's not over for Catholicism yet.

Hold on, I'm just checking my watch... You're right! There's probably a couple of hours to go.

I'm very willing to have a shot at tricking you into believing that it is true,

Fixed that for you.

since we stated many times that we wrote the Bible.

In much the same way that you said you never fiddled with kiddies.

Therefore, i will debate and prove that the Catholic Church is Biblical!

We could start with something easy like transubstantiation.

Jesus: Lu:22:19: And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do (i.e. break bread) in remembrance of me.

Simply, Jesus is braking the bread and saying, this represents me - when you do this, think about me. This is why we say Grace before a meal (I assume Catlix do this.)

We must realise that Jesus got that bread from a small store round the corner and the baker had no idea what Jesus was going to use it for - so we can assume that it was a perfectly ordinary piece of bread.

Now, if it were His body, it would be just that - not a remembrance of Jesus - it would be the real thing.

Another point: I don't know how many times you have tried to break a piece off a body, but it is really difficult - When God made bodies, He made them well.

And finally, why should Jesus do a miracle at the last supper? Jesus came to save the unbelievers - the disciples were saved. They had seen hundreds of miracles - no... He's giving His "going-away for a few days" speech to His friends.

Do I think that Catlix believe there is the miracle of transubstantiation? No. Let me quote from your Chief Fishhead:

MYSTERIUM FIDEI
ENCYCLICAL OF POPE PAUL VI
ON THE HOLY EUCHARIST

11. To give an example of what We are talking about, it is not permissible to … concentrate on the notion of sacramental sign as if the symbolism—which no one will deny is certainly present in the Most Blessed Eucharist … the marvelous conversion of the whole substance of the bread into the Body and the whole substance of the wine into the Blood of Christ, as if … Christ Our Lord is no longer present in the consecrated Hosts that remain after the celebration of the sacrifice of the Mass has been completed.

Here we see even the pope knows that catholics don't believe in transubstantiation - he has to give them some bullshit that probably even he does not believe.

15. First of all, We want to recall something that you know very well but that is absolutely necessary if the virus of every kind of rationalism is to be repelled;

16. And so we must approach this mystery in particular with humility and reverence, not relying on human reasoning,
SEPTEMBER 3, 1965

So he tells catholics to ignore what they see and experience and know.

Your move.

[Romeo Rovagnati]

Re: Just for Remy Lebeau (Pedophillia)

It's not over for Catholicism yet. I'm very willing to prove that it is true, since we stated many times that we wrote the Bible. Therefore, i will debate and prove that the Catholic Church is Biblical!

















Of course, i will have first to take care of my Church and partecipate Cathechism, so it will take time before i'll declare myself ready for the challenge. Who knows when i will be aviable...

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: Just for Remy Lebeau (Pedophillia)

Brother Remy,

Masterly! An exhibition bout! I have copied it to Landover Archives where it will be inscribed on vellum and tooled with gold.

[Remy Lebeau]

Re: Just for Remy Lebeau (Pedophillia)

OFFICIAL LANDOVER BAPTIST CHURCH DEBATE VERDICT®
REMY LEBEAU -- CLEAR WINNER WITH TRUTH ON HIS SIDE.
SACRED HEART -- SMASHED, DESTROYED, AND PUMMELED.

I want to personally extend my hand in congratulations to Brother Remy for obliterating that slick Catholic apologist "Sacred Heart" in debate. It comes as no surprise as the last three victims to fall to his debating skills were Catholics. See, Brother Remy is professional at what he does. Sacred Heart shouldn't feel embarrassed or sullen over it all. He simply lost to one of the greatest debaters and defenders of Christ there is. No shame there.

Way to nail that unsaved papist, Brother Remy!

Thank you for your kind words.

It was all too easy. I was going to change my signature, but I think he has actually killed himself this time. If not from shame of being a hellbound pedophile support, then from to relieve himself of the pain of the beating I gave him.

[Rev. Jim Osborne]

Re: Just for Remy Lebeau (Pedophillia)

OFFICIAL LANDOVER BAPTIST CHURCH DEBATE VERDICT(r)
REMY LEBEAU -- CLEAR WINNER WITH TRUTH ON HIS SIDE.
SACRED HEART -- SMASHED, DESTROYED, AND PUMMELED.

I want to personally extend my hand in congratulations to Brother Remy for obliterating that slick Catholic apologist "Sacred Heart" in debate. It comes as no surprise as the last three victims to fall to his debating skills were Catholics. See, Brother Remy is professional at what he does. Sacred Heart shouldn't feel embarrassed or sullen over it all. He simply lost to one of the greatest debaters and defenders of Christ there is. No shame there.

Way to nail that unsaved papist, Brother Remy!

[Vavoline Johnson]

Re: Just for Remy Lebeau (Pedophillia)

Im here to tell you it aint boring at all! That mass was a heck of a lot a fun cause them catlicks do some real funny stuff when there in mass..

.

Well lemme tell you a lil bout da catlick church. They cheaper than da Joos, dat fo sure. We went cause we heard they were givin out wine and biscuits and all we got for standing in line was a sip of some ghastly tastin stuff from a used cup and a cracker da size of a dime. Now, Cleevon was raise a catlick and I asked him "how come you da only alter boy dat was never molested by yo priest" Didn't he read they gave out a lot o money fo dat kind of thing. Damn, he coulda lied bout it.................

[Emil Sledge]

Re: Just for Remy Lebeau (Pedophillia)

[Remy Lebeau]

Re: Just for Remy Lebeau (Pedophillia)

By insinuating that the Pope cannot sin and is incapable of error you fail to understand the meaning of Vicar, which is merely to perform the actions of another in their stead. It does not mean that you will perfectly "become" that person and act EXACTLY as they would. He is Christ's representative, don't give him more credit than he is due

I'm not a idolatrous pagan papist. I have never insinuated that the Pope is infallible. Catholics, like you, have made that claim. If you continue this line of strawman statements I will end this discussion. This applies for all the other strawmen you continue to use throughout the rest of your post. This is your first and final warning. If you cannot formulate an counter argument then admit it and move on. You've already lost the debate and you can't be double defeated. Do not make up weak arguments, attribute them to me and then tear them down.

Say that the hierarchy of the Catholic Church is sinning right now at this very moment. Does that negate the truths of the Catholic Church? You say if they repented then that would be okay. So does the truth they preach become less truthful while they dwell in sin? And then when they repent, it become full truth once more?

Another repeat statement that has already been addressed ad nauseam. You are purposely ignoring my responses because you have no counter argument. This particular line of discussion is over. Your intellectual dishonesty constitutes your forfeiture.

Now who had the greater sin? Does it matter? Are you arguing that if anyone commits a sin greater than denying Jesus three times, then all truth will cease to come from them? Are they damned right at that moment? Is that what Scripture says? Nope.

No, I am not arguing the point you pulled out of thin air all on your own.

Does it matter in the end? No. Ultimately, Hell is still Hell for the unrepentent serial rapist and the person who had behaved admirably, but failed to accept Christ. However, some sins are greater than others regardless.

The Pope continues to protect pedophiles. Where are the executions in Vatican square? (Leviticus 20:13) When did he at least turn over all the priest to the police and give them all the case file documentation from the Vatican vaults? No empty decree changes anything. At this moment in time, if the pope died, after the Resurrection he would go to Hell as an unrepentent.

And I have said that this makes no difference whatsoever. Yet you ignored it. See above, starting with "

I said that...

A.) they are not equal sins

and

B.) that Peter repented and your pope did not. THAT MAKES A DIFFERENCE!!!!

Romans 3:3-4 - will their infidelity nullify the fidelity of God? No!

Again, already addressed.

33%??? I know you're not talking about priests here! You would never make such a ridiculous claim, and you dont even offer a source to back it up!

Allow me:

Meanwhile, 1.7% of theCatholic clergy has been found guilty of pedophilia.

Because 31.3% are being protected.

I think reading the next verse will do you well:

"Therefore, you are without excuse, every one of you who passes judgment. For by the standard by which you judge another you condemn yourself..." (Romans 2:1)

Perhaps you should read the entire passage instead of taking one verse out of context like the salad bar psuedo christian you are.

"Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things. And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?" - Romans 2:1-3

The above applies when I judge another on something that I am guilty of myself. As I am incapable of sin (1 John 3:1-10), I can judge any sinner because I am without guilt. This is a reiterance of Matthew 7:3-5.

Yes, Crimen Sollicitationis was a sin. A terrible sin. However, it is no longer in effect.

Your clergy would be a third lighter if that were truly the case. Empty decrees are... well, empty. I am not going to perpetually go back and forth with you on this. This particular line of discussion is over.

You poor man. You are so confused without the guidance of the Church! How could you possibly hope understand the Word without the help of Christ's Church that indeed defined that Word?

Defined it? YOU, mortal men?!?!?! If you "defined" it then we would not be in disagreement. The Holy Spirit inspires me and shows me Truth, not the Roman Catholic Cult. Get thee off your high horse and behind me, satan!!!

Do I "yoke" these priests to myself as you say? NO! I do not support these men in any way shape or form.

Of course you do, as I explain already in my previous post. Again, you stick your fingers in your ears, close your eyes and hum as loudly as possible. It is like talking to a wall. This line of discourse is over. Your intellectual dishonesty has once again dictated your forfeiture.

They are not my leader by choice.

So you were forced into catholicism???

....

I didn't think so.

That is the problem with Protestant theology. You all just move from Church to Church until you find one that suits YOUR theology and what you THINK it should be. Just like Martin Luther, you change what has been taught for thousands of years into your own twisted views of what you WANT it to say.

There is no such thing as "Catholics vs Protestants". You do not follow the Bible, therefore you are just as much another drop in the pond of false christian churches. Just another church out of thousands. Don't kid yourself. As if a catholic who didn't like what the church was spewing wouldn't leave and go to another church. Or, as most do, they just ignore the pope and everything associated with catholicism and just claim to be catholic (like secular jews) and live secular lives. Are you really so dense?

My church is the Holy Bible and those who, inspired by the Holy Spirit, believe in it. That simple. If you're not a part of my church then you are with satan - period. There are True Christians and then there is everybody else. "Everybody else", which includes atheist, scientologist, western rites catholics, episcopalians, buddhist, false baptists, eastern rites catholics, hindus, anglicans, muslims, shintoist, eastern orthodoxy, gnostics, mormons, pastafarians, etc. are all equally godless unsaved trash.

You deny the Bible by denying Apostolic Succession. Priests ARE the successors of Christ's Apostles. They have passed on their role through the laying of hands over the centuries during the process of Holy Orders. This is found in the Bible:

Post all the OUT OF CONTEXT verses that in no way, shape or form valid the existence of the Roman Catholic Pagan Mafia in any way whatsoever. Even if you did quote them in context, they still don't say anything about the formation of the catholic cult. You are inferring!!! You spout nothing but conjecture!!! You didn't reading those verses and come to the conclusion that a Roman Catholic Cult exists. Instead, you were taught a lie and then assigned a desired meaning to completely unrelated verses after the fact to try and back up your theory. You should be an evolutionist! There is nothing in the Bible which states your claims. End of discussion.

Christianity was in Rome 20 years before Peter ever arrived and Bishops of Rome did not have any power anywhere close to that of the Pope. Your church history is nothing but myths and legends.

These verses apply to us all! The Catholic Church has and will remain the vehicle of God's Word despite their sins, though this depends on the Fidelity of God.

No, those verses say that God's Word is not false because you choose to be a hypocrite. It says nothing about you, as a mortal man, being able to sin and claim holiness because God is Holy. This has already been addressed. Instead of admitting you have no case you try pull a weak position out of thin air and attack it. If you want to argue against yourself, be my guess. Don't drag me into it.

It clearly shows that our infidelity cannot nullify the fidelity of God.

Strawman. Never said God was at fault for your sins. I've said before, "The Holy Bible KJV1611 is our "dogma". If we, as a church, allowed gays to marry, pastors to molested our children, if our women were loose, if our children were spared spankings and if we preached evolution... how would Jesus judge us? Could we simply fall back on the idea that the Bible is infallible and therefore our church was of Christ? Of course not. Don't be absurd."

I made my point ON THE FIRST PAGE. So why are you still regurgitating the same material. Clearly, your only recourse, given your gigantic pride, was to ignore this simply truth and repeat yourself like a broken record. This line of discussion is over. I will no longer play these games with you.

You make a claim here that Paul clearly forbids. You blame the entire Catholic faith (the Church of Christ itself!) for the actions of those falsely claiming to be His faithful servants. This does not nullify their teachings. Nothing can nullify the Word of God.

I have never said that you molested anyone. I have never said that their sin is your sin. The sin of your priests, in this case, is molesting little boys. Your sin, as a congregation, is allowing them to go unpunished. The pope has no power other than what YOU give him. Without your support he is nothing but a senile old man wearing a dress, living in luxury, flailing a sceptre and sporting a babylonian fish hat. End of story.

This is what YOU are guilty of: Romans 1:31-32, 2 John 1:9-10

This is what THE PRIESTS are guilty of: Leviticus 20:13

Because you are complacent with THE PRIESTS' sins, you are guilty of YOUR sin.

(Romans 11:1-11) Although Isreal has been unfaithful to the prophetic message of the gospel (Also see Romans 10:14-21), God remains faithful to Israel. Proof of divine fidelity lies in the existence of a few Jewish Christians like Paul himself.

God keeps His promises. A promise that was not made to your church. So what IS your point? Going off on another fabricated tirade? Why oh why do you even have the nerve to insinuate that I would claim God is two-faced? My problem is not with God, but your pagan institution. Your church wasn't even formed until 313 AD (unless you want to count its pagan origins). The first pope didn't show up until around 440 AD. There was no succession. A pope existing in the face of systematic persecution and executions of the christian populations??? Are you kidding me? Are you honestly THAT naive?!?!

(Psalm 89: 30-37) "I will establish his dynasty forever, his throne as the days of the heavens. If his descendants forsake my law, do not follow my decrees, if they fail to observe my statutes do not keep my commandments, I will punish their crime with a rod and their guilt with lashes. But I will not take my love from him, nor will I betray my bond of loyalty. I will not violate my covenant; the promise of my lips I will not alter. By my holiness I swore once for all: I will never be false to David. His dynasty will continue forever, his throne, like the sun before me."

Jesus will never forsake His love for us! He will punish us, but because of our sin is no reason for Him to withdraw His Truth which He has entrusted us with.

He is not talking about your church. If you continue to pretend that we both agree that your church is of God, or that there is anything in the Bible referring to the formation of your church, I will ban you. The very concept of such an agreement between us, in the context of this conversation, is nonsensical. If the Bible mentioned your church we wouldn't be having this discussion. I will not play these games. This idiotic line of discussion is over. You forfeit this portion as well due once again to your intellectual dishonesty.

You did not answer my question as to what those verses meant to you. How do you interpret them?

Quote each of them and I will respond to each individually. Seeing as our discussions concerning most of the topics we genuinely had, and those you made up, are over anyway. And while you're at it, from now on quote every verse you use. None of this paraphrasing.

Perhaps you could be more specific in your question? Are you asking if the Church teaches what is taught in the Bible?

No, I cannot and will not be more specific. I care about THE WHOLE BIBLE. Not this or that verse. The question was clear as day.

Is the Vatican enacting Biblical Law? Yes or No?

No more stalling. Answer the question or don't bother to reply at all because I'll delete your post. And you better answer it yes or no. As God is my witness, if you answer that question with a question or another strawman I will ban you. I'm not going to play games with you.

I'm discussing Marian dogmas on another thread but if you would like to discuss Purgatory, I'll get the ball rolling:

There you go. Just a few biblical references to Purgatory Have at it!

Just skimming over your paraphrasing, I don't see anything about purgatory. As I said before, quote the actual verses. No paraphrasing. I'm not going to do the work for you. I'm not going to waste my time looking up all those verses when I'm 99.9999999999999999... no, 100% sure they don't tell us that purgatory exists.

[James Hutchins]

Re: Just for Remy Lebeau (Pedophillia)

HB, I personally feel the pope gets the job by breaking a few kneecaps. I am surprised they allow a non-Sicilian to have the job though.

[Meek and Humble]

Re: Just for Remy Lebeau (Pedophillia)

See, it's just this sort of attitude that bothers me. When I was growing up in my Catholic family, I always noticed how lazy and indifferent the majority of Catholics were. They just really did not seem to care at all about what their church taught, and all did what they wanted. Not all mind you, but most of them. They would not say the responses in mass, they would sit down when they were supposed to kneel because they got tired. The choir would sing, but nobody sang along. They got communion every week, even though you are only allowed to take it in a state of grace. They would eat before going to mass even though you were supposed to have fasted an hour before receiving communion. They never went to confession, saying they confessed to God and that was good enough for them. They would leave before mass was over so they could beat the traffic. A lot of them just showed up at mass when it was convenient for them, some only on Christmas and Easter (and not even on the other Holy Days of Obligation). A lot of them also tended to be liberals with political views that went far away from the official Catholic teachings. These people would never discuss religion out of church, never tried to convert people, acted downright ashamed of their faith.

Then of course there was the minority who actually did do things right, and they were probably even worse. These are the kind of people who would keep rosaries in their cars as good luck charms, who would actually talk to their little statues as though they could hear them, who would make the sign of the cross in vain at any moment of slight discomfort or distress.

Of course, the priests and were no better. They never corrected any of their congregation on these matters. No, they remained silent, and were ordered to by their superiors NOT to tell people if they sinned. The priests are taught to keep all their homilies to be happy and positive, lest they should lose any collection plate money. Catholics will actually call the office of their bishop if they feel their priest is being to preachy. They are spineless cowards, these priests and bishops, who ignore Christ's commands:


Matthew 18: 15Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
16But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

These lazy men you have in charge, happy to sit in the lap of luxury on their parishioners dime, but not willing to stir the pot by telling the truth. Letting liberal priests and nuns who run more and more rampant spouting off all kinds of blasphemies like support of gay marriage, birth control, abortion, you name it. No wonder you people can't even find young people anymore who want to sign up for vocations!

See, it is not just on the basis of my interpretation of the Bible that I disagree with Catholics. It is their total attitude. Jesus said by its fruit we shall know a tree - well, I see no good fruit from the Catholic tree. I much happier being in a church that actually cares about what God wants. But anyway, as for your talk about the primacy of Peter in the church, and that Peter was held above the other Apostles, and that there can only be on Holy Catholic church, how do you interpret this:



Matthew 18: 18Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. (And yes, here He is talking to all of the Apostles, note the beginning of this discourse at the start of chapter 18).
19Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. 20For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Any gathering of even two or three. Seems to support the Baptist position of small individual local churches more than the hierarchical global church.



Speaking of your church hierarchy, I'm a little confused by how the Pope is elected. It is by the will of God, am I correct? But the Cardinals vote for him. So the Cardinals decision is inspired by God? Yet as I understand the vote need only be 2/3 for a Pope to win. What of that other 1/3 of the Cardinals? Were they not inspired by God to make the right choose? Was Satan possessing them? Often even I hear they may take a long while to reach a decision until they get a majority vote. So some of those Cardinals must be switching their votes around? What took them so long to pick the guy God wanted? For that matter, why do they vote? Don't you guys use the picking up Matthias as the new apostle as the basis of Apostolic succession? If that's the case, why don't you do like they did and draw lots?

[Emil Sledge]

Re: Just for Remy Lebeau (Pedophillia)

Is the entire catholic religion as boring as you are?

Im here to tell you it aint boring at all! That mass was a heck of a lot a fun cause them catlicks do some real funny stuff when there in mass. They seem like a kinda figity bunch cause aint a one a them can sit still for very long. Hey they have these little dishes of water by all the doors and they all dip there dirty fingers in them then wipe off on there forheads and there clothes like they all tryin to share each others filth. Dont know where some a them catlick fingers have been but I bet I know so I didnt touch the water no way.

I also seen this one gal dressed in black and white robes and she were old probly some bodys gramma. Well when we were there early we seen her come shufflin in and she went over in front a this one big statue of a lady in blue and white robes and she was a real pretty statue kinda made me think of Lola but she dont wear robes and the lady in the staue dont look all that happy. Anyhoo, this gal in the black and white robes she goes over and she lights this little candle in front of the lady statue and she got down on her knees in front a the lady and she bowed her head and she were playin with some beads too for maybe five minutes. Then she left and we never seen her again. It was creepy as the dickins. She looked at us and Hank was a smilin like Cheshire Cat and she didnt smile at all looked kinda like she coulda taken us apart. I was glad we didnt have to tangle with her for sure. Hank makes this sound like a penguin and thats when we started laughin and couldnt stop for nothin. I wana try again to watch a mass but not with Hank downstairs cause he gets me to laughin and we got throwed out and then he almost got me killed after that anyhoo.

[James Hutchins]

Re: Just for Remy Lebeau (Pedophillia)

OMG, are you still drolling on because Helloween is coming and you want to imitate the night of the living dead?

Remy obliterated you, there is no argument. You are a dead dog on a freeway having been rolled over by the tire of fifty overladen tractor trailers. You are dead, flattened, history.
There is no defense for any pedophile. Most of all, for a person who is in a position of supposed authority and trust. Then to top it off, the entire catlick mafia walks away refusing to do what is right and just. All they do is protect one of their capos.

[crazychick]

Re: Just for Remy Lebeau (Pedophillia)

Is the entire catholic religion as boring as you are?

[Sacred Heart]

Re: Just for Remy Lebeau (Pedophillia)

No, you were conferring with priests to figure out what you were going to say. It is very telling that it took you THIS long to come up with a defense. and even then you skipped some points and made strawman arguments for others. Sadly, you're too late. Debate rules dictate that you surrendered. Making up stories about your internet being lost is no excuse. You either forget about the thread or your internet was down: Which is it?

If you must know, my internet was down and by the time I had returned to this website, I had forgotten. I have never consulting my priest about how to deal with you.

Where did I say that the Pope claimed to be God? Exactly, I didn't. Nice strawman argument. I said he claimed to be His vicar and that's what I meant.

By insinuating that the Pope cannot sin and is incapable of error you fail to understand the meaning of Vicar, which is merely to perform the actions of another in their stead. It does not mean that you will perfectly "become" that person and act EXACTLY as they would. He is Christ's representative, don't give him more credit than he is due

If you state that the Pope is God's vicar then you are stating that God supports pedophiles and homosexuality because the Pope sure does and he is supposedly His representative.

Again, you suggest that the Pope is incapable of error. He is NOT Christ, just his representative, and can sin just as you and I. The Popes infallibility does not pass beyond acts of Church Doctrine. This scandal is not a doctrine of the Church. It is NOT the Word of God.

You also would have to conclude that God has forsaken His own laws, seeing as the Vatican is a soveriegn state yet DOES NOT enforce biblical law!!! THAT IS BLASPHEMY!!!!

Again, the Pope could be sinning right now, but the problem that you simply cannot grasp is that he has never made an official doctrine dictating that all abusive priests must be kept from prosecution. You might as well be suggesting that because the Pope curses the rock upon which he stubs his toe that this is the Word of God and we must all curse this rock. It is not a doctrinal teaching. It is NOT the Word of God.

If you want to argue papal fallibility then what makes the Pope any more Christ's vicar than any other human being?

He is the successor of Peter, the bishop of Rome, who was given the keys of the kingdom, entailing a position of authority to be filled with successors. No one else claims that role but the Pope, giving him alone that authority.

Where do your cardinals get off thinking that they can arbitrarily decide who is God's vicar or who is a new addition to the growing list of intermediaries between God and man (saints (i.e. minor catholic deities)). UTTER BLASPHEMY!!!

I will admit that I know little of the history of papal elections. However, it would seem right to me that the successors of the apostles act in a democratic way to determine the successor of the pope. It was in this way that the canon of Scripture was also decided, yet you accept this.

No, the "church" buggered some little boys for sexual gratification. BIG DIFFERENCE. The "church" covers up child molestation cases, issues out hush money, rescues homosexual child rapist from local authorities and then puts them back in positions so that they can rape children all over again because they don't think anything is wrong with pedophilia. HUGE DIFFERENCE.

I have simply decided that for the sake of this discussion it does not matter who had the greater sin or in fact, who had repented and who had not. Please refute my point that you seemed to have looked over:

Say that the hierarchy of the Catholic Church is sinning right now at this very moment. Does that negate the truths of the Catholic Church? You say if they repented then that would be okay. So does the truth they preach become less truthful while they dwell in sin? And then when they repent, it become full truth once more?

This idea is preposterous. For the Church has never changed a doctrine or dogma, thus it has always proclaimed the same truths. It proclaimed the same Word before, during and after the inquisition, and it proclaimed the same Word before, during and after these sex scandals. Your suggestion that because of the sins of those proclaiming God's Word pollutes the Word that they proclaim is heretical, for the Word of God is perfect and unchanging.

Another strawman argument. I take it you couldn't agrue against my actual points so you have to make up a weaker position that you can tear down.

Call it what you like but you do the same thing. You have not refuted my "strawman" argument at all. Rather, you have called it a strawman argument and decided to tear that down instead of the argument itself.

I ask you again:

Now who had the greater sin? Does it matter? Are you arguing that if anyone commits a sin greater than denying Jesus three times, then all truth will cease to come from them? Are they damned right at that moment? Is that what Scripture says? Nope.

I said that one repented while one continues to sin to this very day.

And I have said that this makes no difference whatsoever. Yet you ignored it. See above, starting with "Say that the hierarchy..."

Are you really so stupid as to think that some crusty old Nazi pervert, who had to be given immunity for prosecution in order to step foot on U.S. soil, saying that he is sorry for protecting pedophiles changes anything?

The Pope is STILL protecting these epdophiles TO THIS DAY!!! RIGHT NOW THOSE BUTT BUGGERING PRIESTS ARE STILL WALKING AROUND FREE!!!

Romans 3:3-4 - will their infidelity nullify the fidelity of God? No!

Yes, you support the pedophiles (which are not a small group. 33% isn't a small group.). If not for catholics like you they wouldn't have the ability to keep the Roman Pagan Pedophile Church going. It's your tithes and your complacency with evil that makes the Pope's policy of protection possible.

33%??? I know you're not talking about priests here! You would never make such a ridiculous claim, and you dont even offer a source to back it up!

Allow me:

"Let me give you some figures that you as Catholics should know andremember. For example, 12% of the 300 Protestant clergy surveyedadmitted to sexual intercourse with a parishioner; 38% acknowledgedother inappropriate sexual contact in a study by the United Methodist Church, 41.8% of clergywomen reported unwanted sexual behavior; 17%of laywomen have been sexually harassed. Meanwhile, 1.7% of theCatholic clergy has been found guilty of pedophilia. 10% of theProtestant ministers have been found guilty of pedophilia.
This is nota Catholic Problem.A study of American priests showed that most are happy in thepriesthood and find it even better than they had expected, and thatmost, if given the choice, would choose to be priests again in face ofall this obnoxious PR the Church has been receiving. (Recent stories labeled as scandals include the 'Minnesota priest sued over sexual abuse case' and Father Alberto Cutie -- a.k.a. "Father Oprah" -- left the Catholic Church to join the Episcopal Church and later got married.)"


Source: http://www.examiner.com/x-11053-Manchester-Faith--Culture-Examiner~y2009m9d28-Be-Proud-of-Being-Catholic

That article is written by a JEW, not a Catholic. These are straight up facts. Deal with it.

"And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them." - Romans 1:28-32

I think reading the next verse will do you well:

"Therefore, you are without excuse, every one of you who passes judgment. For by the standard by which you judge another you condemn yourself..." (Romans 2:1)

This entire passage of Romans merely places one idea: The wrath of God does not await the end of the world but goes into action at each present moment in humanity's history when misdirected piety serves as a facade for self-interest. It does not imply that because of the sins of a few (1.7%) destroy the faith of the multitude. It is their sins, the 1.7%, that destroy themselves and nothing more than themselves. In this passage, the pains described in verses 29-31, chapter 1, are smitten only upon those who have committed the crimes, not on anyone else.

Jesus disagrees (read the verse quoted above... and the ones quoted below)

"Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds." - 2 John 1:9-10

I do not deny that the Catholic Church should not have protected abusive Priests. However, as I have repeatedly told you WITH source material (which you have yet to offer) that Sacramentorum Sanctitatis Tutela officially ended the act of Crimen Sollicitationis. That my friend, is fact.

Well, letting a pedophile know that he can rape all the little children he wants and not have to fear any prosecution. Not only that, but that he'll simply be moved to another area to go about molesting more children sure sounds like bidding them godspeed to me.

Yes, Crimen Sollicitationis was a sin. A terrible sin. However, it is no longer in effect.

Again though, I would like to say that the Church has proclaimed the same Word before, during and after this scandal. To say that because of this scandal that the fidelity of God and His Truth is rendered invalid is unbiblical and illogical. Just because the Church sinned does not mean that the truth they proclaim is different, because they proclaimed the same truth all the while. You must rather prove that the Truth which they have proclaimed is invalid based upon the Truth they proclaim itself, NOT based upon the actions of a FEW that claim to proclaim that truth. Those priests that proclaim Truth but have illicit practices are hypocritical, however they are still part of the Body of Christ. They have been through the binding sacrament of Holy Orders. Whatever Truth they proclaim is still Truth unless it was not Truth before they proclaimed it (that is what you must prove here). For if the Truth they proclaim was indeed truth before this scandal, then that Truth is still Truth during and after said scandal, for the sin of man cannot corrupt the Word of God.

"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?" - 2 Corinthians 6:14-15

You poor man. You are so confused without the guidance of the Church! How could you possibly hope understand the Word without the help of Christ's Church that indeed defined that Word?

First we must destroy your ideology of Sola Scriptura. You must understand the it was by the authority of the Catholic Church which was given the power to speak with Christs own voice (Luke 10:16) and that established what you consider the Word of God. Now you would attempt to argue that the Word which Christ's Church established would indeed be applied against the very Truth that defined it!

Do I "yoke" these priests to myself as you say? NO! I do not support these men in any way shape or form. Do a few men in the Church hierarchy support them? Possibly. But by whatever actions they perform, they cannot nullify that Truth that God has entrusted them with. The Catholic Church is still the only complete source of Truth despite a few (1.7%) of corrupted priests.

Yet you catholics allows these men to remain yoked with you. YOU allow it. YOU are complacent with it. YOU are guilty.

I defend the doctrines and dogmas of the Catholic Church, because it is in them that I find Truth. As I have said repeatedly.

"Whatever Truth they proclaim is still Truth unless it was not Truth before they proclaimed it (that is what you must prove here). For if the Truth they proclaim was indeed truth before this scandal, then that Truth is still Truth during and after said scandal, for the sin of man cannot corrupt the Word of God."

1.) How are they your leaders? Because you ALLOW it. Nobody forced them on you. You chose to support them and stick by them despite their support for pedophilia. Take some responsibility, repent and stop supporting pedophilia before it's too late.

The Crimen Sollicationis ENDED with the Sacramentorum Sanctitatis Tutela. Period. There is no arguing that point.

They are not my leader by choice. That is the problem with Protestant theology. You all just move from Church to Church until you find one that suits YOUR theology and what you THINK it should be. Just like Martin Luther, you change what has been taught for thousands of years into your own twisted views of what you WANT it to say.

They are my leaders because Christ established them so:

Matthew 16:13-20 - Jesus built his Church on Peter, the rock (foretold in the OT: Isaiah 22:15-25)
Luke 22:29-30 - I confer a kingdom on you, just as my Father conferred one on me: you will eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and you will sit on thrones to judge the twelve tribes of Israel.
Luke 22:32 - Peter appointed to be the chief shepherd (that Peter's faith may not fail)
John 10:16 - One shepherd to shepherd Christ's sheep
John 15:16 - Jesus chose special men to be his Apostles
John 21:17-19 - Peter appointed to be the chief shepherd
John 20:21 - Jesus gave the Apostles his own mission
Ephesians 4:11 - Church leaders are hierarchical
1 Timothy 3:1,8; 1 Timothy 5:17 - identifies roles of bishops, priests and deacons
Titus 1:5 - Commission for bishops to ordain priests

You deny the Bible by denying Apostolic Succession. Priests ARE the successors of Christ's Apostles. They have passed on their role through the laying of hands over the centuries during the process of Holy Orders. This is found in the Bible:

2 Timothy 1:6 - "Hence I remind you to rekindle the gift of God that is within you through the laying on of my hands."

It is ONLY through this laying of hands that Apostolic succession can occur. If your Church is not connected by the laying of hands DIRECTLY to the Apostles, then you have no truth within you. You cannot CHOOSE to follow whosoever you please, there are ONLY the successors of the apostles, there are no other leaders in which to follow.

2.) YOU are NOT God. Those verses don't apply to you.

Romans 3:3-4 - will their infidelity nullify the fidelity of God? No!

These verses apply to us all! The Catholic Church has and will remain the vehicle of God's Word despite their sins, though this depends on the Fidelity of God. It clearly shows that our infidelity cannot nullify the fidelity of God.

Romans 9:6-10 - "But it is not that the Word of God has failed. For not all who are of Israel are Israel, nor are they all children of Abraham because they are his descendants..."
Matt 3:9 - "And do not presume o say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.' For I tell you, God can raise up children to Abraham from these stones."

So these "bad" priests might claim to be the descendants of Abraham or the apostles, but this does not mean that they are. If they pursue Holy Orders and the priesthood for reasons as simple as to molest children then they are no more priestly than you are, this however does not nullify the Fidelity of God! These priests claim to be his servants, but if in their heart they are not, then it is simply that, they are NOT. And you cannot judge those that go forth faithfully by those that do not.

You make a claim here that Paul clearly forbids. You blame the entire Catholic faith (the Church of Christ itself!) for the actions of those falsely claiming to be His faithful servants. This does not nullify their teachings. Nothing can nullify the Word of God.

(Romans 11:1-11) Although Isreal has been unfaithful to the prophetic message of the gospel (Also see Romans 10:14-21), God remains faithful to Israel. Proof of divine fidelity lies in the existence of a few Jewish Christians like Paul himself.

(Psalm 89: 30-37) "I will establish his dynasty forever, his throne as the days of the heavens. If his descendants forsake my law, do not follow my decrees, if they fail to observe my statutes do not keep my commandments, I will punish their crime with a rod and their guilt with lashes. But I will not take my love from him, nor will I betray my bond of loyalty. I will not violate my covenant; the promise of my lips I will not alter. By my holiness I swore once for all: I will never be false to David. His dynasty will continue forever, his throne, like the sun before me."

Jesus will never forsake His love for us! He will punish us, but because of our sin is no reason for Him to withdraw His Truth which He has entrusted us with.

Your "church" is a false pagan institution. That question is nonsensical as the catholic "church" preaches the wide path into Hell.

The Church preaches exactly what the Apostles taught. All of it, not just what was chosen to be included in Scripture.

None of those verse contradict the fact that we True Christians are now without sin and cannot sin. You either believe that True Christians are without sin or you must conclude that the Bible contradicts itself. Either way you lose.

You did not answer my question as to what those verses meant to you. How do you interpret them?

I beg to differ.

Is the Vatican enacting Biblical Law? Yes or No?

Perhaps you could be more specific in your question? Are you asking if the Church teaches what is taught in the Bible?

Purgatory? Mary worship? I definitely beg to differ.

I'm discussing Marian dogmas on another thread but if you would like to discuss Purgatory, I'll get the ball rolling:

2 Samuel 12:13-14 - David, though forgiven, is still punished for sin
Matthew 5:25-26 - "you will be thrown into prison and not be released until you have paid the last penny."
Matthew 5:48 - be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect (perfection is to be strived for on earth)
Matthew 12:32 - sin against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, in this age, or the next
Matthew 12:36 - you will have to account for every idle word on judgment day
1 Corinthians 3:10-16 - "if someone's work is burned ... the person will be saved, but only as through fire"
1 Corinthians 15:29-30 - Paul mentions people baptizing for the dead
2 Timothy 1:16-18 - St. Paul prays - asks that God have mercy on his dead friend, Onesiphorus.
Hebrews 12:14 - strive for that holiness without which one cannot see God
Hebrews 12:29 - For our God is a consuming fire
James 1:14-15 - when sin reaches maturity it reaches death
James 3:2 - we all fall short in many respects
1 Peter 3:18-20 to 4:6 - Jesus preached to the spirits in prison.
1 John 5:16-17 - Distinction made between deadly sins and one that are not deadly.
Revelation 21:27 - Nothing unclean will be allowed to enter into heaven.
See also: - Leviticus 26:41, 43; Isaiah 4:4, Isaiah 6:5-7, Isaiah 33:11-14, Micah 7 8-9:, Zechariah 9:11, Malachi 3:2-4, Matthew 18:34ff, Luke 12:58ff, Luke 16:19-31, 2 Corinthians 5:10, 2 Corinthians 7:1, Ephesians 4:8-10, Philippians 2:10-11, 1 Peter 4:6, Revelation 5:3, 13

There you go. Just a few biblical references to Purgatory Have at it!

[Lola Handcock]

Re: Just for Remy Lebeau (Pedophillia)

Pastor Zeke done got all over my case for being on the men only section.I got a fine and I deserved it. I thought Brother Hank was hurt from coon hunting,you know how he loves to hunt and dont we all.

Emil them kinda bars aint no good fer ya you will just get into trouble and end up back in jail.Now do what Brother Hank said to do Put some ice down there.The truck drivers over where I work said it was called a case of the blue balls,dang if that aint a funny name!