[Brother Temperance]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

Dear confused friends,
I feel sorry for you that you think ill about the Catholic Chruch the church that Jesus him self found.

Here is Our Papal succesion for the world to see, this is our history since the time of our Blessed Jesus he Promised Peter to be the visible head of the church. No other church can surpass it. Jesus said the Gates of hell will not destroy it, Kingdoms have came and gone since but the Catholic Chruch is still around because of Gods Promise.


So i Challange all of you to show me your history in that your church or any other church was there during the time of Christ.

1. St. Peter (32-67)

If Peter was a Pope, how come he openly contradicted Catholic doctrines? Also, were all these "popes" infallible, or did they only start being infallible after Gregory VII's Dictatus Papae, or even only after the First Vatican Council formally proclaimed this blasphemy in 1870? If popes before Gregory VII were infallible, how come none of them ever mentioned it?

[Moses.]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

Ha. Nobody believes that BS besides Catholics themselves. There is NO historical merit in it whatsoever.

http://atheism.about.com/od/popesand.../peterpope.htm

Define to me what kind of merit you are asking for. Dont use an ambiguous term this is part of history and is propaly documented. The Church has nothing to hide about its history it has had ups it has had downs but like Jesus promised it has alway prevailed.

If Peter was a Pope, how come he openly contradicted Catholic doctrines? Also, were all these "popes" infallible, or did they only start being infallible after Gregory VII's Dictatus Papae, or even only after the First Vatican Council formally proclaimed this blasphemy in 1870? If popes before Gregory VII were infallible, how come none of them ever mentioned it?

Please give me one thing that Peter said that contradicted the Catholic church provide the document. all i am asking for is one?
This is where you are wrong Pope are men and they make mistakes Peter Christ deciple denied Christ three times. The Catholic Church has never said its "popes" are infallible we say his teaching are and the DOCTRINES are this is a big difference. no man is perfect and the church does not claim that their popes are perfect we claim what they teach is inspired by the holy spirit. the pope with the guidence of Christ he shall prevail as Christ is our Shepard he told Peter to take care of his sheep for him until he comes again.


Heathen_Basher

all the links that you have given have not proved anything they all have skipped more than a 1000 years before Christ. so i dont know what you are trying to get at you have a 1000 years gap.



Please don't give me anymore links to other websites you tell me what you have read as i don't have time to read every single link.

i hope you may all know the truth as i dearly will be praying that you may seek it.

[Flatty10]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

You say that Christianity would have arrived in Rome in approx the 40's, and that Peter is more than likely to have arrived two decades earlier.

Would this not mean that Peter arrived in Rome, approximately 10 years before the death and resurrection? Seeing as though Christ was killed in the year 33?

So why would Peter be in Rome in the 20's?

some Evidence through Early Church
Pope Clement I

"Through countryside and city [the apostles] preached, and they appointed their earliest converts, testing them by the Spirit, to be the bishops and deacons of future believers. Nor was this a novelty, for bishops and deacons had been written about a long time earlier. . . . Our apostles knew through our Lord Jesus Christ that there would be strife for the office of bishop. For this reason, therefore, having received perfect foreknowledge, they appointed those who have already been mentioned and afterwards added the further provision that, if they should die, other approved men should succeed to their ministry" (Letter to the Corinthians 42:4–5, 44:1–3 [A.D. 80]).

Hegesippus
"When I had come to Rome, I [visited] Anicetus, whose deacon was Eleutherus. And after Anicetus [died], Soter succeeded, and after him Eleutherus. In each succession and in each city there is a continuance of that which is proclaimed by the law, the prophets, and the Lord" (Memoirs, cited in Eusebius, Ecclesiastical History 4:22 [A.D. 180]).


Irenaeus
"It is possible, then, for everyone in every church, who may wish to know the truth, to contemplate the tradition of the apostles which has been made known to us throughout the whole world. And we are in a position to enumerate those who were instituted bishops by the apostles and their successors down to our own times, men who neither knew nor taught anything like what these heretics rave about" (Against Heresies 3:3:1 [A.D. 189]).

Augustine
"[T]here are many other things which most properly can keep me in [the Catholic Church’s] bosom. The unanimity of peoples and nations keeps me here. Her authority, inaugurated in miracles, nourished by hope, augmented by love, and confirmed by her age, keeps me here. The succession of priests, from the very see of the apostle Peter, to whom the Lord, after his resurrection, gave the charge of feeding his sheep [John 21:15–17], up to the present episcopate, keeps me here. And last, the very name Catholic, which, not without reason, belongs to this Church alone, in the face of so many heretics, so much so that, although all heretics want to be called ‘Catholic,’ when a stranger inquires where the Catholic Church meets, none of the heretics would dare to point out his own basilica or house" (Against the Letter of Mani Called "The Foundation" 4:5 [A.D. 397]).

To name a few of a very Long list.

You have to understand that Christ coming to earth put into motion his Church which actually started doing things, He didn't come so people will write down what he did, (yes thats very important) But he came to give us the Truth, and so that his Apostles can teach that Truth. They just didn't invent doctrines a couple hundred years later, they would have already been in practice and development. It even says at the end of Johns Gospel that everything Jesus said and did is not in the Scriptures.

Every successful social structure in the world has order. When it comes down to Christs own church and his social order it is more than fitting he would give us order, so we can come to know him and have our sins forgiven. Hence the church which has been a hospital for sinners since the time of Christ.

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

It is a well-established fact that Baptists are the original Christians.

[Bogdana Alkeav]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

If there is little or no evidence linking Peter with the establishment of the Christian church in Rome, then how and why did Rome become the central church in early Christianity? Why wasn’t the wider Christian community centered on Jerusalem, Antioch, Athens, or other major cities closer to where Christianity got its start?
Actually it would have been surprising if the Roman church hadn’t taken on a leading role — it was, after all, the political center of the Roman empire. Large numbers of people, especially influential people, lived in and around Rome. Large numbers of people were always passing through Rome on political, diplomatic, cultural, and commercial ventures.



It’s only natural that a Christian community would have been established here early on and that this community would have ended up including a number of important people. At the same time, though, the Roman church did not by any means “rule” over Christianity in general, not in the way that the Vatican rules over Catholic churches today. Currently the pope is treated as if he were not merely the bishop of the Roman church, but rather the bishop of every church while the local bishops are merely his assistants. The situation was radically different during the first centuries of Christianity.

[Flatty10]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

If this was a courtroom, there would be absolutely no way your "evidence" would even stand up.

where was one quote from the apostolic times confirming your denomination.

If you a trying to say that material is authentic, match it up with the early accounts of witnesses and martyrs of the times which i have just given you.

Who was the founder of your so called historic denomination?
What were their beliefs?
If your claiming their apostolic beliefs there shouldn't be anything you disagree with regarding the Catholic Church.

[Moses.]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

It is a well-established fact that Baptists are the original Christians.

Again Pastor Ezekiel all your quotes are missing 1000 years all of them are quoted after the reformation show me a quote or a document that is dated ealiar before the reformation took place if there were baptist surly they would of written about there experience during that time dont you think?

Are you going to give me a 2nd infrigment or ban me because i have asked you a sincere and ligit question?

[Meek and Humble]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

Again Pastor Ezekiel all your quotes are missing 1000 years all of them are quoted after the reformation show me a quote or a document that is dated ealiar before the reformation took place if there were baptist surly they would of written about there experience during that time dont you think?

They weren't CALLED Baptists back then, honestly.

Ancient anti-paedobaptist groups, such as the Montanists, Paulicians, Cathari, Waldenses, Albigenses, and Anabaptists, have been among those viewed by Baptists successionists as the predecessors of modern day Baptists.

You won't find much writing by them, because the Catholic did quite a good job of persecuting and executing them, and destroying and outlawing their writings.

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

Again Pastor Ezekiel all your quotes are missing 1000 years all of them are quoted after the reformation show me a quote or a document that is dated ealiar before the reformation took place if there were baptist surly they would of written about there experience during that time dont you think?

Are you going to give me a 2nd infrigment or ban me because i have asked you a sincere and ligit question?

No, but I might ban you for ignoring the links people go to the trouble to insert for your edification.

[Flatty10]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

They weren't CALLED Baptists back then, honestly.

Ancient anti-paedobaptist groups, such as the Montanists, Paulicians, Cathari, Waldenses, Albigenses, and Anabaptists, have been among those viewed by Baptists successionists as the predecessors of modern day Baptists.

You won't find much writing by them, because the Catholic did quite a good job of persecuting and executing them, and destroying and outlawing their writings.

So even if you a correct, which i extremely doubt, you would agree that the Roman Catholic Church would have had to exist at the same time as your movement did if they were to destroy all the documents?

[Moses.]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

No, but I might ban you for ignoring the links people go to the trouble to insert for your edification.

well i read your link and it did not show me nothing dating before the reformation. so what are you trying to say i must of not seen it can you then please show me the direct quote?

You won't find much writing by them, because the Catholic did quite a good job of persecuting and executing them, and destroying and outlawing their writings

so then this statement shows that you must of read it somewhere right like a histroical fact or even one of the "baptist" before the reformation wrting it in some sort of letter right? may you please give me the link to this letter?
or is it one of those when it doubt about anything just blame the Catholic.

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

well i read your link and it did not show me nothing dating before the reformation. so what are you trying to say i must of not seen it can you then please show me the direct quote?

"I have no question in my own mind that there has been a historical succession of Baptists from the days of Christ to the present." John T. Christian, college professor, historian, author

"Clouds of witnesses attest the fact that before the...papery, and from the Apostolic age to the present time, the sentiments of Baptists, and the practice of baptism has had a continued chain of advocates, and public monuments of their existence in every century can be produced." Alexander Campbell, Church of Christ

"We believe that the Baptists are the original Christians. We did not commence our existence at the Reformation, we were reformers before Luther or Calvin were born; we never came from the Church of Rome, for we were never in it, but we have an unbroken line up to the apostles themselves. We have always existed from the very days of Christ, and our principles, sometimes veiled and forgotten, like a river which may travel underground for a little season, have always had honest and holy adherents. Persecuted alike by Romanists and Protestants of almost every sect, yet there has never existed a government holding Baptist principles which persecuted others; nor; I believe, any body of Baptists ever held it to be right to put the consciences of others under the control of man. We have ever been ready to suffer; as our martyrologies will prove, but we are not ready to accept any help from the State, to prostitute the purity of the Bride of Christ to any alliance with Government, and we will never make the Church, the despot over the consciences of men." Charles Spurgeon

We have an entire thread on this subject. If you were'nt a lying papist dog you might have taken the trouble to read it.

[Levi Jones]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

So even if you a correct, which i extremely doubt, you would agree that the Roman Catholic Church would have had to exist at the same time as your movement did if they were to destroy all the documents?

Of course they did. There were many sects of Christianity until the Franks converted to Roman Catholicism in the 400's. The Romans were too weak by themselves to pull off silencing all the other groups. They used the armies of the Franks as their enforcers to pull it off.

[Moses.]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

"I have no question in my own mind that there has been a historical succession of Baptists from the days of Christ to the present." John T. Christian, college professor, historian, author

"Clouds of witnesses attest the fact that before the...papery, and from the Apostolic age to the present time, the sentiments of Baptists, and the practice of baptism has had a continued chain of advocates, and public monuments of their existence in every century can be produced." Alexander Campbell, Church of Christ

"We believe that the Baptists are the original Christians. We did not commence our existence at the Reformation, we were reformers before Luther or Calvin were born; we never came from the Church of Rome, for we were never in it, but we have an unbroken line up to the apostles themselves. We have always existed from the very days of Christ, and our principles, sometimes veiled and forgotten, like a river which may travel underground for a little season, have always had honest and holy adherents. Persecuted alike by Romanists and Protestants of almost every sect, yet there has never existed a government holding Baptist principles which persecuted others; nor; I believe, any body of Baptists ever held it to be right to put the consciences of others under the control of man. We have ever been ready to suffer; as our martyrologies will prove, but we are not ready to accept any help from the State, to prostitute the purity of the Bride of Christ to any alliance with Government, and we will never make the Church, the despot over the consciences of men." Charles Spurgeon

We have an entire thread on this subject. If you were'nt a lying papist dog you might have taken the trouble to read it.

sorry for my ignorance but none of your quotes have dates may you please provide me the dates becuase then how do i know how old these quotes are?

"but even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters' table." Then Jesus said to her, "O woman, your faith is great; it shall be done for you as you wish." And her daughter was healed at once." (15:27-28)

so let it be to me that dog that the woman thought she was.

[Meek and Humble]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

So even if you a correct, which i extremely doubt, you would agree that the Roman Catholic Church would have had to exist at the same time as your movement did if they were to destroy all the documents?

Huh? Are you saying the Montanists, Paulicians, Cathari, Waldenses, Albigenses, and Anabaptists and others didn't exist? And I never said your silly false church doesn't exist. I said it was not the successor of Christ either literally or in spirit and was created much later.