[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: Evolution Is A Fact

[ClarificatiOnDarwin]

Dear friend:

Would you like to back up your assertions with Scripture? As for accepting reality, we accept God's Reality.

Pastor Peters....scripture is unable to provide support for evolution because it has no mention of it, because it is not a book of science. To ask someone to provide evidence from the very thing someone is criticizing is a poor plan of attack from your argument. You are assuming that the bible is true, which is what is under question, and you simply can't do that.

Evolution is just a theory. Where did you go to school??

Evolution is actually a fact. It's a common misconception that evolution is still a theory. I'll try to explain. The modern Theory of Evolution has been observed and proved many times since the times of Charles Darwin. Meaning it has left the 'hypothesis' realm to become an established theory, that is to say: a fact. Just to cite a few examples of evolution in action: bacteria antibiotic resistance, the peppered moth and the avian influenza. Every other observation, from the fossil record to molecular genetics to wildlife observations, have all fit soundly with evolution predictions.

What's more, evolution is used by humankind for such things like artificial selection, genetic engineering, vaccine production and computer science (evolutionary and genetic algorithms). If evolution wasn't a fact, these applications of it would have failed.

Also, let me leave you with this quote: "Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science." - Charles Darwin

I hope this helps clear things up. Evolution occurred. There is a plethora ( a lot) of evidence. This isn't to say that God didn't create our earth and universe through the process of Darwinian evolution, it just says that the tale of Genesis is bogus. We don't know what started it all, but we know that after it got started (be it God, the Big Bang, or whatever) evolution did the rest. There is nothing in the universe so far that cannot be explained by evolution: small, successive changes over a long, long period of time.

Rev Osborne, you cannot quote the bible to provide evidence for it self, that is like saying "I am right because I said so." Please if you are going to engage the forum, use appropriate reasoning and logic skills.

[True Disciple]

Re: Evolution Is A Fact

A bit like one of those coin vortex devices, where there is a central hole and a downward sloping conical gradient leading towards it. As a coin is rolled along the gradient, it loses speed and is gradually pulled closer into the hole, until it falls in.

But why does the coin fall in? According to godless atheists, it falls in because of gravity, the very concept you are trying to prove! Circular reasoning, my friend. Coins fall because God pushes them down by Intelligent Falling (IF). No spacetime-deformation necessary.

What causes space time to bend, on the other hand, is not perfectly understood. Some would suggest a particle called the gravitron is responsible, others, mostly those in theoretical physics, describe it as being an effect of strings. Neither are fully supported, through a string theory-based model would account for it.

In short, you don't have the faintest idea how your own gravitationist theories are supposed to work, and therefore invent new particles and "strings" to salvage your failing worldview.

Accept the truth of Christ, my friend.

[Aristotle]

Re: Evolution Is A Fact

Just like Gravity, Evolution is a fact. It happens, we can see it happening, it isn't going to stop happening.

You might as well accept reality.

No, No! Evolution is a conspiracy of evilotionists. Science has gone down hill since they accepted the atheist thinking of Newton. Every good Christian knows that the force of YHWH is required to keep things moving, just like the good Christian Aristotle said.

Re: Evolution Is A Fact

Please listen all non believers, the universe is far too infinite and complex for us to understand, but with time we will learn and understand more. Do not let your prejudices about religion build walls around your minds. We have a long way to go in understanding the cosmos, let's not close our world on religion and accept that there are possibilities that we cannot disprove.

[Hank]

Re: Evolution Is A Fact

Occam's Razor is the answer! God did it. How much simpler can you get?

To say evolution is true is like saying the noter dame cathedral just bursted out of thin air from dust collectin over time. But how do you account for the design? The intelligence?

The stupidity of so called "scientists" amazes me

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: Evolution Is A Fact

FortyTwo hit the nail on the head. Being brought up with the "truth" has seriously hindered their ability to accept anything that isn't in the KJV bible.[...]

Even a Godless atheist like you should see the beautiful simplicity of God's Creation.

Then there's that man Nietsche (or however he spells his name) above, who is a trenchant apologist for so-called scientists, and who suggests that gravity is caused by penny arcades. Is that likely?

Occam's Razor is the answer! God did it. How much simpler can you get?

[lrbailey]

Re: Evolution Is A Fact

FortyTwo hit the nail on the head. Being brought up with the "truth" has seriously hindered their ability to accept anything that isn't in the KJV bible. Now they do accept something if they can pull scripture apart and appliy it to a theory that is proven almost to certainty, like gravity. I don't agree that they are idiots, just stuck in their ways. As for the evolution bit, it will never be fact, there will always be people who don't except it. They will want the first organism all the way to us, and everything in between, as proof.

[FortyTwo]

Re: Evolution Is A Fact

Hi Jason,

You're arguing with idiots. Sadly they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. Understand that there is a possibility god could exist; however it's extremely unlikely.

But, just to list some comments before leaving myself...and giving some arguments for the Christians to jump to their supernatural guides...

These people have been indoctrinated into Christianity from a young age; born into a family that believed these laws, incorporated superstitious practices into their life, and after 20-30 years; any alternative path is next to impossible for them to accept. However take comfort in your own realisation, as well as the growing global disbelief in all supernatural lifestyles.

Finally, the only agreement I've made with any person of belief is the ridiculous nature of all alternative religions to their own.

Those people within this forum will agree that these religions are ridiculous, stupid, evil, "encompass their own religion", etc....
Islam
Hindu
Scientology
Kabbalah,
Wicca,
Buddhism,
Satanism,
and so on..by the way this isn't inclusive of ancient religions,

The more "hard line" will believe that they'll be going to Hell for not believing in their religion. That's a lot of people suffering for doing nothing wrong but beliving in an alternative god or none at all. If that's true, I wonder..."God, may I be un-created?"

Unfortunately religion has clawed itself into a position of power within society. Self interest will prevent them from releasing this grip and will undoubtedly be around for the foreseeable future. It will take something extremely profound to create any form of widespread change in societies supernatural beliefs (Contact with Extra Terrestrial Life, Time Travel, Anything Extreme)

However take comfort in declining attendance and belief in supernatural activities.

Just remember; look past the ridiculous nature of their beliefs and get to know the person behind the book. Alienating people on the basis of religion will end up sacrificing the opportunity to get to know a pretty decent person.

-Forty Two

[Rev. Jim Osborne]

Re: Evolution Is A Fact

What causes space time to bend, on the other hand, is not perfectly understood. Some would suggest a particle called the gravitron is responsible, others, mostly those in theoretical physics, describe it as being an effect of strings. Neither are fully supported, through a string theory-based model would account for it.

So the explanation for why gravity works is postulated to being the result of either gravitrons or strings. But, this does not satisfy the answer, for another question then pops up: How do gravitrons or strings create gravity and why? It just replaces one question with another.

Eventually scientists will run out of explanations where they discover something that cannot be explained at all. This is when they will finally acknowledge the existence of God.

[F. Nietzsche]

Re: Evolution Is A Fact

I don't know what you said there but it sounds as if you're using a lot of words to slide by facts past us, thinking we wouldn't notice.

I think the question we are all dying to hear answered is, "How exactly does gravity work?" and NOT "masses attract each other", we want to know why they do! What is the essence of this authentic power you claim for the joo-boy Eisenstein?

A bit like one of those coin vortex devices, where there is a central hole and a downward sloping conical gradient leading towards it. As a coin is rolled along the gradient, it loses speed and is gradually pulled closer into the hole, until it falls in.

Mass causes the geometry of space-time to curve to varying degrees. Mass can actually be defined in terms of how much it actually causes this to happen. While the computer on your desk doesn't necessarily have much of this effect, given the low mass relative to say, a planet, or star and the exceptionally small value of the gravitational constant, for a large object, this effect is pronounced.

Gravity causes objects to orbit by first, capturing the objects in the general area, and pulling it towards the mass. However, celestial objects move quickly enough relative to the center that as they fall, they move away from the object. thus creating a ellptical path as both forces concurrently work on an orbiting object. It's a bit like one of the coin vortexes without friction spun at speeds of 35,000 km/h, so quickly that any movement towards the center is directionally shifted towards an ellptical.

What causes space time to bend, on the other hand, is not perfectly understood. Some would suggest a particle called the gravitron is responsible, others, mostly those in theoretical physics, describe it as being an effect of strings. Neither are fully supported, through a string theory-based model would account for it.

[Hank]

Re: Evolution Is A Fact

If gravity didn't exist, then relativistic effects of distant starlight passing by the gravitational pull of the sun would also not exist.

Please support your crazy claims with Scripture.

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: Evolution Is A Fact

Well, the entire basis of the theory of Gravity is the pull of an object on the fabric of spacetime creating a depression in the surface and pulling other objects into it. This is consistent with a number of experiments performed involving the bending of light which have confirmed Einstein's predictions and models of gravitation.

I don't know what you said there but it sounds as if you're using a lot of words to slide by facts past us, thinking we wouldn't notice.

I think the question we are all dying to hear answered is, "How exactly does gravity work?" and NOT "masses attract each other", we want to know why they do! What is the essence of this fictitious power you claim for the joo-boy Eisenstein?

If gravity didn't exist, then relativistic effects of distant starlight passing by the gravitational pull of the sun would also not exist.

Stars are set in the firmament. They are there to light the night. God says that. It is not necessary to faith to know how that happens. Such knowledge might lead the weak and foolish to conclusions contrary to the Teachings of Christ.

1 Timothy 6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:
1 Timothy 6:21 Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen.

[F. Nietzsche]

Re: Evolution Is A Fact

Are you saying that it is impossible for a "scientific theory" to be wrong?

OK, I'll bite. How, according to the so-called Theory of Gravity, does gravity happen?

Gravity doesn't exist.

Well, the entire basis of the theory of Gravity is the pull of an object on the fabric of spacetime creating a depression in the surface and pulling other objects into it. This is consistent with a number of experiments performed involving the bending of light which have confirmed Einstein's predictions and models of gravitation.

If gravity didn't exist, then relativistic effects of distant starlight passing by the gravitational pull of the sun would also not exist.

[WWJDnow]

Re: Evolution Is A Fact

A theory in science is the highest description of a fact or natural occurrence.

Are you saying that it is impossible for a "scientific theory" to be wrong?

Gravity happens, the Theory of Gravity explains how and why it happens.

OK, I'll bite. How, according to the so-called Theory of Gravity, does gravity happen?

So now I ask you, is gravity "just a theory?"

Gravity doesn't exist.

A stone will fall, thats a fact. Unless God Wills it not to fall then it won't. Thats also a fact.

Yes! This is the true explanation for why things fall. It is in the nature of EVERYTHING to fall, unless Jesus choses to stop it from falling:

God... Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high... Hebrews 1:1-3