[Nobar King]

Re: Further proof of evolution

Dear Mr. Theater: This might be a waste of my time because I suspect you might get banned or bored, but we have a quote feature to make your conversation easy to read, and also easy to quote.

[michael the hater]

Re: Further proof of evolution

We have established that The Bible isn't good enough evidence for you, yes? Even though The Bible is prophetic: foreseen, not just written afterthoughts - and despite The Bible being supported by evidence on most parts of it, except for perhaps the parts the non-believer doesn't want to hear.

could you point out where i might find this evidence? like i said i'm genuinely interested i'm not trying to catch you out. i am more than willing to hear any ideas.

Christianity is the only religion in the world that is founded on historical events and is supported by objective verifiable evidences. Although other religions claim to have historical validation, upon investigation, one discovers that they do not. Regardless, even if they did, The Bible predates them anyway. The wise man searching for spiritual truth will do well to take seriously the claims of our scripture. The Bible clearly does not contain the answers *you* are looking for... but, what is the question?

which historical events would you be reffering to?
i must admit i have seen items of religious faith that pre date christ. for example the sumerians religious texts still exist today in one form or another and they go back about 7000 years.

The crux of Christianity is CHRIST, the Messiah. It is faith in Him, belief that He existed, and was much more than a man, yet more human than human. It is belief that He was the Son of GOD, that He was GOD incarnate. It is belief in the reality of His message, and the significance of His ultimate sacrifice, and the desire to follow His path back to Heaven from whence He came. Could I ever prove to you that CHRIST was more than a man? What would prove it to you? We offer you documented evidence from the time when He lived, from numerous sources, across many different cultures, witness testimonies, the same things that prove other historical people existed, without question, and we accept they existed readily.

you offer documented evidence from the time he lived, from numerous sources, different cultures and witness testemonies? if you refer to the bible my main arguement against the bible is that it could have been changed many times. the bible that you yourself read was written in 1667 was it? thats quite a few years after the death of christ and may not represent the original texts of the original bible. i would in fact love to read the original bible

thanks

[The Hand]

Re: Further proof of evolution

I am curious as to this bit. Can you please explain what proof you have to believe? I am not trying to catch you out I am genuinely curious. Also you said: The proof of GOD isn't just because the Bible says so.

Could you please explain what else proves gods existence?

We have established that The Bible isn't good enough evidence for you, yes? Even though The Bible is prophetic: foreseen, not just written afterthoughts - and despite The Bible being supported by evidence on most parts of it, except for perhaps the parts the non-believer doesn't want to hear.

Christianity is the only religion in the world that is founded on historical events and is supported by objective verifiable evidences. Although other religions claim to have historical validation, upon investigation, one discovers that they do not. Regardless, even if they did, The Bible predates them anyway. The wise man searching for spiritual truth will do well to take seriously the claims of our scripture. The Bible clearly does not contain the answers *you* are looking for... but, what is the question?

The crux of Christianity is CHRIST, the Messiah. It is faith in Him, belief that He existed, and was much more than a man, yet more human than human. It is belief that He was the Son of GOD, that He was GOD incarnate. It is belief in the reality of His message, and the significance of His ultimate sacrifice, and the desire to follow His path back to Heaven from whence He came. Could I ever prove to you that CHRIST was more than a man? What would prove it to you? We offer you documented evidence from the time when He lived, from numerous sources, across many different cultures, witness testimonies, the same things that prove other historical people existed, without question, and we accept they existed readily.

What would prove CHRIST to you, apart from the Second Coming?

Also, what do you make of this:

Rom. 1:17-25
[about the gospel of Christ]
For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

You to

I am at peace. I am a man of GOD, in a house of GOD, and by GOD I am content.

[michael the hater]

Re: Further proof of evolution

Your problem is, you are afraid to believe in something bigger than yourself. You'll accept any theory or idea as long as it is contrary to GOD, no matter how outlandish or ridiculous those ideas may be. You're not looking for GOD, you're looking only for ways to disprove GOD. This is your dynamo.

I am more than happy to accept something that’s bigger than myself. And I am not trying to disprove god. I am actually trying to prove he does exist as I would love it if I could find proof that god exists other than some book and people saying “well look around you!”. that doesn’t help. I’ve read the bible, I’ve looked around but I cant see what you see. And its not because I’m not open to it. I am very open to new ideas.

Deep in the unenlightened human is a pervasive need for a logical universe that makes sense. But GOD is always one step beyond logic, and always will be. No scientist can disprove the existence of GOD, and all scientific evidence points to 'something' else - an unknown factor, 'something' that put it all in motion, 'something' to begin it, 'something' that was there before everything. There are so many gaps in logic that have scientists puzzled. So many unanswered questions.

I agree but that’s not to say that it IS god that fills the gaps in these ideas. It could very well be that there are still things to discover.

Even the greatest minds of the modern age cannot fathom what it could be, and show no signs of coming closer to being able to fathom it. The Big Bang theory is close to being written off - scientists now think they might have been wrong all along. Even the wheelchair man who invented the Big Bang theory thinks he got it wrong, and guess what? He actually believes in GOD. What does that tell you?

There are many ideas of the start of the universe. Big bang theory being just one of them

The greatest minds of history were men of Faith, from now, through the Renaissance and Age of Enlightenment, right back to the Old Testament - the word of GOD. Why do the enlightened embrace Faith so freely, and yet the unenlightened trash and internet trolls are so eager to discredit it? All the lost souls of the world, crying out for the answer, and all the while mocking and ridiculing and persecuting those who have already found their answer.

I don’t mock or ridicule people unless they do the same to me (do unto others as you want to be done unto was what I was taught as a child) so as long as people are nice to me I will offer the same courtesy. That applies to people of all religions and races.

I have enough proof to believe. The burden of proof is on the non-believer, should he wish to prove I shouldn't believe.

I am curious as to this bit. Can you please explain what proof you have to believe? I am not trying to catch you out I am genuinely curious. Also you said: The proof of GOD isn't just because the Bible says so.

Could you please explain what else proves gods existence?

What points? What new points have you brought to the table that I can't find in a hundred other threads here, written better, more thoughtfully, and by brighter people than you? Do you think you are the first 'hater' to arrive here? You're not the first and you wont be the last. Sorry to disappoint you.

Like I have said I do not hate. I will not retaliate with any derogatory comments as you believe me to be someone who does not care and is here to create dissent within the forum when I am not.

May you find peace one day.

You to

[The Hand]

Re: Further proof of evolution

please enlighten me. i'd be interested to hear your side of things.

Your problem is, you are afraid to believe in something bigger than yourself. You'll accept any theory or idea as long as it is contrary to GOD, no matter how outlandish or ridiculous those ideas may be. You're not looking for GOD, you're looking only for ways to disprove GOD. This is your dynamo. Your atheism: it's your faith. That's right - faith. You run as blind as any man, stumbling along and finding out about the world piecemeal. Eventually, when you have found all the pieces of your puzzle, you'll find GOD. You cannot see the woods because you are too busy looking at the trees. You cannot find GOD because you are too busy trying to find yourself.

Deep in the unenlightened human is a pervasive need for a logical universe that makes sense. But GOD is always one step beyond logic, and always will be. No scientist can disprove the existence of GOD, and all scientific evidence points to 'something' else - an unknown factor, 'something' that put it all in motion, 'something' to begin it, 'something' that was there before everything. There are so many gaps in logic that have scientists puzzled. So many unanswered questions.

Even the greatest minds of the modern age cannot fathom what it could be, and show no signs of coming closer to being able to fathom it. The Big Bang theory is close to being written off - scientists now think they might have been wrong all along. Even the wheelchair man who invented the Big Bang theory thinks he got it wrong, and guess what? He actually believes in GOD. What does that tell you?

The greatest minds of history were men of Faith, from now, through the Renaissance and Age of Enlightenment, right back to the Old Testament - the word of GOD. Why do the enlightened embrace Faith so freely, and yet the unenlightened trash and internet trolls are so eager to discredit it? All the lost souls of the world, crying out for the answer, and all the while mocking and ridiculing and persecuting those who have already found their answer.

I have enough proof to believe. The burden of proof is on the non-believer, should he wish to prove I shouldn't believe.

or maybe you'd like to address some of my other points?

What points? What new points have you brought to the table that I can't find in a hundred other threads here, written better, more thoughtfully, and by brighter people than you? Do you think you are the first 'hater' to arrive here? You're not the first and you wont be the last. Sorry to disappoint you.

May you find peace one day.

[michael the hater]

Re: Further proof of evolution

The proof of GOD isn't just because the Bible says so. You know this.

please enlighten me. i'd be interested to hear your side of things.

or maybe you'd like to address some of my other points?

[The Hand]

Re: Further proof of evolution

What proof? You say god exists because the bible says so. So we ask well how you know the bible to be correct. Well because god wrote it and god is infallible…. See above for my definition of circular logic… it doesn’t work

The proof of GOD isn't just because the Bible says so. You know this.

[michael the hater]

Re: Further proof of evolution

Evolution, fossils are based on circular logic also.

Just take a look at the fossils, all we know about it is that:
1. It dies (yes they die)
2. We certain don't have a clue that it produced an offspring (so whats your point? What does it matter if that particular animal produced offspring?)
3. And of course no clue that it can produce offspring other than its own kind (what are you on about? Of course it won’t have produced offspring other than its own kind? That’s like a human birthing a tiger)
4. And why would people conclude that fossils can produced animal than its own kind, while animals today can't? (Again…. What are you on about? Why would animals produce animals other than there own kind? I really don’t see where you’re coming from)

Ok you have made no sense in that statement of points. Circular logic, by definition is, a use of reason in which the premises depends on or is equivalent to the conclusion, a method of false logic by which "this is used to prove that, and that is used to prove this"

So as a very brief example. The bible is said to be written by god. How do you prove that? Well the bible says that it was written by god therefore proving its validity.

If you really stubborn to ask fro evidence, ok I ask you:
1. Where is the fossil collection of the transition for dinosaur to turn to bird? (You’ve got to think, after millions of years we are lucky to find what we can in terms of fossils. We have found fossils that show small dinosaurs that have a likeness to birds. There will not be a fossil that shows that THAT was the turning point for dinosaurs to birds.)
2. Where is the fossil of monkeys that turning into human? (Numerous bones and fossils have been fond that show a possible link between monkeys and humans. However again there will not be a fossil that shows that THAT was the turning point for monkeys to humans)

You will say a lot of people and scientists say so.

Well let me tell you. Majority opinion always wrong. Majority thinks that big object fall faster than small object, it's wrong. God's Word is absolute, not majorit opinion. Majority thinks that electing Obama is good. And its... well, you know more about FEMA, Bilderbergs, CFR than me do.

(So the majority that think murder is wrong are wrong themselves…. Murder is right?)

Do you know who wrote about Geological Column? James Hutton. And who is he? A lawyer. Is he a geologist? No. So did he had the credential to comment about geology? Certainly No.

Do you know who wrote about Origin of Spesies and survival of the genuinest, i meant... fittest? Charles Darwin. And who is he? A degree graduated theologian. Is he a biologist? No. So did he had the credential to comment about origin of spesies? Certain No.

(Just because he had a degree in law does not mean he did not know about geology. Same with Darwin.)

And why on earth that miliions of doctors and geologists believed what a lawyer and a theologian, who has no credential on that subject at all, says about geology of earth and origin of spesies?

And why so many Creationists show proofs and evidences of a Creator, yet no one listens?

(What proof? You say god exists because the bible says so. So we ask well how you know the bible to be correct. Well because god wrote it and god is infallible…. See above for my definition of circular logic… it doesn’t work)

I can tell you why. Becase those who don't listen, are lack of normal intelligent, which in simple term, stupid

(no. we do listen but you keep going over the same things again and again and keep calling us idiots and imbeciles and tell us we’re going to hell. People don’t take kindly to threats and insults.)

Bible Account:

1. Explain to me why throughout the history, different people such as kings and peasants personally wrote their own records of God, and yet all the records are consistant? (Are you talking about the books of the bible here? I’m guessing so and yes they are all very similar and consistent. Who’s to say it was written by all these different people? Or who’s to say all these people were just going from stories they heard and just write them down?)
2. Explain to me why all the evetns of the Bible and Physics Law complementing each other?
(What do you mean by this statement? Are you talking about the laws of physics? I.e. energy cannot be destroyed, gravity, nuclear etc etc?)

I have one advice to you: Don't you ever think you will win this debate, cause we're right, you're wrong. We have the facts, you have..... none.

(Oh yeah brilliant end to your perfect argument. You wont win this debate (on a forum that does not allow debate) coz we’re right and your wrong)

If you are hardheaded enough, go call the monkeys grandpa, and certainly feel free to offer sacrifice to them.

Well well…….. What can I say…… please learn to spell??

[Seth Campbell]

Re: Further proof of evolution

So Tax Fraud is God's work?

Tax Fraud is the governments default when they want to imprison someone that they have no other charges for.

They couldn't get Capone on any real charges so they arrested him for tax fraud.

They wanted to shut Brother Hovind up so they charged him with tax fraud.

It's a show, the IRS comes up with some insane amount of taxes that you owe. There is no recourse against this, all you can do is ask THEM to go back over your books, and if you don't come up with the money, you go to jail.

[Malaysia_Christian]

Re: Further proof of evolution

So Tax Fraud is God's work?

What about you?

1. Did you pay your tax?
2. Did you obey the law?
3. Did you obey the authorities?

[CraterFace]

Re: Further proof of evolution

Of course he is. The Bible prophesies that we Christians will be persecuted for doing God's work. It proves that we are right!

So Tax Fraud is God's work?

[Malaysia_Christian]

Re: Further proof of evolution

Kent Hovind is in jail
http://freehovind.com/index

So?

What's the point?



Try to think about htis:

Do you know who wrote about Geological Column? James Hutton. And who is he? A lawyer. Is he a geologist? No. So did he had the credential to comment about geology? Certainly No.

Do you know who wrote about Origin of Spesies and survival of the genuinest, i meant... fittest? Charles Darwin. And who is he? A degree graduated theologian. Is he a biologist? No. So did he had the credential to comment about origin of spesies? Certain No.

And why on earth that miliions of doctors and geologists believed what a lawyer and a theologian, who has no credential on that subject at all, says about geology of earth and origin of spesies?

And why so many Creationists show proofs and evidences of a Creator, yet no one listens?

I can tell you why. Becase those who don't listen, are lack of normal intelligent, which in simple term, stupid

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: Further proof of evolution

Kent Hovind is in jail
http://freehovind.com/index

Of course he is. The Bible prophesies that we Christians will be persecuted for doing God's work. It proves that we are right!

Matthew 5:10 -- Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
5:11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
5:12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

2 Timothy 3:12 -- All that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

[Jenni111]

Re: Further proof of evolution

Carbon dating is a lie.

Kent Hovind is in jail
http://freehovind.com/index

[Malaysia_Christian]

Re: Further proof of evolution

That wasn’t really the point of my statement.

Originally Posted by Aristotle
And how do they know that the skeletons are 2 million years old? Were they there?

Aristotle asked how we know the bones to be 2 million years old. Were we there to see them?

Well no we weren’t. Were you there to witness the bible being written? Or god creating the earth?

My point being you can’t argue a point saying "well how do you know this? you weren’t there were you?" whenin fact no one that is alive now was there to see the bible being written, or the world get created, or anything beyond the last 100 years. All we have to go on is theories and (not trying to offend anyone here) the bible and many other books are just that. Ideas, stories and theories about what could have happened.

You can’t use the bible and the possibility that it may have been written by God (or someone close to God) to back up that fact that the bible is real/factual/historically correct when in fact there is no other evidence to back it up. It’s a circular logic and it doesn’t work.

Evolution, fossils are based on circular logic also.

Just take a look at the fossils, all we know about it is that:
1. It dies
2. We certain don't have a clue that it produced an offspring
3. And of course no clue that it can produced offspring other than its own kind
4. And why would people conclude that fossils can produced animal than its own kind, while animals today can't?


If you really stubborn to ask fro evidence, ok I ask you:
1. Where is the fossil collection of the transition for dinosaur to turn to bird?
2. Where is the fossil of monkeys that turning into human?

You will say a lot of people and scientists say so.

Well let me tell you. Majority opinion always wrong. Majority thinks that big object fall faster than small object, it's wrong. God's Word is absolute, not majorit opinion. Majority thinks that electing Obama is good. And its... well, you know more about FEMA, Bilderbergs, CFR than me do.

Do you know who wrote about Geological Column? James Hutton. And who is he? A lawyer. Is he a geologist? No. So did he had the credential to comment about geology? Certainly No.

Do you know who wrote about Origin of Spesies and survival of the fakest, i meant... fittest? Charles Darwin. And who is he? A degree graduated theologian. Is he a biologist? No. So did he had the credential to comment about origin of spesies? Certain No.

And why on earth that miliions of doctors and geologists believed what a lawyer and a theologian, who has no credential on that subject at all, says about geology of earth and origin of spesies?

And why so many Creationists show proofs and evidences of a Creator, yet no one listens?

I can tell you why. Becase those who don't listen, are lack of normal intelligent, which in simple term, stupid

Bible Account:

1. Explain to me why throughout the history, different people such as kings and peasants personally wrote their own records of God, and yet all the records are consistant?
2. Explain to me why all the evetns of the Bible and Physics Law complementing each other?

I have one advice to you: Don't you ever think you will win this debate, cause we're right, you're wrong. We have the facts, you have..... none.

If you are hardheaded enough, go call the monkeys grandpa, and certainly feel free to offer sacrifice to them.