[Levi Jones]

Re: The Big Bang. The atheist Genesis.

Now show me in the teachings of Jesus Christ (the New test) were he mentions anything about homosexuality. I do own a bible, its in my top drawer beside my bed but it is only the New test and the rites of my church.

Jesus doesn't mention it, but Paul does twice in the New Testament.

1 Corinthians 6:9 (YLT) have ye not known that the unrighteous the reign of God shall not inherit? be not led astray; neither whoremongers, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor sodomites,

There is also

Romans 1:26-27 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

There is also verse 32 which says that homos not only deserve death, but them who support them as well.

Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

You should read it yourself. The list of people deserving of death is astoundingly long!

[Lisa H]

Re: The Big Bang. The atheist Genesis.

Considering I started the thread on Genesis and the creation of the earth, It would better to see what Genesis says.

Genesis 1
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

If they were homosexuals, how would mankind multiply.

[James Dewitt]

Re: The Big Bang. The atheist Genesis.

Now show me in the teachings of Jesus Christ (the New test) were he mentions anything about homosexuality. I do own a bible, its in my top drawer beside my bed but it is only the New test and the rites of my church.

So you Cathliks don't follow the entire Bible. I wonder what Jesus has to say?

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

It seems as if Jesus wants us to follow the entire Bible, that would be both old and new testaments. I guess that's why you are not Christians.

[Lisa H]

Re: The Big Bang. The atheist Genesis.

Because he's a papist. I'm sure his exit chute is as big as the Grand Canyon by now if you know what I mean...

Wise words there Pastor Ezekiel.

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: The Big Bang. The atheist Genesis.

Why are you fixated on homosexuality?

Because he's a papist. I'm sure his exit chute is as big as the Grand Canyon by now if you know what I mean...

[James Peter]

Re: The Big Bang. The atheist Genesis.

Now show me in the teachings of Jesus Christ (the New test) were he mentions anything about homosexuality. I do own a bible, its in my top drawer beside my bed but it is only the New test and the rites of my church.

As a Catholic myself, I feel I should speak out. This person's views are NOT representative of what our Church believes!

The Roman Catholic Church has always been completely, 100% against homosexuality!

In medieval times, "abominable sodomites" were burnt alive at the stake on the orders of the Papal Inquisitors. As recently as the early nineteenth century, homosexuals were still being strung up on gallows in Britain with the blessing of Catholic leaders.

The latest Catechism, which sets out the basic doctrines of the Roman Church, was published in Britain in 1994. It is the first major revision of the Catechism since 1566.

The new Catechism describes homosexual acts as a "grave depravity" and "intrinsically disordered". It states that lesbian and gay relationships are "contrary to natural law ... and do not proceed from genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved".

the Catechism concludes: "Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery ... they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection".

In other words, lesbians and gay men are flawed human beings who can redeem themselves only by renouncing the feelings that are integral to their sexual and emotional orientation.



This was confirmed in a 1993 letter to the lesbian and gay rights group OutRage! from the Catholic Bishops' Conference of England and Wales. Written on behalf of Cardinal Hume, the letter expressed the Catholic Church's support for discrimination against lesbians and gay men with regard to marriage and immigration rights, social housing, joint property, taxation, and welfare benefits. It turned down a request to endorse a reduction in the gay male age of consent to 16, to establish parity with heterosexuals. Indeed, there is no homosexual law reform which Cardinal Hume and his bishops feel able to support. They have given their official blessing to every key aspect of legal bias against lesbians and gay men.

They are the latest in a long line of antigay pronouncements by the Catholic Church.

In 1986, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, head of the Vatican's Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (responsible for defining Roman Catholic doctrine and keeping Catholic clergy and theologians in line) issued a "Letter to the Bishops of the Catholic Church on the Pastoral Care of Homosexual Persons". Ratzinger wrote that a homosexual orientation, even if the person is totally celibate, is a "tendency" toward an "intrinsic moral evil". Moreover, a homosexual inclination is both an "objective disorder" and a "moral disorder", which is "contrary to the creative wisdom of God". "Special concern and pastoral attention should be directed towards those who have this condition, lest they be led to believe that the living out of this orientation in homosexual activity is a morally acceptable option. It is not." Ratzinger's 1986 Letter concludes that pastoral care for homosexual persons should include "the assistance of the psychological, sociological and medical sciences", and that "all support should be withdrawn from any organisations which seek to undermine the teachings of the Church, which are ambigous about it, or which ignore it entirely".


In July 1992, the Vatican issued a further proclamation authorised by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger and by Pope John Paul II, entitled "Some Considerations Concerning the Catholic Response to Legislative Proposals on the Non-Discrimination of Homosexual Persons".



This document was designed to mobilise Catholic opinion against equal rights legislation for lesbians and gay men. It describes homosexuality as an "objective disorder" and a "tendency ordered towards an intrinsic moral evil". Rejecting the concept of homosexual "human rights", it asserts there is "no right" to homosexuality; adding that the civil liberties of lesbians and gay men can be "legitimately limited for objectively disordered external conduct".

While condemning "unjust" discrimination, the Vatican document says that some forms of antigay discrimination are "not unjust" and may even be "obligatory": especially with regard to "the consignment of children to adoption or foster care, in employment of teachers or coaches, and in military recruitment".



the 1992 document suggests that when lesbians and gay men demand civil rights, "neither the Church nor society should be surprised when ... irrational and violent reactions increase".

This implies that by asking for human rights, lesbians and gay men encourage homophobic prejudice and violence

More recently, in February 1994, the Pope attacked the European Parliament's support for the repeal of antigay legislation in member states. Condemning homosexuality as an "aberrant deviation", he described proposals to remove discrimination as an "attack on the family" and accused Euro-MP's of "inappropriately conferring an institutional value on deviant behaviour".

In Italy, Bologna City Council in 1993 introduced an equal opportunities policy to give homosexual couples access to municipal housing on the same basis as heterosexual partners.

Cardinal Silvio Oddi condemned Bologna's decision as "bestiality" and warned that "divine retribution" would fall upon the city.

Cardinal John O'Connor, in the United States, ordered that gay Catholics dying of Aids should be refused the last rites unless they repent of their "sin" and renounce their partners. The New York diocese has supported a ban on Irish Catholic lesbians and gay men marching in New York's annual St. Patrick's Day parade. It is opposing attempts by the city's education authorities to encourage greater understanding and acceptance of homosexuals through the inclusion of nonjudgemental information about homosexual issues in the school curriculum.

In Nicaragua, Cardinal Obando y Bravo attacked homosexuality as "immoral" and publicly aligned the Catholic Church with the recriminalisation of lesbian and gay sexuality by President Chamorro's right-wing UNO coalition. Article 204 of the new criminal code stipulates three years' imprisonment for anyone who "induces, promotes, propagandises or practises in scandalous form concubinage between two people of the same sex". This legislation penalises not only victimless homosexual behaviour, but also the advocacy of homosexual human rights and a homosexual lifestyle.

At the 1995 UN International Women's Conference in Beijing, the Vatican opposed discussions on lesbian human rights and backed moves to block the participation of lesbian organisations and delegates.




The following year, a new Vatican handbook on education condemned homosexual relationships as a "disorder", and urged Catholic parents to remove their children from sex education classes that discuss gay sexuality and teach safer sex.



Also in 1996, the Vatican newspaper L'Osservatore called on its readers to vote against political candidates who back legal equality for lesbians and gays. Attacking a huge same-sex partnership ceremony in San Francisco where dozens of homosexual couples made declarations of commitment with the endorsement of Mayor Willie Brown, the newspaper said: "The citizen who ... favours the election of a candidate formally committed to translating homosexual demands into law, cannot be without censure. Gay marriage fundamentally undermines the family model on which human civilisation was built ... The legislature cannot be turned into a clerk for changing habits, least of all deviant trends."

in Britain, at the height of the 1994 Parliamentary debate on the Age of Consent, Cardinal Hume declared that "homosexual genital acts, even between consenting adults, are morally wrong". He urged Parliament to be "cautious".

[Lisa H]

Re: The Big Bang. The atheist Genesis.

Now show me in the teachings of Jesus Christ (the New test) were he mentions anything about homosexuality. I do own a bible, its in my top drawer beside my bed but it is only the New test and the rites of my church.
.

Why are you fixated on homosexuality?

[Meek and Humble]

Re: The Big Bang. The atheist Genesis.

Now show me in the teachings of Jesus Christ (the New test) were he mentions anything about homosexuality. I do own a bible, its in my top drawer beside my bed but it is only the New test and the rites of my church.

http://thebible.net/modules.php?name=Read&itemid=81&cat=9

1. And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ “and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh?’” (Matt. 19:4.)

Consider: Since Jesus approved of His Father’s plan [i.e., one man, one woman, one flesh,] could we correctly say that Jesus condemned homosexuality?

2. “For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?” (John 5:46-47.)

Consider: Since Jesus was born and lived under the Law of Moses, and since He endorsed the Law of Moses, and since the Law of Moses explicitly condemned homosexuality, then could we correctly say that Jesus also condemned it?

3. “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. He will glorify Me, for he will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you” (John 16:12-15.)

Consider: Since 1) the apostles would be guided into all truth by the Holy Spirit, and since 2) the Holy Spirit would not speak on His own authority but instead would speak on the authority of Christ, and since 3) the Holy Spirit would take of what was Christ’s and declare it to the apostles, then by WHOSE AUTHORITY would the apostle’s speak/write/teach when the Holy Spirit guided them into all truth? Answer: Christ’s.

Jesus condemn all forms of sexual immorality:

What comes out of you is what defiles you. For from within, out of your hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. All these evils come from inside and defile you. (TNIV, Mark 7:20-23)


Perhaps the reason Jesus said nothing specifically about homosexuality was that "gay lifestyles" were virtually unknown in the Israel of his day. Everyone knew and understood the culturally acceptable standards. Sexual immorality in any form was shameful and not for open public discussion. In fact, even the suggestion of heterosexual activity before marriage was scandalous:


He also spoke of the destruction of the Sodomites’ cities of Sodom and Gomorrah (Luke 17:28-32; Matthew 10:15; 11:24; Mark 6:11). If there had been 5 couples in a “loving married relationship” by your perverted view, hundreds of thousands of souls would not have been destroyed. Ten righteous souls is all that were needed to spare the city.

[exorcism]

Re: The Big Bang. The atheist Genesis.

Should I help you? I guess you do not have a Bible. Pastor Levi asked what does the Old testament and the torah say about Homosexuality?

Now show me in the teachings of Jesus Christ (the New test) were he mentions anything about homosexuality. I do own a bible, its in my top drawer beside my bed but it is only the New test and the rites of my church.

The Catholic Satanic Church teaches people that because 1) it's what like people like to hear, and 2) it's what Satan wants people to hear.

I sense a lot of hate in you my son, we are but humble Christians not unlike yourself. We learn the same teachings of Jesus as you do. And to call us Satanic shows me just how full of hate you are. Does God condone hatred? No, no matter what way you twist the teachings he does not.

[Meek and Humble]

Re: The Big Bang. The atheist Genesis.

I was thought of a tolerant and loving God, He who loves all of his creations equally.

The Catholic Satanic Church teaches people that because 1) it's what like people like to hear, and 2) it's what Satan wants people to hear.

The Bible says mo such thing.

Leviticus 20:23 And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them.

Psalm 5:5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

Psalm 11:5 The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.

Proverbs 6:16, 19 These six things doth the LORD hate ... A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

Hosea 9:15 I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings.

Malachi 1:3 And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.

Romans 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

[James Dewitt]

Re: The Big Bang. The atheist Genesis.

I was thought of a tolerant and loving God, He who loves all of his creations equally. I was thought to love my brother no matter of creed, sex, colour or otherwise. Now the Torah I know little about.

Should I help you? I guess you do not have a Bible. Pastor Levi asked what does the Old testament and the torah say about Homosexuality?

This is what the Holy KJV1611 says. I can look up info in the Torah if you like. I am quite sure the results will not differ much.
Leviticus 18:22
Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
Leviticus 20:13
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

[exorcism]

Re: The Big Bang. The atheist Genesis.

What do the torah and New Testament say about homosexuality? Do they say it's okay?

I was thought of a tolerant and loving God, He who loves all of his creations equally. I was thought to love my brother no matter of creed, sex, colour or otherwise. Now the Torah I know little about.

[James Dewitt]

Re: The Big Bang. The atheist Genesis.

Genesis (along with the rest of the Old test) is a guideline to base morales on but should not be taken literally. God gave us the power of thought and logic for a reason, so we can figure out the universe we live in.

In nomine Patris et Filii et Spiritus Santi

Lets see do these scriptures say that they are guide lines?

2nd Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

2 Peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Habakkuk 2:2 And the LORD answered me, and said, Write the vision, and make it plain upon tables, that he may run that readeth it.



No not so much. They do however tell us that the Bible is true and we should follow it.



Deuteronomy 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Deuteronomy 12:32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

Proverbs 30:5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
Proverbs 30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

Matthew 4:4 Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Revelation 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

No they say nothing of guidelines. Clearly we should follow the entire Bible, word for word. Why do you Cathliks feel the need to question God's words? Can you show me just where it is in the Bible that say we should?

[Levi Jones]

Re: The Big Bang. The atheist Genesis.

I would like to see solid proof to back this up. In fact I know of 3 homosexuals on my block 2 are devout Christians the other one is Jewish.

What do the torah and New Testament say about homosexuality? Do they say it's okay?

[exorcism]

Re: The Big Bang. The atheist Genesis.

Because it is a well known fact that there is a direct correlation between homosexuality and atheism.

I would like to see solid proof to back this up. In fact I know of 3 homosexuals on my block 2 are devout Christians the other one is Jewish.

Now for the matter at hand, I do not see why both cannot be, God could of created the singularity and then let nature take care of the rest. After lurking these forums for the past 2 days I find that you guys think that if science is right then God cannot exist, nothing could be farther from the truth. Genesis (along with the rest of the Old test) is a guideline to base morales on but should not be taken literally. God gave us the power of thought and logic for a reason, so we can figure out the universe we live in.

In nomine Patris et Filii et Spiritus Santi