[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: PROOF that the sun is only 32 miles in diameter!

One of the points you might like to address is that it really doesn't matter to you if the earth goes round the sun or the sun goes round the earth - you're doing this simply to annoy people. You are what people call a troll.

[GoldenShower]

Re: PROOF that the sun is only 32 miles in diameter!

Kilometers are what I use, but was reffering to miles for your ease of reading.I was not reffering to temperature (which is measured in celcius where I live, lr Kelvin if you want to get scientific). I was reffering to the angular tilt of the Earth's axis which allows the sun's rays to be concentrated in the areas ofbthe TOCancer and ToCapricorn

[Dr. Anthony J. Toole]

Re: PROOF that the sun is only 32 miles in diameter!

the sun is not physically in the space between the TO Cancer and the TOCapricorn. The sun is thousands of miles away, and it's rays are the thing that shines between those two tropics. It shines there because of the 23.56 degree tilt of the Earth's axis. Seriously, read a science book

I think you're confusing miles with kilometers. Miles are what Americans use. Degrees are in Fahrenheit and measure temperature - 23.56 is very COLD and would not be found in the tropics.

[Didymus Much]

Re: PROOF that the sun is only 32 miles in diameter!

...The sun is thousands of miles away...

Uh, millions. 93 of them, in fact (on average).

...It shines there because of the 23.56 degree tilt of the Earth's axis...

...Seriously, read a science book

Yeah, you too.

[GoldenShower]

Re: PROOF that the sun is only 32 miles in diameter!

the sun is not physically in the space between the TO Cancer and the TOCapricorn. The sun is thousands of miles away, and it's rays are the thing that shines between those two tropics. It shines there because of the 23.56 degree tilt of the Earth's axis. Seriously, read a science book

[Elmer G. White]

Re: PROOF that the sun is only 32 miles in diameter!

Miss Sorcerer,

You are very angry person. Apparently you joined this Forum in a state of hubris certain of your victory against God-fearing honest citizens. Things did not work out very well and now you are projecting your inner turmoil and anxiety towards us.

You should know that our facts did not originate with us. We do not have opinions. We are only sharing God's opinions with you. With regards to this, I am astonished that you feel so much anger towards God, towards Jesus.

Galatians 4:16
Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

Your fallacies did not end with the ad hominem nor with your appeals to authority (and the occasional ad misericordiam). Now you are presenting us some straw men: your own caricatures of Creation Science and then you attack not against the actual Science but your own fabrication.

I am only going to assess the part about baraminology and Flood theory here just to show you how badly mistaken you are about the best state-of-the-art Creation Science.

...If you believe in creation then you cannot know anything of zoology. Over 99% of all animals that ever existed are extinct. Dinosaurs were on the Ark and survived the Flood according to Genesis. What happened to one of the most successful groups of animals ever in a few thousand years? Where did they all go? How about the thirty million different types of insects on the Ark? Don't say vegetation mats because they might surive weeks if the sea is dead calm but not a year on abnormnally rough seas without land to calm it down...

• Over 99% of animals died in the Flood. We totally agree here. I have personally calculated that it must be closet to 99.99999%
• Yes, dinosaurs survived the Flood (Job 40:15). Subsequentely, they were hunted into extinction by the re-emerging human population and they also succumbed to genetic entropy.
• 30 million insect species, you mean? Now we're talking.

This is where your straw man enters the discussion.

Species is an invention of secular biology. Creation Science defines organisms as baramins or Created Kinds. They were Created during the Creation Week:

Genesis 1:21
And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

The Kinds were the animals that entered the Ark:

Genesis 8:19
Every beast, every creeping thing, and every fowl, and whatsoever creepeth upon the earth, after their kinds, went forth out of the ark.

For instance, there were only eight (8) dinosaur kinds in the Ark. This has been calculated by an atheist scholar and published in a respected peer-reviewed paper (that you atheists worship; P. Senter: Journal of Evolutionary Biology 24, 2197-2216, 2011).

After the Flood these Created Dinosaur Kinds experienced very rapid micro-evolution (almost one new species [they became species after the Flood] each year) because their mutations accummulated (genetic entropy) and because God-designed genetic phenomena began to appear. The same took place among other taxa. Creation Scientists all over the world are at this very moment defining these Ark Kinds, the progenitors of the present biodiversity. Insects are quite insignificant and mostly vermin so it has not been pivotal to start with them. However, mammalian Ark Kinds have been determined in detail by Dr. Lightner (the 137 Created mammalian kinds have produced the about 4500 species we can see at present).

• Vegetation mats? Who came up with this ridiculous idea?

The first task of any Creation Scientist is to employ source criticism. Is this claim of "vegetation mats" based on the Bible. I can tell you that it is NOT.

Genesis 7:22-23
All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died. And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.

We can clearly see how everything not on the Ark perished. This excludes any vegetation mats. I am deeply ashamed that some otherwise respected scholars cling onto this assertion despite its impossibility, i.e., Biblical impossibility. While I am offended that you take that claim as Creation Science, it is a good thing that you find that claim as ridiculous as it is.

You see, this is the kind of discussion that benefits both you (you may find Jesus) and us (we can share His good news with you). The remaining part of your posts goes on to assessing my personality (again, you would have to be a Pastor to understand the intricacies of a True Christian™ soul). Still, you show promise. Creation Science is very technical and still it respects the aspects of philosopy of science that you find so riduculous (have you ever heard about the ad ridiculum fallacy?).

• Falsification (God proven to be just fantasy with 100% reliability).
• Burden of proof (it is on those who post incredible claims such as claiming the Bible to be fallible).

We DO understand that it is very hard to cast off the delusion of atheist science. When someone has allocated years and years of study on preposterous claims of evolution, etc., it is hard to let go of this deception and embrace Jesus.

I've been there. I still recommend it. Because:

Revelation 21:4
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.


Yours in Christ,

Elmer

[Alvin Moss]

Re: PROOF that the sun is only 32 miles in diameter!

I have spent decades studying astronomy and cosmology.

Sorcery? Astrology? Cosmetology? Do you really expect to impress us with your sin? You are just another homosexual hairdresser with a ouija board. Please don't expect us to take you seriously. Dr. White has attempted to help and guide you and look at the results. You are a rude pervert. What do you want here?

[Didymus Much]

Re: PROOF that the sun is only 32 miles in diameter!

...I could go on and show you and your fellow ignoramouses...

Protip: insults work better when you spell them properly.

[The Sorcerer]

Re: PROOF that the sun is only 32 miles in diameter!

Elmer G. White. Since my joining the long list of "the banned" is merely a short matter of time here as you seem to think that this forum is a real church where only religion counts, I may as well speak my mind. I thought I could debate here even about religion, but it is obvious that you have no interest in what can be proved to be true, and your idea of facts are what you would like to be true and nothing more. As Humpty Dumpty said, words mean what he wants them to mean and nothing more nor less.

You say "Thus, to avoid fallacies, we should consider the actual content of a text and not the person writing it." but you use the title: Distinguished Professor of Prayer Healing and Creation Zoology (Baraminology). So did you award yourself the tile or like with the many doctors of answersingenesis and Kent Hovind, did you pay twenty bucks for it? Prayer healing provably does not work which everyone knows which is why when people are sick they go to doctors and hospitals, not priests and churches. So called christian scientists who believe in prayer healing have a very high death rate from easily preventable illnesses. If you believe in creation then you cannot know anything of zoology. Over 99% of all animals that ever existed are extinct. Dinosaurs were on the Ark and survived the Flood according to Genesis. What happened to one of the most successful groups of animals ever in a few thousand years? Where did they all go? How about the thirty million different types of insects on the Ark? Don't say vegetation mats because they might surive weeks if the sea is dead calm but not a year on abnormnally rough seas without land to calm it down.

You just dismissed all what is proven to be true by flatly denying it then quoting some IRRELEVANT bible verses. That is not a discussion. That is just plain ignorance and tyranny. Ad hominem is one of those silly phrases used by silly people as you prove. I asked you on what grounds you dismissed the FACTS I posted and you could not reply. It ain't in the bible, a book of hearsay and lies where even Genesis was written sixth to fourth century BC, so thousands of years after events portaryed, and Exodus and other books written even later, so it ain't true. Duh.

The (KJV) bible contains 535 contradictions according to the skepticsannotatedbible site. OK, you may argue about them but if an infallible God wrote the bible, there would be NO contradictions, or even seeming contradictions. There would be no late additions like the all important last 12 verses of Mark, which are known fakes and the oft quoted adultery story in John 8, another late fake. The book is a guide to God only written by fallible people.

I know your personality. I looked up your profile. A victim of atheist persecution as in: "I am treated as evil by those who feel persecuted because they are not allowed to force me to believe as they do." You are intolerant in the extreme like your mate, Kim Jong Un.

An appeal to authority as in I know what I am talking about and you provably do not. If you saw someone on their site on the internet claiming Jesus lived and died just 500 years ago and his father Joseph owned a pork butcher's shop in Jerusalem, would you appeal to authority by claiming to know the bible when that person obviously does not? As I said, I know astronomy and I know cosmology as I know other science and the people here so obviously have no knowledge of science. You should stick with religion which you at least have some idea of, but not a good one.

The philosophy of science? What has that got to do with the price of string beans? It's science without the science.

As to your 1Timothy quote, let someone like me who knows a lot more about the bible than you do quote back on it:

1 Timothy is one of the three epistles known collectively as the pastorals (1 Timothy, 2 Timothy, and Titus). They were not included in Marcion's canon of ten epistles assembled c. 140 CE. Against Wallace, there is no certain quotation of these epistles before Irenaeus c. 170 CE.

It's another late fake book, along with 2Peter. As you quote 2Kings 18:25, let me quote verse 27, just 2 verses later:

2Kings 18:27 But Rabshakeh said unto them, Hath my master sent me to thy master, and to thee, to speak these words? hath he not sent me to the men which sit on the wall, that they may eat their own dung, and drink their own piss with you?

I could go on and show you and your fellow ignoramouses wrong in so many ways but you will not let me as it would show you all up were I given a fair chance. Get back on your porch and play your banjo, Elmer. Some tourist folk want to see the village idiot performing.

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: PROOF that the sun is only 32 miles in diameter!

On a spherical world, we can only see the sun from certain parts of it, allowing that the planet tilts 23 degrees and rotates, so we have the two "Tropics" you mention. For the sun to be just 32 miles in diameter, it would have to be very close to the Earth.

From different parts of Earth's orbit ie: one side of the sun and then the other, we can see different stars with telescopic accuracy showing we have moved a great distance. That is how we get the measurement, a parsec, and how we worek out a distance of 186 million miles in diameter as our orbit.

Back around the same time, it was worked out that if the sun were made of coal, it would burn itself out in less than five years, so what do you think the sun is made of, remembering that by using a spectroscope attached to a telescope, we can know what it is made of and how it works.

We can see that like the Moon going through phases, so know Mercury and Venus which goes through the same phases are closer to the Sun than we are. Knowing the speed of light and radar waves, bouncing radar waves off of them in 1966 and 1967, we not only found the "Shapiro delay" to be true, but also their distances, which even on our side of the Sun and close to us can be over 30 million miles for Venus and over 65 million miles for Mercury, and the Sun is beyond them so well over 65 million miles away.

We have sent probes to near the Sun so we know it is 93 million miles away, on average, and 864,000 miles in diameter. The Sun rotates, so we can get a redshift and blueshift in it's spectra, which tells us how fast it is rotating, so it's size.

If the Sun were just 32 miles in diameter, it would be a tiny speck in the sky and we would all have frozen to death long ago.

tl;dr

Are you aware that being a sorcerer is a sure-fire way of getting your ticket punched for hell?

[James Hutchins]

Re: PROOF that the sun is only 32 miles in diameter!

The waters in the heavens in the bible comes from the fact that Genesis was heavily based on the Egyptian creation story, with the Jews working in Egypt in the lean years back home (they were never slaves) so they knew their stories and their myths.

The Egyptians said that a mountain rose out of the river Nile. The mountain was called a firmament. It not only means heavens, etc. So there were waters above and below the firmament. From this mountain came the first god, Atun, who was both male and female. This explains some of the strange stuff from Genesis 1 and 2.

The ancients thought there was a river in the sky. Get out in the country away from city lights and on a dark night, you can just see the Milky Way, which is a side on view of our Galaxy of hundreds of billions of stars. It looks like a silvery stream.

Do you believe that the Sun orbits our planet? You could try and explain the planet Mercury's retrograde orbit where it appears to move in the opposite direction to the other planets for a time, where actually we see it on the other side of the Sun.

Since we know the Moon makes waves in our seas on Earth, why does the nearby Sun not do the same?

Friend, you spout a lot of nonsense and not speck backed up by God in Creation.
Tell me, do you ever venture out of your cave during the day to the oceans edge? There are waves during the day, massive ones.

[Elmer G. White]

Re: PROOF that the sun is only 32 miles in diameter!

I have spent decades studying astronomy and cosmology. What are your qualifications to just tell me I am wrong? Denial as you use is not a form of argument. Neither is a total lack of any knowledge of science.

Dear Sorcerer,

You can claim any degree or education on the Interwebs, but you would be surprised to learn that many people claim false credentials online. I know this might come as a surprise to you!

Thus, to avoid fallacies, we should consider the actual content of a text and not the person writing it. Regarding your post above, you failed miserably to do so.

1. By concentrating on my credentials, of which you are also ignorant, you commit the ad hominem or an appeal to person (green in your post). You do not assess the Scripture, only my personality or you ignorance of it.

2. You also commit an appeal to authority by boasting your education (red).

A good education in science includes some basic concepts of the philosophy of science. One part of this is how to avoid these fallacies, of which this direct ad hominem is the most rude and primitive (let's see if you also try out with the indirect one).

I must agree with Jesus regarding your reply:

1 Timothy 6:20
O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:


Your in Christ,

Elmer

[The Sorcerer]

Re: PROOF that the sun is only 32 miles in diameter!

Miss Sorcerer,

All you have presented above is based on blind faith.

Elmer

I have spent decades studying astronomy and cosmology. What are your qualifications to just tell me I am wrong? Denial as you use is not a form of argument. Neither is a total lack of any knowledge of science.

[The Sorcerer]

Re: PROOF that the sun is only 32 miles in diameter!

Miss Sorcerer,

All you have presented above is based on blind faith. This is in contrast to the Bible which is not Blind Faith but it has been thoroughly proven as explained in the verse below:


Elmer

I could not see how to send a reply to your private message.

If science is blind faith and you have the facts of the bible to support you, why will you not debate? Why have I got a warning message for merely quoting astronomy that can factually be proved true. If it is not true, you can use the truth in the bible to prove me wrong.

Or is this just a place where people make sermons on what they THINK is true and no one is allowed to contradict them?

[Elmer G. White]

Re: PROOF that the sun is only 32 miles in diameter!

Hold you fist at arm's length and stick up your thumb. First look at it and behind it with your left eye then your right eye. It appears to have moved, just by the view from the distance between each eye. This is called parallax.

Planets and the Sun were observed from different places on the Earth at the same time and using those known distances between the observers, we could see how much the planets and Sun appeared to have moved.

Cassini did this back in 1672 and found Mars did not come within 35 million miles of us and that Saturn was 900 million miles away, though it is big enough to see with the naked eye.

Miss Sorcerer,

All you have presented above is based on blind faith. This is in contrast to the Bible which is not Blind Faith but it has been thoroughly proven as explained in the verse below:

Psalms 12:6
The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.

Your claims are based on personal observations by your senses and measurements conducted by telescopes and probes. Why do you trust these data? Our senses are fallible, our cognitive abilities are degenerated because of the Fall (Genesis 3:6). You must believe these unreliable instruments to have blind faith in your twisted vision of the Universe.

• You must trust that the photons carrying the messages have not been designed to fool you.
• You must trust that these arcane instruments measure objective reality.
• You must have Faith in the atheist scholars who report these data that they do not aim to fool you.

They do! They are corrupted!

Psalms 53:1
(To the chief Musician upon Mahalath, Maschil, A Psalm of David.) The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.

You must also trust that the Truth™ can be discerned by observation. It cannot. The atheists agree. The string theory states that there are up to 10 extra dimensions that are too small for us to observe. This is proof that the secular physics can never unravel the Truth™. Things are volatile and fuzzy: we cannot know the outcome of physical phenomena. Chaos. What can we find in these extra dimensions.

God in His Trinity. For a brief interval one of the Three that is One that is Jesus Christ was projected onto the three-dimensional Earth with the Firmament (Genesis 1:6). He told us the Truth™ (John 14:11). Because we failed Him from the very beginning (Genesis 3:6), He fools us all the time.

Jeremiah 20:7
O LORD, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived: thou art stronger than I, and hast prevailed: I am in derision daily, every one mocketh me.

Your senses have been deceived, your observations are faulty. Only is Jesus can we find the Truth. This is expressed in the Bible.

Revelation 7:1
And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.


Yours in Christ,

Elmer