[Cranky Old Man]

Re: I don't need drugs or doctors.

If there was any evidence prayer could change things, more people would be praying.

The Bible is filled with eyewitness reports of people having success with praying. That you are ignoring the evidence doesn't mean there is no evidence.

In your world that means everyone is guilty. Who is the judge here?

God of course.

Bad things happen to good people.

That never happens. If they would have been good people, nothing bad would have happened.

A tornado hits a house, the family survives, was that then Gods fault?

No. God never makes mistakes (Psalm 139:2-6).

you can not do anything to earn your own salvation. Faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior is the only way to be saved

You are contradicting yourself here. Having faith in Jesus is doing something. Actually it is doing the most important thing you can ever do.

They were healed thanks to the miracle of modern medicine

No. God created modern medicine so they were healed thanks to God.

[IdiocyofMYUniverse]

Re: I don't need drugs or doctors.

They clearly do not deserve to be healed. Probably because they refuse to properly worship Jesus Christ. It's always their mistake, never God's. Everything bad that happens to someone is well deserved punishment for their wrongdoings.

If there was any evidence prayer could change things, more people would be praying. In your world that means everyone is guilty. Who is the judge here? Their is power in prayer. Negative thoughts will bring negative results even in prayer. If we are to agree that bad things happen to people that deserve it, then the line for bad things to happen to people is going to get very long. Bad things happen to good people. Clearly you have been mislead if you believe all bad things are punishment. A tornado hits a house, the family survives, was that then Gods fault? Or a natural weather phenomena? You say but God could of moved the tornado around the house. Maybe God wants the family to move? All things work for the greater good. When Jesus died on the cross, he said "It is finished" you can not do anything to earn your own salvation. Faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior is the only way to be saved. There are people in the world who had cancer. I assure you they did not say a single prayer. They were healed thanks to the miracle of modern medicine, using methods devised by man. Not by fairies, not by goblins, not by god. By humans. You sir, are a mormon. I hope you get badly ill one day. Don't go to the hospital though, pray to god. See how far it gets you. Nowhere, obviously.

[Cranky Old Man]

Re: I don't need drugs or doctors.

What about those who pray and still fall sick?

They clearly do not deserve to be healed. Probably because they refuse to properly worship Jesus Christ. It's always their mistake, never God's. Everything bad that happens to someone is well deserved punishment for their wrongdoings.

[IdiocyofMYUniverse]

Re: I don't need drugs or doctors.

Anytime I am sick, I just pray. I have lived almost 60 years so far. I am a living testament to why we don't need medicine. We need prayer. I propose that medical schools should replace all those heathen "medical skill" teachings and teach prayer. No dumb doctor will ever lay a papist hand on me! I am healthy and it's all because I PRAY TO JESUS CHRIST AND GOD!!!!!!!!!!!

You can stick your head out of the dark ages now. It's pretty nice out here.

What about those who pray and still fall sick?
It's not that simple. I've never prayed a day in my life and I've never even had a cold. Working out and eating healthy works a lot better. Most people get sick and it just runs its course eventually. They don't need to go see a doctor or pray. However, I'd like to see you try that prayer trick without going to the doctor if you ever get cancer instead of a case of the sniffles. That's probably because the only ailments you've had have been the common cold, flu, a few cuts or burns, and mild infections that the body can fight off by itself such as UTIs and ear infections. You may be physically healthy, but your rant indicates that you are not psychologically healthy. Perhaps you should try praying for mental health. Good luck for when you get cancer or organ failure. I'd love to see how far praying gets you.

[Brother Harold Porter]

Re: I don't need drugs or doctors.

Eustace Jones,

I am very happy for you that you are in good health. I, however, have to disagree on your opinion that we don't need any doctors to stay that way... It is very true that drugs are prescribed for almost no reason at all anymore these days. BUT! This does not mean that serious diseases should not be treated by a doctor.

Friend, all we have to do is ask Jesus to heal us and it happens.

Jeremiah 17:14 "Heal me, O Lord, and I shall be healed; save me, and I shall be saved: for thou art my praise."

Diseases (serious or otherwise) only threaten us because we do not ask Him to cure them.

In Christ

[Dannyman]

Re: I don't need drugs or doctors.

Eustace Jones,

I am very happy for you that you are in good health. I, however, have to disagree on your opinion that we don't need any doctors to stay that way... It is very true that drugs are prescribed for almost no reason at all anymore these days. BUT! This does not mean that serious diseases should not be treated by a doctor.

[bioggy]

Re: I don't need drugs or doctors.

Mr. Eustace Jones I am glad that you put your Faith in the Lord and He Blesses you with good health!.

I must admit that He Blesses me with good health except for my chest in the Winter and when I catch the cold etc. but I take that as being punished for my past sins and I think it is a light punishment for what I used to be!.

[Eustace Jones]

Re: I don't need drugs or doctors.

Excuse me Eustace; I mean no harm. You are a forum member. Christ has smiled on you. However, your avatar makes you look like you are around 93. Please (if you wish) pick a virile picture of yourself. One that encases your true beauty and one which Christ would find pleasing. I can change it for you if you wish but it is a simple process. Please let me know. I love you like a brother in and with Our Saviour. Welcome to Landover.

Deaner

I do say, if you know a way to make me look my age, I would be grateful. My face may not reflect my age I know this. But I love Christ and the Lord all the same!

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: I don't need drugs or doctors.

Well, actually you cannot heal anyone of anything because God heals, not people. It is ours to pray and it is up to God to heal the sick and pardon the repentant.

It is encouraging to see someone such as yourself freed from the cloying mire of superstition and false belief. Here's Romans 8. I will link the cross-references for that other jewish so that he can read for himself.

ROMANS 8
1-8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

(Galatians 5:16-26)

9-11 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

(Genesis 21:1-8; Galatians 4:1-7)

12-17 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

(II Corinthians 5:1-10)

18-25 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

26-27 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

(Ephesians 1:3-14)

28-30 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

31-34 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

(Psalm 44)

35-39 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
KJV

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: I don't need drugs or doctors.

I wonder why can't I cure atheism by praying for atheists.

God does not hear the Prayer of a joo. I've been saying this forever from my Pulpit!

[Irinka the repentant jewess]

Re: I don't need drugs or doctors.

I wonder why can't I cure atheism by praying for atheists.

Well, actually you cannot heal anyone of anything because God heals, not people. It is ours to pray and it is up to God to heal the sick and pardon the repentant.

[Deaner]

Re: I don't need drugs or doctors.

I wonder why can't I cure atheism by praying for atheists.

Um... because you're a yid?

[Deaner]

Re: I don't need drugs or doctors.

Anytime I am sick, I just pray. I have lived almost 60 years so far. I am a living testament to why we don't need medicine. We need prayer. I propose that medical schools should replace all those heathen "medical skill" teachings and teach prayer. No dumb doctor will ever lay a papist hand on me! I am healthy and it's all because I PRAY TO JESUS CHRIST AND GOD!!!!!!!!!!!

Excuse me Eustace; I mean no harm. You are a forum member. Christ has smiled on you. However, your avatar makes you look like you are around 93. Please (if you wish) pick a virile picture of yourself. One that encases your true beauty and one which Christ would find pleasing. I can change it for you if you wish but it is a simple process. Please let me know. I love you like a brother in and with Our Saviour. Welcome to Landover.

Deaner

[RepentingJew]

Re: I don't need drugs or doctors.

I wonder why can't I cure atheism by praying for atheists.

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: I don't need drugs or doctors.

Hallelujah! I was immediately reminded of when God smote Uzziah with instant leprosy of the head as a reminder of His Perfect Love

The demarkation dispute is preserved in the historical record:

II CHRONICLES 26
15 [Uzziah] made in Jerusalem engines, invented by cunning men, to be on the towers and upon the bulwarks, to shoot arrows and great stones withal. And his name spread far abroad; for he was marvellously helped, till he was strong.
16 But when he was strong, his heart was lifted up to his destruction: for he transgressed against the LORD his God, and went into the temple of the LORD to burn incense upon the altar of incense.
17 And Azariah the priest went in after him, and with him fourscore priests of the LORD, that were valiant men:
18 And they withstood Uzziah the king, and said unto him, It appertaineth not unto thee, Uzziah, to burn incense unto the LORD, but to the priests the sons of Aaron, that are consecrated to burn incense: go out of the sanctuary; for thou hast trespassed; neither shall it be for thine honour from the LORD God.
19 Then Uzziah was wroth, and had a censer in his hand to burn incense: and while he was wroth with the priests, the leprosy even rose up in his forehead before the priests in the house of the LORD, from beside the incense altar.
20 And Azariah the chief priest, and all the priests, looked upon him, and, behold, he was leprous in his forehead, and they thrust him out from thence; yea, himself hasted also to go out, because the LORD had smitten him.
21 And Uzziah the king was a leper unto the day of his death, and dwelt in a several house, being a leper; for he was cut off from the house of the LORD:
KJV . look up

God is very particular about incense. Who should light it. Who should hold the censer. The smell alone is insufficient. Everything must be just so; then the smell. Othewise expect leprotic affliction, swallowing by the earth opening up (both occur instantly and target those in transgression, who might not be exactly those we'd expect). The odour accompanying these fumes is prayer. Real prayer: the prayers of Saints (us) - not the prayers offered to demons (catholics and mahommedans for example).

God explains:

REVELATION
5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
8:3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.
4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.
5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.
6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.
KJV

When events outside of time are manifest within our corrupt and ruined world they may be retroactive, as it might seem to us, just as the enigma of future history—preserved for us in Revelation, Daniel and many other places so that we may know with certainty what happened in days yet to come—presents as mysterious, because we are limited. And yet the evidence is all around us. Whether that earthquake in Revelation is the same event as the one in Numbers 16 obviously I am not equipped to judge. And yet together we shall judge the angels; that's how Great our God really is. I can hardly wait for eternity

NUMBERS 16
1-4 Now Korah, the son of Izhar, the son of Kohath, the son of Levi, and Dathan and Abiram, the sons of Eliab, and On, the son of Peleth, sons of Reuben, took men: And they rose up before Moses, with certain of the children of Israel, two hundred and fifty princes of the assembly, famous in the congregation, men of renown: And they gathered themselves together against Moses and against Aaron, and said unto them, Ye take too much upon you, seeing all the congregation are holy, every one of them, and the LORD is among them: wherefore then lift ye up yourselves above the congregation of the LORD? And when Moses heard it, he fell upon his face:
5-7 And he spake unto Korah and unto all his company, saying, Even to morrow the LORD will shew who are his, and who is holy; and will cause him to come near unto him: even him whom he hath chosen will he cause to come near unto him. This do; Take you censers, Korah, and all his company; And put fire therein, and put incense in them before the LORD to morrow: and it shall be that the man whom the LORD doth choose, he shall be holy: ye take too much upon you, ye sons of Levi.
15 And Moses was very wroth, and said unto the LORD, Respect not thou their offering: I have not taken one ass from them, neither have I hurt one of them.
20-21 And the LORD spake unto Moses and unto Aaron, saying, Separate yourselves from among this congregation, that I may consume them in a moment.
28-30 And Moses said, Hereby ye shall know that the LORD hath sent me to do all these works; for I have not done them of mine own mind. If these men die the common death of all men, or if they be visited after the visitation of all men; then the LORD hath not sent me. But if the LORD make a new thing, and the earth open her mouth, and swallow them up, with all that appertain unto them, and they go down quick into the pit; then ye shall understand that these men have provoked the LORD.
31-32 And it came to pass, as he had made an end of speaking all these words, that the ground clave asunder that was under them: And the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed them up, and their houses, and all the men that appertained unto Korah, and all their goods.

PLAGUE

41 But on the morrow all the congregation of the children of Israel murmured against Moses and against Aaron, saying, Ye have killed the people of the LORD.
44 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
45 Get you up from among this congregation, that I may consume them as in a moment. And they fell upon their faces.
46 And Moses said unto Aaron, Take a censer, and put fire therein from off the altar, and put on incense, and go quickly unto the congregation, and make an atonement for them: for there is wrath gone out from the LORD; the plague is begun.

EVIDENCE

47 And Aaron took as Moses commanded, and ran into the midst of the congregation; and, behold, the plague was begun among the people: and he put on incense, and made an atonement for the people.

PROOF

48 And he stood between the dead and the living; and the plague was stayed.
KJV . look up

The inappropriate use of incense, the inappropriate use of prayer, according sainthood to demons, inappropriate medication and rejection of God's Plan for Salvation results in disease (such as leprosy), ill health more generally (such as plague) and earthquake (with chasms and dead children galore). Your continuing health, Mr Jones, depends upon effective prayer and should you become infected we will know that you have erred regarding the incense of your prayers. And we will be right to shun you.