Secular scientists changing minds...again...

[Steph Leia]

http://phys.org/news/2014-06-physici...r-thought.html

Secular scientists just can't stick to one idea, can they?

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: Secular scientists changing minds...again...

http://phys.org/news/2014-06-physici...r-thought.html

Secular scientists just can't stick to one idea, can they?

Amen to that. You see, God never changes, nor do His Truths(c). The scientifical monkey-worshipers change their "facts" every day.

I've been keeping track of their lies HERE.

[Steph Leia]

Re: Secular scientists changing minds...again...

You know what would be so much easier, pastor? Having one truth that is 100% accurate and never needs to be changed, for it is perfect. Oh wait... Don't we already have that? If only the secular scientists would learn to accept the truth of the bible.



PRAISE

[TheLittleBoy]

Re: Secular scientists changing minds...again...

You know what would be so much easier, pastor? Having one truth that is 100% accurate and never needs to be changed, for it is perfect. Oh wait... Don't we already have that? If only the secular scientists would learn to accept the truth of the bible.



PRAISE

Too bad secular scientists needs actual empirical evidences.

[Steph Leia]

Re: Secular scientists changing minds...again...

Too bad secular scientists needs actual empirical evidences.

We have all the evidence we need. It's called the bible.

[TheLittleBoy]

Re: Secular scientists changing minds...again...

We have all the evidence we need. It's called the bible.

There is no empirical evidences that suggest that a god exists. Nor is there any proof that some bronze age peasants didn't make that bible and cult to get your tithe money.

[Didymus Much]

Re: Secular scientists changing minds...again...

There is no empirical evidences that suggest that a god exists...

Someone prays for something to happen. It happens. That's empirical evidence right there, however much you want to disagree with the meaning of the word.

[TheLittleBoy]

Re: Secular scientists changing minds...again...

Someone prays for something to happen. It happens. That's empirical evidence right there, however much you want to disagree with the meaning of the word.

Alright, where your studies showing empirical evidences suggesting that praying makes something happen?

None?

Oh well. Now that you're talking prayers, lets see talk about some studies from Harvard.

Between the years 1997-2005 there was a very interesting experiment conducted at Harvard, trying to statistically probe the Therapeutic Effects of Intercessory Prayer in Cardiac Bypass Patients.

Cardiologist Prof. Herbert Benson and his colleagues randomly assigned over 1800 cardiac bypass patients to one of three conditions:
Group 1: those told they may or may not be prayed for (and who weren't) - 604 patients
Group 2: those told they may or may not be prayed for (and who were) - 601 patients
Group 3: those told they would be prayed for (and who were) - 604 patients

Experiment:
The experiment cost over 2.0$ million, involving 6 medical centers, 6 different Christian congregations, signed approval of participants and a medical team which was not involved in the secret maintained neutral to the end result.

Prayers:
The members of the 2 prayed-for groups were prayed by members of 6 different congregations and/or family members. The prayers were allowed to pray in their own manner, but they were instructed to include the following phrase in their prayers: “for a successful surgery with a quick, healthy recovery and no complications.” Prayers began the night before the surgery and continued daily for two weeks after. The researchers monitored the patients for 30 days after the operations.

Results:

In the two groups uncertain about receiving intercessory prayer, complications occurred
in 52% (315/604) of patients who received intercessory prayer versus 51% (304/597) of those
who did not (relative risk 1.02, 95% confidence interval^** 0.92-1.15). Complications occurred in
59% (352/601) of patients certain of receiving intercessory prayer compared with the 52%
(315/604) of those uncertain of receiving intercessory prayer (relative risk 1.14, 95% confidence
interval 1.02-1.28). Major events and 30-day mortality were similar across the 3 groups.

or, in short:
Group 1 : 52% complications.
Group 2 : 51% complications.
Group 3 : 59% complications.
52% is the common ratio in the overall population = reference value.

Conclusions:

Intercessory prayer itself had no effect on complication-free recovery from
CABG, but certainty of receiving intercessory prayer was associated with a higher incidence of
complications.

Or:
Not only did prayer not help the patients, those that were told they were being prayed for experienced more complications.
The reason is simple: being aware that people is praying for you and speaking about you with god just makes you more tense ---> being tense is bad for your heart.

My comment:
In the above analysis, it is assumed that god co-operated with the experiment and "behaved" like he always "behaves" as if there is no experiment

Sources:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16569567?

http://freethoughtpedia.com/wiki/Harvard_prayer_experiment

http://www.amazon.com/God-Experiment.../dp/1587680076 <---- how I learned about this, recommended book

http://www.dimaggio.org/Eye-Openers/prayer_does_not_work.htm

http://www.templeton.org/pdfs/press_...STEP_paper.pdf <---- the full scientific paper

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: Secular scientists changing minds...again...

tl;dr

Jesus answers the Prayers of those who TRULY believe, and those who have been washed in His blood. He doesn't answer the Prayers of atheists, witches, queers, catholics, liberals, and so on. The joo scientists who do those "prayer tests" always stack the deck with perverts and such, so of course their Prayers will go unanswered.

[Didymus Much]

Re: Secular scientists changing minds...again...

Alright, where your studies showing empirical evidences suggesting that praying makes something happen?...

You really have a problem with definitions, don't you?

If someone prays for something to happen, and it does, THAT IS EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE. PERIOD.

Likewise, if nothing happens, that is also empirical evidence.

Empirical means "coming from observation", as opposed to coming from theory.

empirical
[em-pir-i-kuh l] IPA Syllable
3 adjectives
adjective
1. derived from or guided by experience or experiment.
2. depending upon experience or observation alone, without using scientific method or theory, especially as in medicine.
3. provable or verifiable by experience or experiment.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/empirical

You don't like the empirical evidence? That's your problem.

It doesn't change the meaning of the word.

ps. Your studies will convince no one here, as none of the participants were True Christians™ (therefore they were sinners), and the Bible says that God doesn't answer the prayers of sinners.

[TheLittleBoy]

Re: Secular scientists changing minds...again...

You really have a problem with definitions, don't you?

If someone prays for something to happen, and it does, THAT IS EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE. PERIOD.

Likewise, if nothing happens, that is also empirical evidence.

Empirical means "coming from observation", as opposed to coming from theory.



You don't like the empirical evidence? That's your problem.

It doesn't change the meaning of the word.

ps. Your studies will convince no one here, as none of the participants were True Christians™ (therefore they were sinners), and the Bible says that God doesn't answer the prayers of sinners.

You're retarded.

In science, empirical evidence is required for a hypothesis to gain acceptance in the scientific community. Normally, this validation is achieved by the scientific method of hypothesis commitment, experimental design, peer review, adversarial review, reproduction of results, conference presentation and journal publication.

This requires rigorous communication of hypothesis (usually expressed in mathematics), experimental constraints and controls (expressed necessarily in terms of standard experimental apparatus), and a common understanding of measurement.







With your poor logic, If someone prays for something to happen, and it does but there's no scientific method to back it up, it has the same consistancy as flipping a coin and getting the desired result out of chance.

Let say I offer the task to prayerful people to cause some slight change in the world via the power of prayer, such as tipping a pen off their desk. Religionists might respond that such tasks are beneath the dignity of their gods, so as to avoid the inevitable loss of face at being unable to do so.

There have been attempts to carry out double-blind experiments to prove the value of prayer most notably by the Templeton Foundation.

Not surprisingly, these have shown that prayer has no noticeable effect.

Indeed, in the study quoted, prayer had a small negative effect on the health of the patients prayed for.

However, medical studies have shown that for individuals, time spent in prayer can lower stress and therefore effect stress related illness. This is not due to god's interventions, however, but the secretion of particular hormones during moments of heightened focus such as meditation, solo prayer, and yoga.

Prayer also has the illusory benefit of feeling as if you are doing something, when there is nothing else you can do for a situation.



Every time a Pope falls ill and ends up on his deathbed, we may assume that the one billion catholics in the world all pray for his recovery. Despite this enormous effort of prayer, 100% of Popes eventually die.

[Didymus Much]

Re: Secular scientists changing minds...again...

You're retarded...

Says the guy who will not accept the DICTIONARY DEFINITION of a word because it doesn't fit his uneducated world-view.

...Every time a Pope falls ill and ends up on his deathbed, we may assume that the one billion catholics in the world all pray for his recovery...

Worthless prayers. Catholics are not Christians, therefore they have not had their sins washed from them by the Blood of Christ (like the True Christians™ have), therefore they are sinners, and God does not answer the prayers of sinners.

All territory that we have covered before.

...Despite this enormous effort of prayer, 100% of Popes eventually die.

Aaaaaand, guess what the Bible says? It says EVERYONE DIES EVENTUALLY.

If a Pope managed to never die somehow, THAT would disprove the Bible.

So get on it.

[TheLittleBoy]

Re: Secular scientists changing minds...again...

Says the guy who will not accept the DICTIONARY DEFINITION of a word because it doesn't fit his uneducated world-view.



Worthless prayers. Catholics are not Christians, therefore they have not had their sins washed from them by the Blood of Christ (like the True Christians™ have), therefore they are sinners, and God does not answer the prayers of sinners.

All territory that we have covered before.



Aaaaaand, guess what the Bible says? It says EVERYONE DIES EVENTUALLY.

If a Pope managed to never die somehow, THAT would disprove the Bible.

So get on it.

Like I said, you're retarded, learn what it mean in the context of science.

I knew you would say '' BUT ONLY BAPTIST TRUE CHRISTIAN PRAYERS WORKS!!!!111'' Guess what, many other religions believed that their prayers were answered too, but it doesn't mean that it was caused by a fairy tale sky wizard. But stangely, religiontards mind, including yours, works like this when faced with flipping coin prayers:



Meanwhile, no amount of prayers you'll ever do will make that sky wizard slap my face right now. No amount of prayers will make your imaginary sky dweller land on earth to shows he's real, no prayers will repeat the miracles that jesus did ( healing the blind with a hand wave ).

Give me one scientific evidence that God exists and I will believe.

[Zechariah Smyth]

Re: Secular scientists changing minds...again...

Awww, the widdle Jesus-haters are at it again.

Saucers of milk all around!

[Steph Leia]

Re: Secular scientists changing minds...again...

Like I said, you're retarded, learn what it mean in the context of science.

I knew you would say '' BUT ONLY BAPTIST TRUE CHRISTIAN PRAYERS WORKS!!!!111'' Guess what, many other religions believed that their prayers were answered too, but it doesn't mean that it was caused by a fairy tale sky wizard. But stangely, religiontards mind, including yours, works like this when faced with flipping coin prayers:



Meanwhile, no amount of prayers you'll ever do will make that sky wizard slap my face right now. No amount of prayers will make your imaginary sky dweller land on earth to shows he's real, no prayers will repeat the miracles that jesus did ( healing the blind with a hand wave ).

Give me one scientific evidence that God exists and I will believe.

Fun fact:
I did not create this thread so disbelievers who like masturbating to the videos of a guy who uses God's name in vain could come and call everyone here retards. As Pastor Ezekial would say, we are right and you are wrong according to the holy word of god. If you disagree, please do so either in the privacy of your own mind, or use scripture, which is the ONLY thing accepted as truth, to back up your claim.

P.S. Even if something happens by chance, it is still technically empirical evidence. I disagree with Mr Much on many things, but in this case, he is right.

YIC
Stephanie